Grades v. Hornets 12/20

Coach Natt's grade through his first 4 games?

  • A

    Votes: 1 1.7%
  • B

    Votes: 20 33.3%
  • C

    Votes: 22 36.7%
  • D

    Votes: 9 15.0%
  • F

    Votes: 8 13.3%

  • Total voters
    60
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Hello? Hello? Anybody out there? I am predicting echoes on these threads pretty soon. 7-21 now, but competed and still not a bad enough outing to particularly justify a theme. But who knows, maybe I will do one anyway: Christmas Around The League. See? Not about pretty girls at all. Nope. Not a bit. Very er, spiritual and stuff.

As an aside, record required from this point to win 48 and maybe snag that #8 seed? 41-13. Whadya think?

Garcia ( B- ) -- was scoring from the outside in the early going as the Hornets wings kept leaving him open for whatever reason, racked up a lot of foouls in the third, inclusind stupidly picking up his 5th trying to block a Paul shot in the 3rd quarter. Note to Kenny Natt: there are some cerebral players you can leave out there with 5 fouls in the third confident that they won't get a 5th unless somebody basicaly cheats and flops into them. Cisco ain't one of them. Never did much beyond shoot this time and yet still easily outperformed the Hornets wings across from him, largely because they were completely miserable and did everything possible to lose the game for the Hornets -- Butler and Brown started and combined for 48 minutes, 6pts on 1-13 shooting (including 0-8 on open three pointers). Note: this soccer player grimace and flop and fake an injury once a quarter thing has to stop. Every single game it seems the announcers are going to have to say 2 or 3 times oh, and Cisco looks hurt, hope he's ok, etc. etc., and I am sitting there watching and saying to the TV, shut up. Of course he's ok. Its like watching Horry back in his prime. Boy who cried wolf syndrome.

How they celebrate the holiday in Atlanta

Hawes ( C ) -- this was an interesting one. Got off to fast start in full attack mode and it was really the Spencer you want to see int he future -- popped in ajumpoer, then bang bang down inside just taking it right at Chandler, made a good pass -- dominated play for about the first 6 minutes. But then something went wrong, and I cna almost trace it to a play where Spencer had the ball up on the angle near the 3pt line, got doubled, and yet rather blatantly looked off and ignored Salmons standing wide open in the corner (John had zero points at the time). John was not happy, you could read it in the body language immediately, and he said something to Spencer at the next time out as they were walking off. Always hard to tell with Spencer because he's still got that tough guy strut you always think is so cool when you are 18 and are embarrassed about later, but it did not look like he wanted to hear it. In fqact in general; it looked like Specner was trying to prove hmself, then got a little full of himself and things started getting ragfged with him holding the ball too long and trying to do too much. It was very interesting to watch. And that was about that -- do not know whether Spencer lost his edge, whether the coach went away from him, whether the vets froze him out or what, but Spenver rarely even saw the ball for the rest of the game and didn't do much else either. Had a little microburst at the end of the third quarter, but that was it on his way to a measely 8pt 6reb outing. That start was dynamic though and looked like he had it all figured out. What went wrong therafter was as I said interesting.

In Cleveland Santa is a lucky dog. Literally.

Miller ( B ) -- was careful not to exert himself before half other than a couple of standstill jumpers, but came back with a solid second half in which he considerably outplayed David West (his man). The "struggling" Hornets now have the second best record in the West, but part of the reason they aren't scaring anybody is because Westhas been soft this season, and Brad kind of exposed it, not only wining the board battle (West hasn't rebounded all year), but even finally finding a player he could disrupt defensively. Brad did spend an inordinate amount of time falling down in the second half, as maybe somebody on the sidelines finally said something to him about the excessive whining to the refs, and he just thought he'd flop instead to get the sympathy. Only cost us once that I can recall where he could not get back on defense, but unless he's got a balance disorder it still looked silly.

See, because the hats make it like Christmas and stuff in Houston. (actually wanted to find one of thier candystriped leggings from a few nights back against us, but no suh luck).

