Every player has bust potential, the only thing Collison is sure to do is hit set 3's, handle the ball well, and be a heady player; not bad, but not really much more than a backup pg/spot starter. No thanks, I'll easily give up a shot at missing out on a nice backup player for some upside and a little more bust potential. We're in a position to be a little desperate for some upside since we're a long way off from competing but only have a late lotto pick.
Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
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Assuming Jordan, Westbrook and Randolph are taken at our pick I like McGee, Spreights and I wouldn't mind reaching for Thompson if he looks like he is going closer to mid-first rather than late-first. If I had to pick one today, it would be McGee.
McGee: Called a "late-bloomer" that was underdrafted. Then he had to spend his freshman year behind Fazekas. (Fazekas BTW, has made a seamless transition to the NBA where he is averaging 4.7/3.9/.5blk in 11.8 min with the Clippers) So I'm less than worried about the fact that he doesn't come from one of the "mainstream" schools. Has all the right attributes...size/athleticism/defense/quickness that I am looking for in a 2008 first round draft pick. He has soft hands around the hoop and plays above the rim. And since his parents were both professional basketball players, I think he will make a good professional (hard working, quality character).
If we pick McGee, I would like to see him sacrifice a little of his speed for some more strength. He is freakishly fast for his size and would still have above average speed even if he gets up to 250 lbs. Although many have him listed as a C, I think he could play PF. He has quite a ways to go as a man-defender, but so does every big available at our pick. I'm thinking that this is more on the coaches than the players. His help defense is OK, with his long arms, lateral quickness and explosiveness off the floor, so he has all of the attributes to be a good help defender.
McGee: Called a "late-bloomer" that was underdrafted. Then he had to spend his freshman year behind Fazekas. (Fazekas BTW, has made a seamless transition to the NBA where he is averaging 4.7/3.9/.5blk in 11.8 min with the Clippers) So I'm less than worried about the fact that he doesn't come from one of the "mainstream" schools. Has all the right attributes...size/athleticism/defense/quickness that I am looking for in a 2008 first round draft pick. He has soft hands around the hoop and plays above the rim. And since his parents were both professional basketball players, I think he will make a good professional (hard working, quality character).
If we pick McGee, I would like to see him sacrifice a little of his speed for some more strength. He is freakishly fast for his size and would still have above average speed even if he gets up to 250 lbs. Although many have him listed as a C, I think he could play PF. He has quite a ways to go as a man-defender, but so does every big available at our pick. I'm thinking that this is more on the coaches than the players. His help defense is OK, with his long arms, lateral quickness and explosiveness off the floor, so he has all of the attributes to be a good help defender.
Shh... Robin is on my sleeper list. He could impress in the workouts enough to move up around where we are. His man defense is actually pretty good, good enough to keep up with perimeter PFs (ask Ryan Anderson). If he sharpens up his post moves--which he did show some flashes of last season, but I wish he had gone back to Stanford to be The Man inside--he could sneak up on some people.
McGee was the same guy that gave up like 36 points, and 18 boards to Ryan Anderson. Think about Kevin Love 1 on 1 D, but a bit worse int he team D.. If you are worried about Love then watch out for McGee 
It kind of sucks, doesn't it, that this year's bumper crop of bigs is so full of guys with lousy D? McGee and Speights will have to learn some aspects defense from scratch, and most of the others aren't far behind. If we want a defensive big, barring some unthinkable miracle giving us a much higher pick (#1?), we'd be looking at someone like Robin Lopez, who seems fine, but who I doubt we'd get unless Petrie traded for a later first rounder.
Which, when you're absolutely dying for a defensive big, is unfortunate.
Which, when you're absolutely dying for a defensive big, is unfortunate.
As it stands now though McGee is worse than Love.. Can he improve? sure why not.. Will he? Not sure.. Can Love improve? Sure... Will he? not sure.. McGee has better quickness, Love has better "bulk/size" (in a width kind of way, not height). Love plays better team D then McGee, probably due to better BBall IQ. Not saying who will be better defensively because I don't know, but right now Love is. And that's not saying a lot.
McGee was the same guy that gave up like 36 points, and 18 boards to Ryan Anderson. Think about Kevin Love 1 on 1 D, but a bit worse int he team D.. If you are worried about Love then watch out for McGee
Love can improve a little, McGee can improve a lot. Also, like nbarans said, he can add bulk and strength. Sure we don't know if he's going to improve on it or not, that's not the point; the point is he has the potential and that's worth more than not having the potential at all. Is Love the better college defender? Probably, but it's not about who is the better college player, it's about who projects better in the NBA and McGee has much better tools FOR THE NBA.
