The beginning - the never-ending question...point guard or two guard?

[Gary]

Evans was guarded by Salmons all last game and Salmons couldn't stop him. Salmons, he of the playing Kobe to a draw Salmons. So what would lead you to believe that Evans would NEED any type of advantage to be effective? Because of who he IS, he ALREADY has advantages as soon as he steps on the court.

Salmons couldn't stop him? He may have scored 20 or whatever but Salmons did a good job against Evans from what I saw. He disrupted his game on numerous occasions and just didn't let him get into a groove. Stat wise just looking at it you would say Evans had a good game, but watching it I would have said that he was troubled.

Which isn't a huge deal because a BIG part of the NBA game is learning how to play against specific players, and as a rookie it's the first time he's playing against those players.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Salmons couldn't stop him? He may have scored 20 or whatever but Salmons did a good job against Evans from what I saw. He disrupted his game on numerous occasions and just didn't let him get into a groove. Stat wise just looking at it you would say Evans had a good game, but watching it I would have said that he was troubled.

Which isn't a huge deal because a BIG part of the NBA game is learning how to play against specific players, and as a rookie it's the first time he's playing against those players.

He did a good job against him but the underlying factor is Evans stopped himself, not Salmons. Salmons couldn't keep Evans out the lane, and a few occassions Evans hed Salmons stumbling to keep up. For a rookie in less than 10 games in, thats pretty damn impressive. So no, Salmons couldn't stop him, temporarily contain him he did, but stop? No.

 

[ParniValjak]

1) i never said anything negative about evans, im a huge lebron fan and i knew that he wouldnt be a pg. i knew that he would be a great player as long as he didnt get injured. which was one of the things that kept tmac and vince carter from becoming top tier franchise players like kobe and now lebron.

2) i was merely responding to a post and made a vaild point. in order to have evans in position to have an advantage against pgs he will need a player better than he is to leave the opposing teams pg on evans. no pg can guard him, but they can all guard beno... they will be able to guard every pg we put next to evans not named chris paul or deron williams. we would need another evans or a sg like joe johnson or brandon roy who can split the ball handling duties. it wasnt an attack on evans just an observation. if you(or anyone) can think of another way to keep the opposing pg on evans i would love to hear it. because with the way this team is set up an opposing pg will never have to guard evans unless martin is in the game with him. which means that evans will be the only ballhandler/distributer on the court for us. last time i checked, both roy and johnson were better than evans... so how is my post silly? outside of the tyreke 2.0...





and you're right... i didnt start anything.

We don't need another player like Evans. We need a player with size that complements Evans.

You pair Evans with someone like Garcia or Rudy Fernandez and you create mismatches. None of them are better than Tyreke but what they do bring to the backcourt is size, ballhandling and shooting ability. Something Tyreke needs around him. Its something every superstar needs around them. LeBron, Wade, Kobe etc they all have complementary role player that takes the load off them in those areas.

Garcia and Rudy would both bring some ballhandling to help Tyreke out. They are both good shooters and play solid defence and both are 6'5 +. If Martin could actually handle the ball and play some solid D, this wouldn't even be an issue. Hell you could even have Martin and Evans as your backcourt as long as you have a ball handler and a solid shooter at SF, say a Hedo type SF.

This talk that we need another Tyreke to make Tyreke effective is just a dribbling bull****

 

[ParniValjak]

Salmons couldn't stop him? He may have scored 20 or whatever but Salmons did a good job against Evans from what I saw. He disrupted his game on numerous occasions and just didn't let him get into a groove. Stat wise just looking at it you would say Evans had a good game, but watching it I would have said that he was troubled.

Which isn't a huge deal because a BIG part of the NBA game is learning how to play against specific players, and as a rookie it's the first time he's playing against those players.

And despite the fact that Salmons (who is a very good defender) troubled Reke, he still put up a 20/4/4/2st/3blk game which in itself is a MASSIVE plus for us. If a rookie is troubled by one of the better perimeter defenders in the league and he still puts up 20/4/4/2st/3blk I think you are on a winner with that rookie.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

and the point that i was trying to make is that wont happen unless the player is a bigger offensive threat than evans. if you put a christie type of player next to evans the opposing pg would just guard him and not evans. you would need a legit scoring threat next to him to force the opposing teams hand and put a pg on evans. like when martin was healthy but then we lose the ball movement that we would have with a pg next to evans...

Well, we are in agreement that teams won't just blindly match up a PG against Evans. However, as someone else already responded, it really doesn't matter if they don't:

1 - The bigger guard would now have a mismatch. Imagine a 6-1 guard on Doug Christie. Doug could post him up, shoot over him with ease, pass over him easily. Or as someone mentioned a "good" Bonzi Wells. Imagine if the Lakers put Fisher on Bonzi so that Kobe could guard Reke. Bonzi would score in the post at will. It's a pick your poison situation.

