Yahoo rumor: Wolves shopping Jefferson

EatMoreChicken

EatMoreChicken

G-League
#31
#31
Just for fun, here's a three way btwn Sac/Rap/Min
LINK

Sac out:
Martin
Thomas
Rodriquez

Sac In:
Bosh
Jarret Jack or Evans or Banks
Sessions

Minnesota In:
Martin
Thomas

Minnesota Out:
Jefferson
Sessions
Gomes

Toronto In:
Rodriquez
Jefferson
Gomes (non-guaranteed after this year)

Toronto Out:
Bosh
Jack or Evans or Banks
 
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Gary

Gary

All-Star
#32
#32
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
This is a tough one, my heart says yes. I saw him 'grow up' in Boston and was a little sad to see him go, hes a great guy. My one big issue with him is his defense. He truly is the Kmart of big men. Even Thompson is a better defender ( If you discount Thompsons foul issues ). Another way to put it is that he is Zach Randolph that isnt crazy.

He's a dynamic inside scorer. He has Hawes like post moves and isnt afraid to use them. That being said, his knee injurys scare me, a lot. There is a reason the Wolves are open to dealing him, they realize you cant have two bad defensive big men that are undersized in the game at the same time. We trade for Jefferson and thats exactly what we'll have.

Is he more injury prone than Kmart? probly not. Kmart gets hurt all the time, but its little stuff .. Jefferson has been hurt a few times but badly. Which is worse? i dont know.

I guess my final verdict is that if the deal is Kmart + something useless than yea, go for it. But if were expected to part with something useful in addition to Martin I say no. The most I give them is Martin and Hawes, and even then I want a little something back ... maybe the option to trade first round picks.
Click to expand...
Or an Eddy Curry that can rebound? :) That's who he reminds me of.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

All-Star
#33
#33
Bottom line is when we become a playoff team we will need someone that can score down low. Whether that's Hawes or someone else we really don't know at this point. Even in the glory days the only guy that could score on the post was Divac. Then against the spurs we were only competitive because of Shareef.

Reke
Casspi
Greene
Big AL
Hawes

that would be a pretty nice mix. 2 great defenders, 1 shooter, 2 inside scorers. I like it.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#34
#34
MassachusettsKingsFan said:
This is a tough one, my heart says yes. I saw him 'grow up' in Boston and was a little sad to see him go, hes a great guy. My one big issue with him is his defense. He truly is the Kmart of big men. Even Thompson is a better defender ( If you discount Thompsons foul issues ). Another way to put it is that he is Zach Randolph that isnt crazy.

He's a dynamic inside scorer. He has Hawes like post moves and isnt afraid to use them. That being said, his knee injurys scare me, a lot. There is a reason the Wolves are open to dealing him, they realize you cant have two bad defensive big men that are undersized in the game at the same time. We trade for Jefferson and thats exactly what we'll have.

Is he more injury prone than Kmart? probly not. Kmart gets hurt all the time, but its little stuff .. Jefferson has been hurt a few times but badly. Which is worse? i dont know.

I guess my final verdict is that if the deal is Kmart + something useless than yea, go for it. But if were expected to part with something useful in addition to Martin I say no. The most I give them is Martin and Hawes, and even then I want a little something back ... maybe the option to trade first round picks.
Click to expand...
I think the proper way to put this is that Hawes has Jefferson-like post moves, not Jefferson has Hawes-like post moves :eek:. Jefferson is probably the best low post scorer in the game, #2 at worst maybe behind Pau.
 
MassachusettsKingsFan

MassachusettsKingsFan

All-Star
#35
#35
SacKings7 said:
I think the proper way to put this is that Hawes has Jefferson-like post moves, not Jefferson has Hawes-like post moves :eek:. Jefferson is probably the best low post scorer in the game, #2 at worst maybe behind Pau.
Click to expand...
Your probly right, I just made that comparison because Hawes is a King. Hawes does have really good post moves though. He just gets too scared to use them. That and we rarely give him the ball in the post anyways.
 
