Scott Howard Cooper trade idea: Artest/KT for Odom

[Capt. Factorial]

Please give me a reason why Phoenix could get involved in the mix and make something like this work - http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=4715833
maybe the Kings would need to give up a first....

I'd much rather have Odom and Farmar than Bell and Diaw. At least Odom expires at the end of the year, while Diaw's big contract goes on and on. Bell is getting old and would play behind Kevin, whereas Farmar at least represents a young piece who may become a solid starter at PG in a few years.

I can't understand at all why we'd pull in Phoenix AND give up a first rounder to get an inferior package back.

 

[hammystyle]

I'd trade Artest for Odom straight up without even dumping KT on them(although i don't know how those salaries work). If we can also dump KT then its an even crazier slam dunk. Odom has way more trade value on the open market then Artest ever will. The Lakers are a perfect storm of a trade partner, Artest is a perfect fit, and they have a great piece in Odom that isn't.

We could flip Odom to Warriors without us even taking on salary and get back some Wright/Randolph pick combo. Odom would be a GREAT fit for them.

The main reason you do it is because Odom is just more valuable as a trade chip.

 

[hammystyle]

The smart thing to do, if a trade has to be done, is to target one or two young players that would fit into the future development of this team. We're beyond just the stockpiling talent phase at this point. We should be looking specifically for guys who will fit into this team with these players.

I disagree with pretty much your whole post, but this part in particular. This current team isn't even close to a playoff spot, let alone a championship. We should be committed to NO ONE on our current roster other than KMart because none of them have proven they deserve a commitment. Beno and Hawes might get there, but if the most talented trade option plays their position or doesn't complement their games ideally? Screw it...pull the trigger. See what happens and KEEP COLLECTING TALENT.

 

[ITSCdanimal]

I'd much rather have Odom and Farmar than Bell and Diaw. At least Odom expires at the end of the year, while Diaw's big contract goes on and on. Bell is getting old and would play behind Kevin, whereas Farmar at least represents a young piece who may become a solid starter at PG in a few years.

I can't understand at all why we'd pull in Phoenix AND give up a first rounder to get an inferior package back.

I guess I likes Diaw a hell of a lot more than you do. Personally, I think he could be the best of the players mentioned.

 

[hrdboild]

It unclogs the logjam at the 4 that we now have. It removes a bad attitude out of our locker room, and free's up bench space.

I don't see how removing Kenny Thomas from the roster changes any of that considering he wasn't even on the active roster last season so he's technically not blocking anybody at the 4 or taking up any space on the bench. Unless you're just referring to physical space and you're just joking, which is fine, but the point still stands. Dumping his contract doesn't get us any money and it doesn't free up space for anyone.

you don't get Odom to trade him. You get him to let him walk away at the end of 08-09 and clear space. We have people to cover the 3 by the name of John Salmons, Francisco Garci, and Patrick Ewing Jr.

As I already mentioned, in the point you didn't address before this, his expiring deal doesn't net us anything because we're still over the limit until 2010 and both Artest and KT will have expired by 2010 too. If you just get him to let his contract expire, you got nothing.

[they]'d get a year rental, because you'd do it before the season started season. It's worth it, because you'd be rid of Artest's insanity, and KT's bad attitude

Are you trying to convince me? If I were a GM I would gladly trade you my trash and a draft pick for Artest. Does that make you happy? That's not the point.

We wouldn't be stockpilin talent. We'd be getting an expiring contract, that got rid of two players we didn't want. This player would be earning his money instead of getting paid 10 million to travel and dress in a suit and not much more.

Judging by this response, I don't think you even read that last paragraph, so I don't see why I should respond to this.

 

[hrdboild]

I disagree with pretty much your whole post, but this part in particular. This current team isn't even close to a playoff spot, let alone a championship. We should be committed to NO ONE on our current roster other than KMart because none of them have proven they deserve a commitment. Beno and Hawes might get there, but if the most talented trade option plays their position or doesn't complement their games ideally? Screw it...pull the trigger. See what happens and KEEP COLLECTING TALENT.

Well I'm glad you're not in charge of running a team. I agree this current team isn't anywhere close to a playoff spot, I never said they were. I've consistently said the exact opposite. And I'll do you one better, I think Kevin Martin and Ron Artest are the only two players on our roster that could even potentially be starters on a championship level team. But you don't get anywhere just by stockpiling talent. You actually have to get players to play together as a team and at some point you have to start considering how well each guys' strengths and weaknesses compliment the rest of the roster. Even though I'm personally skeptical of guys like Hawes and Garcia and Salmons and Udrih, that's the talent we've been stockpiling. So unless you want to just cut everybody and start over, we're going to have to be building a team around these guys or trading them for guys we can build a team around. Just randomly acquiring whoever someone else wants to discard (like we've been doing for the past 5 years or so) is a great way to build a roster full of names, but it's no way to put together a functioning basketball team.

