[LAL/HOU] - Western Conference, Round 2

[Superman]

Its going to be dirty, its going to be ugly on the eyes, but the Lakers are not going to lose 4 out of 7. If they do this will be the biggest upset since 1986.

Why not?

Let's be clear here: the Lakers are the favorites, but the playoffs is about matchups and adjustments. Houston just stole home court advantage, they play nasty, physical basketball, they have a dominant post presence, two premiere perimeter defenders, a quick point guard, role players who can knock down shots, and they're well coached.

I really don't understand why everyone is just writing the Rockets off.

 

[beb0p]

The funny thing is, I dont remember Dick missing all of those free throws at HOME.

But I do remember the free throws disparity was like 50 to 20 in favor of the Lakers? Or was it 80 to 10?

Apparently the Lakers don't commit fouls.

My Game 2 prediction: Yao and Artest get 3 fouls each in the 1st quarter. Rockets in the penalty early. A lot of hand-check and breathing fouls by Houston. No guarding is allowed on Kobe. Lakers by 2.

 

[beb0p]

If they do this will be the biggest upset since 1986.

Actually, the biggest upset in my lifetime was when the "Greatest Team Ever Assembled" with four future HOF players and one future HOF coach lost in 5 games to a team from the Leastern Conference.

Still the biggest choke job I've ever seen.

 

[Andre87]

Actually, the biggest upset in my lifetime was when the "Greatest Team Ever Assembled" with four future HOF players and one future HOF coach lost in 5 games to a team from the Leastern Conference.

Still the biggest choke job I've ever seen.

that Leastern Conference team was arguably the best defensive team ever so they just lost to a better team

 

[kingsnation]

Actually, the biggest upset in my lifetime was when the "Greatest Team Ever Assembled" with four future HOF players and one future HOF coach lost in 5 games to a team from the Leastern Conference.

Still the biggest choke job I've ever seen.

Yeah that was no choke. They were 4 HOF players, but they weren't a team. That series was the greatest example of who wins a game of team basketball vs 5 individuals.

 

[RKid]

Actually, the biggest upset in my lifetime was when the "Greatest Team Ever Assembled" with four future HOF players and one future HOF coach lost in 5 games to a team from the Leastern Conference.

Still the biggest choke job I've ever seen.

To this day I have always believed that Malone's injury and sunk that team. Malone was the glue that held that team together. Once he went down we were done. Kobe and Shaq's innability to put ther differences aside caused that implosion.

....An Detroit in hindsight was a far better team then people gave them credit for. They were just better.

The biggest choke job that I have seen, belongs to either the Blazers in 2000, the Kings in 2002 or the Lakers in 2006.

 

[SacKings7]

Yeah the Blazers definitely choked that series away against the Lakers. Up by 20 in the 4th quarter in game 7. I'm not even a Blazer fan, and even I'm still feeling that one..

 

[RKid]

Why not?

Let's be clear here: the Lakers are the favorites, but the playoffs is about matchups and adjustments. Houston just stole home court advantage, they play nasty, physical basketball, they have a dominant post presence, two premiere perimeter defenders, a quick point guard, role players who can knock down shots, and they're well coached.

I really don't understand why everyone is just writing the Rockets off.

Obviously I dont know if the Lakers are going to lose 4 out of 7 but I doubt they will for the following rasons:

a) We have a more talented and skillful team one through ten
b) we have a better coach
c) We have the experience

I dont put it past the realm of possibility that the Rox might win, but it will be an upset. I think the key here is going to be Yao Ming and Aaron Brooks. If they can continue to put up the points and the D holds than god have mercy on us all.

 

[beb0p]

that Leastern Conference team was arguably the best defensive team ever so they just lost to a better team

Ah, the Spurs and Bad Boys Piston anyone??

 

[RKid]

true

he just made sure that there was a game 7

You are right. It should have been over in 5.

 

[beb0p]

Yeah that was no choke. They were 4 HOF players, but they weren't a team. That series was the greatest example of who wins a game of team basketball vs 5 individuals.

Actually the Lakers were a team until they ran into the Pistons (remember they were blowing away every opponents). And then they just gave up after losing Game 3. Just simply stopped competing. And when you're the stronger team and you just hang up a white flag after 3 games, that's choking in my book. Well, naybe "Quiting" is a better description than "Choking", but I'll let you choose one.

 

[coolhandluke]

You are right. It should have been over in 5.

Yep, if only they had not counted Walker's three after the buzzer...

 

[coolhandluke]

Meanwhile back in 2009, the Lakers would have to front Yao and make some threes if they want to make it a short series in their favor.

Two things I found shocking last night were:
1. The poise of the Rockets in crunch time -- They have no "closer" and are prone to barf up turnovers in the fourth. They did a good job milking the quickness of Brooks to have the Lakers defense scrambling all over the floor.
2. The surprisingly even reffing of the game in Staples center -- I'm so used to seeing all the 50-50 calls go in the Lakers favor at home.