K

K F Jay

G-League
#36
#36
Trade
JT
KT
Noc
Udoka
Sergio
May
Potected 1st pick

For
Al Jefferson
Okafor/ If we can't get Okafor for whatever reasons get a defensive big. He doesnt have to be young or a star just a solid role player.

PF Al Jefferson/Brockman
C Okafor/Hawes

or

PF Al Jefferson/Brockman
C Hawes/Defensive big

If we can do this I would be happy.
 
rainmaker

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#37
#37
I would love to add big Al to our lineup. I proposed a trade to acquire him before, but everyne seems to be a little more posotive about it this time around. My biggest concern is that neither is a defensive force. Bosh obviously gets the nod offensively, but he also has a larger contract, and I doubt we would be able to resign him. Al wouldn't recquire as many shots, and I think is a better low post scorer than bosh, although bosh is much more versatile.

I would rather hve Bosh, but Al is much more realistic. I would like Okafor, but it doesn't seem NO will move him, and I would take Al over Dalembert every day of the week. If we could throw out a lineup of Tyreke, Donte(assuming we give Kev up to acquire Al), Omri, JT, and Al, with Spencer coming off the bench, thats a very promising young lineup. Then get a defensive-minded big this offseason through free agency, and suddenly the playoffs look that much more likely.
 
M

Merdiesel

Starter
#38
#38
Before Boston traded him... Jefferson was viewed as an untouchable franchise big man.
After watching him a bit in Minny, I'm not so sure hes worth all that much.
Dude can score like crazy and is a pretty good rebounder, but he can't pass and his defense kinda sucks. I don't know, I'd rather wait it out and see if we can land Bosh.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#39
#39
He's definitely not an untouchable franchise big man, but he doesn't suck if the price is right. I'd rather have Bosh but Bosh will cost us a lot more, likely JT or Hawes would need to be included in any deal and so we'd still have to go find another big.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#40
#40
pdxKingsFan said:
He's definitely not an untouchable franchise big man, but he doesn't suck if the price is right. I'd rather have Bosh but Bosh will cost us a lot more, likely JT or Hawes would need to be included in any deal and so we'd still have to go find another big.
Click to expand...

Hilton Armstrong.
 
T

timmytrio43

Prospect
#42
#42
This trade works...and i mite consider it

Sac trades: Kevin Martin , Jason Thompson, Donte Greene and a 1st rd pick to Minnesota for Al Jefferson and rights to Ricky Rubio is it fair on a talent level?
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#44
#44
No, that's just crazy. Donte has the most potential after Evans of anyone on our roster. And we don't know if Rubio will ever show up, but it won't be for years while Donte is playing his butt off right now.

Kevin for Al works according to those that have tried. If we need to sweeten it throw in Hawes. Anything else is too much.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#46
#46
Čarolija said:
And you still take him over Kevin Martin. Big always is better than small.

Al is a good offensive PF and arguably the best low post PF in the game but he does have defensive deficiencies thats why we would still need to make a move for a defensive C.
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I would rather have Martin. Poor defending shooting guards are easier to conceal than defensively poor bigmen. The center is the anchor of the defense. You cant be a good defensive team without a defensive bigman.
 
Double-K

Double-K

Starter
#48
#48
Chupacabra said:
I would rather have Martin. Poor defending shooting guards are easier to conceal than defensively poor bigmen. The center is the anchor of the defense. You cant be a good defensive team without a defensive bigman.
Click to expand...
Well, the problem here is, we have a poor defending SG AND poor defending bigmen. If we trade our poor defending SG for a poor defending C, we'll fill our poor defending SG spot with our own better defending SGs.

