The beginning - the never-ending question...point guard or two guard?

[Kingster]

A Rose is a Rose By Any Other Name

Haven't you guys ever read Shakespear? Jeez, what do they teach kids these days?

JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

 

[Chupacabra]

Kingster aka "the ladies man". Classy stuff there.

 

[VF21]

Why is it so hard to understand? He starts as the point guard. He guards the opposing point guard. He plays within the offense as the point guard. How can that information say that Evans is a 2 guard? We have a strange phenomenon going on on this site. Fans who will absolutely refuse to accept that Evans is a point guard no matter what. These people will be talking about this for the next 10+years. Very strange.

At the risk of possibly alienating at least a couple of those people, I'll posit this:

People who truly wanted Rubio want affirmation that they were right. They aren't going to get it based on Evans performance alone, if last night is any indication, so they're going to look for the legal loophole. In this case it's something as benign as a word...one silly word. "Point" ...

If they need to grab onto that to save face for whatever reason, more power to them. Meanwhile the rest of us will just watch in awe and dream of what might be yet to come and not worry about silly things like whether the designation they use merely to make sure there are five players on the court is actually that relevant to the way the player performs once he's out there.

 

[6th]

At the risk of possibly alienating at least a couple of those people, I'll posit this:

People who truly wanted Rubio want affirmation that they were right. They aren't going to get it based on Evans performance alone, if last night is any indication, so they're going to look for the legal loophole. In this case it's something as benign as a word...one silly word. "Point" ...

If they need to grab onto that to save face for whatever reason, more power to them. Meanwhile the rest of us will just watch in awe and dream of what might be yet to come and not worry about silly things like whether the designation they use merely to make sure there are five players on the court is actually that relevant to the way the player performs once he's out there.

I'll 2nd that!!!!!

 

[M_Barragan]

The only thing I hope for is that he learns to play it well enough to make it happen. The mismatches it would create are a nightmare for to opposition. Would really speed up our rebuilding process.

 

[swisshh]

Ime Udoka has never facititated an offense in his life, normally plays SF, has a career 1.0 ast average, and just showed up in town yesterday after we signed him off the scrap heap. And now you have him running the point in his very first stint with the Kings? Your desperation to deny any possibility of Reke playing PG is leading you down some strange paths my friend.

Maybe you should have tagged Donte as the mystery PG during that stretch. Would have made at least as much sense.

I saw what I saw. It's more certain people's belief in a PR BS that deny it. I wasn't the only one who saw Udoka in the Christie-like role.

The main thing is that Tyreke was making plays out of scoring positions and not from starting from the top and pounding the ball into the ground the whole game. There are spots where Tyreke's abilities work within an offense and Udoka could work with those spots. Namely, he works best on the wing either posting or driving.

 

[kupman]

Kevin is NOT a SF. That is almost Nellyball talk.

You are correct, Kmart is not a SF. I have suggested a small line-up of Beno/sergio along with Evans and Kmart in the past which does look like Nellyball. It could be fun to watch and it gets our best players on the court at the same time.

However, I also do worry that there would not be enough balls to go around. This leaves me still intrigued by the idea of trading Kmart. Kmart + an expiring K-9 could get the attention of other teams. I know this will probably never happen as our FO seems to be attached to Kmart.

With the arrival of Reke, it just seems that Kmart is our most tradable piece.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Throw Tyreke in at any guard position and players will have to adjust to Tyreke. Tyreke wont have to adjust to players.

What amazes me the most is his defense. he can keep smaller guards like D.Williams/Chris Paul in front of him. But he can also guard guys like Ronnie Brewer Or Stephen Jackson. His defensive ability is what makes him able to be such an effective guard.

 

[bajaden]

I believe Nellie has had wet dreams about it, actually



http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/2262580.html

Damm! And I thought it was my personal vison.

 

[bajaden]

.

So somebody can get their jollies by saying "I told you so"???

You mi amigo, have nailed it!

 

[bajaden]

Haven't you guys ever read Shakespear? Jeez, what do they teach kids these days?

JULIET:
'Tis but thy name that is my enemy;
Thou art thyself, though not a Montague.
What's Montague? it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man. O, be some other name!
What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;
So Romeo would, were he not Romeo call'd,
Retain that dear perfection which he owes
Without that title. Romeo, doff thy name,
And for that name which is no part of thee
Take all myself.

The quality of mercy is not strained
It dropeth from heaven like a gentle rain upon the earth

Opp's, I started to get carried away. Good stuff there Kingster....You can't skate anything by people on this fourm...