 

[Warhawk]

I don't see how removing Kenny Thomas from the roster changes any of that considering he wasn't even on the active roster last season so he's technically not blocking anybody at the 4 or taking up any space on the bench. Unless you're just referring to physical space and you're just joking, which is fine, but the point still stands. Dumping his contract doesn't get us any money and it doesn't free up space for anyone.
As I already mentioned, in the point you didn't address before this, his expiring deal doesn't net us anything because we're still over the limit until 2010 and both Artest and KT will have expired by 2010 too. If you just get him to let his contract expire, you got nothing.
Are you trying to convince me? If I were a GM I would gladly trade you my trash and a draft pick for Artest. Does that make you happy? That's not the point.

Judging by this response, I don't think you even read that last paragraph, so I don't see why I should respond to this.

Um, Kenny's deal is 2 years and Odom's is one. We remove 1 year of Kenny's contract.

 

[hrdboild]

Um, Kenny's deal is 2 years and Odom's is one. We remove 1 year of Kenny's contract.

How many times do I have to say the same thing? Read my last 3 posts. It doesn't matter if Odom's is 1 year less unless you also trade or cut Brad, Mikki, SAR and also let Shelden walk. Otherwise we're still looking at 2010 before we'll have any usable cap space and losing Kenny's contract doesn't change that now.

EDIT -- I should add that I get the impression people just want Kenny gone now just to see him gone. At any point in the last 3 years, trading Kenny Thomas would have been fantastic. After we piled on John Salmons, Mikki Moore, and Beno's midlevel deals, losing Kenny now doesn't do us any good. We'd actually be better off keeping him another year now just in case someone we do want pops up mid-season in '09/'10* when we can offer some team our plethora of "flexible" expiring contracts to make any deal work. We'll have a lot of expirings that year. I also get the impression people just want Artest gone now too regardless of whether it makes sense for this team from a business standpoint or a basketball standpoint. I don't understand what the guy did that's made you all so mad.

*That 2010 offseason is going to be a nightmare. Half the teams in the league are going to have 20 million to spend and there's only so many Wades, Lebrons, and Boshs to go around. A lot of teams are going to get a whole lotta nothing. I can't wait. It's going to be one entertaining summer.

 

[ITSCdanimal]

How many times do I have to say the same thing? Read my last 3 posts. It doesn't matter if Odom's is 1 year less unless you also trade or cut Brad, Mikki, SAR and also let Shelden walk. Otherwise we're still looking at 2010 before we'll have any usable cap space and losing Kenny's contract doesn't change that now.

You're right that it doesn't improve our ability to sign free agents, but it represents an extraordinary amount of money next year none-the-less. And an owner who has save 10mil in '09 would be, at least in theory, more ammenable to spending money in '10.

 

[hrdboild]

You're right that it doesn't improve our ability to sign free agents, but it represents an extraordinary amount of money next year none-the-less. And an owner who has save 10mil in '09 would be, at least in theory, more ammenable to spending money in '10.

That's a pretty good point, actually. I'm glad somebody brought that up. The owners might stand to save a few million with that deal, even if it doesn't help the team get better or net us any usable future prospects. It does make sense from that point of view, but we don't have penny-pinching owners do we? These guys will do anything to make this team competitive.

 

[AriesMar27]

okay i got it....

artest/reef/moore/williams for odom/ariza/famar/mihm...

every players from the lakers are expiring contracts.... we'd be stuck with thomas but would clear up some roster spots for thompson and hawes....

