If Artest is suspended I will definitely be sending out profane letters to the NBA. What a freaking joke man. They were battling for position, and Artest did nothing other than hard nosed good defense. And that "elbow" was inadvertent and innocent. He should not have been thrown out for arguing that.
[LAL/HOU] - Western Conference, Round 2
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Now that I've cooled down a bit I can see that 
Sloppy play in the 4th, and you're right, Yao wasnt doing much at all.
BUT...
Doesnt change the fact that the refs changed the momentum starting in the late 3rd. Rockets had it going their way, then the whistles started blowing. Kobe should have been gone, not Artest...That could have changed things.
I'm hoping the Rockets make the adjustments that you mentioned though, if they do game 3 is going to be a blow out in favor of the home team. Kobe is dirty, the Lakers are weak. I think I'd hate them even if I wasnt a Kings fan haha.
Loved how all the TNT guys seemed to have Ron's back after his interview.
Sloppy play in the 4th, and you're right, Yao wasnt doing much at all.
BUT...
Doesnt change the fact that the refs changed the momentum starting in the late 3rd. Rockets had it going their way, then the whistles started blowing. Kobe should have been gone, not Artest...That could have changed things.
I'm hoping the Rockets make the adjustments that you mentioned though, if they do game 3 is going to be a blow out in favor of the home team. Kobe is dirty, the Lakers are weak. I think I'd hate them even if I wasnt a Kings fan haha.
Loved how all the TNT guys seemed to have Ron's back after his interview.
The Lakers are not a tough team, they have a bunch of guys who don't like to play physical basketball and get upset when they're challenged by a physical team (like Kobe throwing a fit because he had to fight for a loose ball in Game 1, or Ariza throwing up his hands in frustration when he got beat in the post by Artest). Derek Fisher's comments in his interview that TNT showed, about how some teams have guys that act tough, but they aren't, those words came back to bite him in the butt. I've never considered Fisher to be a dirty player, or a soft player, and he's earned his NBA reps, but what he did last night was ridiculously beyond the pale. Unprompted, premeditated thuggery, all because Scola stood up to every Laker on the floor without blinking an eyelash.
I'm sure Fisher will be suspended. I would fall out in disbelief if Kobe was. I hope they leave Ron alone, because even though he got out of hand last night, only Ron would have been ejected for that offense, which is basically the same thing Lamar Odom had been doing to Scola all night.
This is going to be a good series. I'm looking forward to seeing how Adelman and the Rockets respond at home.
Kobe elbowed him in the chest, not the neck.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111815/koberon7_medium.png
He didn't appreciate Artest putting his forearms on his neck and bending him down. I guess the proper thing to do would be to let Ron push him around all game.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111795/koberon3_medium.png
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111815/koberon7_medium.png
He didn't appreciate Artest putting his forearms on his neck and bending him down. I guess the proper thing to do would be to let Ron push him around all game.
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/111795/koberon3_medium.png
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4149018
I don't think the angle I've seen shows where exactly the elbow lands by you can see his face and his intentions.
Come on, man. Kobe and Artest weren't matched up very often last night, same as Game 1. It was primarily Battier on Artest. It's not like they'd been having a shoving match all game long.
I don't think anyone should just let someone push and shove on them all game, but you know what? When you're battling for a rebound in the playoffs, you're going to get pushed and shoved. That's not justification for you deliberately throwing an elbow.
And this is why I said earlier that the Lakers are softies who don't want to be played physically. They get flustered and upset whenever a physical team shows up ready to play, and that's part of the reason they got beat last season by the Celtics. The thuggery they demonstrated last night is not evidence that they're ready to go toes with a physical team.
I don't think anyone should just let someone push and shove on them all game, but you know what? When you're battling for a rebound in the playoffs, you're going to get pushed and shoved. That's not justification for you deliberately throwing an elbow.
And this is why I said earlier that the Lakers are softies who don't want to be played physically. They get flustered and upset whenever a physical team shows up ready to play, and that's part of the reason they got beat last season by the Celtics. The thuggery they demonstrated last night is not evidence that they're ready to go toes with a physical team.
