Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??
- Thread starter =LarryLegend=
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I used to go to UNR, and still have friends that live in Reno. They let me bounce off their slingbox when they were showing UNR games on local cable.. Not too impressive, but he does have potential. I hate that "small school" myth associated with schools like UNR because they play in an ever growing conference. The WAC has teams like NM St., UNR, Boisie St., Utah St., Fresno St., and San Jose St. who are (or can be) decent teams on any given year. I like to think of the WAC as "Pac-10 lite".
Anyhow, McGee played well, but I don't think he did "lottery well". McGee needs to work on his defense. He is always committing those stupid fouls which could plague him in the NBA. It seemed he was always on the verge of foul trouble, or already in it during the games I saw this year. He did box out well, and he is strong on the inside. He wasn't a good FT shooter. At about 50% which totally sucks..
On the other hand Marreese Speights played very well in his per 40s last year, and this year lived up to the per 40 hype by equaling it at a higher MPG rate. So if I had to choose I would say Speights.
Anyhow, McGee played well, but I don't think he did "lottery well". McGee needs to work on his defense. He is always committing those stupid fouls which could plague him in the NBA. It seemed he was always on the verge of foul trouble, or already in it during the games I saw this year. He did box out well, and he is strong on the inside. He wasn't a good FT shooter. At about 50% which totally sucks..
On the other hand Marreese Speights played very well in his per 40s last year, and this year lived up to the per 40 hype by equaling it at a higher MPG rate. So if I had to choose I would say Speights.
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Or Stephane Lasme, a tweener forward and excellent shotblocker. Between the time he got drafted and waived, Nellie gave him a whopping 4 seconds of PT. He finished the year as Miami's starting PF, where he performed quite acceptably.
Sadly, Sac is the second worst destination for young players, but we never seriously threatened Nellie's last place.
Sadly, Sac is the second worst destination for young players, but we never seriously threatened Nellie's last place.
Wait. Now I'm confused. I had missed Lasme when I scanned the draft, so I assumed you were talking about J. Davidson. But it looks like Davidson didn't ever make the team - he made his way to Charlotte and never played a minute with the GSW as far as I could tell.
Ah, I see. You must have been talking about Perovic, who was a 2006 second rounder. Still a rookie this year, and yet another young guy absent from any real consideration for PT.
I don't know if that's entirely true. We've taken it pretty easy breaking in rookies lately, but aside from Hawes (injured early, decent-while-not-great minutes late) we haven't had a lotto pick in a while and lesser talents probably take a bit longer to get adjusted.
Both Kevin and Garcia saw decent minutes in their first two seasons, and were clearly in the rotation by the end of their second season. Hawes is there now after one. Douby? Probably not that good. The other players we haven't given a lot of time to include a rotation of big-man pickups (J. Williams, Watkins, the guy from Cal whose name I can't recall...) none of whom were good enough to stick with another team after we let them go. Even so, I can't think of any non-injured players we've had lately who didn't sniff at least token PT aside from Kenny and Lorenzen, but they're not young. Doesn't look like such a bad record to me.
Ah, I see. You must have been talking about Perovic, who was a 2006 second rounder. Still a rookie this year, and yet another young guy absent from any real consideration for PT.
I don't know if that's entirely true. We've taken it pretty easy breaking in rookies lately, but aside from Hawes (injured early, decent-while-not-great minutes late) we haven't had a lotto pick in a while and lesser talents probably take a bit longer to get adjusted.
Both Kevin and Garcia saw decent minutes in their first two seasons, and were clearly in the rotation by the end of their second season. Hawes is there now after one. Douby? Probably not that good. The other players we haven't given a lot of time to include a rotation of big-man pickups (J. Williams, Watkins, the guy from Cal whose name I can't recall...) none of whom were good enough to stick with another team after we let them go. Even so, I can't think of any non-injured players we've had lately who didn't sniff at least token PT aside from Kenny and Lorenzen, but they're not young. Doesn't look like such a bad record to me.
It does get confusing, because virtually none of their younger players get the PT they would elsewhere. Take your pick.
I was thinking only of this year (what Muss or Adelman may have done is kind of moot now), and not really considering 3rd-4th year players as noobs. And, although Douby has definitely gotten the short end of the stick, I wasn't focusing a lot on him, either, though his lack of minutes would seem to be our fault one way or the other -- Geoff didn't pick the BPA, didn't pick someone who we could use at all, or both. I was thinking more of the guys we really needed, but still didn't play.
Hawes: got the 2nd least minutes of any lottery pick, leading only GS's guy. Would have been worse but for Brad's injury.
Shelden Williams: sat until forced into play at the last minute by injuries.
Justin Williams: sat, and got waived, despite doing a very respectable job of making the team better. More so than Udrih, Bibby, Garcia, Moore or Salmons. (see: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708SAC.HTM )
Dahntay Jones: same as Justin.