 

[captain bill]

If Artest stays, hes not going to be the next time his contract is up. That's guaranteed. He already ran his mouth regretting not opting out, what makes anyone think he's going to be here in the long run. He's not. So get rid of the guy who regrets resigning with the team and made the locker room bitter. The Kings have tolerated Artest's mouth for quite too long now that it has become a distraction. Sure, people might find it entertaining cause he's always in the media, but it doesn't help the team. Get him out of here. Send him to LA for Odom who's a nice player. I honestly don't think there is a better offer than Odom anyway. If it's a chance to get rid of a fat contract like KT's and get rid of a team distraction, then do it. The Kings won't get a chance like that again.

you are getting it backwards. the reason he didn't opt out in the first place is because he thought the kings were going to give him an extension to be a part of the future, and they refused to discuss it after the opt-out deadline, which pissed him off. that is no indication that he still wouldn't be willing to get an extension later, but that the front office probably doesn't want to give him one.


kt will be off the books in two years. giving artest to the lakers means we are setting up a divisional rival for a dynasty run, meaning our chances at getting deep in the playoffs for the forseeable future are severely hurt. odom is a decent player but has never been more of a role player. he is closer to sar than to artest. he will not help us build for the future.

lots of teams are going to want artest's services if they feel he could put them a little closer to a ring- like dallas, pho, toronto, cleveland, philly, washington or atlanta. i am sure at least one team would be willing to offer a combo of expirings, solid young players or draft picks, all of which are better options right now than odom.

 

[beb0p]

Here's the thing, the Lakers probably don't need Artest to win a championship if Bynum comes back healthy. But with Artest, they could be a super dynasty (assuming Ron Ron stays sane). Seriously, they could be winning championship after championship, for as long as Kobe can still play.

So there's no reason to simply give LA that final piece. I'm not against trading with the "enemy" but the Lakers are lowballing us. It's all in the eyes of the beholder, maybe the other 28 teams see Artest as a plague, but to the Lakers, Ron Ron may as well be Jesus Christ the Savior combines with Santa Claus.

Taking K9 from us for Odom is the least they should do. How much would you give up for the final piece of a multi-championships team? You'd probably give up all the moveable piece if that's what it takes, wouldn't you? So with that in mind, I'd counter with Artest + SAR + K9 for Odom + Farmar + Ariza + two future 1st.

That's a one-sided trade, I know. But if the Lakers don't have the balls to pull it, they don't deserve to be a dynasty. And if they walk away, well, that's just fine with me.

 

[hrdboild]

Taking K9 from us for Odom is the least they should do. How much would you give up for the final piece of a multi-championships team? You'd probably give up all the moveable piece if that's what it takes, wouldn't you? So with that in mind, I'd counter with Artest + SAR + K9 for Odom + Farmar + Ariza + two future 1st.

That's a one-sided trade, I know. But if the Lakers don't have the balls to pull it, they don't deserve to be a dynasty. And if they walk away, well, that's just fine with me.

Remember the Lakers already gave two future 1st round picks to Memphis and they can't trade consecutive picks. Any picks we got wouldn't be coming until 2013 or something.

 

[Telemachus]

[/COLOR]

Here's the thing, the Lakers probably don't need Artest to win a championship if Bynum comes back healthy. But with Artest, they could be a super dynasty (assuming Ron Ron stays sane). Seriously, they could be winning championship after championship, for as long as Kobe can still play.

I don't understand why so many people are infatuated with Bynum. Last season he was considered a bust, and now many put him with the top centers in the league. He only played 37 games last season and came on strong for about the last 20 or so. That by no means proves anything in the NBA.

I also thing too many feel that Artest will somehow magically turn into the player we all wished he could be by going to the Lakers. He may manage that for a while, but I would be shocked if it last a whole season. He likes to dominate the ball too much, which will take away from Kobe (who won't let that happen). He will definately help them defensively, but will hurt their offense and rebounding, not to mention what he might do to their clubhouse.

 

[VF21]

I also thing too many feel that Artest will somehow magically turn into the player we all wished he could be by going to the Lakers. He may manage that for a while, but I would be shocked if it last a whole season. He likes to dominate the ball too much, which will take away from Kobe (who won't let that happen). He will definately help them defensively, but will hurt their offense and rebounding, not to mention what he might do to their clubhouse.

First, welcome to the board!

I agree completely with your assessment of the probable influence Artest might have on the Lakers. He's not going to be able to all of a sudden become the picture perfect small forward. He's still Ron Artest, in spite of whatever uniform he might be wearing.

 

[beb0p]

Remember the Lakers already gave two future 1st round picks to Memphis and they can't trade consecutive picks. Any picks we got wouldn't be coming until 2013 or something.

The Lakers already gave Memphis the 08 pick. They'll give them the 2010 pick. so the earliest pick they can trade is the 2012 pick, which is just fine with me.

I don't understand why so many people are infatuated with Bynum. Last season he was considered a bust, and now many put him with the top centers in the league. He only played 37 games last season and came on strong for about the last 20 or so. That by no means proves anything in the NBA.