2 - Evans could still score on the better defender. It's not like his O would dissapear, teams would just be conceding that they would be allowing another big mismatch.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

And despite the fact that Salmons (who is a very good defender) troubled Reke, he still put up a 20/4/4/2st/3blk game which in itself is a MASSIVE plus for us. If a rookie is troubled by one of the better perimeter defenders in the league and he still puts up 20/4/4/2st/3blk I think you are on a winner with that rookie.

That we did. Funny too, as bad as this draft was supposed to be, it is looking like a great draft for PGs. Evans and Jennings both look like they may have superstar potential. Flynn and Curry both look very sharp despite being in less advantageous situations (Flynn in the triangle and Curry just getting minutes now). Lawson looks like a legit NBA starter. Even Maynor and Teague have shown flashes. I am excited to watch these guys grow and compete over the next decade.

 

[AriesMar27]

Well, we are in agreement that teams won't just blindly match up a PG against Evans. However, as someone else already responded, it really doesn't matter if they don't:

1 - The bigger guard would now have a mismatch. Imagine a 6-1 guard on Doug Christie. Doug could post him up, shoot over him with ease, pass over him easily. Or as someone mentioned a "good" Bonzi Wells. Imagine if the Lakers put Fisher on Bonzi so that Kobe could guard Reke. Bonzi would score in the post at will. It's a pick your poison situation.

2 - Evans could still score on the better defender. It's not like his O would dissapear, teams would just be conceding that they would be allowing another big mismatch.

do you remember Christie? When we were a good team opposing teams would put their sg on Bibby and their pg on Doug. The lakers did it in 2002 and the twolves did it in 2004. He never dominated the opposing pgs.

Doug was a great glue guy but he was part of the reason why we couldn't win it all. When he was put in the position to dominate he failed miserably. Remember 2003 when webber went down, he put his tail in between his legs. How many airballs did he shoot in those glory years? He and peja were bigger chokers than webber could ever be accused of being.

Though a Christie type of player would be nice to have with Evans, there aren't anymore of those type of guys in the NBA. Garcia is not that player, King's fans are the only ones who seem to think that he is that player. Players that fit that mold and can score are called stars or in some cases superstars. You can't start Garcia at sf and expect to win many games, like Martin he is too small to defend players like lebron, artest or carmello.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

do you remember Christie? When we were a good team opposing teams would put their sg on Bibby and their pg on Doug. The lakers did it in 2002 and the twolves did it in 2004. He never dominated the opposing pgs.

Doug was a great glue guy but he was part of the reason why we couldn't win it all. When he was put in the position to dominate he failed miserably. Remember 2003 when webber went down, he put his tail in between his legs. How many airballs did he shoot in those glory years? He and peja were bigger chokers than webber could ever be accused of being.

Though a Christie type of player would be nice to have with Evans, there aren't anymore of those type of guys in the NBA. Garcia is not that player, King's fans are the only ones who seem to think that he is that player. Players that fit that mold and can score are called stars or in some cases superstars. You can't start Garcia at sf and expect to win many games, like Martin he is too small to defend players like lebron, artest or carmello.

I remember Christie a little differently than you. Yes, in Game 7 against the Lakers Christie choked and admitted as much. However, he also had carried us in the clinching game against the Mavs after injuring his ankle, he played well against the Lakers and he did not choke after Webber went down, shoot he was hitting big 3 after big 3 in that Game 7. He actually shot.394 on his threes for the playoffs.

Although, it is all about matchups and Fisher was actually better at guarding big guards than fast ones, so against the Lakers we would put in BJax a lot so the Lakers could not hide Fish.

 

[AriesMar27]

Maybe, but what he did at the end of the game is what mattered the most... He missed, and missed... Playing well for 3 quarters isn't enough. The same could be said of peja and Martin now....

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Maybe, but what he did at the end of the game is what mattered the most... He missed, and missed... Playing well for 3 quarters isn't enough. The same could be said of peja and Martin now....

Other than one Game 7 against the Lakers are you referring to? Christie carried us the series before after hurting himself in the 4th quarter and OT. In Game 7 he hit several 4th quarter 3s to keep us in the game. I just don't agree that Christie wasn't clutch. Are there other instances of Christie choking that you are remembering that I am not?

 

[Bricklayer]

He did a good job against him but the underlying factor is Evans stopped himself, not Salmons. Salmons couldn't keep Evans out the lane, and a few occassions Evans hed Salmons stumbling to keep up. For a rookie in less than 10 games in, thats pretty damn impressive. So no, Salmons couldn't stop him, temporarily contain him he did, but stop? No.

Not sure I agree with tnat -- I thought Salmons really could keep him out of the lane...which is why Reke backed off and started using screens to get the extra step.

But the fact that Salmons was able to bother him and he still scored 20pts is actually another sign of how good he is. When you're having a struggle and you stlll find a way to get score 20pts, you;re a star.

As you are if a team as good as Dallas electes to start doubling teaming you and trappinhg you as soon as you cross the halfcourt line to get the ball out of your hands.

 

[Gary]

And despite the fact that Salmons (who is a very good defender) troubled Reke, he still put up a 20/4/4/2st/3blk game which in itself is a MASSIVE plus for us. If a rookie is troubled by one of the better perimeter defenders in the league and he still puts up 20/4/4/2st/3blk I think you are on a winner with that rookie.

