Kings-Thunder post-game discussion

[Eclipse]

I agree Omri and Spencer should start and play most of the minutes in their respective positions. Omri because he deserves to, and Hawes, well because the alternative is May...

I hope Brockman plays more in future games. I liked the play where he charged his way to a slam dunk, and a hapless Thunder player in his path to the basket quickly moved out of the way in fear of being hospitalized. We need more of that physical & intimidating presence in the paint.

 

[BMiller52]

I agree Omri and Spencer should start and play most of the minutes in their respective positions. Omri because he deserves to, and Hawes, well because the alternative is May...

I hope Brockman plays more in future games. I liked the play where he charged his way to a slam dunk, and a hapless Thunder player in his path to the basket quickly moved out of the way in fear of being hospitalized. We need more of that physical & intimidating presence in the paint.

Yup, what about a Thompson-Brockman front court? That way we still have some size off the bench. The starting five really should be Evans/Martin/Casspi/Thompson/Hawes, with Sergio/Noch/Brockman coming off the bench. Then Brockman can come in when JT gets in foul trouble or Spencer needs a rest and the other guy shifts to C. We really could use a center though. Anyone know if Brian Skinner is available?

 

[Gary]

Well, in fairness to Westbrook, Westbrook made Westbrook look like Chris Paul. Evans had a bad night. He still got to the basket but his shot just wouldn't fall. It happens! I counted six passes that could have been assists, but the shots were missed. It happens!. No excuses. Casspi had a very good game. The dude is fearless. He reminds me of the Sundance Kid. Thompson almost got a double double despite the fact that he was on the bench because of foul trouble. Still, he had a decent game and made few mistakes. Hawes seems to play better when he's on the floor with Thompson for some reason. In the fourth quarter his defense improved dramaticly when he was out there with Thompson. No explaination for it. It just seems that way to me.

As far as the perception of Hawes pumping out three pointer after three pointer. He took 10 shots. 2 of which were three pointers. One was a wide open shot with no one near him. He had to take it. He missed both attempts. All of his points were scored in the paint. So perception aside, he did go into the paint and try to score. I'm not defending him overall. He had a bad game. But three point shooting had nothing to do with it.

Just my opinion, but I think the Thunder were loaded for bear after the embarrassment a week ago. By the same token, I think the Kings just wern't ready for a team with that mentality on their opening night. Its a work in progress, but I may be one of the few thats enjoying it. Remember, its still just a game...

I hate that excuse (bolded)

It happens to all the PGs.. Even the ones that average 10 per game.. That's why they aren't averaging 16apg. Evans really didn't play PG tonight.. He played "let's bring the pall up and pass to someone out at the 3pt line hoping they can create something".

It wasn't a pretty game to watch.

 

[sc3252]

I am going to try and stay positive and only mention one player. Casspi! Loved him, everyone else was .

 

[Aenadin]

I am going to try and stay positive and only mention one player. Casspi! Loved him, everyone else was .

you just got

shock and Hawes...

but not in a good way

and Sean May day

 

[ElRey]

The bothersome thing about Evans wasn't all the offensive struggles and the one on one, most people saw that coming. It was that Westbrook was 7 for 12 with a double-double against him. I thought that even if he struggled at PG, he'd offer some better defensive outcome at the position.

Westbrook ain't no slouch. He was a top lottery pick. OkC passed on your beloved Rubio because of him. It also helps to play with future all stars in Durant and Green.

 

[ElRey]

Sometimes I really wonder why some fans remain fans despite all their whining and obvious lack of love for anything about the team.

Oh my Lebron lost, the cavs must suck. just like us.

So Evans had a bad game. The Rubio fans can have their day, we still love em.


I think people are either not aware or forgetting how good this OKC team really is. Look at their roster.

Durant = future superstar
Westbrook = future all star pg
Green = future all star
Harden = top lottery pick, picked even ahead of Evans.


You add that with a pumped up OKC team that wanted to redeem themselves on opening night in front of their home crowd and you have a blow out against a young inexperienced Kings team.

