Brandon Jennings, anyone?
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Brandon Jennings has ridiculous skills you can't teach, amazing handles and hops, good length, he can really run a break and a half-court offense. Being a left-hander I think is a plus too. An unorthodox style keeps defenders off balance.
Hi jump shot is a mess, he kicks his leg out and fades. He doesn't look like he has a mid range game. He doesn't appear adept at drawing contact or fouls. And he has a bad playground habit is cradling the ball when he drives to the hoop, which allow defenders to recover, and he shows the ball ALOT one crossover moves, making him prone to getting stripped.
Brandon Jennings is a guy you draft for the future, not next year, what he can become, not the player he is today. I agree with previous post in this thread, we need to hit a HOMERUN in the draft, we need a major star, so I would not have a problem if we take a risk on him, and hope he can be a Chris Paul or Deron Williams in 3-5 years.
Hi jump shot is a mess, he kicks his leg out and fades. He doesn't look like he has a mid range game. He doesn't appear adept at drawing contact or fouls. And he has a bad playground habit is cradling the ball when he drives to the hoop, which allow defenders to recover, and he shows the ball ALOT one crossover moves, making him prone to getting stripped.
Brandon Jennings is a guy you draft for the future, not next year, what he can become, not the player he is today. I agree with previous post in this thread, we need to hit a HOMERUN in the draft, we need a major star, so I would not have a problem if we take a risk on him, and hope he can be a Chris Paul or Deron Williams in 3-5 years.
Technically his athleticism, ball handling, and passing/vision make him a high upside guy, but there are so many things that Jennings lacks that the chances of him getting near that upside is very slim. He's already wasted a year of his development learning practically nothing (that we can tell at this point) in Europe; there are homerun picks and then there are long shots. PG is the most difficult position to develop at because so much of it is cerebral and things that are very hard to learn without it coming natural. As we can see from Jennings is that he's comfortable with the ball in his hands and making decisions on what to do with it on a whim; how many players that have that style at 19 end up being successful all around PG's? On top of that he's going to be developing in the NBA as opposed to college where there will be a shorter leash.
Jennings is so raw (jump shot, IQ, strength/frame, half-court playmaking, decision making) that the likelihood of him significantly improving on those things and becoming a top PG is very unlikely. I'd say he'll be from anywhere in between Telfair to Felton. I want to like Jennings, I was hoping last year that we'd have a shot at him in this draft, but he is way too much of an uncertainty to commit so much time to and effort to.
Jennings is so raw (jump shot, IQ, strength/frame, half-court playmaking, decision making) that the likelihood of him significantly improving on those things and becoming a top PG is very unlikely. I'd say he'll be from anywhere in between Telfair to Felton. I want to like Jennings, I was hoping last year that we'd have a shot at him in this draft, but he is way too much of an uncertainty to commit so much time to and effort to.
Blake Griffin has already had two major knee surgeries. Hasheem Thabeet puts up the best game of his career and then proceeds to get demolished by 6'7" center DeJuan Blair. James Harden turns the ball over 3.5 times per game including an 8 TO game and a 7 TO game this season. Ricky Rubio has never played against any of these other prospects except Jennings (barely) so it's hard to say how he compares. Show me a player in this draft who doesn't have some level of risk attached. Jennings is one of the biggest risks, for sure. But he also has one of the highest upsides. He's not going to turn a team around over night, but if you invest time in developing his raw tools he could be an All-Star player. What convinces me Jennings is a risk worth taking is that I believe he wants it more than any of these other guys. He's got the demeanor of a professional basketball player -- someone who will not stop working until they're the best in the game. Very few guys have that kind of determination.
Certainly Jennings has a high upside, but you can't look at upside in a vacuum because it's irrelevant if it's not a realistic upside. Technically Thabeet has the highest upside because he's got the two things that are impossible to teach in size and athleticism. You are sure that he has the work ethic and drive to learn the PG qualities that he lacks, okay but where is the glaring evidence of this? How has he improved since a year ago? If he were such a self-motivated guy, we would probably see significant improvement from him.
The problem with taking on such a raw PG is that they're going to take a long time to develop and the team will really be at the mercy of his development because in order to make the proper commitment to him they're going to have to throw him into the fire and be patient. Which means if he doesn't pan out they've wasted opportunities over that evaluation period to find perhaps better options at PG.