I was thinking only of this year (what Muss or Adelman may have done is kind of moot now), and not really considering 3rd-4th year players as noobs. And, although Douby has definitely gotten the short end of the stick, I wasn't focusing a lot on him, either, though his lack of minutes would seem to be our fault one way or the other -- Geoff didn't pick the BPA, didn't pick someone who we could use at all, or both. I was thinking more of the guys we really needed, but still didn't play.
Hawes: got the 2nd least minutes of any lottery pick, leading only GS's guy. Would have been worse but for Brad's injury.
Shelden Williams: sat until forced into play at the last minute by injuries.
Justin Williams: sat, and got waived, despite doing a very respectable job of making the team better. More so than Udrih, Bibby, Garcia, Moore or Salmons. (see: http://www.82games.com/0708/0708SAC.HTM )
Dahntay Jones: same as Justin.
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They were done yesterday. Minny won the tie with Memphis, New York with L.A., and I remember hearing Phoenix won with Houston
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3353684
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=nba&id=3353684
Assuming that Brand and Livingston are back in good form by the start of next season, the Clips should be in a lot better shape than either us or NY next season, no matter what happens in the lottery. I wouldn't worry about 'em.
As for the Knicks, well, they're now down one major bozo, only a few left to go.
As for the Knicks, well, they're now down one major bozo, only a few left to go.
Okay, I guess I'm ready to post an ultra-tentative wish list, version 0.1 (alpha)
Although I'm concerned about Speights' D, I'm liking him as a project, and he's usually projected to still be available at #12, so here's one iteration:
1st round: Speights
2nd round: Omer Asik (defensive big) and Lester Hudson (so that Geoff gets his combo shooter, and we get our backup PG)
Alternate version
1st round: Westbrook - PG/shooter needs met
2nd round: Omer Asik and Joey Dorsey - Two defensive bigs.
That's not to say that I think we'll get those, but if the scouting reports are any good, I'd be content with either combination.
As for guessing what Geoff will actually do, I'm going to wait until the draft's a lot closer. Before that, I won't know what the scariest possibilities are.
Until then, I hope we don't have a lot of guys dropping out. That hurt us quite a bit last year, in my opinion.
Although I'm concerned about Speights' D, I'm liking him as a project, and he's usually projected to still be available at #12, so here's one iteration:
1st round: Speights
2nd round: Omer Asik (defensive big) and Lester Hudson (so that Geoff gets his combo shooter, and we get our backup PG)
Alternate version
1st round: Westbrook - PG/shooter needs met
2nd round: Omer Asik and Joey Dorsey - Two defensive bigs.
That's not to say that I think we'll get those, but if the scouting reports are any good, I'd be content with either combination.
As for guessing what Geoff will actually do, I'm going to wait until the draft's a lot closer. Before that, I won't know what the scariest possibilities are.
Until then, I hope we don't have a lot of guys dropping out. That hurt us quite a bit last year, in my opinion.
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As of now these are my picks. This could change as we get closer to the draft.
1st round. Speights (Best athletic project that comes closest to being a safe pick at PF.)
2nd round. D.J. White ( Insurance at the PF position. Solid player in the low post and good rebounder at college level.)
2nd round. De Marcus Nelson ( Underrated PG from sacramento who never really had the chance to prove himself. Good defender.
Second choice:
1st round. Augustine ( A little small for the league, but a solid player who I think can adapt and be a good, if not great PG. Jury is still out.
2nd round. D.J. White. ( Reasons stated above.)
2nd round. Nathan Jawai. (At this point in the draft, why not take a flyer on someone who is a freak of nature but raw. He would be a good Developmental league Prospect)
1st round. Speights (Best athletic project that comes closest to being a safe pick at PF.)
2nd round. D.J. White ( Insurance at the PF position. Solid player in the low post and good rebounder at college level.)
2nd round. De Marcus Nelson ( Underrated PG from sacramento who never really had the chance to prove himself. Good defender.
Second choice:
1st round. Augustine ( A little small for the league, but a solid player who I think can adapt and be a good, if not great PG. Jury is still out.
2nd round. D.J. White. ( Reasons stated above.)
2nd round. Nathan Jawai. (At this point in the draft, why not take a flyer on someone who is a freak of nature but raw. He would be a good Developmental league Prospect)
Here is my wish list, trying to keep it as realistic as possible...
First Round;
1) Kevin Love - PF that can board, pass, and shoot.
2) Marreese Speights - athletic PF with godly per40 stats both frosh/soph years.
3) Russell Westbrook - PG that has size, and imo did a better job running UCLA then Collison.
4) DJ Augustin - Quick on his feet, able to get to the hoop against taller defenders, decent shooter.
Second Round;
1) Kyle Weaver - combo guard with the height, and ball handling skills to try him out as a PG.