Salmons ( A- ) -- finished with a pretty big night given how slow a start he got off to. It was a scoreless first quarter, and he was maybe not happy about it. The ball was going through others and the Hornets were paying early attention with some quick doubles. Took him a long long time to do anything at all, but when he did it was with an explosive pop that singlehandedly turned the game around. Down 10 in the final minutes of the first half, John suddenly pops up with one three, then another, then a drive and dish to Cisco for the open three, and then finishes the run with a layup. A quick points for him, and 11 of a 14-0 streak by us directly attributable to him. Was involved throughout the second half a our only answer to Paul (and when you have John Salmons an they have Chris Paul it will explian the loss right there). Was even seting a lot of people up on the night. The Hornets largely quit the doubling, but John was getting a lot of the points tonight right in the faces of his defenders, including good ones. He squared up Posey and canned a three right over him to close the third (to be fair Posey was on a bum ankle). Given how he's abused their swingmen this year, still think we should trade him to the Hornets and hold their sensitive parts to the fire on the price.

The Automotion Elves in Detroit
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Jackson ( C+ ) -- played a solid first half against the man he used to backup in New Orleans and was continuing to hurt the Hornets with big shots (he was one of the reasons we beat them the first time too -- can still find enough to play well in these vengeance/homecoming type games). Waded inside in classic Bobby fashion as well, and at 6'0" tall outfought the big guys for boards. Second half was another story as Paul really cranked it up and we had no answer. Not only could Bobby not stay in front of him, but he was making the same mistake a number o fhis teammates were -- carrying a life dribble toward Paul, who has about the quickest hands in the business. And predictably he quickly relieved them of said dribble on his way to 8 steals and a threatened triple double. Bobby tried to come up with a few more big shots down the stretch, but no go.

Just the hat again in Memphis. They aren't even trying.

Brown ( C+ ) -- little off the bench offensively, but did distribute the ball around. Had predictable trouble on defense and was racking up fouls at a prodigous rate. Nice ot see Natt get the rotation off the ebnch right -- Thompson, Brown, Greene were the first three. Not so nice to again see an old guy (Jackson) play 3/4 of the game while the young guy played mopup.

Hey, the climate sucks in Miami and its too damn hot for full Santa outfits anyway, right?

Thompson ( B ) -- much better game this time out -- the hustle boarding was well suited against the Hornets, who just have not gotten much rebounding out of their bigs this season. And Hilton Armstrong, who Jason was matched up against for much of the time, apparently never is going to get a clue. Jason is still having problems with slow recognition of double teams, and the turnovers and fouls continued to plague him. But we held them to one and out during his minutes with his glasswork.

And see? Isn't that sweet? They brought gifts!

Greene ( B- ) -- woohoo -- was a beneficiary of the newfound use the young guys off the bench mentality. Back into nromal semi-rotation minutes )even if it was just because of Beno and Kevin being out), and played pretty well in the first half. Hit a three, had a nice quick dunk, competed on defense (wihtout necessairly being that effective). Less after half, and I stil would like to see him do soemthing other than just score -- 0-rebs 0ast again in 18minutes. But still another game where he was looking more comfortbale out there. A future star? Who knows. But looks to have maybe moved beyond some of the extreme wide eyed rookie stuff.

Orlando style -- see the difference? They are legitimately trying.

Moore ( C- ) -- was backed down to being the #4 big off the bench, but came in and stayed in as he was part of the frontcourt during our run to get back into it in the second quarter. Not that he did anything himslef again of course. 0pts 1 reb, and actually was completely forgotten about after half. Just the first half minutes.

Douby ( INC ) -- in for just a few minutes in the first half, did nothing
 
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bajaden

Hall of Famer
#5
I enjoyed watching the game. It was a game we wern't suspposed to win and we didn't. I thought the team was very competitive through the first half. Second half, not so good. N.O's really picked up their defense in the second half and the Kings simply couldn't adjust to it.

I thought they played hard for the most part and the youngsters got some minutes. When one watches Paul, the contrast between him and the Kings impersonations is startling. It does nothing to convince me that were not in dire need of an upgrade. ( I love double negatives ).
 
#6
Anyone want to provide a summery for me? This is probably the first time in 3-4 years I haven't even made an attempt to catch a part of the game. Went to the movies instead.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#7
win 48 and maybe snag the #8? 48 wins this year will get you #7 at worst. This isn't 07-08 anymore.