I don't buy this one because they didn't bother to stand up to the Cs at all and you enjoyed the result of that more than I did.
From where I was watching, it didn't look like it was the Lakers who were flustered. Ask Ron/Wafer in the jacuzzi and Scola who had guys in his face at every direction.
You're praising the Rockets as a physical team. They should take it back as they give it, though I know you'd appreciate it if LA just let them lean, hack, put their hands in shooters' faces, and tug on jerseys in the paint all night.
From where I was watching, it didn't look like it was the Lakers who were flustered. Ask Ron/Wafer in the jacuzzi and Scola who had guys in his face at every direction.
You're praising the Rockets as a physical team. They should take it back as they give it, though I know you'd appreciate it if LA just let them lean, hack, put their hands in shooters' faces, and tug on jerseys in the paint all night.
Artest plays straight up physical bball. You see bigs pushing on each other's back like that every game. Its just that kobe is too weak for Artest to hold his own position so he flops forward. kobe's way of playing tough is playing dirty with elbows. He can't overpower Ron or even Battier so he resorts to those tactics.
The lakers are a soft team. They've been since Shaq left. Even against the Suns they were getting punked. Thats why kobe resorted to his same "tough" act of elbowing Bell in the face repeatedly.
There is a clear difference between playing tough/physical and playing dirty. kobe, fisher, sasha.... these guys are dirty players. Not tough.
There is a clear difference between playing tough/physical and playing dirty. kobe, fisher, sasha.... these guys are dirty players. Not tough.
1) You're ignoring the facts surrounding this situation. Kobe threw an elbow at Artest while battling for a rebound. He hadn't been getting leaned on and pushed around by Artest all game, because he and Artest hadn't been matchup up all game. His elbow, whether retaliatory or not, was unnecessary and not a normal basketball play. While it pales in comparison to Fisher's thuggery, it was still a foul, and it fits in with Kobe's pattern of taking shots at players who get physical with him.
2) The Celtics got away with a lot of physical play against the Lakers in the Finals last year. It was either Game 2 or Game 3 that I couldn't even enjoy because it was so slanted for the C's. And the fact that the Lakers didn't bother to stand up to them is the reason that they have the reputation of being a soft team that can't handle a physical defense that pushes them around.
3) The Rockets should take what they give, but it's not the Rockets throwing elbows and delivering open field body shots. The Lakers, in their attempt to be a "tough team", took it way above and beyond what can be considered clean play. This is not just giving it back the way they're getting it. Houston plays tough, physical defense, and they do grab jerseys and push and shove (nothing wrong with putting a hand in a shooter's face, that's not what you're saying is it?), but that's basketball. Kobe's elbow and Fisher's open field tackle were not basketball plays.
4) Houston was flustered, but battled back and held the Lakers to 18 points in the second quarter to tie the game by halftime. They regrouped, gathered themselves together, and didn't back down. Lamar Odom was chirping in Scola's ear everytime down the floor, and Scola decided to go ahead and talk back. Then Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic said "let's get in this scrum too, because we're tough", and Scola was ready for all comers. Techs got handed out, then Fisher laid Scola out. The "flustered" Scola hit both free throws. Von Wafter getting sent to the bench is probably more about Adelman getting on him about taking dumb shots; he was upset after his team's Game 1 win because he went scoreless, he's a gunner, and he wanted to get his points in Game 2, and that's why he had words with Adelman. But he wasn't involved in any of the altercations with the Lakers.
5) The game was close, despite all the chippiness, until Artest got suspended, which was unwarranted. Despite the Lakers' attempt to bully the Rockets, they were in danger of losing Game 2, until the Rockets' best player last night got tossed for doing to Kobe what Odom and every other Laker had been doing to Scola and Battier all night long.
I don't know why you're acting like anyone is suggesting that the Lakers don't have the right to stand up for themselves, but last night wasn't standing up. It was thuggery.