Besides, when both are equally poor, I'd take the big man over a SG which's arguably the easiest role to replace.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#49
#49
Chupacabra said:
I would rather have Martin. Poor defending shooting guards are easier to conceal than defensively poor bigmen. The center is the anchor of the defense. You cant be a good defensive team without a defensive bigman.
Click to expand...
But you also look at opportunity cost in lost minutes for other players. Since Al would be playing PF we can still make a move for a defensive center. If they were that easy to find everyone would have one. Al is still an upgrade over what we have right now, though not as big as Bosh would potentially be.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#50
#50
Chupacabra said:
I would rather have Martin. Poor defending shooting guards are easier to conceal than defensively poor bigmen. The center is the anchor of the defense. You cant be a good defensive team without a defensive bigman.
Click to expand...
On the other hand good rebounding big men trump non-anything but score SGs, and good post play has always been a component of top teams. Throw in our bevy of shooting/contributing little players (Cisco, Beno, Donte, Casspi at the very least, Noc, Udoka and Sergio on many nights), and this is fairly clear. Jefferson is not my first choice, but he fits basically all of the markers except defense. And you just don't get many chances to nab a young big who can put up 20-10 in this league. You pass on Jefferson waiting for...who exactly? Hakeem to drop down form the sky? You might get a legitimate shot at one of these guys once or twice in a decade. Even Kobe never won without Shaq or Pau. Wade won his title with Shaq as well.

A couple of years back before the Lakers got him there were some suggestions on here that we trade Kevin to get Pau (of course as it turns out all it would have taken was some belly button lint and a 2027 2nd rounder). I was only lukewarm to the idea. Viewed them as roughly equivalent players, wth Pau getting the edge for being a big and playing the post. Both were soft. And swapping one for the other wasn't going to magically lift us anywhere. But times have changed, dramatically. Now if that same trade was avaialble, I'm all over it, for exactly the reasons you're seeing down in L.A. with the Kobe/Pau pairing. Now we have the stud perimeter guy. If there is a chance to create the classic inside/outside pairing that has won in the NBA pretty much as long as there has been an NBA, you go do it. Bosh is my #1 choice. But if he's not available Jefferson is right there as a very acceptable alternative. Superstar little. 20-10 big. Bunch of shooters and scrappers at the 2/3. Its nearly perfect. Just need a defensive minded 5 and you're ready.

These are Jefferson's numbers last season before the injury:
23.1pts (.497 FG% .000 3pt% .738 FT%) 11.0reb 1.6ast 0.8stl 1.7blk 1.8TO

Who does that? He might not be all the way back to that yet, but he's getting stronger every month. In December it was 18.7 and 10.3, this month so far its 20.3 and 10.8. Legitimately one of the league's 4 or 5 20-10 guys. And if you can get him for nothing much more than Kevin, you are basically adding a 20-10 guy, for free, to the team we've been watching these last few months. Keeping everything that has had us right in the running with the league's better teams, and then dropping a 20-10 guy in on top of it? Yes please.
 
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NoBonus

NoBonus

Starter
#53
#53
timmytrio43 said:
This trade works...and i mite consider it

Sac trades: Kevin Martin , Jason Thompson, Donte Greene and a 1st rd pick to Minnesota for Al Jefferson and rights to Ricky Rubio is it fair on a talent level?
Click to expand...
Wow, that is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard... Seriously. Maybe two of those players for Jefferson, but who wants or needs Rubio?
 
NoBonus

NoBonus

Starter
#54
#54
KMart and HA! (my new nickname for Hilton Armstrong) works:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5379745

KMart for Al works:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5379752

K9 and HA! for AL works:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5379757

K9 and Hawes works:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5379760

Noc, HA!, and Hawes works:
http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5379765

There are lots of options with Al Jefferson.

Also, realgm.com trade checker > bspn trade machine
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#55
#55
Chupacabra said:
I would rather have Martin. Poor defending shooting guards are easier to conceal than defensively poor bigmen. The center is the anchor of the defense. You cant be a good defensive team without a defensive bigman.
Click to expand...
Except that Al is not a C, he is a PF. Just because he is getting played out of position at Minny doesn't make him a C.