I think there are plenty of big men in the history of the NBA from Benoit Benjamin to the Kandi Man that, if they had worked harder, had more desire, and partied less, they'd be franchise players.
Usually, there's one guy like that in a draft, but this one seems to be filled with them. I don't think anyone can argue that JaVale McGee and DeAndre Jordan, or M. Speights have huge upside. But at the end of the day, it's up to them to live up to the potential. You almost have to get inside the minds of the youngster to see if he has the will to work hard after he signed that million dollar contract.
As far as I could remember, the Kandi Man actually worked very hard in college. But once he had his payday he was like "I am done working!" Amare always had that competitive spirit but his background scared off some team, he turns out alright to say the least. Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown, and Eddy Curry had questions about their desire; Chandler turned out alright, Curry is a bum, and Brown is a scrub. So it's almost like a crab shoot, imo.
Out of all the high risk/high reward guys, McGee seems to me, the most likely bust, just by reading the scouting report (never saw him play). He doesn't always play hard and never passes the ball, that sounds horribly like Eddy Curry (mentally speaking). But maybe he just needs better coaching. I don't know. I'm not saying we don't draft him because you can't ignore his high ceiling. I'm saying he sounds like the type of pick that can get a GM fired or win championships.
Same goes for Anthony Randolph, Jordan, and Speights. I think Speights is probably the less risky pick out of those high risk guys. But if he really has that kind of ceiling he probably won't be there when we pick. It's going to be interesting to see if GP goes for the sure single or swing for the fences. I have a feeling he isn't the gambling type, but we'll see.
Usually, there's one guy like that in a draft, but this one seems to be filled with them. I don't think anyone can argue that JaVale McGee and DeAndre Jordan, or M. Speights have huge upside. But at the end of the day, it's up to them to live up to the potential. You almost have to get inside the minds of the youngster to see if he has the will to work hard after he signed that million dollar contract.
As far as I could remember, the Kandi Man actually worked very hard in college. But once he had his payday he was like "I am done working!" Amare always had that competitive spirit but his background scared off some team, he turns out alright to say the least. Tyson Chandler, Kwame Brown, and Eddy Curry had questions about their desire; Chandler turned out alright, Curry is a bum, and Brown is a scrub. So it's almost like a crab shoot, imo.
Out of all the high risk/high reward guys, McGee seems to me, the most likely bust, just by reading the scouting report (never saw him play). He doesn't always play hard and never passes the ball, that sounds horribly like Eddy Curry (mentally speaking). But maybe he just needs better coaching. I don't know. I'm not saying we don't draft him because you can't ignore his high ceiling. I'm saying he sounds like the type of pick that can get a GM fired or win championships.
Same goes for Anthony Randolph, Jordan, and Speights. I think Speights is probably the less risky pick out of those high risk guys. But if he really has that kind of ceiling he probably won't be there when we pick. It's going to be interesting to see if GP goes for the sure single or swing for the fences. I have a feeling he isn't the gambling type, but we'll see.
But the "tools" you speak of are just athleticism and height. That's it.. Love has tools too. BBall IQ, and experience playing at a higher level. It's not like he has no chance at all compared to this monstrous chance for McGee. That's not true. Some say that crappy defenders remain pretty much crappy forever or at best a non-liability.
If I had to guess where both will end up landing on the defensive scale is non-liability team defenders for both of them, but crappy one on one D (both Love, and McGee). As for weak side defense and weak side shot blocking I will give that edge to McGee since he has the height and athleticism.
If I had to guess where both will end up landing on the defensive scale is non-liability team defenders for both of them, but crappy one on one D (both Love, and McGee). As for weak side defense and weak side shot blocking I will give that edge to McGee since he has the height and athleticism.
Yah I used my friends slingbox who lives in Reno to catch their games. It was shown on Local cable in Reno (I used to go to UNR so I have followed them back since the Faron Hand days)
As for who defended It was actually both Johnson, and McGee defending. there was a lot of double teaming on Anderson. Johnson is the better defender though. It's been a while since seeing the game, but I remember that Anderson was going off, and they were throwing double and triple teams at him. They even brought in David Ellis because Johnson fouled out.