2) The Celtics got away with a lot of physical play against the Lakers in the Finals last year. It was either Game 2 or Game 3 that I couldn't even enjoy because it was so slanted for the C's. And the fact that the Lakers didn't bother to stand up to them is the reason that they have the reputation of being a soft team that can't handle a physical defense that pushes them around.
3) The Rockets should take what they give, but it's not the Rockets throwing elbows and delivering open field body shots. The Lakers, in their attempt to be a "tough team", took it way above and beyond what can be considered clean play. This is not just giving it back the way they're getting it. Houston plays tough, physical defense, and they do grab jerseys and push and shove (nothing wrong with putting a hand in a shooter's face, that's not what you're saying is it?), but that's basketball. Kobe's elbow and Fisher's open field tackle were not basketball plays.
4) Houston was flustered, but battled back and held the Lakers to 18 points in the second quarter to tie the game by halftime. They regrouped, gathered themselves together, and didn't back down. Lamar Odom was chirping in Scola's ear everytime down the floor, and Scola decided to go ahead and talk back. Then Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic said "let's get in this scrum too, because we're tough", and Scola was ready for all comers. Techs got handed out, then Fisher laid Scola out. The "flustered" Scola hit both free throws. Von Wafter getting sent to the bench is probably more about Adelman getting on him about taking dumb shots; he was upset after his team's Game 1 win because he went scoreless, he's a gunner, and he wanted to get his points in Game 2, and that's why he had words with Adelman. But he wasn't involved in any of the altercations with the Lakers.
5) The game was close, despite all the chippiness, until Artest got suspended, which was unwarranted. Despite the Lakers' attempt to bully the Rockets, they were in danger of losing Game 2, until the Rockets' best player last night got tossed for doing to Kobe what Odom and every other Laker had been doing to Scola and Battier all night long.
I don't know why you're acting like anyone is suggesting that the Lakers don't have the right to stand up for themselves, but last night wasn't standing up. It was thuggery.
Yep. Actually, it is - that is the reason stronger players are dominant. Ask Shaq all those years he's been pushing players out of the way and never called on it - one reason the Kings lost against the Lakers in that famous series. There is a difference between physical and dirty. Kobe crosses that line when he's overmatched. He should be penalized like anyone else not wearing a Laker jersey. But we all know that will not happen - the history of the Kobe/Shaq Laker teams in the PO is to cheat and get away with it.
Neither Kobe or Artest will get suspended. I doubt we will see Fisher in game 3, given he turned around and looked at Scola before delivering the blow.
What Kobe did was dirty, but that stuff happens in the playoffs. John Stockton use to get his elbows up real high when he set screens. No way Kobe gets suspended, and realisticly what can the refs do if they missed the elbow? I expect Kobe to get a flagrant 1, and for the refs to keep a close eye on him in game 3. I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe picks up a few offensive fouls, a few touch fouls on defense, and they call the game tighter on him than usuall. Personally, I don't want Kobe getting suspended. This sets up a great game 3, and I really want to see a physical battle between Kobe and Artest/Battier.
IMO the Kobe play wasn't as bad as when we see big men grab rebs and swing their elbows at the smallest guys on the court. Malone, Shaq, Garnett have all been guilty of elbowing opposing pg's in the head after collecting defensive rebs. I think that is worse. At least Kobe had the balls to elbow the most physical small forward in the league. An elbow like the one Malone threw at Nash(and connected) a few years back is much worse. Not trying to defend Kobe, but I can see why he did it. Trying to send a message like CWebb did to Stockton in game 3.
What Kobe did was dirty, but that stuff happens in the playoffs. John Stockton use to get his elbows up real high when he set screens. No way Kobe gets suspended, and realisticly what can the refs do if they missed the elbow? I expect Kobe to get a flagrant 1, and for the refs to keep a close eye on him in game 3. I wouldn't be surprised if Kobe picks up a few offensive fouls, a few touch fouls on defense, and they call the game tighter on him than usuall. Personally, I don't want Kobe getting suspended. This sets up a great game 3, and I really want to see a physical battle between Kobe and Artest/Battier.