 

[Warhawk]

So is nobody thinking much of Beno with 0 minutes one way or the other? Just surprised nobody has discussed it. I didn't get to watch the game (listened to it at work).

 

[PurpleHaze]

So is nobody thinking much of Beno with 0 minutes one way or the other? Just surprised nobody has discussed it. I didn't get to watch the game (listened to it at work).

Was he even in uniform? I thought I saw Beno on the sidelines in street clothes during last nights game in OKC. Injured again?

 

[mac]

I couldn't care less about Beno udrih

 

[KingGiant49erFan]

This just occurred to me and now that it did it seems so obvious.. Now i didnt watch the game or any preseason games as I am in europe this year [ for my fandom but for life lol] but isnt it pretty apparent that Tyreke Evans isn't a point guard if we're being honest with ourselves? To be honest I dont even understand why such a fuss is being made over the situation.. he's 6'5"+ in shoes (aka 6'6" just like anybody else who is "six foot six" in the nba) with a 6'11"+ wingspan. His strengths on offense are his driving ability and his ball handling.. why don't we just save the time and call him a SG?? its not even like hes a tweener, hes a full blown shooting guard in my estimation. Maybe one day he can be the type of shooting guard that brings the ball up the court and initiates the offense sometimes ala kobe, wade, etc.. anyway so if you believe that Evans is a shooting guard or at least could effectively play there, and then you consider that we started freaking Desmond Mason at the 2 last night, and then you FURTHER consider that we have a pure point guard on the team in Sergio (who btw is only 23 years old and never really had much of a chance burried behind all those guards in portland).. doesnt the starting line up seem pretty natural/obvious? (only exception is that Omri should probably be starting but from what i can gather he's definitely not the type of player that needs to start to be effective)

 

[piksi]

Martin was good

if 5-19 is good - I don't even want to see bad

 

[TaxMan]

even if 2/3 of those shots went in evans would still have half of the assists that westbrook had. our one dimensional star martin had twice as many assists and only 1 turnover. though if he averages 27ppg/4rpg/4apg we really cant call him one dimensional.

sergio should start at pg next game or at least get more than 13 minutes when evans isnt playing well.

Can we maybe just take a deeeeep breath? Rookie point guards are going to have a lot of ups and downs. Jonny Flynn just had a game with 2 assists and 3 turnovers. Would you like to know Russell Westbrooks stats for his first few games in the league last year?

Game 1 vs. MIL: Pts: 13, Ast: 4, TO: 2
Game 2 vs. HOU: Pts: 6, Ast: 3, TO: 2
Game 3 vs. MIN: Pts: 14, Ast: 2, TO: 3
Game 4 vs. BOS: Pts: 13, Ast: 1, TO: 2
Game 5 vs. UTH: Pts: 6, Ast: 1, TO: 2

I would imagine you could look back at the careers of most rookie PGs and seem very inconsistent play their first month of the season, and probably their whole rookie season (obvious examples being Nash and Stockton).

 

[dbfish]

Any thoughts on why Brockman didn't get more time? He seemed to play his 5 min. with a lot of energy.

It was past his curfew?

 

[mac]

It was past his curfew?

nice

 

[bajaden]

even if 2/3 of those shots went in evans would still have half of the assists that westbrook had. our one dimensional star martin had twice as many assists and only 1 turnover. though if he averages 27ppg/4rpg/4apg we really cant call him one dimensional.

sergio should start at pg next game or at least get more than 13 minutes when evans isnt playing well.

First off, I'm not comparing Evans to Westbrook..However, if you want to do that in the generic sense. Westbrook is another player that most said last year would never be a point guard and was, Ahemm, a true shooting guard. So there is a similarity for you, if you want to compare. Using this form of logic, then Evans will probably have 12 assists in his home opener next year.

But, as I stated, Evans had a bad game. All players have bad games. Now if he has 20 of these in a row, then I'm going to be very concerned. Back when I was still a luke warm Warrior fan, I watched Timmy Hardaway go something like 2 for 22 from the floor with 2 assists and 6 turnovers. Did that mean he sucked, or did it mean he just had one of those nights.