As for who defended It was actually both Johnson, and McGee defending. there was a lot of double teaming on Anderson. Johnson is the better defender though. It's been a while since seeing the game, but I remember that Anderson was going off, and they were throwing double and triple teams at him. They even brought in David Ellis because Johnson fouled out.
alright, the last three or so pages of this thread is making me sick .. why are we forcing ourself into drafting a big if talent wise its really not worth it .. even if ron stays, salmons doesnt get traded and we keep beno/martin/garcia i think we should go with the best player available. i'll get some bashing for this but picking up some aweful tall man just cause thats what we need when we could get a good player seems rediculous .. bottom line is this year we are in the lottery and whether we draft mcgee, lopez, spreights or BATUM, DANILLO,Westbrook GORDON ( i personally think he will be there when we pick and if he is and we dont draft him i'll be pissed ) we will be in the lottery again next year ... i just think as kings fans we havent had a decent pf since webber and we all want one, but i guess we have to be even more patient because it just wouldnt be the right move this year ( unless someone falls )
think about it though .. doesnt make sense...give shelden 1 full year to be our defensive big .. he's better than the guys where tallking about now...
1 more thing .. i dont think the talent drop off from mcgee, spreights, lopez to hibbert, harden and some euro bigs that will be there in rnd2 is as big as the talent dropoff in guards
think about it though .. doesnt make sense...give shelden 1 full year to be our defensive big .. he's better than the guys where tallking about now...
1 more thing .. i dont think the talent drop off from mcgee, spreights, lopez to hibbert, harden and some euro bigs that will be there in rnd2 is as big as the talent dropoff in guards
The SG/SF talent pool is a bit diluted this year.
At SF you have Gallinari, Batum, Randolph, and Douglas-Roberts. You might be able to throw Tyler Smith into the mix but I don't like his lack of outside shooting at SF..
At SG you have Mayo, Gordon, Budinger, and Rush...
At PF (listing players that can play PF/C too) you have Beasley, Lopez, Jordan, Love, Speights, McGee, Arthur, Greene, Hansbrough, Robin Lopez, Thompson, White, Anderson, Hendrix, Hickson, Ibaka, Koufos, ect ect ect...
A lot of talented players in this years draft that can play PF. Think about two years ago when guys like Hilton Armstrong, Josh Boone, Cedric Simmons, Saer Sene, Patrick O'Bryant, and many others that were all talked about as being potential lottery-late teens. Compare to the list above.. This is a PF draft, and that happens to be our most pressing need so might as well go for it!
At SF you have Gallinari, Batum, Randolph, and Douglas-Roberts. You might be able to throw Tyler Smith into the mix but I don't like his lack of outside shooting at SF..
At SG you have Mayo, Gordon, Budinger, and Rush...
At PF (listing players that can play PF/C too) you have Beasley, Lopez, Jordan, Love, Speights, McGee, Arthur, Greene, Hansbrough, Robin Lopez, Thompson, White, Anderson, Hendrix, Hickson, Ibaka, Koufos, ect ect ect...
A lot of talented players in this years draft that can play PF. Think about two years ago when guys like Hilton Armstrong, Josh Boone, Cedric Simmons, Saer Sene, Patrick O'Bryant, and many others that were all talked about as being potential lottery-late teens. Compare to the list above.. This is a PF draft, and that happens to be our most pressing need so might as well go for it!
We're talking physical tools here, don't act like they don't play a huge role in defense. Obviously IQ and experience (which McGee will eventually gain) come into play too, but these are things that aren't as important as the unteachable qualities of athleticism and length.
And who said McGee had a monstrous chance?
And who said McGee had a monstrous chance?
Gordon, we might be talking. But, just a few minutes ago, I was going over the 20 mock drafts from last year that were polled on the NBA site, and seeing how everyone did. Out of the 20, only one got even the top 5 right (it got 6, actually), and that was by the guy over at MSNBC. This year he has Gordon at #3.
An approach I used last May was to take three mock drafts which I didn't think were horrible (ESPN, DraftExpress, and NBADraft) and looked for consensus. They agreed about the top 10 almost completely, and were 90% correct -- the only thing they missed was the dropping of Julian Wright.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20406
If I do the same right now, we wind up with:
1. Beasley
2. Rose
3,4,5. Bayless, Lopez and Mayo, in one order or another
6,7. Gordon and (2/3) Gallinari or (ESPN only) Augustin
8,9. Randolph and (2/3) Love or (NBADraft only) Westbrook
10. Jordan
11. Westbrook(ESPN)/McGee(NBADraft)/Augustin(DraftExpress)
Based on those, I personally don't care to discuss Beasley, Rose, Bayless, Brook Lopez, Mayo, Gordon, Gallinari, Randolph, Love or Jordan, because any of those seem like very long shots at this point. If that changes later, maybe then.