2) DJ White - athletic, rebounding, long wingspan, and good inside play.
3) DeMarcus Nelson - hometown hero from Sheldon high. Didn't do well in Duke offense, but is one of those players that can take over a game at any time. 1st round talent.
4) Sean Singletary - good point guard skills, but a bit small. worth a 2nd rounder though.
5) Trent Plaisted - probably will go back to school, because he's not guaranteed to be a 1st rounder. If there wasn't as many bigs this year he could be first round talent.
6) Goran Dragic - size, ball skills, and fundamentals all packaged in one player.
7) JJ Hickson - one of three very talented 6'8 PFs should be available in the second round.
8) Richard Hendrix - Like above a 6'8 PF who if was 6'10 would be a first round pick.
Any of the above I will be happy if we draft. The picks are in no particular order, basically I don't mind if we draft Westbrook if Love is available, or Speights if Augustin is.
First Round;
1) Kevin Love - PF that can board, pass, and shoot.
2) Marreese Speights - athletic PF with godly per40 stats both frosh/soph years.
3) Russell Westbrook - PG that has size, and imo did a better job running UCLA then Collison.
4) DJ Augustin - Quick on his feet, able to get to the hoop against taller defenders, decent shooter.
Second Round;
1) Kyle Weaver - combo guard with the height, and ball handling skills to try him out as a PG.
2) DJ White - athletic, rebounding, long wingspan, and good inside play.
3) DeMarcus Nelson - hometown hero from Sheldon high. Didn't do well in Duke offense, but is one of those players that can take over a game at any time. 1st round talent.
4) Sean Singletary - good point guard skills, but a bit small. worth a 2nd rounder though.
5) Trent Plaisted - probably will go back to school, because he's not guaranteed to be a 1st rounder. If there wasn't as many bigs this year he could be first round talent.
6) Goran Dragic - size, ball skills, and fundamentals all packaged in one player.
7) JJ Hickson - one of three very talented 6'8 PFs should be available in the second round.
8) Richard Hendrix - Like above a 6'8 PF who if was 6'10 would be a first round pick.
Any of the above I will be happy if we draft. The picks are in no particular order, basically I don't mind if we draft Westbrook if Love is available, or Speights if Augustin is.
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I think McGee is a better prospect than Speights. I just don't trust Speights' understanding of the game. He's athletic and coordinated, but it always seemed to add up to less than the sum of his parts. McGee is a baller with incredible athleticism. He could be another Chris Bosh.
Of the point guards I still like Collison better than Augustin -- just don't think Augustin has the quickness to overcome his lack of height. His game against Rose was eye-opening. He was completely taken off his game. Collison also struggled against Memphis, but a lot of his struggling was missing wide-open shots that he normally makes. He got to the rim a lot, he just wasn't finishing, and he was off his rhythm due to foul trouble. To me Augustin's matchup against Rose was worse than Collison's.
I'd also add Robin Lopez to the list. I hvae no idea why he's ranked so low. He's not a great man defender, but he's really improving on offense, he can block shots, and he's athletic. Since when did that translate to a late first round pick?
So barring someone unexpectedly falling, there's my three: McGee, Collison and Lopez
Of the point guards I still like Collison better than Augustin -- just don't think Augustin has the quickness to overcome his lack of height. His game against Rose was eye-opening. He was completely taken off his game. Collison also struggled against Memphis, but a lot of his struggling was missing wide-open shots that he normally makes. He got to the rim a lot, he just wasn't finishing, and he was off his rhythm due to foul trouble. To me Augustin's matchup against Rose was worse than Collison's.
I'd also add Robin Lopez to the list. I hvae no idea why he's ranked so low. He's not a great man defender, but he's really improving on offense, he can block shots, and he's athletic. Since when did that translate to a late first round pick?
So barring someone unexpectedly falling, there's my three: McGee, Collison and Lopez
I gotta disagree with you on McGee and Agree with you on Collison. Collison > Augustin.
However, I cna't trust McGee at all. Name me ONE lotto pick PF/C prospect that has ever amounted to ANYTHING in the NBA that has come out of NCAA Podunk University in the last 10-15 years?
Olowakandi - check
Patrick O'Bryant - Check
Cedric Simmons - Check
All these TYPE of picks turn out terrible. Just steer clear of McGee.
I'd rank them as:
1)Love
2)Speights
3)Arthur
4)McGee
With a very slim difference between Arthur and Speights
However, I cna't trust McGee at all. Name me ONE lotto pick PF/C prospect that has ever amounted to ANYTHING in the NBA that has come out of NCAA Podunk University in the last 10-15 years?
Olowakandi - check
Patrick O'Bryant - Check
Cedric Simmons - Check
All these TYPE of picks turn out terrible. Just steer clear of McGee.