I thought it was interesting that Thompson said the the ref's came up at halftime and told him they had looked at the game film and decided he didn't deserve a couple of the fouls he got. Duh! I guess it helped in the second half though, when they seemed to swallow their whistles.

 

[bajaden]

I hate that excuse (bolded)

It happens to all the PGs.. Even the ones that average 10 per game.. That's why they aren't averaging 16apg. Evans really didn't play PG tonight.. He played "let's bring the pall up and pass to someone out at the 3pt line hoping they can create something".

It wasn't a pretty game to watch.

I wasn't really throwing it out there as an excuse, but as an exampe of the fact that he did try to get others involved. As I stated, he had a bad game. One thing he has to overcome is trying to do it all by himself when the game plan doesn't seem to be working. I thought thats what he did in the second half of the game. He used to do the same thing at Memphis. At memphis he had more of an excuse because of the lack of talent. He has to trust his teammates and rely on them.

 

[kennadog]

I wasn't really throwing it out there as an excuse, but as an exampe of the fact that he did try to get others involved. As I stated, he had a bad game. One thing he has to overcome is trying to do it all by himself when the game plan doesn't seem to be working. I thought thats what he did in the second half of the game. He used to do the same thing at Memphis. At memphis he had more of an excuse because of the lack of talent. He has to trust his teammates and rely on them.

And that will take time. These guys are almost all young and many haven't played there teammates for more than a few weeks.

The flip side of it being hard to get assists if your teamates are missing everything, is that Westbrook got a lot of assists, because they couldn't miss, expecially in the 1st quarter. It seemed like everything from everywhere was going in. Kings played terrible defense. That certainly contributed to Westbrook's assist numbers.

 

[bajaden]

So Evans had a bad game. The Rubio fans can have their day, we still love em.


I think people are either not aware or forgetting how good this OKC team really is. Look at their roster.

Durant = future superstar
Westbrook = future all star pg
Green = future all star
Harden = top lottery pick, picked even ahead of Evans.


You add that with a pumped up OKC team that wanted to redeem themselves on opening night in front of their home crowd and you have a blow out against a young inexperienced Kings team.

I don't know that Westbrook is a future all star. There's a lot of competition at that position. One game does not a season make, so I'll reserve judgement on Westbrook. Durant, yes, he's certainly going to be a regular at the all star game. Green, I love! I loved him in college and he's been everything I thought he would be. I think he's a better player than Beasley, but Beasley got all the press. Getting the nod for the all star game though is another thing. Once again, there's a lot of competition at his position, especially in the western division. It could happen though! His main problem is that I think he's a true SF, and thats the position Durant plays. With the addition of Harden, who I think will adapt quickly to the NBA game, they have a good core of talented players.

I think the Kings came in, took them lightly and got their heads handed to them. It won't be the last time this season..

 

[Kingsguy881]

even if 2/3 of those shots went in evans would still have half of the assists that westbrook had. our one dimensional star martin had twice as many assists and only 1 turnover. though if he averages 27ppg/4rpg/4apg we really cant call him one dimensional.

sergio should start at pg next game or at least get more than 13 minutes when evans isnt playing well.

That is the dumbest thing. No, he should not start. He is not a future superstar like Evans is. He is not even a dependable role player. Man crush.

 

[gunks]

Its pretty obvious what happened last night...


Tyreke Evans just had a particularly violent bout of Time Sickness.

You see, Reke is a terminator like machine/superhuman that was sent back in time to save the Kings. Hence the hurricane at his "birth". Every now and then time traveling superbeasts get acute "Time Sickness", which allows lesser players such as Westbrook to take advantage.

Also....Once Reke gets his "dunking upgrade" (this will appear as a beam of light shooting down from the heavens into his forehead, hopefully during a game where we play the Lakers)....Watch out league.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Also....Once Reke gets his "dunking upgrade" (this will appear as a beam of light shooting down from the heavens into his forehead, hopefully during a game where we play the Lakers)....Watch out league.