 

[bajaden]

I saw what I saw. It's more certain people's belief in a PR BS that deny it. I wasn't the only one who saw Udoka in the Christie-like role.

The main thing is that Tyreke was making plays out of scoring positions and not from starting from the top and pounding the ball into the ground the whole game. There are spots where Tyreke's abilities work within an offense and Udoka could work with those spots. Namely, he works best on the wing either posting or driving.

I'm too bored to argue this crap anymore. Its sufice to say that your wrong. Udoka looked like Christie when playing defense, and when shooting from a spot up position. He can neither handle the ball nor begin to pass the ball as well as Christie did. And, to his credit, nor did he try last night.

 

[bajaden]

Throw Tyreke in at any guard position and players will have to adjust to Tyreke. Tyreke wont have to adjust to players.

What amazes me the most is his defense. he can keep smaller guards like D.Williams/Chris Paul in front of him. But he can also guard guys like Ronnie Brewer Or Stephen Jackson. His defensive ability is what makes him able to be such an effective guard.

So far the only guard thats given him fits is Parker. It helps Parker that the Spur's have so many weapons, but you have to give him his due. He's very crafty as well as quick. Other than that, Evans has held his own fairly well for a rook. Once he gets to really know the players in the league he should get even better.

 

[Gary]

Did you watch the game? beno was the offguard. So to answer your question no hes not better as the off guard. hes better as the lead guard. the point guard.

Ugh... It was not close to 90% on PG duties that you had in the other thread.. It was a 50-50 split... Ans I have noticed that Evans played a lot better like a burden was lifted off his shoulders..

EDIT: After watching the game yes the ball was in Evans hands most of the game.. The same can go for Wade vs. Chalmers and so on.. But Evans did have a great night.

 

[VF21]

Ugh... It was not close to 90% on PG duties that you had in the other thread.. It was a 50-50 split... Ans I have noticed that Evans played a lot better like a burden was lifted off his shoulders..

EDIT: After watching the game yes the ball was in Evans hands most of the game.. The same can go for Wade vs. Chalmers and so on.. But Evans did have a great night.

Thanks, Gary. Major props and respect.

 

[Bricklayer]

The quality of mercy is not strained
It dropeth from heaven like a gentle rain upon the earth

Opp's, I started to get carried away. Good stuff there Kingster....You can't skate anything by people on this fourm...

No no no, you guys are using the wrong Shakespeare!:

 

[bajaden]

Ugh... It was not close to 90% on PG duties that you had in the other thread.. It was a 50-50 split... Ans I have noticed that Evans played a lot better like a burden was lifted off his shoulders..

EDIT: After watching the game yes the ball was in Evans hands most of the game.. The same can go for Wade vs. Chalmers and so on.. But Evans did have a great night.

I won't comment on the 90% since you edited it. I agree with you though that Evans looked very relaxed out there. I'm not sure at this point what I would attribute it to, but I'm willing to accept the idea that having another good ballhandler on the floor with him, whether that person handled the ball that much or not, helped him relax and just do his thing.

As they say, whatever works is fine with me. I would like to point out though that Evans played very well when in tandem with Udoka. They both seemed to feed off of each others defense. Ultimately its the win that counts. Or should count. How thats accomplished doesn't really matter that much, as long as you win, and you do it consistantly. Some teams win ugly, like the old Knicks under Riley and the old Pistons with Issiah. Or, some teams win pretty, like the old Kings or the, cough, cough, old Lakers under Magic.. But if you don't win, how you played really doesn't matter.

 

[6th]

Awesome picture, Brick.....really AWESOME!!

 

[VF21]

No no no, you guys are using the wrong Shakespeare!:

This truly deserves a better spot than buried this deep in a thread. Did you do this, Brickie? I'm impressed...

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Ugh... It was not close to 90% on PG duties that you had in the other thread.. It was a 50-50 split... Ans I have noticed that Evans played a lot better like a burden was lifted off his shoulders..

EDIT: After watching the game yes the ball was in Evans hands most of the game.. The same can go for Wade vs. Chalmers and so on.. But Evans did have a great night.

Yah your right it wasnt 90 % I was just prettty pumped after the gaame and overeaggerated that percentage a bit. I justt finished watchin it for my third time.. lol and it was prolly around 70% tyreke 30 % beno. Beno took over for the last 8 minutes of the game pretty much.
But yah it was a great game for tyreke and its nice to see that both him and beno can click on the court.