No one is saying Bynum is the next Patrick Ewing. But he doesn't need to be an All-Star to propel the Lakers to that next level. He just needs to rebound and clog that lane and score once in a while, things he already can do well, to give LA that extra dimension they lacked. You take any Finals team, add a 7 footer who can block/rebound/score at an above average rate, and that team is only going to be even better. If he never improves he still makes LA a scary team.

I also thing too many feel that Artest will somehow magically turn into the player we all wished he could be by going to the Lakers. He may manage that for a while, but I would be shocked if it last a whole season. He likes to dominate the ball too much, which will take away from Kobe (who won't let that happen). He will definately help them defensively, but will hurt their offense and rebounding, not to mention what he might do to their clubhouse.

Good point. Artest is not a bad rebounder, you throw in Bynum and the Lakers are not going to be hurting in the rebounding dept. He may screw up their offense, but if Artest can improves the defense by a mile and maybe screw up the offense by a foot, that's a win for the Lakers. And that's what they're banking on.

If the Lakers were that worried about Artest having his 15 shots per game, they wouldn't have proposed a trade. The fact that they want him shows they thought this thing through. Now, they may be wrong and you may be right, but nonetheless the point is not whether Artest is a good fit, the point is we should be asking for a lot more than what LA is offering.

 

[SacKings7]

I guess I likes Diaw a hell of a lot more than you do. Personally, I think he could be the best of the players mentioned.

Umm, no. Artest is the best, then Odom is in close second imo, then Diaw is a distant third. There's no question the guy is talented, but imo, like Odom, he lacks heart and determination. I actually think Diaw is a shorter version of Odom, while being slower and a slightly better passer

 

[Telemachus]

Good point. Artest is not a bad rebounder, you throw in Bynum and the Lakers are not going to be hurting in the rebounding dept. He may screw up their offense, but if Artest can improves the defense by a mile and maybe screw up the offense by a foot, that's a win for the Lakers. And that's what they're banking on.QUOTE]

Artest is not a bad rebounder, but doesn't compare to Odom in that department. Having Bynum back will help for sure.

All I was trying to say is that adding Artest doen't nessisarily turn them into a dynasty. He and Kobe will be fighting each other for the ball (not literally). The return of Bynum also brings up questions as he is only a post player and that is were Gasol is most effective. One of them will have to play the high post to make things work. I would think that Gasol is better suited for that, but don't recall if he has played it much or at all.

 

[hammystyle]

Well I'm glad you're not in charge of running a team. I agree this current team isn't anywhere close to a playoff spot, I never said they were. I've consistently said the exact opposite. And I'll do you one better, I think Kevin Martin and Ron Artest are the only two players on our roster that could even potentially be starters on a championship level team. But you don't get anywhere just by stockpiling talent. You actually have to get players to play together as a team and at some point you have to start considering how well each guys' strengths and weaknesses compliment the rest of the roster. Even though I'm personally skeptical of guys like Hawes and Garcia and Salmons and Udrih, that's the talent we've been stockpiling. So unless you want to just cut everybody and start over, we're going to have to be building a team around these guys or trading them for guys we can build a team around. Just randomly acquiring whoever someone else wants to discard (like we've been doing for the past 5 years or so) is a great way to build a roster full of names, but it's no way to put together a functioning basketball team.

We're not really that far apart here. If you're trading Artest, you're not worried about how the guy coming in should fit with Garcia, Salmons and Udrih. All you should be worried about is getting a talented asset who is the type you can build around, or is a possible piece in getting a future building block. Then once you have that building block, you see if the Garcias, Salmons, and Udrih's fit around him, and if not then you trade them. So I agree with your general philosophy on this, I just think you're skippnig a step.

In this scenario of tradnig Artest for Odom. Odom is worth more on the market than Artest. That's the truth whether you want to see it or not. The Lakers make the trade because Artest works for them better than he works for any other team. Then our goal is to get the best we can for Odom. I suggested some Wright/Randolph or pick combo from GS, which is a hell of a lot more than Kleiza+pick.

 

[hrdboild]

In this scenario of tradnig Artest for Odom. Odom is worth more on the market than Artest. That's the truth whether you want to see it or not.