 

[Superman]

Obviously I dont know if the Lakers are going to lose 4 out of 7 but I doubt they will for the following rasons:

a) We have a more talented and skillful team one through ten

Sure, but the Rockets match up very well with the Lakers. Brooks is too quick for Fisher, Battier and Artest cause Bryant problems (31 shots for 32 points, only five free throws), if Bynum gets into foul trouble then Yao pretty much neutralizes Pau. Like I said, the playoffs are about matchups.

b) we have a better coach

Phil Jackson is better than Doc Rivers. He's better than Mike D'Antoni. He's better than Larry Brown. Those are the last three coaches to beat him the playoffs.

And by the way, I think Rick Adelman is better than all three of them, also.

c) We have the experience

This is a young Laker team. Sure, Kobe and Fisher have been through it, but Ariza is young, Brown is young, Bynum is young, Odom is inconsistent and mistake prone. Pau is dependable.

All in all, of course the Lakers are more experienced, and that counts, but not if they shoot less than 20% from outside and Kobe only gets one point per shot and Bynum gets into early foul trouble because he's out of position. I mean, experience be damned if they can't execute because the Rockets defense is too physical.

I dont put it past the realm of possibility that the Rox might win, but it will be an upset. I think the key here is going to be Yao Ming and Aaron Brooks. If they can continue to put up the points and the D holds than god have mercy on us all.

I don't know if you're in SoCal or not, but I'm listening to Denholm and Long on KSPN last week, and they're writing the Rockets off. The Lakers won't have any trouble with them because the Lakers are the best team in the Western conference and just cruised past the [injured, fading] Utah Jazz, and Houston is without McGrady and Phil Jackson owns Rick Adelman, etc., etc. The Rockets are the team the Lakers didn't want, and now they're down 0-1 to them and have a fight on their hands.

Maybe all the reasons you mentioned above wind up being the reasons the Lakers win this series, but regardless, it's not gonna be a cakewalk.

 

[beb0p]

To this day I have always believed that Malone's injury and sunk that team. Malone was the glue that held that team together. Once he went down we were done. Kobe and Shaq's innability to put ther differences aside caused that implosion.

....An Detroit in hindsight was a far better team then people gave them credit for. They were just better.

The biggest choke job that I have seen, belongs to either the Blazers in 2000, the Kings in 2002 or the Lakers in 2006.

The Pistons really weren't better. Witness they've never won another ring. The reason they were better in that series is because the Lakers quitted (or choked, take your pick).

The whole definition of choking is when the better team had an inferior by its throat and then fell apart suddenly. The Kings were the underdog in 01-02. Remember all the experts were predicting a sweep or Lakers in 5? Choking doesn't apply to underdogs, they simply were supposed to lose. If the contest was close, you can say the underdog put up a good fight, or they just can't get over the hump, or whatever, but choking applies to the favorite. The one who was supposed to win but didn't. The Lakers and the Spanish national soccer team (until last year) are such examples of choking.

 

[kingsnation]

The Pistons really weren't better. Witness they've never won another ring. The reason they were better in that series is because the Lakers quitted (or choked, take your pick).

Neither the Pistons OR the Lakers have won a ring since so that's a moot point.

Also, I don't buy that a group of of 5 HOFs (including Jackson) just flat out gave up. They were just simply outplayed by a better team.

 

[coolhandluke]

classy

Shane must be suspended for fouling Kobe so many times with his face. How much abuse can Kobe's elbows and knees take?

 

[hrdboild]

Portland was a tougher playoff opponent than they got credit for. Houston had to work hard to win that series. The Lakers look like a team who expected this to be easy and ran into some resistance (what else is new?). The next test will be how LA responds. They have to win game 2 or risk going into Houston 0-2. If they win game 2, then the pressure is back on Houston to win at home and hold on to home court advantage. There's a lot of back and forth in these 7 game series. But I've been saying since the playoffs started that whoever won that Portland-Houston match up was going to give LA a real series and Houston is already off to a good start. I really believe Houston can and will win. And it's not over then either. The Nuggets are going to be a real problem for whoever makes it to the conference finals. They're playing with crazy confidence right now.

 

[LoungeLizard]

Portland was a tougher playoff opponent than they got credit for. Houston had to work hard to win that series. The Lakers look like a team who expected this to be easy and ran into some resistance (what else is new?). The next test will be how LA responds. They have to win game 2 or risk going into Houston 0-2. If they win game 2, then the pressure is back on Houston to win at home and hold on to home court advantage. There's a lot of back and forth in these 7 game series. But I've been saying since the playoffs started that whoever won that Portland-Houston match up was going to give LA a real series and Houston is already off to a good start. I really believe Houston can and will win. And it's not over then either. The Nuggets are going to be a real problem for whoever makes it to the conference finals. They're playing with crazy confidence right now.

That series is over already?

 

[beb0p]

Neither the Pistons OR the Lakers have won a ring since so that's a moot point.