The #8 seed right now is on a 48 game pace (Utah, and that's without Boozer for much fo the season). Its not too far form 07-08
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#8
Hello? Hello? Anybody out there? I am predicting echoes on these threads pretty soon. 7-21 now, but competed and still not a bad enough outing to particularly justify a theme. But who knows, maybe I will do one anyway. have an idea. Not sure if it will work or not.
I'm out here... and anxious to see the grades as I set the DVR for the wrong freaking channel and got home too late to watch the game.

As an aside, record required from this point to win 48 and maybe snag that #8 seed? 41-13. Whadya think?
I think the odds of that happening are about the same as me winning the lotto (without buying a ticket).

:)
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#9
Anyone want to provide a summery for me? This is probably the first time in 3-4 years I haven't even made an attempt to catch a part of the game. Went to the movies instead.
The Kings played well. Rarely overdribbled, kept turnovers relatively low, didn't play Miki a heck of a lot. They just got outplayed by a more talented team. The difference maker was Paul. Take Paul away from that team and the Kings probably would have won.
 
#11
Yeah, with Coach Natt, I see them playing rather playing well and competitive. Even thought we lost, we were still in many of the four games, except the one in Portland, though. Really sad to see so many injuries limited this team down. I honestly believe if we had this team fully healthy, and probably had Coach Natt in the beginning, I believe we would be in the sixth or seventh spott. I just guess I am optimistic...:D
 
#13
A Much Much Better Night.

I mentioned in the post-Rocket's thread that I would apologize for being so hard on Kenny Natt if he did in fact play the Kids meaningful minutes during the Hornet's game and not continue what was looking to be his new rotation.

It wasn't perfect, but it was enough. So...

Sorry for being so hard on you Kenny.

Now on to the game:

I was very happy to see the team try to get the ball into Spencer's hands in the post at the start of the game. It's always frustrating to watch him fight for position, especially against a smaller man, and not get the ball. (Though in today's game he wasn't going up against a smaller man in Chandler.)
He looked really good early on, but then about two-thirds way through the 1st quarter really lost his rhythm. Later in the game the team was not getting the ball to him when he worked for good position, and you could tell he was frustrated. He mentioned earlier that he's tried to improve his game so that if his shot is not falling he's getting it done in other areas. It seemed in this one that he really wanted to put all his energy into taking good shots which would go down, and it seemed as if some of his other potential contributions suffered for it. His boardwork was not very good tonight, and he ended up with only one assist and no blocked shots. So a fairly poor game for him, but the good thing was that he didn't shoot (and miss) as many as he has in the past few games.
One thing I was really happy about. He passed up a number of potential 3-point shots. He took one, which I think he was forced to take because the shotclock was running down, but for the most part, there were a couple of times he was in a situation where he would have taken the 3-point shot earlier in the season. I'm pleased to see that most of his shots were coming either in the post, or wide-open 15-18 footers.


I really do like seeing Jason be aggressive on the offensive end. He has got to get better at recognizing the doubleteam coming (especially once he puts the ball on the floor), but I'm happy to see the team try to get him the ball and to watch him try to make something of it. We just need to be patient with him, and hopefully he'll be very good in that area in 2+ years.
He's also shown that he can hit that 15-18 footer, so I wouldn't mind seeing him set up a bit more for that shot. It would be fantastic if that could become a staple of his, so he could pick-n-roll or pick-n-pop depending on what the defensive gives him. He does need to get better at setting solid picks however.
It was also great seeing his hustle on the boards. He out-hustled everyone in a Hornet's jersey, and beat Tyson Chandler on the boards tonight.

It was a huge relief to see Donte Greene get minutes in this game. He didn't have any sort of impact, but that's ok. He had a great drive to the hoop and a basket off the glass, and he made his only 3-point attempt. So once again glimpses of what he may be able to give us someday in the future. And I hope that his mentality will be to use his athleticism to drive to the hoop when he can, and only rely on the 3-pointer if it's required or he's been set-up by his teammates for that shot. So he didn't hurt our team, but it would have been nice to see him get at least one board during his time out there.