I'd rank them as:
1)Love
2)Speights
3)Arthur
4)McGee
With a very slim difference between Arthur and Speights
I watch what I say about those small schools after seeing the last 6 or so Milwaukee games...
Sessions was friggin awesome, and he came from the same Nevada team that had Fazekas, and McGee playing for them last year. Also, watching the LAC game against the Kings and seeing Fazekas getting some minutes (finally) I think he could be a good role player off the bench. Maybe a poor mans Christian Laettner (when in his prime) 1992-1997.
Sessions was friggin awesome, and he came from the same Nevada team that had Fazekas, and McGee playing for them last year. Also, watching the LAC game against the Kings and seeing Fazekas getting some minutes (finally) I think he could be a good role player off the bench. Maybe a poor mans Christian Laettner (when in his prime) 1992-1997.
Yeah, we probably should have passed on Kevin Martin because he went to a podunk college too. Makes total sense, Smills91, as usual.
Pulling the Kevin Martin card is COMPLETELY disregarding ANYTHING I said. You're completely ignoring what I asked.
Schools are like NBA teams too, they don't MISS big men, they just don't. Plus there are too many schools to let a potentially talented big man slip. The big time programs find them and latch onto them.
Guards can fall under the radar and develop their games at a later age(by going unnoticed) since there are many more people closer to 6'4 than 6'10.
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I don't think a role playing starter is such a bad thing at #12. You can't really hope for a whole lot more at that position. Both those guys project to very decent players. The worst case for Collison is Earl Watson, Lopez is like a taller Verejao. I don't really see how either have a whole lot of bust potential.
Good bigs from small colleges?
Most of the best bigs right now didn't go to college at all, but I'll give it a shot. Since it's subjective what qualifies as a small college, I'll list a few.
How about Cuyahoga Community College + Div II Virginia Union (Ben Wallace)?
Southwest Texas State (Jeff Foster)?
Central Michigan (Kaman)?
Georgia Tech (Bosh)?
Louisiana Tech (Millsap)?
EDIT: On looking back over it, I see you said that they had to be picked in the lottery. Most aren't, of course, small college players rarely get that sort of hype, so like our own Brad (Purdue), they get crappy draft position. But what difference should that make? To me, that just shows that a lot of managers have been lousy at finding talent in backwater schools. It's not a persuasive argument that we shouldn't even consider a big from a little school. Unless you'd consider that going in the lottery put some sort of curse on them, or something... ?
Most of the best bigs right now didn't go to college at all, but I'll give it a shot. Since it's subjective what qualifies as a small college, I'll list a few.
How about Cuyahoga Community College + Div II Virginia Union (Ben Wallace)?
Southwest Texas State (Jeff Foster)?
Central Michigan (Kaman)?
Georgia Tech (Bosh)?
Louisiana Tech (Millsap)?
EDIT: On looking back over it, I see you said that they had to be picked in the lottery. Most aren't, of course, small college players rarely get that sort of hype, so like our own Brad (Purdue), they get crappy draft position. But what difference should that make? To me, that just shows that a lot of managers have been lousy at finding talent in backwater schools. It's not a persuasive argument that we shouldn't even consider a big from a little school. Unless you'd consider that going in the lottery put some sort of curse on them, or something... ?
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Good bigs from small colleges?
Most of the best bigs right now didn't go to college at all, but I'll give it a shot. Since it's subjective what qualifies as a small college, I'll list a few.
How about Cuyahoga Community College + Div II Virginia Union (Ben Wallace)?
Southwest Texas State (Jeff Foster)?
Central Michigan (Kaman)?
Georgia Tech (Bosh)?
Louisiana Tech (Millsap)?
EDIT: On looking back over it, I see you said that they had to be picked in the lottery. Most aren't, of course, small college players rarely get that sort of hype, so like our own Brad (Purdue), they get crappy draft position. But what difference should that make? To me, that just shows that a lot of managers have been lousy at finding talent in backwater schools. It's not a persuasive argument that we shouldn't even consider a big from a little school. Unless you'd consider that going in the lottery put some sort of curse on them, or something... ?
Most of the best bigs right now didn't go to college at all, but I'll give it a shot. Since it's subjective what qualifies as a small college, I'll list a few.
How about Cuyahoga Community College + Div II Virginia Union (Ben Wallace)?
Southwest Texas State (Jeff Foster)?
Central Michigan (Kaman)?
Georgia Tech (Bosh)?
Louisiana Tech (Millsap)?
EDIT: On looking back over it, I see you said that they had to be picked in the lottery. Most aren't, of course, small college players rarely get that sort of hype, so like our own Brad (Purdue), they get crappy draft position. But what difference should that make? To me, that just shows that a lot of managers have been lousy at finding talent in backwater schools. It's not a persuasive argument that we shouldn't even consider a big from a little school. Unless you'd consider that going in the lottery put some sort of curse on them, or something... ?