Yes, definitely something he needs to work on.

Get to basket at will? Check.
Bring ball along with you? Check.
Throw it down with authority? Not so much. But I trust that it will come.

 

[bajaden]

That is the dumbest thing. No, he should not start. He is not a future superstar like Evans is. He is not even a dependable role player. Man crush.

Well, he is kind of cute. I can't believe I just said that!

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Yes, definitely something he needs to work on.

Get to basket at will? Check.
Bring ball along with you? Check.
Throw it down with authority? Not so much. But I trust that it will come.

yah for sure, do you guys think he just dosent have the hops in him to throw it down after a strong drive? or is it just because hes timid/scared? he got to the rim about 6-8 times yesterday with ease and tryed a weak layup. Even when he was on the breakaway and he went for the dunk he was kinda of hesitant to dunk it and got fouled and missed... It was only his first pro game and hes getting used to the NBA sized bigs but with all that strength and length you would think he could throw it down alot easier.

 

[bajaden]

Yes, definitely something he needs to work on.

Get to basket at will? Check.
Bring ball along with you? Check.
Throw it down with authority? Not so much. But I trust that it will come.

Wow, good thing I continued reading.. At first I thought you were going to say he needed to work on getting a beam of light to shoot down from the heavens into his forehead. Man! Thats got to hurt. He better have a years supply of vicaden handy..

 

[Oprostaj]

This just occurred to me and now that it did it seems so obvious.. Now i didnt watch the game or any preseason games as I am in europe this year [ for my fandom but for life lol] but isnt it pretty apparent that Tyreke Evans isn't a point guard if we're being honest with ourselves? To be honest I dont even understand why such a fuss is being made over the situation.. he's 6'5"+ in shoes (aka 6'6" just like anybody else who is "six foot six" in the nba) with a 6'11"+ wingspan. His strengths on offense are his driving ability and his ball handling.. why don't we just save the time and call him a SG?? its not even like hes a tweener, hes a full blown shooting guard in my estimation. Maybe one day he can be the type of shooting guard that brings the ball up the court and initiates the offense sometimes ala kobe, wade, etc.. anyway so if you believe that Evans is a shooting guard or at least could effectively play there, and then you consider that we started freaking Desmond Mason at the 2 last night, and then you FURTHER consider that we have a pure point guard on the team in Sergio (who btw is only 23 years old and never really had much of a chance burried behind all those guards in portland).. doesnt the starting line up seem pretty natural/obvious? (only exception is that Omri should probably be starting but from what i can gather he's definitely not the type of player that needs to start to be effective)

shhhh... how dare you use common sense..

although, from what i've heard/seen, Tyreke is an interesting conundrum. Has all the tools physically to play the PG/SG position, altough just by his size he would be a natural 2. however, he has a terrible jumpshot, which would render him useless there unless he turns into Doug Christie/Bowen type defender, and he (right now, anyway) is not even the best PG on the team. What to do... what to do... I say give him time. If after half the season it ain't working out, give it to Sergio. He's shown he's a pretty good PG when given the opportunity.

 

[gunks]

yah for sure, do you guys think he just dosent have the hops in him to throw it down after a strong drive? or is it just because hes timid/scared? he got to the rim about 6-8 times yesterday with ease and tryed a weak layup. Even when he was on the breakaway and he went for the dunk he was kinda of hesitant to dunk it and got fouled and missed... It was only his first pro game and hes getting used to the NBA sized bigs but with all that strength and length you would think he could throw it down alot easier.

For how tall he is, and with that freakish wingspan, you'd think a 10 inch vert would be all he needs to dunk.

I was worried about this when I watched some youtubes on Reke. Usually those highlight clips are nothing but dunks. He had like, 2 (although one was a straight up nasty posterization of some guy). Maybe he just doesnt like to expend the energy? I dunno...

Nothing WRONG with layups (just ask Tony Parker)...Tyreke may just be needing to adjust a bit. I'm hoping his offense is better against The Hornets. Paul is going to pick his pocket at least 8 times though.

