Geoff's Back!!!

[bench_blob]

Wait... you say this is a really good move for the team, and are telling someone who was critical of Petrie because this type of move is long overdue that they don't recognize that? Are you paying attention?

The loudest criticism of Petrie around here has been that he hadn't started the rebuild yet. Now that he has, if you think he is making the right move, you are in essence agreeing with those who criticized him before.

You can't really have it both ways, at least not with a straight face.

Petrie would have been STUPID to settle for what the Nuggets were offering last year... ED Najera and a #1....so how can you be critical of Petrie for passing on that offer??!! They would not include Kleiza so he said "Hell No" Thank God Geoff Petrie has masterful poker player mentality or our team would be in ruins.

He should have rebuilt sooner, fine, but at what cost, giving away the Top 5 defensive player in the league for nothing???

And then Geoff Petrie actually goes out and gets a young player with star potential like Donte Greene, banks a future #1 pick, makes the trade with future salary cap considerations, and the critics say he should have acted sooner....

That's B.S.!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Petrie would have been STUPID to settle for what the Nuggets were offering last year... ED Najera and a #1....so how can you be critical of Petrie for passing on that offer??!! They would not include Kleiza so he said "Hell No" Thank God Geoff Petrie has masterful poker player mentality or our team would be in ruins.

He should have rebuilt sooner, fine, but at what cost, giving away the Top 5 defensive player in the league for nothing???

And then Geoff Petrie actually goes out and gets a young player with star potential like Donte Greene, banks a future #1 pick, makes the trade with future salary cap considerations, and the critics say he should have acted sooner....

That's B.S.!!!!!!!!!

No, no, people here worked out this trade several years ago. Geoff Petrie was just too stubborn to listen.

Don't deny the genius of a rebuilding plan that goes, we should blow everything up, trade every player with value and go after the top pick in the draft. The uber-intellects who did this rebuilding plan also offered to pay for all the tickets to fill Arco for however long it took, so the Maloofs did not have to worry about the financial impact. Those idiots in Arco - you know the businessmen who have run multiple successful enterprises and the GM who built two separate elite teams from scratch and who has won multiple GM of the year awards - just refused to follow the clearly laid out rebuilding plan of the usual suspects here.

 

[uolj]

Petrie would have been STUPID to settle for what the Nuggets were offering last year... ED Najera and a #1....so how can you be critical of Petrie for passing on that offer??!! They would not include Kleiza so he said "Hell No" Thank God Geoff Petrie has masterful poker player mentality or our team would be in ruins.

He should have rebuilt sooner, fine, but at what cost, giving away the Top 5 defensive player in the league for nothing???

And then Geoff Petrie actually goes out and gets a young player with star potential like Donte Greene, banks a future #1 pick, makes the trade with future salary cap considerations, and the critics say he should have acted sooner....

That's B.S.!!!!!!!!!

I don't understand how your post applies to the post you quoted.

Do you really think it was impossible for the Kings to start the full rebuild sooner than now?

And what does the Nuggets offer have to do with anything? If Artest had opted out then passing on the Nuggets offer might be looking pretty bad right now. Then he really would have lost a top 5 defender for nothing.

 

[rhythmless]

i agree with brick. the rest of you guys are so quick to ride geoff's ****. ron artest is an expiring, so you gain nothing in bjax's expiring. that leaves you with 2 late first round picks, this years and next. if we have to throw in singletary and ewing, you have succesfully turned two early 2nd round picks into a late first round, and have artest go for one late first round pick. congrats geoff, fine work.

remember that there were teams who had late first rounds available for CASH. this is a trade that had to happen, and one that a 5 year old could have pulled off. hey, so this confirms that geoff actually comes into the office and makes a few calls, or answers his voicemail somewhere. yippee, lets call him a genius. you guys call ron nuts for saying we would make the playoffs, and be champs, but you fail to see yourselves makign outlandish claims such as these.