NBADraft, which I consider the least reliable of the 3, has us taking Batum at 12. The
other two don't have him going in the lottery, so it seems pretty sure that he'll be available. If you want to argue that he's clearly the BPA at #12, by a wide enough margin that we have to ignore need, I think that's great, but let's not make things any harder by worrying about guys that are out of reach.
An approach I used last May was to take three mock drafts which I didn't think were horrible (ESPN, DraftExpress, and NBADraft) and looked for consensus. They agreed about the top 10 almost completely, and were 90% correct -- the only thing they missed was the dropping of Julian Wright.
http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20406
If I do the same right now, we wind up with:
1. Beasley
2. Rose
3,4,5. Bayless, Lopez and Mayo, in one order or another
6,7. Gordon and (2/3) Gallinari or (ESPN only) Augustin
8,9. Randolph and (2/3) Love or (NBADraft only) Westbrook
10. Jordan
11. Westbrook(ESPN)/McGee(NBADraft)/Augustin(DraftExpress)
Based on those, I personally don't care to discuss Beasley, Rose, Bayless, Brook Lopez, Mayo, Gordon, Gallinari, Randolph, Love or Jordan, because any of those seem like very long shots at this point. If that changes later, maybe then.
NBADraft, which I consider the least reliable of the 3, has us taking Batum at 12. The
other two don't have him going in the lottery, so it seems pretty sure that he'll be available. If you want to argue that he's clearly the BPA at #12, by a wide enough margin that we have to ignore need, I think that's great, but let's not make things any harder by worrying about guys that are out of reach.
A guy on my radar as a sleeper pick this year is Earl Clark, I watched a LOT of his games this year and he looks like a Danny Granger type player to me. Can hit the outside shot, blocks a lot of shots for his size, has a knack for grabbing that CRITICAL offensive rebound(and is a fabulous rebounder overall). The guy has SKILLS and has the talent/potential to be a big time player. He's not being mentioned much, but I REALLY like the idea of nabbing this kid. He could play the 4/3 a lot like a Marvin Williams/Danny Granger/Travis OUtlaw/Andray Blatche type. He's a pretty good player overall and probably only Granger will be better than him of all those players.
Clark appears to be returning to Louisville for next season.
http://tinyurl.com/6mpche
(From Fox Sports)
http://tinyurl.com/6mpche
(From Fox Sports)
I have to agree with you on this one. I've watched McGee play twice and I have a friend who lives in north Lake Tahoe who is a total UNR basketball nut. He's seen almost every game and he thinks that McGee is one of the worst defenders he's ever seen. From what I've seen, he's a terrible passer and never gives up the ball. He seems to lose interest when he's not involved. My God, he has a 4 turnover to 1 assist ratio, and he gets scored on by guys a lot smaller than him.
As far as guarding Hardin and holding him single digits. Big deal. If he were a good defender he would have been guarding Anderson. Anyone who has watched Cal play knows that Anderson is their go to guy and big scorer.
As far as guarding Hardin and holding him single digits. Big deal. If he were a good defender he would have been guarding Anderson. Anyone who has watched Cal play knows that Anderson is their go to guy and big scorer.
McGee is slated to go in the lottery on some mocks, and in the 20s on others. I think 20s is about right for his size and athleticism alone, but it's a real high risk pick based on the horrible defending. I am sure there were scouts, and the GMs should know what they are getting when they draft him.
I think I actually like Arthur the best out of those guys because he plays the best D. Randolph has the most potential but also could be most likely to be a bust, Speights is kinda inbetween, and Arthur is the most sure thing out of the group IMO. I see Arthur as kinda like Rasheed Wallace(as far as style of play goes) in prime McDyess' body except he doesn't take 3 pointers. Speights reminds me of Al Jefferson a lot. Randolph could be KG or he could be Lamar Odom or he could be Channing Frye so I dunno about him.
But since we don't see like we'll really have a superstar, we're probably going to have to think about building a more complimentary team. I dunno if Speights doesn't develop defensively, if you win with a Speights/Hawes frontline defensively. But Arthur is a really good defender IMO, he just has some foul trouble that takes him out of games at times. Speights has a lot of room to improve on D but I dunno if he ever will. He has the potential/tools to do it but he's going to have to work on it.
S
Marreese Speights is a stud... he only avg. 24 mins and his line was 14 pts 8 reb. with 1.4 blocks. on par with the other two gaiters that have transitioned to being solid pros(Noah, and Al H.). however he is younger than the two when they declared. So yeah he's still growing in alot of areas but i look at Speights as a lock...