This is the only part I disagree with. Odom may be more valuable than Artest if they're both making 7 million dollars (considering Artest's perceived attitude problems) but Odom making 14 million is not irrefutably better on the open market than Artest making 7 million. Odom just got exposed in the Finals as a soft, no defense wing player who couldn't step up when his team needed him. It could have just been one bad series, but his trade value is down right now. He still might have more perceived value than Artest because he puts up big rebounding numbers, but you have to also look at what teams you'll potentially be trading with. A 14 million dollar contract is not easy to move and it's highly likely that whoever we do find will need to put in one of their bad contracts along with whatever young guys we want just to make the trade work. If those bad contracts expire in 2010, no problem. If they don't, we're delaying our rebuild process even more. And if we can't find a taker for Odom we're faced with losing him for nothing just like we would have lost Artest. If the argument for getting Odom is to trade him mid-season, I don't think that will be as easy as it sounds.

 

[Bricklayer]

Here's the thing, the Lakers probably don't need Artest to win a championship if Bynum comes back healthy. But with Artest, they could be a super dynasty (assuming Ron Ron stays sane). Seriously, they could be winning championship after championship, for as long as Kobe can still play.

So there's no reason to simply give LA that final piece. I'm not against trading with the "enemy" but the Lakers are lowballing us. It's all in the eyes of the beholder, maybe the other 28 teams see Artest as a plague, but to the Lakers, Ron Ron may as well be Jesus Christ the Savior combines with Santa Claus.

Taking K9 from us for Odom is the least they should do. How much would you give up for the final piece of a multi-championships team? You'd probably give up all the moveable piece if that's what it takes, wouldn't you? So with that in mind, I'd counter with Artest + SAR + K9 for Odom + Farmar + Ariza + two future 1st.

That's a one-sided trade, I know. But if the Lakers don't have the balls to pull it, they don't deserve to be a dynasty. And if they walk away, well, that's just fine with me.

That is about the ultimate Rosy-Ron assessment of the scenario.

Because its a rsik for the Lakers too. Ron could just as easily squabble with Kobe, fight for the ball, poison the lockerroom, and then run off and leave them for nothing at the end of the year. I've mentioned before that its possible the single best thing we could do to scuttle a Lakers championship is to slip them a Ron Ron micky, and watch the wackiness ensue.

And in any case, the Lakers are irrelevant. We are all that matters. What's good for us = a good trade. By the time we ae ready to matter again, whatever consequences, good or bad, that might have resulted for the Lakers from an Artest trade will have just about run the course. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

 

[talltimbr]

3 Way Instead of 2

I'm not sure if I'm happy with Odom for a number of reasons ... so how about this.

Kings out:
Artest
KT
Douby

Kings get:
Tim Thomas
Thornton

Lakers out:
Odom

Lakers get:
Artest
KT

Clippers out:
Thornton
Tim Thomas

Clippers get:
Odom
Douby

Kings get a young piece with promise in Thornton and T. Thomas' contract expires at the same time as KT's would

Lakers get Artest and a better chance at a Championship

Clippers get get a PF to replace Brand and a Douby to help fill out their roster

Trade checker works and I'm much happier with this than either of the 2 team trades. KT - finally gone, it might be too soon to give up on Douby but I'm ready to throw him in if it will help Clippers agree. We still have our cap room in 2010 and a very promising piece in Thornton to groom for the future.

 

[hammystyle]

This is the only part I disagree with. Odom may be more valuable than Artest if they're both making 7 million dollars (considering Artest's perceived attitude problems) but Odom making 14 million is not irrefutably better on the open market than Artest making 7 million. Odom just got exposed in the Finals as a soft, no defense wing player who couldn't step up when his team needed him. It could have just been one bad series, but his trade value is down right now. He still might have more perceived value than Artest because he puts up big rebounding numbers, but you have to also look at what teams you'll potentially be trading with. A 14 million dollar contract is not easy to move and it's highly likely that whoever we do find will need to put in one of their bad contracts along with whatever young guys we want just to make the trade work. If those bad contracts expire in 2010, no problem. If they don't, we're delaying our rebuild process even more. And if we can't find a taker for Odom we're faced with losing him for nothing just like we would have lost Artest. If the argument for getting Odom is to trade him mid-season, I don't think that will be as easy as it sounds.

He was not exposed as anything. He just had the worst matchup in the league for him in KG. Odom averaged 12 pt 9board on 50% shooting. He held KG to 18 points on 44%. Really, he played him pretty tough. Gasol was the softie, and Kobe stunk. the problem with Odom in the playoffs is consistency, his average numbers for his career are really good, but he's had some stinkers. Look up Artest's playofff numbers sometime. The're awful.