 

[bench_blob]

Well, its well known that I simply live for the approbation of the often comically ignorant, so I will just point out that the reason my diatribes are so "tired and played" is of course precisely becuase I am deadly consistent in my message, which would of course land me squarely on the other side of the street from disingenuous and self serving. I've been making the same call long before it was popular.

And of course because of that -- because I (amongst many others, but as always its about me for you folks) have been telling Geoff to make exactly these moves for YEARS (look it up) -- if Geoff is some sort of genius for only being 3 years behind the curve and finally making a solid move straight out of Rebuilding 101, then I must be a supra-genius at least.

Which is of course true.


You can make a good solid trade accomplishing your goals (which this is) without it being any particular display of exceptional acumen. Some trades are just so obvious that anybody competent would come up with something similar. I understand of course that if somebody were somehow still ignorant of the necessity of this sort of move, how dazzling it might appear. However those of us who are tired and played have been talking about it for years. Who knows, maybe Geoff finally caught on while out surifing the web one night.

I don't recall you ever advocating drafting Jason Thompson, nor do I ever recall you advocating the Artest trade that went down today. If you are as insightful and engenuious as your ridiculous ego would have you believe, and you had called these moves ahead of their fruition, then you might have a leg to stand on.

As it were, you are a monday morning quarterback with a keyboard and an internet connection. Congratulations.

 

[Bricklayer]

No, no, people here worked out this trade several years ago. Geoff Petrie was just too stubborn to listen.

Don't deny the genius of a rebuilding plan that goes, we should blow everything up, trade every player with value and go after the top pick in the draft. The uber-intellects who did this rebuilding plan also offered to pay for all the tickets to fill Arco for however long it took, so the Maloofs did not have to worry about the financial impact. Those idiots in Arco - you know the businessmen who have run multiple successful enterprises and the GM who built two separate elite teams from scratch and who has won multiple GM of the year awards - just refused to follow the clearly laid out rebuilding plan of the usual suspects here.

Sarcasm based on shaky facts typically backfires. Let me give you an example:

1) Geoff did not build the Portland dyansty. He took over as GM (actually VP) after the 89-90 season in which they won 59 games and went to the Finals (source:SI). He presided over their long slow demise, not their rise.

2) His multiple GM of the Year awards = 2. The first of which he won precisely after blowing everything up and trading virtually every player of value. One of the great ironies of the Petrie worship/rebuild resistance crowd is the profound ignorance they have for their own man's history -- the entire reason he got famous in the first place was for blowign a team up and rebuilding from scratch. Now in his later days he becomes associated with sitting on his *** and trying to make #8 seeds, and his fans resort to trashing Geoff's very own strategy that launched our golden era. Ironic is a nice word for stupid sometimes.

3) As you may not have noticed Arco has emptied out anyway. Which if there has been a sudden change of focus may actually have been the catalyst. Not sudden genius. Sudden panic. You tried desperately not to lose for years, bored your fans right out of the arena anyway, oops, guess we might as well actually do that rebuild now if they aren't going to come out to watch out tired old vets anyway.

4) Those "businessmen" are primarily casino owners. You may feel free to construct your wildest most illogical argument for how this translates to some genius for making personnel moves in basketball.

 

[Entity]

OK Brick hold on to your briefcase this may be a shock to you. Junkie and Blob. I haven't agreed on anything with Brick for the last 4 years. But I stand by his statements. He WAS indeed wanting trades and drafts to happen just like this back after Webber was traded. He was very consistant. He did like the Jason Thompson pick just not the fact that it was that early. Now based on knowing GS would have gotten him next he may have changed his mind.


Anyway I a lifelong nemisis of Brick stand behind him on all of his statements in this thread. He and SEVERAL others have called for this type of rebuild project for at least 2 years.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Sarcasm based on shaky facts typically backfires. Let me give you an example:

1) Geoff did not build the Portland dyansty. He took over as GM (actually VP) after the 89-90 season in which they won 59 games and went to the Finals (source:SI). He presided over their long slow demise, not their rise.