 

[rhythmless]

For how tall he is, and with that freakish wingspan, you'd think a 10 inch vert would be all he needs to dunk.

I was worried about this when I watched some youtubes on Reke. Usually those highlight clips are nothing but dunks. He had like, 2 (although one was a straight up nasty posterization of some guy). Maybe he just doesnt like to expend the energy? I dunno...

Nothing WRONG with layups (just ask Tony Parker)...Tyreke may just be needing to adjust a bit. I'm hoping his offense is better against The Hornets. Paul is going to pick his pocket at least 8 times though.

Reke's standing is 8'8", while he has a max vert reach of 11'6". I'm assuming this is w/o the ball, so we can knock that down a few inches due to his loss of momentum swing/etc for having to hold the ball and bring it up (it does matter). Factor in how he would hold the ball, that will take away up to half a foot too (ball in hand means max vert is no longer his finger tips, but his wrist). Now his ball clearance is down to maybe 10'6". To dunk cleanly, you need to clear the rim a few inches. Now you're basically asking him to jump almost his max vert for a clean dunk. With a nice speed and clear lane, he could dunk the ball cleanly, asking him to throw it down in traffic is a whole 'nother matter entirely. I would say that you will see dunks from him only in the open court, and as a trailer on a fast break. Doesn't seem to have elite explosiveness of a Kobe, Josh Smith, Westbrook to just jump right over you when you are in the vacinity.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I just watched the game again from last night.. I slowed it down on every possesion we got scored on.. Our collaping into the paint is killing us. As soon as somebody drives everyone seems to collapse into the lane.. even if they dont have a defensive chance to affect the play. This led to numerous open threes which killed us.

Mason did nothing positive on defense, he was the one mostly collapsing to the paint in the first, it looked like he wanted to crash the boards.. but they just kept kicking out to Durant and burning us with threes.

We didnt call our first time out untill we were down 20-10 with 6 minutes left in the first.... Thats something westphal needs to be aware of. that was way too late.

I also noticed our double teaming in the post was brutal! they were hot from three and we kept on double teaming and not rotating fast enough to catch back up on defense.

On offense Spencer maybe set 3 screens the whole game... he needs to set wayyyyyy more then that.

I watched tyreke closely and he just seemed timid when attacking the rim to finish. This will easily be corrected when he gets the jitters out of his system.

Brockman deserved more playing time, we went on a nice run while he was in and forced them to call a timeout.. Then PW took brockman out?..

When we ran the ball thru Spencer at the highpost good things happend and we got some buckets from Martin, hopefully they will do a little more of the high post princeton play.

Just some second time around thoughts after watching the game.. we have a lot of stuff to improve on but it is stuff we can improve on.

 

[bajaden]

Reke's standing is 8'8", while he has a max vert reach of 11'6". I'm assuming this is w/o the ball, so we can knock that down a few inches due to his loss of momentum swing/etc for having to hold the ball and bring it up (it does matter). Factor in how he would hold the ball, that will take away up to half a foot too (ball in hand means max vert is no longer his finger tips, but his wrist). Now his ball clearance is down to maybe 10'6". To dunk cleanly, you need to clear the rim a few inches. Now you're basically asking him to jump almost his max vert for a clean dunk. With a nice speed and clear lane, he could dunk the ball cleanly, asking him to throw it down in traffic is a whole 'nother matter entirely. I would say that you will see dunks from him only in the open court, and as a trailer on a fast break. Doesn't seem to have elite explosiveness of a Kobe, Josh Smith, Westbrook to just jump right over you when you are in the vacinity.

I remember watching a workout drill with him where he stands under the basket and just keeps going up with two hands and dunking the ball. I suspect its a stamina drill. My point is that Evans easily went up time after time and dunked the ball with two hands from a standing position.
Must we psycoanalyize every tiny thing. Even his dunking.

Most players that are capable of dunking that decide to lay it up instead, do so as a way of protecting the ball and making it more difficult to block. It usually means the player is in traffic and doesn't have a clear unconstested lane to the basket. Sometimes they just don't go in..