I'm open to Jennings if we fall in the lottery a bit (I'm talking 4th-6th here) and he shows improvements in his workouts, but at this point he's an unnecessary gamble.
The problem with taking on such a raw PG is that they're going to take a long time to develop and the team will really be at the mercy of his development because in order to make the proper commitment to him they're going to have to throw him into the fire and be patient. Which means if he doesn't pan out they've wasted opportunities over that evaluation period to find perhaps better options at PG.
I'm open to Jennings if we fall in the lottery a bit (I'm talking 4th-6th here) and he shows improvements in his workouts, but at this point he's an unnecessary gamble.
No, I am saying he needs some time to develop, just like any other prospect in sports except very special ones like (for example) LeBron in NBA or Ovvy in NHL.
If you go to Spain, Russia or Italy, you have to contribute right away. There is no room for mistake. Fans wanna wins and titles and they do not care whether you are a young unproven guy from California or well-versed veteran. Every game is important and you meet tough competition almost each and every game. And if Brandon's agents think that Euroleague slaughterhouse is the best place to develop his client, they are totally wrong. I guess they got it now.
On the other hand, you can go to Israel or Germany to play for a very average team where you can get 25 minutes, respect and love from coaches and fans. You still play against decent players, you learn a lot of new things, earn some Euros, learn how to be a professional (pro-discipline and handle money for instance) and where you do not have to play against CSKA or any other Euroleague monster.
It is just unfair to judge Brandon by his performance against pro-competition (sometimes almost NBA good) when we judge his buddies by playing each other. Plus, small FIBA zone hurts Brandon fast style of play big time. Think of Parker - he is way more efficient in NBA basketball. Only, please, do not get me wrong, I do not say that he is new Parker or he is the new star, or anything like that. All I am saying is that going to Europe is not a mistake; going to a wrong league or situation is the one.
If you go to Spain, Russia or Italy, you have to contribute right away. There is no room for mistake. Fans wanna wins and titles and they do not care whether you are a young unproven guy from California or well-versed veteran. Every game is important and you meet tough competition almost each and every game. And if Brandon's agents think that Euroleague slaughterhouse is the best place to develop his client, they are totally wrong. I guess they got it now.
On the other hand, you can go to Israel or Germany to play for a very average team where you can get 25 minutes, respect and love from coaches and fans. You still play against decent players, you learn a lot of new things, earn some Euros, learn how to be a professional (pro-discipline and handle money for instance) and where you do not have to play against CSKA or any other Euroleague monster.
It is just unfair to judge Brandon by his performance against pro-competition (sometimes almost NBA good) when we judge his buddies by playing each other. Plus, small FIBA zone hurts Brandon fast style of play big time. Think of Parker - he is way more efficient in NBA basketball. Only, please, do not get me wrong, I do not say that he is new Parker or he is the new star, or anything like that. All I am saying is that going to Europe is not a mistake; going to a wrong league or situation is the one.
Okay, I see what you're saying. I agree that he went to the wrong league--but his agent should've known better. I guess we have to see how workouts go. I still don't see a future All-Star ala Chris Paul, especially since his understanding of the game isn't where Chris Paul's was at the same age. For now, I see a likely change-of-pace guy with a competent starter ceiling and an NBDL floor.
I couldnt have said it better. I have been trying to preach this in my wishes for teague. I think teague has more star potential than rubio or any other PG. Maybe if I watched more of Jennings I would say he has more star potential than Teague (I havent seen enough to give a fair analysis), but either way I am on the same page, I want us to make a splash, we dont have much to lose. If we are picking top 5 we need to be aiming for a franchise or all-star calibur player, not a good solid player. IF we impliment this rebuild process correctly, we're not going to have too many more chances at this top 5 pick thing after the next year or two so i think we should take advantage of it and aim for the fences. Then again if our picks turn into busts and our management suddenly goes to crap then we'll be like the clips/grizz in the lottery every year, but thats a risk I'm willing to take.