2) His multiple GM of the Year awards = 2. The first of which he won precisely after blowing everything up and trading virtually every player of value. One of the great ironies of the Petrie worship/rebuild resistance crowd is the profound ignorance they have for their own man's history -- the entire reason he got famous in the first place was for blowign a team up and rebuilding from scratch. Now in his later days he becomes associated with sitting on his *** and trying to make #8 seeds, and his fans resort to trashing Geoff's very own strategy that launched our golden era. Ironic is a nice word for stupid sometimes.

3) As you may not have noticed Arco has emptied out anyway. Which if there has been a sudden change of focus may actually have been the catalyst. Not sudden genius. Sudden panic. You tried desperately not to lose for years, bored your fans right out of the arena anyway, oops, guess we might as well actually do that rebuild now if they aren't going to come out to watch out tired old vets anyway.

4) Those "businessmen" are primarily casino owners. You may feel free to construct your wildest most illogical argument for how this translates to some genius for making personnel moves in basketball.

Well, never really addressed the point, although even if you want to nitpick on details that do not affect the point then:

1 - Fine, built one and was part of the team that built another.

2 - Petrie did not blow up the first team. He did trade people of value, but got value in return. He did not swap Richmond for expiring contract, he traded him for Webber. Our team got instantly better.

3 - Yes, even winning games and having some good players they are not selling out. Just imagine the fan reaction if we pulled the NBA equivalent of the Indians in Major League for a few years.

4 - They have owned and operated multiple businesses. The Palms has been an extremely successful casino. I won't even pretend to know how much of that boils down to sound business acumen for the Maloofs and how much is due to having a rich family and good advisors. However, they are still successful businessmen.

Griping based off of shaky facts and very little in the way of a tangible and sustainable plan often backfires.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't recall you ever advocating drafting Jason Thompson, nor do I ever recall you advocating the Artest trade that went down today. If you are as insightful and engenuious as your ridiculous ego would have you believe, and you had called these moves ahead of their fruition, then you might have a leg to stand on.

As it were, you are a monday morning quarterback with a keyboard and an internet connection. Congratulations.

The first paragraph of this post is just silly -- those are ridiculous reaches even in the realm of strawmen.

And the second paragraph just isn't even a very good insult. If you would like I could provide you with one that might at least sting -- I have been told I have a gift.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

OK Brick hold on to your briefcase this may be a shock to you. Junkie and Blob. I haven't agreed on anything with Brick for the last 4 years. But I stand by his statements. He WAS indeed wanting trades and drafts to happen just like this back after Webber was traded. He was very consistant. He did like the Jason Thompson pick just not the fact that it was that early. Now based on knowing GS would have gotten him next he may have changed his mind.


Anyway I a lifelong nemisis of Brick stand behind him on all of his statements in this thread. He and SEVERAL others have called for this type of rebuild project for at least 2 years.

I never mentioned Brick (prior to responding to his post to me just now), I have no need to call one person out here unless I am addressing their specific post. I fully agree that Brick has consistently wanted a rebuild, but he is not alone there and I have outlined before how I think Petrie has been moving that direction.

My sarcasm was aimed at the posters continuing to be negative and acting like Petrie accomplished nothing with this move and not giving him credit because "this should have happened long ago." The primary rebuidling plan people have proposed here has been to trade away everything of value and get the top pick, ignoring every inconvenient complexity.

Shoot, my post was actually a response to someone responding to a poster other than Brick.

 

[Superman]

Sarcasm based on shaky facts typically backfires. Let me give you an example:

1) Geoff did not build the Portland dyansty. He took over as GM (actually VP) after the 89-90 season in which they won 59 games and went to the Finals (source:SI). He presided over their long slow demise, not their rise.