As a PF he is a decent defender. He will never be a All-Defensive type player but regardless of their defensive deficiencies, you always take big over small. Its much harder to find a 20/10 PF than it is to find a 23-25ppg SG.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#56
#56
Bricklayer said:
On the other hand good rebounding big men trump non-anything but score SGs, and good post play has always been a component of top teams. Throw in our bevy of shooting/contributing little players (Cisco, Beno, Donte, Casspi at the very least, Noc, Udoka and Sergio on many nights), and this is fairly clear. Jefferson is not my first choice, but he fits basically all of the markers except defense. And you just don't get many chances to nab a young big who can put up 20-10 in this league. You pass on Jefferson waiting for...who exactly? Hakeem to drop down form the sky? You might get a legitimate shot at one of these guys once or twice in a decade. Even Kobe never won without Shaq or Pau. Wade won his title with Shaq as well.

A couple of years back before the Lakers got him there were some suggestions on here that we trade Kevin to get Pau (of course as it turns out all it would have taken was some belly button lint and a 2027 2nd rounder). I was only lukewarm to the idea. Viewed them as roughly equivalent players, wth Pau getting the edge for being a big and playing the post. Both were soft. And swapping one for the other wasn't going to magically lift us anywhere. But times have changed, dramatically. Now if that same trade was avaialble, I'm all over it, for exactly the reasons you're seeing down in L.A. with the Kobe/Pau pairing. Now we have the stud perimeter guy. If there is a chance to create the classic inside/outside pairing that has won in the NBA pretty much as long as there has been an NBA, you go do it. Bosh is my #1 choice. But if he's not available Jefferson is right there as a very acceptable alternative. Superstar little. 20-10 big. Bunch of shooters and scrappers at the 2/3. Its nearly perfect. Just need a defensive minded 5 and you're ready.

These are Jefferson's numbers last season before the injury:
23.1pts (.497 FG% .000 3pt% .738 FT%) 11.0reb 1.6ast 0.8stl 1.7blk 1.8TO

Who does that? He might not be all the way back to that yet, but he's getting stronger every month. In December it was 18.7 and 10.3, this month so far its 20.3 and 10.8. Legitimately one of the league's 4 or 5 20-10 guys. And if you can get him for nothing much more than Kevin, you are basically adding a 20-10 guy, for free, to the team we've been watching these last few months. Keeping everything that has had us right in the running with the league's better teams, and then dropping a 20-10 guy in on top of it? Yes please.
Click to expand...
Exactly!!!

The other day when the news of Jefferson for Granger offer made the public arena, someone mentioned to me (T-wolves fan) that since coming to Minny is 2007, Big Al has had 71 games where he had at least 20 points and 10 rebounds. The only players who have had more 20/10 games in that period are Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan.

Thats a pretty interesting stat. He is a legitimate 20/10 guy.
 
SacTownGrantFan

SacTownGrantFan

Bench
#57
#57
So the factor of rebounding would be much improved on the Kings as well. With Jefferson to add to our good rebounders of Brockman, Evans, JT, even Casspi...the extra possessions would be nice.

Also, I may be wrong here, but I think an important crack in our defense shows up when opposing big men crash the boards in a rebounding frenzy, and end up with easy tip-ins or kick-outs. It is frustrating when teams can throw up three or four shots in a row next to the basket. I think Jefferson would help clear up this problem.

A Kevin for Jefferson trade I would do in a second.
 
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Aenadin

Aenadin

Starter
#60
#60
timmytrio43 said:
This trade works...and i mite consider it

Sac trades: Kevin Martin , Jason Thompson, Donte Greene and a 1st rd pick to Minnesota for Al Jefferson and rights to Ricky Rubio is it fair on a talent level?
Click to expand...
kmart, jt. conditional first round pick (top 10 protected)

for

Jefferson
Ricky Rubio
 
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