and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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Here is Thorpe's opinion from today's chat:
Rich (Sacramento, CA): Thorpe! Love the chats- Knowing our franchise's luck, let's say the Kings pick 4th. Griffin, Rubio, and Hill (maybe) are off the board. Who would you go with?
David Thorpe: I'm growing increasingly convinced that Jrue Holiday is incredibly special. As in top 5 talent in this draft.
***
Now I understand that the talent is there, but he's got several flaws (production/efficiency being primary). He definitely needs another year in school to get real PG experience...his learning curve will be nearly impossible if he declares (ask Javaris Crittenton). Wouldn't be too happy if we took this guy with the #4...but definitely wouldn't mind Holiday @ #23.
Rich (Sacramento, CA): Thorpe! Love the chats- Knowing our franchise's luck, let's say the Kings pick 4th. Griffin, Rubio, and Hill (maybe) are off the board. Who would you go with?
***
Now I understand that the talent is there, but he's got several flaws (production/efficiency being primary). He definitely needs another year in school to get real PG experience...his learning curve will be nearly impossible if he declares (ask Javaris Crittenton). Wouldn't be too happy if we took this guy with the #4...but definitely wouldn't mind Holiday @ #23.
Here is Thorpe's opinion from today's chat:
Rich (Sacramento, CA): Thorpe! Love the chats- Knowing our franchise's luck, let's say the Kings pick 4th. Griffin, Rubio, and Hill (maybe) are off the board. Who would you go with?
David Thorpe: I'm growing increasingly convinced that Jrue Holiday is incredibly special. As in top 5 talent in this draft.
***
Now I understand that the talent is there, but he's got several flaws (production/efficiency being primary). He definitely needs another year in school to get real PG experience...his learning curve will be nearly impossible if he declares (ask Javaris Crittenton). Wouldn't be too happy if we took this guy with the #4...but definitely wouldn't mind Holiday @ #23.
Rich (Sacramento, CA): Thorpe! Love the chats- Knowing our franchise's luck, let's say the Kings pick 4th. Griffin, Rubio, and Hill (maybe) are off the board. Who would you go with?
***
Now I understand that the talent is there, but he's got several flaws (production/efficiency being primary). He definitely needs another year in school to get real PG experience...his learning curve will be nearly impossible if he declares (ask Javaris Crittenton). Wouldn't be too happy if we took this guy with the #4...but definitely wouldn't mind Holiday @ #23.
Thabeet - great shot blocker
Griffin - excellent rebounder, very good finisher
Blair - excellent rebounder
Teague - incredible quickness, very good shooter
Evans - great finisher
With Holiday, I just don't see it. What does he do that is special? He's an ok ball handler, good defender, ok shot maker. I could see Holiday at the very end of the first round or even a second rounder.
Try this on...
God willing the Kings get the #1 pick. Trade the pick for Amare. (make him sign an extension) Trade Hawes to the clipps for Al Thornton and their 1st rounder. Draft Brandon Jennings.
Then the Kings look like...
5. Amare/Need a back up (23 pick or FA sign)
4.JT/Ike Diogu
3.Thornton/Nocioni
2.Martin/Garcia
1.Jennings/Beno
God willing the Kings get the #1 pick. Trade the pick for Amare. (make him sign an extension) Trade Hawes to the clipps for Al Thornton and their 1st rounder. Draft Brandon Jennings.
Then the Kings look like...
5. Amare/Need a back up (23 pick or FA sign)
4.JT/Ike Diogu
3.Thornton/Nocioni
2.Martin/Garcia
1.Jennings/Beno
Holiday all year played out of position. I was hoping he would come back to play at UCLA to show everyone. I have been watching this kid since Highschool and he is VERY VERY underrated in this draft. If you go off of just this year I can see how people would be down on him, but tell any PG they have to play SG and there will be issues and they won't look as productive.
I know he isn't as "pure" as some people would like but he is definitely a PG, and not a SG. When he has the ball he makes things happen, and if we could get him with Houston's pick I would be all for drafting him. But you are right.. The #4 is a bit high for him.... But he does have top 5 raw talent imo.
I think rubio could be simply to slow stay in front of opposing guards and his release is VERY slow. Creating space will be a tall order for rubio. I can see Jennings being a cross between Tony Parker and Agent zero. I just think having 2 below average athletes playing the point will continue to lead to horrible perimeter defense.