2) His multiple GM of the Year awards = 2. The first of which he won precisely after blowing everything up and trading virtually every player of value. One of the great ironies of the Petrie worship/rebuild resistance crowd is the profound ignorance they have for their own man's history -- the entire reason he got famous in the first place was for blowign a team up and rebuilding from scratch. Now in his later days he becomes associated with sitting on his *** and trying to make #8 seeds, and his fans resort to trashing Geoff's very own strategy that launched our golden era. Ironic is a nice word for stupid sometimes.

Yeah, my beef with Geoff is not that I don't think he's capable of doing great things, because he's done it in the past. Can't credit him with Portland's success, but we became a powerhouse under his watch solely, through good drafting, timely trades, and a good mix of players that he was responsible for bringing in, from top to bottom. So I believe that he's capable of building a team to win.

I'm not 100% certain he has the stones to. I mentioned this last summer also. Geoff had either been unable to sell the Maloofs on the necessity of rebuilding the right way or hadn't built up the nerve to impose his will as the president of basketball operations. Either way, he wasn't doing his job well, whether that's his fault or someone else's. And since he wasn't doing his job - whether it was an issue with ownership or a lack of testosterone - he wasn't very valuable as our head man.

It's like having a premiere scorer who defers to a lesser player because he doesn't like confrontation. There's a quote from The Office that I like from Ryan Howard, formerly "the temp": "Jim's a nice guy; that's why I got the desk." Being a nice guy is honorable in sports, but it doesn't win championships on the floor, and it doesn't build winning franchises in the front office.

I know that some people think Geoff just lucked into eight consecutive playoff appearances, but I can't subscribe to that line of thinking. There are others who still "trust" him just because we went to the playoffs eight tmies and made some noise along the way. I think it requires some revisionist history and dramatic license to really buy into either point of view.

And I certainly don't think the few moves we've made the past two seasons are enough of an indication that we're moving in the right direction to declare that "Geoff's back".

 

[uolj]

My sarcasm was aimed at the posters continuing to be negative and acting like Petrie accomplished nothing with this move and not giving him credit because "this should have happened long ago."

Who?

 

[bajaden]

Yeah, my beef with Geoff is not that I don't think he's capable of doing great things, because he's done it in the past. Can't credit him with Portland's success, but we became a powerhouse under his watch solely, through good drafting, timely trades, and a good mix of players that he was responsible for bringing in, from top to bottom. So I believe that he's capable of building a team to win.

I'm not 100% certain he has the stones to. I mentioned this last summer also. Geoff had either been unable to sell the Maloofs on the necessity of rebuilding the right way or hadn't built up the nerve to impose his will as the president of basketball operations. Either way, he wasn't doing his job well, whether that's his fault or someone else's. And since he wasn't doing his job - whether it was an issue with ownership or a lack of testosterone - he wasn't very valuable as our head man.

It's like having a premiere scorer who defers to a lesser player because he doesn't like confrontation. There's a quote from The Office that I like from Ryan Howard, formerly "the temp": "Jim's a nice guy; that's why I got the desk." Being a nice guy is honorable in sports, but it doesn't win championships on the floor, and it doesn't build winning franchises in the front office.

I know that some people think Geoff just lucked into eight consecutive playoff appearances, but I can't subscribe to that line of thinking. There are others who still "trust" him just because we went to the playoffs eight tmies and made some noise along the way. I think it requires some revisionist history and dramatic license to really buy into either point of view.

And I certainly don't think the few moves we've made the past two seasons are enough of an indication that we're moving in the right direction to declare that "Geoff's back".

Nice post. Thanks for some sanity. I decided not to take sides here, because it became a battle of ego's instead of a logical discussion. All I can say, is that everyone is intitled to his opinon, and if you disagree with it, attack the content of the post and not the person.

I know that some of you aparently have issues from the past. I would love it they could be resolved through PM's instead of out here on the public fourm. Ron is gone. The deal is done, hopefully. Whether it could have been done sooner, or better is subjective and certainly fair game. But could we all try to do it in a civil manner.