There's a difference in a calculated risk with someone like Teauge, and a crapshoot like Jennings. I repeat, the last time Jennings was give full reins of an offense was in high school. Has there been any successful translation from HS game to NBA? Big men, yes, but you just cannot make that leap so quickly if you're meant to run the offense. He also, did not at all raise his stock while in Europe. He whined, pouted, and alienated himself. It's a difficult transition for a grown man, much less a teenager. However, this is what he wanted, and all he's proven to me is that he can't cut it mentally. If he had CP3's game and his own mentality, i'd say he's a risk willing to take. But people want to take him based on sheer athleticism alone? Suicide.
Seems from all the posts above that Jennings is more an AI type player, shoot first, last and in-between and is definitely a ball hog. All I read is his scoring nothing about his ball handling, passing and defense. Then in one post that passing and defense are his worst attributes.
A PG needs to run the team, setup the plays and cause problems for the defense. Don't see any of those comments about Jennings. And if his grades are way down and he only wants to play pro-ball, then his attitude does not seem to be a "team" attitude at all. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him fall to 2nd round if he tries to come out as most all comments seem to be about his scoring not about his leadership or defensive skills.
Nope. Don't want him. Would rather get a true PG who is Soph or Junior or Senior on major college team who exhibits the skills to lead a team and maybe become a star in time in the NBA. Example: Steve Nash was the 15th pick in the 1996 draft out of a small college, Santa Clara (also Kurt Rambis).
A PG needs to run the team, setup the plays and cause problems for the defense. Don't see any of those comments about Jennings. And if his grades are way down and he only wants to play pro-ball, then his attitude does not seem to be a "team" attitude at all. Wouldn't be at all surprised to see him fall to 2nd round if he tries to come out as most all comments seem to be about his scoring not about his leadership or defensive skills.
Nope. Don't want him. Would rather get a true PG who is Soph or Junior or Senior on major college team who exhibits the skills to lead a team and maybe become a star in time in the NBA. Example: Steve Nash was the 15th pick in the 1996 draft out of a small college, Santa Clara (also Kurt Rambis).
A lot of of misconceptions in this post.
-First off, he's not falling into the second round. Even if things go really bad for him, he's top 20 at worst in this draft just on his potential alone.
-He's a very good ball handler, and has good PG skills in his passing and vision.
-While he can get tunnel vision at times at playing the point, I wouldn't call him a selfish player, at least not yet. I'd classify him more as unpredictable than a ball hog. He's always going to be a ball dominant player, but technically so is Chris Paul.
-His ball handling, vision, passing, and athleticism are really the strengths in his game. He's very good facilitating in transition.
-It's actually his scoring ability that needs to improve. He lacks a reliable jump shot, a midrange game, and his finishing ability needs polish (very good at getting to the basket but sometimes comes in a little to wild, and needs to develop some kind of floater/tear drop shot). Definitely needs to get stronger. Needs to improve his halfcourt playmaking, decision making, shot selection, and his ability to break down defenses. Leadership intangibles are unknown, his role in Italy is not a very significant one, so in this category I'd say he's untested.
-From what I've seen he's not a lazy defender or anything. He gives good effort, but needs to develop better IQ on that side. He's got good length, lateral quickness, and get into the passing lanes well for steals. His lack of strength results of in getting caught up in screens. He's not much of a defender at this point and he probably won't ever be a huge difference maker there because of his frame, but he lacks in areas that a lot of 19 year olds lack.
-A "bad" attitude? I don't know exactly what you're basing this off of.
-In Jennings' case, it's hard to make judgments on him because he is really so untested in so many things. We have his HS track record and playing in Europe in limited role.
-Now, I'm not advocating for us to pick him, but you are definitely not being fair in your criticisms of him, especially when you seem to be basing it soley off of posts here.
-First off, he's not falling into the second round. Even if things go really bad for him, he's top 20 at worst in this draft just on his potential alone.
-He's a very good ball handler, and has good PG skills in his passing and vision.
-While he can get tunnel vision at times at playing the point, I wouldn't call him a selfish player, at least not yet. I'd classify him more as unpredictable than a ball hog. He's always going to be a ball dominant player, but technically so is Chris Paul.
-His ball handling, vision, passing, and athleticism are really the strengths in his game. He's very good facilitating in transition.