14 vs 7 is a legit argument. However, Golden State could take him while they're underneath the cap. The Clippers could too. There's three-way deals. Cleveland has expirings. There's just more teams needing a talented 4 who can board, then a great defending

Artest's perceived attitude problems? If you can't concede Artest is a certified head case, then you're blinded.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Here's the thing, the Lakers probably don't need Artest to win a championship if Bynum comes back healthy. But with Artest, they could be a super dynasty (assuming Ron Ron stays sane). Seriously, they could be winning championship after championship, for as long as Kobe can still play.

So there's no reason to simply give LA that final piece. I'm not against trading with the "enemy" but the Lakers are lowballing us. It's all in the eyes of the beholder, maybe the other 28 teams see Artest as a plague, but to the Lakers, Ron Ron may as well be Jesus Christ the Savior combines with Santa Claus.

Taking K9 from us for Odom is the least they should do. How much would you give up for the final piece of a multi-championships team? You'd probably give up all the moveable piece if that's what it takes, wouldn't you? So with that in mind, I'd counter with Artest + SAR + K9 for Odom + Farmar + Ariza + two future 1st.

That's a one-sided trade, I know. But if the Lakers don't have the balls to pull it, they don't deserve to be a dynasty. And if they walk away, well, that's just fine with me.

You're wrong if you think the lakers fail for not taking that incredibly lopsided homer of a deal. You are seriously overrating Artest here, he's not that great. He'd only really help them defensively because whoever is replacing Lamar will be the 4th option, and Artest can't do anything as a 4th option, his offensive game is based on dominating the ball and that just won't happen in the triangle offense next to Kobe.

 

[NewArena]

[/color]

Here's the thing, the Lakers probably don't need Artest to win a championship if Bynum comes back healthy. But with Artest, they could be a super dynasty (assuming Ron Ron stays sane). Seriously, they could be winning championship after championship, for as long as Kobe can still play.

I don't understand why so many people are infatuated with Bynum. Last season he was considered a bust, and now many put him with the top centers in the league. He only played 37 games last season and came on strong for about the last 20 or so. That by no means proves anything in the NBA.

I also thing too many feel that Artest will somehow magically turn into the player we all wished he could be by going to the Lakers. He may manage that for a while, but I would be shocked if it last a whole season. He likes to dominate the ball too much, which will take away from Kobe (who won't let that happen). He will definately help them defensively, but will hurt their offense and rebounding, not to mention what he might do to their clubhouse.

Im not saying he is completely proven but come one now, where in the world are you getting the whole "Bynum was considered a bust" stuff from? I dont ever remember hearing that.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He was not exposed as anything. He just had the worst matchup in the league for him in KG. Odom averaged 12 pt 9board on 50% shooting. He held KG to 18 points on 44%. Really, he played him pretty tough. Gasol was the softie, and Kobe stunk. the problem with Odom in the playoffs is consistency, his average numbers for his career are really good, but he's had some stinkers. Look up Artest's playofff numbers sometime. The're awful.

14 vs 7 is a legit argument. However, Golden State could take him while they're underneath the cap. The Clippers could too. There's three-way deals. Cleveland has expirings. There's just more teams needing a talented 4 who can board, then a great defending

Artest's perceived attitude problems? If you can't concede Artest is a certified head case, then you're blinded.

Odom was mostly guarding Kendrick Perkins during that series, he didn't do that bad of a job on KG when he was actually on him. I never got why Jackson was trying to hide LO on defense and use him as a help defender when he's a better man defender than help defender.

 

[Telemachus]

Im not saying he is completely proven but come one now, where in the world are you getting the whole "Bynum was considered a bust" stuff from? I dont ever remember hearing that.

Prior to this season, I heard very few good things about Bynum from anyone. Even Kobe asked to have him traded because he wasn't working hard enough on or off the court. I'm not saying he WAS a bust, just that I heard that word used a lot in regards to him prior to this season. It was a make or break year for him in the eyes of a lot of fans.

That is probably unfair to him considering his age and his position. I happen to cosider PG and C the 2 toughest positions to learn in the NBA. That is why it usually takes longer for players to develop at those positions, while SGs, SFs, and PFs often come right in and make waves immediately.

 

[FakeInjury]

Nobody ever said anything about Al Thorton. And i doubt the Clippers are willing to get rid of him. But i dig that trade idea, as long as we get thorton.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Nobody ever said anything about Al Thorton. And i doubt the Clippers are willing to get rid of him. But i dig that trade idea, as long as we get thorton.

I highly doubt the clippers are interested in Artest (for any of their young guys) now that Brand is gone.