A commitment to defense =/= Ron Artest in and of itself. THAT'S what some of us are trying to point out. Artest has drifted away from his defensive focus and tried to be something he's not...the #1 offensive option. As long as he feels that way, and the present make-up of the team only encourages it, he isn't playing the role of defensive specialist.
Rebuild around Ron?
- Thread starter fnordius
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Now you're just being silly, IMHO.
Did you not see this season? Did you overlook the times when Artest clearly ignored the coach and did things his way?
Coaching Ron Artest isn't an easy task. Better coaches than Reggie Theus have failed in the attempt.
But this discussion is becoming totally circular and without any real progress...
It's all been said before. And it will most likely be said until Artest leaves.
I'll agree that we disagree and move on.
Did you not see this season? Did you overlook the times when Artest clearly ignored the coach and did things his way?
Coaching Ron Artest isn't an easy task. Better coaches than Reggie Theus have failed in the attempt.
But this discussion is becoming totally circular and without any real progress...
It's all been said before. And it will most likely be said until Artest leaves.
I'll agree that we disagree and move on.
Put an actual superstar next to Artest and I believe we'd see an entirely different player. Martin is too passive, and Artest knew this and knew he was the only one with a "chance" to take over a game late. Imagine having someone like Kobe next to Ron. Do you really believe Ron wouldn't defer to Kobe?
I also chuckle when people call Artest a ballhog, yet leave Martin's name out of the discussion. Martin is out there to get his points, and only his points. He's not out there to play defense, he's not out there to get assists, he is out there to look for his shot and his shot only. That is just the type of player he is.
I also chuckle when people call Artest a ballhog, yet leave Martin's name out of the discussion. Martin is out there to get his points, and only his points. He's not out there to play defense, he's not out there to get assists, he is out there to look for his shot and his shot only. That is just the type of player he is.
Never really considered O'Neal to be a superstar, always thought of him as a star. And when Artest did play with O'Neal, I don't recall him trying to take over games as much as he does now.
And I guess we'll have to just disagree on Artest ever being able to defer since I don't see us getting a superstar any time soon.
And I guess we'll have to just disagree on Artest ever being able to defer since I don't see us getting a superstar any time soon.
I don't believe that. Watch him in this interview, look at the admiration he has for Kobe. Artest even says he doesn't have the killer instinct Kobe has.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s24kx5ynRVQ
If the Lakers were to pick up Artest this offseason that would be a nightmare for the entire league.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=s24kx5ynRVQ
If the Lakers were to pick up Artest this offseason that would be a nightmare for the entire league.
I think some ppl need to tone it down a little in this thread. this could have been a good discussion thread and it has turned into a who can be the bigger smartass contest. I have been reading and or posting on this thread for about 5 or six years now and its always the same. Always 1 or 2 players that somebody really likes and others really hate. Be it Chris Webber, Peja, Bibby, Miller, KT, SAR and now Ron. Fact is you can probably find something about every NBA player be it his game or his off court occurances that you may not like. Its time to face it and realize that there is no perfect player that everyone likes.
Ron Artest plays with heart, hustle, and extreme talent. Ron thinks he is better than what he is and tends to force things. Now is he forcing for his own agenda? I don't think so. He is trying to win games when at times others may disappear in the game we are down by 20. Ron is still out there doing what he does best. He isn't trying to ruin the game. If players in the past and the present had his heart we may have a championship trophy in ARCO. I have seen some of that hear spill over into other players the last 2 years. Brad Miller is the most recent and Garcia since he was drafted. Anyway just trying to look at the good thing Ron does rather than focusing on the not so good. You can focus on the bad parts of any player and make them out to be a bum. Those that keep mentioning the ball hog or the headcase Ron seldom mention the defense and steals and his domination of his man in the post forcing double and even triple teams.
Ron Artest plays with heart, hustle, and extreme talent. Ron thinks he is better than what he is and tends to force things. Now is he forcing for his own agenda? I don't think so. He is trying to win games when at times others may disappear in the game we are down by 20. Ron is still out there doing what he does best. He isn't trying to ruin the game. If players in the past and the present had his heart we may have a championship trophy in ARCO. I have seen some of that hear spill over into other players the last 2 years. Brad Miller is the most recent and Garcia since he was drafted. Anyway just trying to look at the good thing Ron does rather than focusing on the not so good. You can focus on the bad parts of any player and make them out to be a bum. Those that keep mentioning the ball hog or the headcase Ron seldom mention the defense and steals and his domination of his man in the post forcing double and even triple teams.
Thank you!
Ron's been scapegoated waaaay too much around here. Kevin had a bad night...Blame Ron. Kings lose..Blame Ron. Kings win...Well, no thanks to Ron!
Its rediculous.
Like Entity says, every player has their faults. It was Ron who came here and turned the team from lottery bound to the surprise 8th seed that nobody wanted to get in the first round. My only complaint with the guy is that if it wasnt for him we'd probably have Oden, Durant, or Horford.
