and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
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Re: Collison
I wouldn't exactly say Petrie has a history of reaching for need in the draft. Off the top of my head I'm counting 12 first-rounders for Petrie since he arrived in Sac and outside of J-Will I'm not sure he's reached for need once. At the time some seemed to think he reached for Thompson, but I don't think that's the consensus view now. Anybody else where he reached for need?
I wouldn't exactly say Petrie has a history of reaching for need in the draft. Off the top of my head I'm counting 12 first-rounders for Petrie since he arrived in Sac and outside of J-Will I'm not sure he's reached for need once. At the time some seemed to think he reached for Thompson, but I don't think that's the consensus view now. Anybody else where he reached for need?
First of all, the Kings didn't have many high picks so there were few opportunities for a "reach."
But Brian Grant (thought to be barely a 2nd rounder) and Jason Williams were both giant reaches. And guess what? They also happen to be the two highest picks ever during Petrie's reign.
So whenever Petrie had a top 8 pick in Sacramento, he always reached. That's a fact. Not saying he will reach again. But both times he had a single digit pick he reached for need.
But Brian Grant (thought to be barely a 2nd rounder) and Jason Williams were both giant reaches. And guess what? They also happen to be the two highest picks ever during Petrie's reign.
So whenever Petrie had a top 8 pick in Sacramento, he always reached. That's a fact. Not saying he will reach again. But both times he had a single digit pick he reached for need.
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I thought he might have reached a bit with Douby being that there were more pure PGs left on the board when he was picked.
Anyhow, you were right about Grant, and Williams. Both of them turned out pretty good. Grant had injury issues, but he was a solid pick. If Petrie reaches this year though I have a feeling it will be for a PG and not a big man. Maybe with Houston's pick, but not our own.
Anyhow, you were right about Grant, and Williams. Both of them turned out pretty good. Grant had injury issues, but he was a solid pick. If Petrie reaches this year though I have a feeling it will be for a PG and not a big man. Maybe with Houston's pick, but not our own.
Uh, well first off he has a brain. He can handle the ball under pressure, pass, and change directions much better than Smush can. Also, he can actually stay in front of his man defensively. They're both similar as far as leaping and size goes I guess, but other than that I don't see the comparison at all. Even in raw ability Holiday blows Smush out of the water.
Add attidute to all of this. Aside from beating out Smush in natural ability and skills, Smush had the talent to be a NBA player but his had one of the worst attitudes in the league. Ask any Lakers fan about him and they cringe. Smush was not a team player. Whereas, Jrue is sacrificing his own game and stats for the good of the team.
I don't see how Brian Grant can be construed as a reach at all, much less a giant reach. If you look at all of the players drafted after Grant, only one player (Eddie Jones) had more career win shares than Grant and only three other players were particularly close. Basically, Grant had the second-best career among players available at his draft slot. It doesn't matter where Grant was projected to be drafted, Petrie got that one right.
I don't think they meant Petrie made a poor choice. Only that he took someone who the draft experts projected to go much lower. Although nowadays, draft experts seem to be much more connected and have a more accurate read on where players are likely to go, so I am not sure Grant's projection means nearly as much as Thompson's for example.
Let's compare apple to apple shall we? I'm going by general accepted sentiment at the time before the draft.
Grant's career may look acceptable after the fact, but does not negate the fact that he was one of the biggest reach in draft history. Even Grant admitted it. He had no idea he was even going to be drafted and had his agent trying to line up a gig in Europe.
I'm by no means saying Grant is a bad pick. I think I'd state it as: a reach that turned out to be the right choice. Well, I think Jalen Rose or Eddie Jones would've been better choice, but you get the idea.
Drafting Collison at top 5 is a reach. Now, if you want to argue that Collison is in fact deserving of being drafted that high, fine; but that's altogether a different argument than Petrie's past action of reaching for players that at the time deemed way too high in order to fill a need.
Speaking of the 94 draft, if there's a do-over Petrie would've picked Eddie Jones or Jalen Rose ahead of Brian Grant, imo. Even after the fact, I think Grant is still a reach, just not as big of one as initially thought. Similar to Jason Williams. If there's a do-over, Dirk or Pierce would be a King.