Also, I don't buy that a group of of 5 HOFs (including Jackson) just flat out gave up. They were just simply outplayed by a better team.

Er, the Laker broke up the team while the Piston kept theirs. How is that a moot point?

Also, HOF or not, they quitted. All you have to do is watch that series again when you have the chance.

 

[kingsnation]

Er, the Laker broke up the team while the Piston kept theirs. How is that a moot point?

Also, HOF or not, they quitted. All you have to do is watch that series again when you have the chance.

You said the Pistons were not a better team than that Laker team because they never won another ring.

That makes no sense at all.

 

[RaY Z]

Whether it's a playoff game, a regular season game or even a pre-season game....

Dont you just love it when the lakers lose?



LAKERS SUCK!!!

 

[6th]

Dont you just love it when the lakers lose?

You bet!!!

 

[beb0p]

You said the Pistons were not a better team than that Laker team because they never won another ring.

That makes no sense at all.

Alright, this is the last which-team-is-better-than which team I'm going to comment on: the Lakers had the league's best record, four HOF players, they had the Kobe-Shaq-Phil combo that won three rings (although one was actually given to them), they blown away all their opponents, they even beat the Spurs handily. They are, by all account, a better team than the Piston, which had no one, and I mean no one in the starting lineup with Final experience. While the Lakers had a bunch of guys who had been to the Final.
And to top it off, the Piston lost to the Spurs the next year, the same Spurs that got beaten badly by the Lakers. So no, the idea that the Piston was a better team than the Lakers is at best, revisionistic. The Pistons were underrated maybe. But better, no.

 

[kingsnation]

Alright, this is the last which-team-is-better-than which team I'm going to comment on: the Lakers had the league's best record, four HOF players, they had the Kobe-Shaq-Phil combo that won three rings (although one was actually given to them), they blown away all their opponents, they even beat the Spurs handily. They are, by all account, a better team than the Piston, which had no one, and I mean no one in the starting lineup with Final experience. While the Lakers had a bunch of guys who had been to the Final.
And to top it off, the Piston lost to the Spurs the next year, the same Spurs that got beaten badly by the Lakers. So no, the idea that the Piston was a better team than the Lakers is at best, revisionistic. The Pistons were underrated maybe. But better, no.

You are missing my point. Why are you bringing up the past with the 3 rings? I am specifically talking that series. It doesn't matter what happened the year before or the year after.

The fact of the matter is that team (LA) was a team of individual play during that series. The Pistons were a better definition of the word team and they proved it with the title.

 

[Bricklayer]

That Lakers team was shaky however. At no point during the season did they look as dominant as the 3x title winners at the beginning of the decade. They certainly had more talent on one of Shaq's bunions than the Pistons did on their whole roster, but it was old, infighting, squabbling, unfocused chemistry-less talent. It was an upset at the time, but looking back on it from today's perspective, not a huge one. That Lakers team would have been squashed by almost any champion in the last 30 years. It was just a down year for great teams in the league. And a down year for great players too -- remember that was the year that nearly every single great player had off years or injury problems, and Peja Stojakovic of all peole emerged as an MVP candidate by default. Just a weird year.

 

[VF21]

I just read this whole thread and I have one warning:

RKid - This is NOT a Lakers forum. You are a guest in OUR house and it would be greatly appreciated if you left your blatant Laker homerism outside when you come in to talk with us about this series or anything else. The digs about 2002 notwithstanding, you're rapidly wearing out your welcome. Take a page from Gargamel and hoopsfan. They are respected even as Laker fans because they respect us enough not to gloat or act as though their excrement has no odor, etc.

I hope a word to the wise is sufficient because if it isn't you aren't going to like the next step.

Thanks ever so.

GO ROCKETS!

 

[pkballr]

Not to take away from the actual series thread, but it was interesting on the post game tonight what Chuck said about Jackson. He mentioned how he felt as though if the Lakers didn't win it all, there could possibly be a coaching change. With Scott possibly looking for another job... anyways, I'm not much of a gambling man and Chuck isn't as well, so it's good ol' fashioned speculation.

Go Rockets!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Shane must be suspended for fouling Kobe so many times with his face. How much abuse can Kobe's elbows and knees take?

how isn't that not a flagrant foul on shane? dang.. he just gets away with too much contact.

 

[beb0p]

You are missing my point. Why are you bringing up the past with the 3 rings? I am specifically talking that series. It doesn't matter what happened the year before or the year after.

The fact of the matter is that team (LA) was a team of individual play during that series. The Pistons were a better definition of the word team and they proved it with the title.

kingsnation, you're not listening. I've already answered your question. The Lakers were the better team but they imploded at the worst moment. It happens. Maybe the proper way is to say the Lakers were the stronger team instead of the better team. But I think you get my point: there is no disputing who was the favorite in that series. There is no disputing that the underdog won that series. My point was that the favorite lost. NOT who executed the X and O better.