 

[VF21]

One thing to remember? Even though there may be a "battle" going on, this has not deteriorated into a flamefest or myriad of nothing but ridiculous insults.

Just another reason I love Kingsfans.com

Of course, now that Entity has actually agreed with Bricklayer it may be the end of civilization as we know it.

 

[Alacron]

Geoff will have to pull off another stunner or two before I consider him a genius again. It is both encouraging and frustrating to see what is happening now that we are in rebuild mode. We are now stocked with young players, upcoming first rounders and upcoming cap space.

Seeing how quickly this was accomplished reminds me that Geoff has done a great job of constructing a winning team in the past... and also makes me wonder why didn't he do anything comparable these last four years. (Oh, right... we were contending)

We know that the Maloofs had a hand in some significant personnel decisions, and I suppose it's possible they were pushing to "win now" even after that ship had clearly sailed.
~~

 

[upinsmoke]

What he does with cap space in the coming years will really be the test for GP.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Yeah, my beef with Geoff is not that I don't think he's capable of doing great things, because he's done it in the past. Can't credit him with Portland's success, but we became a powerhouse under his watch solely, through good drafting, timely trades, and a good mix of players that he was responsible for bringing in, from top to bottom. So I believe that he's capable of building a team to win.

I'm not 100% certain he has the stones to. I mentioned this last summer also. Geoff had either been unable to sell the Maloofs on the necessity of rebuilding the right way or hadn't built up the nerve to impose his will as the president of basketball operations. Either way, he wasn't doing his job well, whether that's his fault or someone else's. And since he wasn't doing his job - whether it was an issue with ownership or a lack of testosterone - he wasn't very valuable as our head man.

It's like having a premiere scorer who defers to a lesser player because he doesn't like confrontation. There's a quote from The Office that I like from Ryan Howard, formerly "the temp": "Jim's a nice guy; that's why I got the desk." Being a nice guy is honorable in sports, but it doesn't win championships on the floor, and it doesn't build winning franchises in the front office.

I know that some people think Geoff just lucked into eight consecutive playoff appearances, but I can't subscribe to that line of thinking. There are others who still "trust" him just because we went to the playoffs eight tmies and made some noise along the way. I think it requires some revisionist history and dramatic license to really buy into either point of view.

And I certainly don't think the few moves we've made the past two seasons are enough of an indication that we're moving in the right direction to declare that "Geoff's back".

Somebody give this man a medal. Said much more eloquently then I could have.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Who?

If you are really interested, feel free to private message me and I can tell you. I am not trying to call posters out here unnecessarily. Unless I am responding directly to someone's post, I try to avoid calling someone out like that.

If you go back and read any of the discussions/arguments that have taken place on this board ad nauseum, I don't think it is that hard to figure out though.

 

[Heuge]

We know that the Maloofs had a hand in some significant personnel decisions, and I suppose it's possible they were pushing to "win now" even after that ship had clearly sailed.
~~

How do we know this? I seem to be missing info that many are bringing out there as fact. I remember the contrary, if truth be told. I recall the Maloofs saying that ultimately this is Geoff's team to build and they were just uber-fans.

 

[Jerryaki]

Thank God Geoff Petrie has masterful poker player mentality or our team would be in ruins.

gotta say, the team wasn't too far off from "ruins" the last two seasons, IMO. which is why a move like this doesn't really make me heap tons of praise on GP: he made a move that hopefully will help extricate us from the mess he helped get us into in the first place.

masterful poker mentality, that's a laugh.

 

[bajaden]

How do we know this? I seem to be missing info that many are bringing out there as fact. I remember the contrary, if truth be told. I recall the Maloofs saying that ultimately this is Geoff's team to build and they were just uber-fans.

I think the point is, that we don't know. All this is conjecture, and a waste of time, and won't change a thing anyway. Unless, someone has a fly on the wall in their offices, we don't know.