 

[Bricklayer]

This truly deserves a better spot than buried this deep in a thread. Did you do this, Brickie? I'm impressed...

If he kicks some butt again tonight I'll give it a better place of honor, Just came to me as so obvious given the nickname.

 

[VF21]

I copied it to the Art Studio.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I would like to point out though that Evans played very well when in tandem with Udoka. They both seemed to feed off of each others defense.

Yep that was the game changing run, when it was Evans at the point and Udoka at SG. They were playing the 2-3 zone perfectly and closing out on shooters beautifully. Hopefully we get too see a little more of that defensive pairing tonight. The 2-3 zone may not work too well tonight against the warriors tho since they have alot of deadly 3pt shooters. maybe we'll see some 3-2.

 

[Larry89]

Can't wait to see a Tyreke/garcia tandem

 

[bajaden]

If he kicks some butt again tonight I'll give it a better place of honor, Just came to me as so obvious given the nickname.

Seriously, that should be a billboard on interstate 80. Absolutely terriffic. I want the teeshirt rights. Hell, I just want a teeshirt..

 

[VF21]

Seriously, that should be a billboard on interstate 80. Absolutely terriffic. I want the teeshirt rights. Hell, I just want a teeshirt..

Actually there are a number of software programs out there that would convert the picture to a decal just perfect for putting on a shirt, if one were so inclined.

 

[mac]

How about this, no more mention of Evans not being a point guard and no more mention of Evans being better than Rubio. Truce?

I've never brought up Rubio personally but yes, truce. Please people, stop bringing up Rubio if you ever want people to support Evans. Make it about Evans, not about Rubio

 

[mac]

Why don't we have Kevin play Center and put Tyreke at the PF position. I think Thompson should be the point guard with his stellar passing ability and look at the post up problems he'd give the other teams point guard. Obviously Beno at the three and Sergio at the two. Hawes can be the backup at SF because of his great outside shooting and KT can back up the center position. I think this lineup has championship writen all over it..

If you'll excuse me I have to go make another Bloody Mary..

Haha bajaden you should be used to this by now. I believe a poster (fakeinjury) once suggested Lebron James play center and Spencer Hawes play PG or something along those lines

 

[Kingster]

This truly deserves a better spot than buried this deep in a thread. Did you do this, Brickie? I'm impressed...

I agree! AWESOME! This could the photo that starts the game-day thread. Really gets you fired up.

 

[fnordius]

For the "umteenth time" WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE what is his designation? Not one eeny, tiny bit. He is a guard in Westphals system. He scores, he rebounds, he dishes (tho' many of his dishes turn out to be misses), he makes the defense focus on him, helping everyone. This is the Coaches system, not a generic, papercutter style of 1-2-3-4-5 basketball. Convince me Westphals system IS NOT 2 guards, 2 forwards and a big in the middle rather than PG, SG, SF, PF and C and I'll keep quiet with "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?"

Absolutely true, and well said. In another thread, I pointed out that whoever was playing PG let Deron torch us for 29pts/15assists, and waited to see whether either side of the argument would admit that their favored choice for PG was to blame for that. (None did, of course.) But that was a trollish bluff on my part, because we played the Zone, and there was no one individual who was responsible. The positions were about as ambiguous at defense as at offense. Ambiguous enough that the press can't agree on what position he played, either; ESPN, for example: "Many have argued that Evans is really more of a shooting guard than a point guard anyway, and with Kevin Martin injured, Evans has moved to the two."

I'd add that, so far, my offseason worries about our A/TO ratio have NOT been borne out, because Westphal has been much more successful than I anticipated at carrying out his semi-Princetonian setup. In particular, I didn't expect JT to so quickly and easily pick up the role of being the big who the offense was often run through. I thought that if he was showing that sort of potential, Theus or even Natt would have done something about it. I was wrong. And even Kevin Martin has really improved his A/TO ratio, so far. Kudos to Westphal!

--------------------assists----to------a/to ratio-----assists/48
Evans--------------25--------14-------1.78-----------6.0
JT------------------24---------4--------6.00----------5.6
Beno---------------16---------8--------2.00----------6.3
Kevin--------------13---------7--------1.85----------3.0
Sergio--------------4----------2--------2.00----------6.6

I'd like to think that we could all enjoy seeing some signs of success from this new scheme, but I'm sure that the ego investments some posters have made in the PG/not-PG debate will ensure that that doesn't happen. So I'll just repeat your observation: WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?