How so? He didn't have that much trouble staying in front of CP3, D Williams, and J Kidd last year. Of course those guys got by him on occasion, but they get by every pg in the world. He was defensive player of the year this year in the ACB League. He is not as bad at defense as everyone thinks. And quickness does not make a good defensive player, its more studying your opponent, effort, and working on your defensive footwork.
I don't think creating space will be that much of a problem. He is without question quick enough to get to the hoop, and his ballhandling will only help in that respect. He release is slow, but he can hit the open jumper. But coming down the court and forcing jumpers isn't his game, nor should it be. His strength in ballhandling and vision. He is great at penetrating and creating for others. That is MUCH MORE important for a pg than being able to raise up from 20ft with a hand in your face and hit a jumper. We need a pg to create for others.
I don't think creating space will be that much of a problem. He is without question quick enough to get to the hoop, and his ballhandling will only help in that respect. He release is slow, but he can hit the open jumper. But coming down the court and forcing jumpers isn't his game, nor should it be. His strength in ballhandling and vision. He is great at penetrating and creating for others. That is MUCH MORE important for a pg than being able to raise up from 20ft with a hand in your face and hit a jumper. We need a pg to create for others.
Look, there are many factors involved in defense but lateral quickness and overall athleticism matters quite a bit. Rubio doesn't have very good lateral quickness, so he probabably is not going to be an above average positional defender, but he's got great length, quick hands and good IQ. So he should be a very good team defender. He's kind of like how Kidd is now.
As far as creating space goes, he just needs to become consistent shooting over screens, and he'll be effective. I think he's already one of the best pick and roll PG's in the game today.
As far as creating space goes, he just needs to become consistent shooting over screens, and he'll be effective. I think he's already one of the best pick and roll PG's in the game today.
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Tony Parker is probably the absolute best case scenario for Jennings. He's never going to be a good enough scorer/shooter as Arenas. He's got good tools but he needs to greatly improve his decision making and strength. I think Jennings is a top 4 talent for us in this draft, but he's a big time roll of the dice, and any team would be crazy to pass on Rubio for Jennings.
For the record, I've seen both play and I take Rubio over Jennings defensively. It's not even close IMO.
For the record, I've seen both play and I take Rubio over Jennings defensively. It's not even close IMO.
Rubio to Thompson!!!!! Over and over and over every game. If we get the 2nd pick.
Beno to Griffin!! Maybe once a game if we get number 1.
...I'm almost leaning towards Ricky if we get the first pick. He has his question marks, but I think that he has the potential to really make some of our other players better. It would be a shame if he busts, but considering we got a good young PF, and this draft is 2 players deep...Its fence swinging time.
Also...If we get 3 or 4...I think we should trade down. It woulda been nice if we still had Salmons (who beasted the Cs tonight) or Miller (who's a huge expiring next season) to faciliate a trade UP in the draft but you know...At least we got Noc dog.
Beno to Griffin!! Maybe once a game if we get number 1.
...I'm almost leaning towards Ricky if we get the first pick. He has his question marks, but I think that he has the potential to really make some of our other players better. It would be a shame if he busts, but considering we got a good young PF, and this draft is 2 players deep...Its fence swinging time.
Also...If we get 3 or 4...I think we should trade down. It woulda been nice if we still had Salmons (who beasted the Cs tonight) or Miller (who's a huge expiring next season) to faciliate a trade UP in the draft but you know...At least we got Noc dog.
Jennings has trouble hitting an open shot... and suddenly his ceiling is the next Gilber Arenas? People tend to forget before the horrifying knee injuries Arenas averaged 29 PPG and was poised to break out as the next dominant guard. Jennings would have to improve vastly to have that high a ceiling. Athletically, he doesn't even have one.
My concern with Holliday isn't his numbers, it was his repeated inability to beat his man off the dribble. If you struggle with that at the college level, it's only going to get harder in the pros. I'm a UCLA fan and even when Westbrook was a young knuckleheaded freshman, he would consistently get to the hoop, but struggled with some finishing and decision making. Holliday couldn't even get that far. That's my main concern and I don't think it has to do with playing out of position.
I think you misunderstand what a prospect's ceiling means. It means the absolute highest level a prospect can reach. The best case scenario. So Jennings would need to improve a ton to reach the level of a healthy Gilbert, but his ceiling is already there or higher. He's got a wealth of physical skill and talent. If he has the work ethic, attitude and b-ball IQ to maximize all that talent there's almost no limit to how good he can be.