Despite all the fancy words written on both sides of the issue, no one has a shred of evidence of where to place the blame. If one falls into the camp, that we should have done more, a lot sooner, then one can make a case that there should be blame somewhere. But in so far as to who is the blame, we don't know.

Petrie is the GM. He's paid to take the heat, but I'm sure he loses no sleep at night over our rantings and ravings. For those of you whose ego's need to be stroked by the knowledge that your smarter than Petrie, I can recommend some good self help books. For those of you who need to live their lives vicariously through Petrie to get through the day. Well, I'm not much into idol worship. And for those of you who read this last paragraph and get angry. I'd say one of the shoes must fit.

I try to lead my life in the now. Not what could have been, and not what might be. I try to have reasonable expectations for the future, and even reasonable ones can become disapointments. But unless you tried to rape my daughter or steal my car, I try to stay away from blame. Total waste of time and energy. Just my opinion. It costs nothing.

 

[DirtyAcres]

Kenny Thomas isn't a problem to us.

Kenny Thomas is still getting paid, Kenny Thomas is still a problem.

 

[Heuge]

I try to lead my life in the now. Not what could have been, and not what might be. I try to have reasonable expectations for the future, and even reasonable ones can become disapointments. But unless you tried to rape my daughter or steal my car, I try to stay away from blame. Total waste of time and energy. Just my opinion. It costs nothing.

Heh, so writing and reading on a forum must be a real stretch for you since all that is done is reflecting on the past and musing about the future.

 

[ovrush]

Kenny Thomas is still getting paid, Kenny Thomas is still a problem.

Kenny Thomas will be an outright asset as a big fat expiring soon. Unless there are other deals for enders we won't have cap space anyways so as long as he isn't taking pt from our young guys he isn't hurting.

If we can ignore him this year (tough to do I'm sick of him too ) Then next year the Kenny Thomas era could land us a solid player instead of trying to lessen what our assets are worth by forcing him to be packaged with them.

 

[Superman]

How do we know this? I seem to be missing info that many are bringing out there as fact. I remember the contrary, if truth be told. I recall the Maloofs saying that ultimately this is Geoff's team to build and they were just uber-fans.

It's general consensus that the Maloofs pushed for the Webber trade to happen before the deadline, and that Geoff wasn't happy with that decision. There was also many sentiments expressed that made it seem like the Maloofs told Geoff to get under the tax threshold, which stopped the Keon Clark and Jim Jackson-type signings when we still had a chance at being competitive.

I don't think too many people "know" what type of relationship and communications Petrie and the Maloofs really have, but we can assume certain things from what we see and hear.

 

[uolj]

And of course there's the Stojakovic-Artest trade, in which they almost made the deal themselves.

 

[Heuge]

It's general consensus that the Maloofs pushed for the Webber trade to happen before the deadline, and that Geoff wasn't happy with that decision. There was also many sentiments expressed that made it seem like the Maloofs told Geoff to get under the tax threshold, which stopped the Keon Clark and Jim Jackson-type signings when we still had a chance at being competitive.

I don't think too many people "know" what type of relationship and communications Petrie and the Maloofs really have, but we can assume certain things from what we see and hear.

Consensus from whom; the fans, this website, writers? I would love to see something more then conjecture if we are going to call it fact or at least assume it is.

 

[Superman]

Consensus from whom; the fans, this website, writers? I would love to see something more then conjecture if we are going to call it fact or at least assume it is.

Sure; I understand that. I'm unwilling at this point to do the proper research to show you why it's general consensus, so I can't give you more than conjecture. But I have held that view for many years now, and I know that many others feel the same way.

 

[FakeInjury]

He did the right thing. And that is what is important. His logic seems obscur to us because we may not fully understand the bussiness dynamic he has to master every day in efforts to acheive a worth while team. Props to Geoff, he isn't bad at what he does.

 

[Jerryaki]

no doubt about that. while i think a lot of people on here do try to keep the finances in consideration, we tend to skew towards wanting to run this team as fans. GP's gotta run it also as a business, which complicates it.