IMO the Kobe play wasn't as bad as when we see big men grab rebs and swing their elbows at the smallest guys on the court. Malone, Shaq, Garnett have all been guilty of elbowing opposing pg's in the head after collecting defensive rebs. I think that is worse. At least Kobe had the balls to elbow the most physical small forward in the league. An elbow like the one Malone threw at Nash(and connected) a few years back is much worse. Not trying to defend Kobe, but I can see why he did it. Trying to send a message like CWebb did to Stockton in game 3.
Kobe and his famous elbow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1Yt4KUND4
check out some of the guys Kobe elbowed in the past
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1Yt4KUND4
check out some of the guys Kobe elbowed in the past
I don't even care that Ron got kicked out of the game. Guilty by reputation mostly. When he got up in Kobe's face after Kobe got away with another cheap shot he was a hero to everyone who's ever watched their team play against the Lakers. Actually, I bet at least one player on the Lakers bench was secretly proud of Ron too. Kobe's jawing all game about how no one can guard him, but he's getting thoroughly outplayed by Ron Artest and the Lakers are possibly in danger of going 0-2 on their own court despite the refs keeping Yao out of the game. So Kobe has to prove he's the man and throw his elbows around and smirk like nothing happened. I'm going to love watching the Lakers go down in game 3.
I don't even need evidence. The league already proved it. The Donughy scandal proved that you can accurately predict the outcome of an NBA basketball game based on who the officials assigned to the game are. If the league cared at all about fair officiating, Joey Crawford would never be assigned to another playoff game at Staples center. Ever. As soon as I saw him on the court, I knew the Lakers were going to win. The Rockets made it tough for them for awhile by shooting the lights out in the second quarter. There's nothing Crawford can do about that. But he can call Yao for 3 questionable foul calls and keep him on the bench. And he can call Artest for a fouling Kobe's elbow with his neck and then toss him out of the game for not taking it like a punk. The Rockets had no chance without Yao and Artest in the game.
We can talk about what the Rockets didn't do, it's never entirely the refs fault. But that's why they continue to get away with it. NBA games are all about momentum. Take away a possession on one end and give the other team free throws and you've just put 4 points between the teams. That's the difference between a 6 point lead and a 10 point lead. I saw that happen at least twice in the third quarter of this game. And if fouls are involved, you're also potentially taking a player out of the game. The refs have way too much power to manipulate the outcome.
I don't even need evidence. The league already proved it. The Donughy scandal proved that you can accurately predict the outcome of an NBA basketball game based on who the officials assigned to the game are. If the league cared at all about fair officiating, Joey Crawford would never be assigned to another playoff game at Staples center. Ever. As soon as I saw him on the court, I knew the Lakers were going to win. The Rockets made it tough for them for awhile by shooting the lights out in the second quarter. There's nothing Crawford can do about that. But he can call Yao for 3 questionable foul calls and keep him on the bench. And he can call Artest for a fouling Kobe's elbow with his neck and then toss him out of the game for not taking it like a punk. The Rockets had no chance without Yao and Artest in the game.
We can talk about what the Rockets didn't do, it's never entirely the refs fault. But that's why they continue to get away with it. NBA games are all about momentum. Take away a possession on one end and give the other team free throws and you've just put 4 points between the teams. That's the difference between a 6 point lead and a 10 point lead. I saw that happen at least twice in the third quarter of this game. And if fouls are involved, you're also potentially taking a player out of the game. The refs have way too much power to manipulate the outcome.
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These pictures are worthless to the question of where Bryant's elbow landed. I don't even know why you posted them.
Based on the angle in the TNT broadcast, I don't think Bryant's actions warrant suspension. It looked like the elbow hit on the upper chest. If a different replay or photo shows it landing on the neck, I think that warrants a suspension, otherwise it's just an elbow when jockeying for position going for a rebound.
Based on the angle in the TNT broadcast, I don't think Bryant's actions warrant suspension. It looked like the elbow hit on the upper chest. If a different replay or photo shows it landing on the neck, I think that warrants a suspension, otherwise it's just an elbow when jockeying for position going for a rebound.
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