-It's actually his scoring ability that needs to improve. He lacks a reliable jump shot, a midrange game, and his finishing ability needs polish (very good at getting to the basket but sometimes comes in a little to wild, and needs to develop some kind of floater/tear drop shot). Definitely needs to get stronger. Needs to improve his halfcourt playmaking, decision making, shot selection, and his ability to break down defenses. Leadership intangibles are unknown, his role in Italy is not a very significant one, so in this category I'd say he's untested.
-From what I've seen he's not a lazy defender or anything. He gives good effort, but needs to develop better IQ on that side. He's got good length, lateral quickness, and get into the passing lanes well for steals. His lack of strength results of in getting caught up in screens. He's not much of a defender at this point and he probably won't ever be a huge difference maker there because of his frame, but he lacks in areas that a lot of 19 year olds lack.
-A "bad" attitude? I don't know exactly what you're basing this off of.
-In Jennings' case, it's hard to make judgments on him because he is really so untested in so many things. We have his HS track record and playing in Europe in limited role.
-Now, I'm not advocating for us to pick him, but you are definitely not being fair in your criticisms of him, especially when you seem to be basing it soley off of posts here.
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i would be cool with jennings if it were part of a trade on draft day. if rubio doesnt enter this year and we get the #2-4 pick i wouldnt mind trading our pick and some dead weight for jennings. the only player i want to draft with our pick is rubio. i like what i hear about jennings but he will need time to adjust more than most players in this draft because he hasnt gotten any real playing time in europe.
Sorry I didn't reply to this before. It's pretty self-evident though that I don't have any glaring evidence of his competitive drive or work ethic. Nor could I have. That's really just the same judgment call every GM makes when they take a chance on a young player. For me, I look at his high school career (won numerous player of the year awards, all-time season scoring leader at Oak Hill, 38.7 points, 11.5 assists, 8.1 rebounds and 13.0 steals per game in his senior season), I look at the way he carries himself on and off the court (oozes confidence, maybe a little cocky), I look at who his friends are (numerous NBA players) and I see a hard working kid who's risen to the top at every level of basketball he's been a part of. His goal in Europe wasn't to take over the league, it was to earn a paycheck and wait until he was eligible for the draft. It's true he's got a lot to learn, but he's just as ready for the league right now as OJ Mayo was. I think a lot of people are overstating the risk involved with Jennings because they just haven't seen him play. When you watch him play, I think it's pretty apparent that he has "can't miss" talent and he'll continue to get better. In my experience, players who flat out dominate in high school the way Jennings did don't get there without a lot of hard work and that becomes apparent when that same work ethic pushes them to keep working until they become stars in the NBA.
Adam Yauch from the Bestie Boys made a movie about Rucker Park called "Gunnin For That #1 Spot" last year which features Jennings along with Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Jerryd Bayless, Memphis' Tyreke Evans, Duke's Kyle Singler, Lance Stephenson (has yet to pick a college) and our own Donte Greene. If you want to see Jennings in action, that's a good place to look.
Adam Yauch from the Bestie Boys made a movie about Rucker Park called "Gunnin For That #1 Spot" last year which features Jennings along with Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Jerryd Bayless, Memphis' Tyreke Evans, Duke's Kyle Singler, Lance Stephenson (has yet to pick a college) and our own Donte Greene. If you want to see Jennings in action, that's a good place to look.
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I see Jennings as an Allen Iverson with more handles, more hops(better dunker), better vision, but with a somewhat odd stroke in his perimeter game. He may need to gain some weight but this guy is still 18 and will eventually gain some pounds and may even have some room for growth spurt (like JT did). He is NOT A BALLHOG. He much proven to play the PG compared to Teague. Even in EU he is playing at PG most of the time and only a few ocassions at SG.
Jennings is quick and his defense is most productive at getting steals. He will be the second best passing PG in this draft if Rubio will declare. People are often misguided that he is too selfish of a player by moving to Europe but it was more of finding better financial status for his family rather than looking down on the college competition.
European game is mostly a team basketball and you will seldom see somebody filling up those stat sheets game by game. This may have affected the perception of most people about Jennings actual capability. But if you look closely at his game, he still has the speed, the vision and star potential that has been with him since his high school years. I would even say that he has matured his game now.