Ron's been scapegoated waaaay too much around here. Kevin had a bad night...Blame Ron. Kings lose..Blame Ron. Kings win...Well, no thanks to Ron!
Its rediculous.
Like Entity says, every player has their faults. It was Ron who came here and turned the team from lottery bound to the surprise 8th seed that nobody wanted to get in the first round. My only complaint with the guy is that if it wasnt for him we'd probably have Oden, Durant, or Horford.
Here's the deal: If you want to argue about Artest's value to the team, no problem. Go at it and give it all you've got.
BUT if you want to start making "some people" comments, you need to stop. Nothing is black and white about Ron Artest. There are lots of opinions that can be shared. And it can be done without resorting to the obvious by knocking the poster instead of the post.
Thanks all... Let the discussion continue.
BUT if you want to start making "some people" comments, you need to stop. Nothing is black and white about Ron Artest. There are lots of opinions that can be shared. And it can be done without resorting to the obvious by knocking the poster instead of the post.
Thanks all... Let the discussion continue.
I don't see anyone scapegoating Ron. I see a discussion about why Ron should or shouldn't be the centerpiece of this team. His negatives and his positives are going to be addressed in that type of discussion.
This is NOT a discussion about how awful Ron Artest is. I don't think it's resorted to that. But if you want to know if someone thinks we should build around him, and their answer is no, you should be ready to hear why not. Judging from the poll results, you're going to be wading through a lot of negatives.
And the fact of the matter is that, while Ron is good and talented, he's not a centerpiece type of player. Some are saying that if you put him next to a superstar, he'd defer and you'd see more team basketball from him. If that's the case, then he's not the type of player that you want to build around; he's a complimentary player. There's nothing wrong with that. He has his merits, but he isn't the type of all-star talent that you build a contender around. Not by any means.
Another thing that you have to take into consideration is his personality. And if you expect to sit in on a discussion about whether Ron should be the centerpiece of a team and not have his "issues" brought up, you have another thing coming. It matters that he's had problems in the past; some of them are bigger than others, and some are made out to be bigger than they really are, but they all matter.
And the only reason this is a topic for conversation, I think, is because if Ron doesn't opt out, the Kings are going to have a decision to make regarding whether to keep him around or not. If he is our most talented player, isn't the time to wonder whether or not he's "centerpiece material"? And just because the majority don't think he is doesn't mean he's being scapegoated for the fact that the Kings aren't competitive.
This is NOT a discussion about how awful Ron Artest is. I don't think it's resorted to that. But if you want to know if someone thinks we should build around him, and their answer is no, you should be ready to hear why not. Judging from the poll results, you're going to be wading through a lot of negatives.
And the fact of the matter is that, while Ron is good and talented, he's not a centerpiece type of player. Some are saying that if you put him next to a superstar, he'd defer and you'd see more team basketball from him. If that's the case, then he's not the type of player that you want to build around; he's a complimentary player. There's nothing wrong with that. He has his merits, but he isn't the type of all-star talent that you build a contender around. Not by any means.
Another thing that you have to take into consideration is his personality. And if you expect to sit in on a discussion about whether Ron should be the centerpiece of a team and not have his "issues" brought up, you have another thing coming. It matters that he's had problems in the past; some of them are bigger than others, and some are made out to be bigger than they really are, but they all matter.
And the only reason this is a topic for conversation, I think, is because if Ron doesn't opt out, the Kings are going to have a decision to make regarding whether to keep him around or not. If he is our most talented player, isn't the time to wonder whether or not he's "centerpiece material"? And just because the majority don't think he is doesn't mean he's being scapegoated for the fact that the Kings aren't competitive.
Certain players have a role to play, and Martin's is to score, and that's it. He's not the first player we've seen with that role. But that doesn't make him a ball hog.
Besides, Kevin Martin mostly gets his points in the flow of the offense, not at the expense of it. That's a clear difference between him and Ron.
Besides, Kevin Martin mostly gets his points in the flow of the offense, not at the expense of it. That's a clear difference between him and Ron.
no. ron cant be the best player on the team if you want to win a championship. that IS still the goal here in sacramento right? let me know if its not so i can stop pointing the finger at the maloofs and petrie. to be a contender on THIS team ron has to be a 2nd or 3rd option. and that fact must be indisputable.
When Martin scores 22 pt's on 9 shots and Artest scores 25 pt's on 23 shots, who the hell is the ball hog? Did you watch the games last year? Martin was the most effecient scorer on the team. If anything, he doesn't try to score enough. The knock on Martin hasn't been too much aggression. Its been that he's to passive.
Ron Artest isn't the type of player that can be the backbone of a franchise that is contending for a title. Period. He's the type of player that can possibly help the kings get back to the playoffs, which is exactly what he did back in '06, and that's as far as it will go. If you aren't moving forward in regards to winning a chip, then you are moving backwards. We have some youth, some talent that needs to be developed, and a potential playoff team in the next few years, but committing to Artest as the franchise player isn't going to put this team back on the map, and isn't going to bring them a championship.