Grant's career may look acceptable after the fact, but does not negate the fact that he was one of the biggest reach in draft history. Even Grant admitted it. He had no idea he was even going to be drafted and had his agent trying to line up a gig in Europe.
I'm by no means saying Grant is a bad pick. I think I'd state it as: a reach that turned out to be the right choice. Well, I think Jalen Rose or Eddie Jones would've been better choice, but you get the idea.
Drafting Collison at top 5 is a reach. Now, if you want to argue that Collison is in fact deserving of being drafted that high, fine; but that's altogether a different argument than Petrie's past action of reaching for players that at the time deemed way too high in order to fill a need.
Speaking of the 94 draft, if there's a do-over Petrie would've picked Eddie Jones or Jalen Rose ahead of Brian Grant, imo. Even after the fact, I think Grant is still a reach, just not as big of one as initially thought. Similar to Jason Williams. If there's a do-over, Dirk or Pierce would be a King.
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I'm thinking of Smush Parker during his contract year and not the walking zombie that he turned into after he inked a deal. I'm not saying Holiday is another Smush, but I am saying his current ability, as a teenager, is comparable to Smush as a young vet, and that I like to see more of Holiday actually doing the things that some of you projected he could.
No you got me wrong, I was thinking about Smush during his Laker tenure and he was nothing like Holiday. The extent of Smush's offensive game there was sometimes walking the ball up the backcourt, set 3's, and the occasional straight drive to the basket. No matter what point in Parker's career, even a 19 year old Holiday still outdoes him in many categories.
Clearly we are using different definitions of "reach". You do not take into account the result when considering a pick a "reach", I do.
By the way, I was not paying attention to the NBA draft back in 1994, so I didn't realize that Grant was a considered a borderline second rounder. In some ways that's actually comforting to me. At the 8th pick there were three pretty good players left and Petrie not only found one, but found the one others were sleeping on.
I don't know whether Collison is deserving of top 5. Obviously his draft stock right now does not reflect that, but that may change over the season. My position is this: if Collison is projected to go 10-15 (just my guess as to where his projections will end up), and Petrie takes him with a #4, I will judge the pick based on the results rather than the projections.
By the way, I was not paying attention to the NBA draft back in 1994, so I didn't realize that Grant was a considered a borderline second rounder. In some ways that's actually comforting to me. At the 8th pick there were three pretty good players left and Petrie not only found one, but found the one others were sleeping on.
I don't know whether Collison is deserving of top 5. Obviously his draft stock right now does not reflect that, but that may change over the season. My position is this: if Collison is projected to go 10-15 (just my guess as to where his projections will end up), and Petrie takes him with a #4, I will judge the pick based on the results rather than the projections.
In that case we're talking about different things because I'm not judging the pick at all, I was merely saying Petrie does reach; but you're talking about actually judging a pick. For a while it sounded like you disagree that Petrie reaches, but I guess that's not your point at all. So basically we were just talking thru each other.
If we get a pick between 3-5...
...I'm on the Jordan Hill Bandwagon! Dude's super athletic, has legit PF size...Is a great rebounder, and better shot blocker then Griffin.
None of the PGs seem that elite, and I'm sure we'll be in the Rubio sweepstakes next season if he declares for the 2010 draft.
Hawes/Thompson/Hill is a great young frontcourt going foward.
...I'm on the Jordan Hill Bandwagon! Dude's super athletic, has legit PF size...Is a great rebounder, and better shot blocker then Griffin.
None of the PGs seem that elite, and I'm sure we'll be in the Rubio sweepstakes next season if he declares for the 2010 draft.
Hawes/Thompson/Hill is a great young frontcourt going foward.
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I think Rubio will decide to enter the draft despite what we have been hearing lately. He is a top three pick this year, why would he gamble that by staying in europe another year?
If Im right, I think we HAVE to go for him. He has star potential and thats something you cant say about too many players in this draft. On top of this we need a point guard, and on top of that europeon players dont seem to care where they go ( this is a reference to the problem sacramento has bringing in top tier free agents )
If Im right, I think we HAVE to go for him. He has star potential and thats something you cant say about too many players in this draft. On top of this we need a point guard, and on top of that europeon players dont seem to care where they go ( this is a reference to the problem sacramento has bringing in top tier free agents )