I could not even see any PG at college level declaring for this draft that will outplay Jennings. He even outplayed Rubio on their first meeting (though Rubio may still be nagging injury during that time).
http://www.brandonjennings.net/category/videos/
Jennings is quick and his defense is most productive at getting steals. He will be the second best passing PG in this draft if Rubio will declare. People are often misguided that he is too selfish of a player by moving to Europe but it was more of finding better financial status for his family rather than looking down on the college competition.
European game is mostly a team basketball and you will seldom see somebody filling up those stat sheets game by game. This may have affected the perception of most people about Jennings actual capability. But if you look closely at his game, he still has the speed, the vision and star potential that has been with him since his high school years. I would even say that he has matured his game now.
I could not even see any PG at college level declaring for this draft that will outplay Jennings. He even outplayed Rubio on their first meeting (though Rubio may still be nagging injury during that time).
http://www.brandonjennings.net/category/videos/
The questions about Jennings rarely revolve around his talent (which looked exceptional coming ourt of high shcool). I think its much more a question of all the red flags about his brains and decisionmaking -- he's practically got dumb, selfish, cocky, undisciplined streetballer tattooed right across the forehead, and so I suspect the question that every team in the lottery is asking themselves is is this kid even remotely mature enough to play organized basketball and run our professional basketball team?
I agree that's where the debate should be centered, but I have seen a lot of questions about Jenning's talent in various topics which makes me wonder where people are getting their information or what they're watching. Teague, for example, is having a nice season but he's not even in the same league as Jennings if we're talking about pure talent. Rubio has excellent court vision and the cachet of being the chosen one for an entire country, but I haven't seen him do anything with a basketball that shocks or amazes me and Jennings has done that every single time I've seen him play.
I'm a big AI fan since his days as a 76ers. He does have one of the best handles in the NBA but he mostly use just to get a shot. But Jennings on the other hand uses crazy handles not just to get to the rim but with his passing skills as well.
We're entitled to our own opinion here. And I'm not kidding you when I say Jennings has better handles than AI. That's just how impressed I am with this kid. May not be a #1 pick material but will truly be worthy pick with the top 5, considering our needs in PG position.
We're entitled to our own opinion here. And I'm not kidding you when I say Jennings has better handles than AI. That's just how impressed I am with this kid. May not be a #1 pick material but will truly be worthy pick with the top 5, considering our needs in PG position.
Iverson with better handles? No, I don't think so. He has definitely has plus handles, but better than one of the all-time greatest ball handlers in NBA history? I've only seen him play 4 or 5 times, but that's something you don't miss in a player. If he had handles that good he'd be getting to the rack much easier than he has been.
There's no doubt coming out of HS he was a top if not the top HS player out of his class, but putting up video game numbers in HS is no guarantee of success, many players do. Even if he didn't expect on learning much in Euro there are still things he could have done on his own to improve his game. I've seen him play, and he's shown me he has very good raw ability, but he's simply not as polished as Mayo was, that's silly. Mayo already had a filled out frame, all pro scoring moves, very professional and cool demeanor, and a very good jump shot. I would never go as far as to say he's a "can't miss" talent. There are some things, even in a foreign environment like with Jennings that show if he's really a can't miss, that he has not shown.
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Just to back up KingsCitizen here, I think Jennings' handle is as good as Iverson's. He's got the best handle I've ever seen. It might even be better than AI. And it isn't like nobody has seen him play. You may not have seen him play, but I just told you he's featured in a DVD. Plenty of people have seen this kid play.
I work at USC. I watched almost all of Mayo's games last year. Jennings is just as ready for the NBA as Mayo was. They are different players -- Mayo's got a polished jumpshot and a lot of moves to free him up to shoot over people. Jennings has crazy good handles and excellent vision for setting up teammates. But they're both elite at what they can do and their matchups in high school were pretty even. Jennings would have benefited from a year at USC learning to play defense under Tim Floyd the way Mayo did, but other than that they have similar intensity and talent.
I work at USC. I watched almost all of Mayo's games last year. Jennings is just as ready for the NBA as Mayo was. They are different players -- Mayo's got a polished jumpshot and a lot of moves to free him up to shoot over people. Jennings has crazy good handles and excellent vision for setting up teammates. But they're both elite at what they can do and their matchups in high school were pretty even. Jennings would have benefited from a year at USC learning to play defense under Tim Floyd the way Mayo did, but other than that they have similar intensity and talent.
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