Which is the reason I said it didn't matter... He will learn how to play against specific players and know how to get under their skin and abuse them. I'm not worried at all.

 

[Gary]

I think at this point in the thread we can all agree that it does not matter who brings the ball up the court as long as Evans is the main focal point of the offense. SG, or PG the kid should be special.

/thread

 

[NewArena]

Gary...just to see you type those words after how u felt during the summer, makes me a happy and rather surprised as hell kinda guy.

 

[VF21]

I think at this point in the thread we can all agree that it does not matter who brings the ball up the court as long as Evans is the main focal point of the offense. SG, or PG the kid should be special.

/thread

And that, fellow Kings fans, is something pretty much everyone with a pulse should be able to agree with.

GO KINGS!!!

 

[fnordius]

Not sure I agree with tnat -- I thought Salmons really could keep him out of the lane...which is why Reke backed off and started using screens to get the extra step.

But the fact that Salmons was able to bother him and he still scored 20pts is actually another sign of how good he is.

I was really looking forward to seeing how that matchup would go, since Evans and Salmons have a lot of similarities. (I wasn't about to announce that beforehand, as some people would probably think I was attacking Evans by saying that, and get all riled.) The fact that rookie Evans looked about even in that matchup should be very encouraging to Kings fans.

 

[Kingsguy881]

do you remember Christie? When we were a good team opposing teams would put their sg on Bibby and their pg on Doug. The lakers did it in 2002 and the twolves did it in 2004. He never dominated the opposing pgs.

Doug was a great glue guy but he was part of the reason why we couldn't win it all. When he was put in the position to dominate he failed miserably. Remember 2003 when webber went down, he put his tail in between his legs. How many airballs did he shoot in those glory years? He and peja were bigger chokers than webber could ever be accused of being.

Though a Christie type of player would be nice to have with Evans, there aren't anymore of those type of guys in the NBA. Garcia is not that player, King's fans are the only ones who seem to think that he is that player. Players that fit that mold and can score are called stars or in some cases superstars. You can't start Garcia at sf and expect to win many games, like Martin he is too small to defend players like lebron, artest or carmello.

And teams could do that and have success in doing so because Bibby would effectively get shut down by the sg. But not so with Tyreke. Who in the league is going to completely take Reke out the game? Not even Artest, he's not fast enough laterally which is why Kobe used to manhandle Artest. You have to foul Reke to stop him. I love that guy. I'm surprised that there are still those that don't yet.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Not sure I agree with tnat -- I thought Salmons really could keep him out of the lane...which is why Reke backed off and started using screens to get the extra step.

But the fact that Salmons was able to bother him and he still scored 20pts is actually another sign of how good he is. When you're having a struggle and you stlll find a way to get score 20pts, you;re a star.

As you are if a team as good as Dallas electes to start doubling teaming you and trappinhg you as soon as you cross the halfcourt line to get the ball out of your hands.

Recognition, brother. He recognized that he had to attack a different way and was still successful. And he still got in the lane against Salmons, it wasn't seemingly at will like it has been but he was still effective at doing so.

Salmons did a fantastic job on Reke which goes to show that Vinny D had an excellent gameplan, had the man for the job, and they executed damn near flawlessly. But the amazing thing is that is what it took to beat the 'worst' team in the league with a rookie running the show, and at a very early point in his career to boot.

The sky's the limit. I hope we beat Houston tonite.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

The sky's the limit. I hope we beat Houston tonite.

Lol, either way it's nice to have everyone excited enough about the team's prospects that we are all cheering for the team to win and not debating tanking again this season. That right there might be the greatest gift Havoc and company have given us so far this year.

 

[Sparky6string]

That we did. Funny too, as bad as this draft was supposed to be, it is looking like a great draft for PGs. Evans and Jennings both look like they may have superstar potential. Flynn and Curry both look very sharp despite being in less advantageous situations (Flynn in the triangle and Curry just getting minutes now). Lawson looks like a legit NBA starter. Even Maynor and Teague have shown flashes. I am excited to watch these guys grow and compete over the next decade.

I feel exactly the same. This draft is actually very exciting because of the PGs that went, and they are proving to be a damn good crop too. Plus PGs have the ball a lot when they're on the floor so we get to see them in action quite a bit.

 

[AriesMar27]

And teams could do that and have success in doing so because Bibby would effectively get shut down by the sg. But not so with Tyreke. Who in the league is going to completely take Reke out the game? Not even Artest, he's not fast enough laterally which is why Kobe used to manhandle Artest. You have to foul Reke to stop him. I love that guy. I'm surprised that there are still those that don't yet.

i think you missed the point of my post. the point i was trying to make was that when teams put their sg on bibby they had their pg on doug and christie did not dominate them even though he had the size advantage. that post was talking about pairing a christie type player with evans. i was pointing out what happened when christie had the size advantage. not that a sg would shut evans down. keep in mind i see him as a sg myself. i wouldnt have a problem or see any disadvantages to him being guarded by someone his own size...