I had really hoped that Bobby Brown would get major minutes tonight with the absence of Beno. It's pretty clear that our greatest need is at point-guard, especially after watching Chris Paul work his magic. For the minutes he did get, I thought he played well. He was looking to set up his teammates rather than his own shot which I'm happy about.
He didn't play a single minute in the final quarter, which is unfortunate as it would have been good to see him get some time in to spell Jackson. (When we rested Jackson in the 4th we went with a Garcia/Salmons/Greene group, which does have nice size for the 1-2-3 positions, though there isn't a true point guard there. We played that for 5 minutes and cut down their lead by 3 points so it wasn't all that bad, I guess...)

For Kenny Natt, as I mentioned I didn't think the rotation was perfect, but it was a completely different type of rotation compared to what we saw yesterday.
First, Jason was the first big man off the bench, and he replaced Miller. (Hawes had outplayed Miller at that point). So right off the bat, this game was better than yesterday's game.
Second, Kenny actually let Jason and Spencer play together for about 7 minutes, as Hawes stayed in the game till almost half-way through the 2nd Quarter.
Third, the only time the Miller/Moore pairing was seen was for the last 2.5 minutes of the 2nd Quarter, when it was clear that Jason was tired.
Fourth, in the 3rd, Jason was again the 1st big off the bench, this time replacing Spencer, (Miller was outplaying Spencer at this point) and Jason was in the game for the final 3 minutes of the 3rd and the entire 4th Quarter.
Fifth, and the best news of the night, Kenny rotated out Spencer and Miller for the remainder of the game, and Mikki didn't see any 'crunch-time' minutes.

So, if Kenny is going with a three-man rotation in Miller, Spencer, & JT with Moore coming in if one of them gets in foul trouble, or to provide a bit of energy, it's a fantastic situation. It gives JT and Spencer the opportunity to play more together, and who knows, perhaps gives them the ability to show that they could work even better starting together with Miller off the bench. Optimistic I know...but I can dream.

So that was the best thing about this game...provided that it is actually a change in direction. If we go back a a solid four-man rotation, or Mikki being the first big off the bench in our game against San Antonio....well, that will be disappointing to say the least.

One thing I did find a bit odd, and hope to see corrected. When Garcia got his fourth foul early in the 3rd quarter, Kenny Natt went with Bobby Brown instead of Donte Green. We were only down by 2 at that point. I would really have rather seen John shift to the 2, and Donte take the 3 spot. It's at that time that the Hornets went on the run we never recovered from.
It was good seeing Bobby Brown get into the game, but it really hurts our size if we play Jackson at the 2 while playing Salmons at the 3.
Also as I mentioned earlier, we played a stretch of five minutes in the 4th quarter with no point-guard at all. Considering that Salmons played 42 minutes in this game, it might have been nice to give him a few minutes rest and spell him with Bobby Brown taking the 1 and Garcia shifting to the 2 spot.

Anyway, if this is a sign of things to come, with Natt setting up a primary three-man rotation in Spencer, JT, and Miller, and Donte getting around 15 minutes a night then I think the coaching change was the right move.

To answer Bricklayer's poll question...
The first two games I would have given Natt a 'C'. Houston's game he earned an 'F'. Tonight's game he earned an 'A-'. With the hopes that what we saw tonight will continue for the remainder of the year, I'll give him a 'B' for his first four games, with the provision that it will turn back into a pumpkin if he reverts his rotations. I am going to be really curious to see what happens to the minutes once Kevin gets back. I know that Grant and Jerry mentioned they can't wait to see Salmons and Kevin play together, but I don't personally think they mesh all that well. Hopefully Kevin won't eat up all of Donte and Bobby Brown's minutes (as Jackson moves back to the 1 spot and Salmons moves back to the 3 spot), but we'll just have to see.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#15
Yeah, with Coach Natt, I see them playing rather playing well and competitive. Even thought we lost, we were still in many of the four games, except the one in Portland, though. Really sad to see so many injuries limited this team down. I honestly believe if we had this team fully healthy, and probably had Coach Natt in the beginning, I believe we would be in the sixth or seventh spott. I just guess I am optimistic...:D

Just a tad...you think we are as good as San Antonio or Utah? Who by the way have accomplished what they have with worse injury problems than we have?

We're a lottery team. And these injuries have actually been helpful in making that quite clear from the beginning of the season.
 
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