Arenas did average 29 p/g but he has never shot over 43% in his career. He is a volume scorer and probably better suited as a SG much like Terry is. The Kings are young and need to run. Both of our bigs can run floor very well and they need a pass first PG to run with them.
If we get 1st pick Griffin is as close to a sure thing as anyone in the draft. You select him. This always brings up the point of playing time between Griffin and Thompson. The way I look at it is we will have a very deep frontline. This leaves us with many different looks. Hawes/Thompson, Hawes/Griffin and If we want to run Griffin/Thompson would be fun to watch. Keep in mind all of our back up bigs may be gone next season due to expiring contracts so we will need help on the frontline and Griffin or Thompson is going to be way better as a backup then any guy we pick up for the MLE or with the #23 pick.
It is far easier to pick up a volume scorer at the #23 (Kevin Martin, Barbosa, Josh Howard, John Salmons and many more, all taken #25-#30).
With the #2 pick I would go with Rubio. He is a pass first PG that would fit in well with this fast young Kings team. It is a no brainer. I think most of you agree.
The other dilema is the #3 or #4 pick. Who do we take. I want to start by saying no on Hasheem (or whatever his name is). I've seen him play a handful of times and I am not impressed. There is more to the game to blocking shots. Ben Wallace was undrafted and I believe one of the best defenders of all time. This wasn't because he could block shots. It was his quickness in the post. It Thabeet a half century to get from one end of the court to the other. He has absolutely NO offensive game. At least Deke could run the floor and get back on defense. Are team is built to run weather you like it or not and he just doesn't fit in. He is not the #3 or #4 most talented players in the draft. I would take Jennings, Harden Evans or if you want to go big Hill over Thabeet. Unfortunately I don't watch enough college basketball to determine who is the better out of the one I mentioned but from what I've read the would be all around better than Thabeet.
If we get 1st pick Griffin is as close to a sure thing as anyone in the draft. You select him. This always brings up the point of playing time between Griffin and Thompson. The way I look at it is we will have a very deep frontline. This leaves us with many different looks. Hawes/Thompson, Hawes/Griffin and If we want to run Griffin/Thompson would be fun to watch. Keep in mind all of our back up bigs may be gone next season due to expiring contracts so we will need help on the frontline and Griffin or Thompson is going to be way better as a backup then any guy we pick up for the MLE or with the #23 pick.
It is far easier to pick up a volume scorer at the #23 (Kevin Martin, Barbosa, Josh Howard, John Salmons and many more, all taken #25-#30).
With the #2 pick I would go with Rubio. He is a pass first PG that would fit in well with this fast young Kings team. It is a no brainer. I think most of you agree.
The other dilema is the #3 or #4 pick. Who do we take. I want to start by saying no on Hasheem (or whatever his name is). I've seen him play a handful of times and I am not impressed. There is more to the game to blocking shots. Ben Wallace was undrafted and I believe one of the best defenders of all time. This wasn't because he could block shots. It was his quickness in the post. It Thabeet a half century to get from one end of the court to the other. He has absolutely NO offensive game. At least Deke could run the floor and get back on defense. Are team is built to run weather you like it or not and he just doesn't fit in. He is not the #3 or #4 most talented players in the draft. I would take Jennings, Harden Evans or if you want to go big Hill over Thabeet. Unfortunately I don't watch enough college basketball to determine who is the better out of the one I mentioned but from what I've read the would be all around better than Thabeet.
Well as of right now he hasn't shown great IQ, that's definitely the area he lacks because he has the ball handling, passing, and athleticism. From what I've seen, he doesn't facilitate well in the half court (appears to only be comfortable when he's playing at full throttle), needs to improve his decision making, his shot selection is poor, needs to develop a jump shot (his mechanics will probalby limit him from ever being a great shooter), and he drastically needs to add strength. There are things he can improve on, but there are degrees of improvements that are unrealistic, especially at the PG position. He's not like Arenas, and he's like Parker with his mix of scoring/passing and his speed/quickness with the ball, they don't exactly play the same style game.
We obviously need a complete defensive reboot. Its depressing really. It also means that probably no more than 3 or 4 at most of the current guys can be part of the solution going forward -- altogether they were the worst defensive crew in basketball. Most of them need to be replaced wiht better defenders before we can ever get serious.
