Rebuild around Ron?

[fnordius]

This quote from the last Theus interview set me to thinking... asked about Artest's long-term role with the team, he said the following:

"That is more of a franchise decision and a directional decision. And until I sit down with Geoff and those guys and really discuss everything, I really couldn't even get into that. But that decision that is going to be made here is something that's going to last for the next four or five years, so yeah, it's a directional thing that we have to deal with."

Even the bleakest pessimists must believe that we will get around to rebuilding in less than 4-5 years, so I'm taking this as implying that we might rebuild the team around Ron.

What do you think about that prospect?

 

[Entity]

If Ron could understand his role is the power guy inside taking advantage of mismatches and taking perimeter shots only when its a drive and kick by a teamate leaving him wide open. forcing an 18 footer while being double teamed isn't very smart. Basically Ron needs to trust his teamates. That is what his game lacks the most. Most people think he is just chunking up shots for his own statistical purposes. I believe he doesn't trust his teamates to make the shot down the stretch of games. I think that goes for the whole team in fact they need to trust each other more. That is reason assists were down this year.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Tell me why "absolutely not"? hes the best player on the team, he brings more heart then any other player on the team. He causes the most mismatches which would be great in the playoffs.. what other kings player can you say that about..none.
yah he chucks up some ill advised shots sometimes.. so what so does everyone its just everyone notices it more because its INSANE ron artest
its funny because he still shot a good percentage on the year
45 % fg 37 % 3pt...
hes perfect beside martin because he can guard the best player which is a load off martin if its a SG and the important thing is Artest WANTS to guard the best player.
He's the leader right now whether you like it or not and he deserves that role on the team just because of his great play.


I just don't see why everyone wants him gone.. he is a GREAT player, a rare player, hes more stable then in the past, and most of all he wants to win in a kings uniform..

 

[Bricklayer]

He's the leader right now whether you like it or not and he deserves that role on the team just because of his great play.


I just don't see why everyone wants him gone.. he is a GREAT player, a rare player, hes more stable then in the past, and most of all he wants to win in a kings uniform..

You are talking about rebuilding around an unstable person. That is..unwise to say the least.

You are also talking about rebuilding around an unstable person who has made it out of the first round of the playoffs exactly once in his career.

And you are talking about "rebuilding" around a 29 yr old, meaning your great rebuilding centerpiece might, might, be able to give you 4-5 years tops before he starts to slow. So you get short window, with a player that is a constant distraction and who was even threatening to retire at this time last year, who is untradeable if it does not workout, and who has never in his career proven he can lead a team anywhere as the main man.

Outside of that, its a nifty idea.

 

[BuenoBeno]

It's is not so much that I want him gone, but I do not see him as the kind of player to rebuild around. 1st of all he is not exactly young and if we rebuild around someone I think it needs to be someone who can help lead us for many years to come. I also hate the fact that at times this season when we have been down in games he feels he has to take it upon himself to win the game for us- by not passing the ball and making stupid shots- and alot of times we end up getting farther behind this way.

 

[SLAB]

His best 'season' was some 10 or so games as a second fiddle to a pretty dominant Power Forward. Of course that season came a screeching halt with a cup of beer and a massive brawl.

I don't think Ron is the kind of guy you build around. I think teaming him with a Jermaine O'Neal. A Tim Duncan. An Amare Stoudamire. A Kevin Garnett, is the perfect situation for him.

With that said, there is no chance of us running into a player of that calibur in a decent enough amount of time to get his good years in with Ron's prime. Keep him. Try to trade him. And don't make plans of building around him. It's not going to be good enough for success...Especially in the freaking Western Conference.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't think Ron is the kind of guy you build around. I think teaming him with a Jermaine O'Neal. A Tim Duncan. An Amare Stoudamire. A Kevin Garnett, is the perfect situation for him.

How 'bout we ask the Pacers how that worked out...

 

[SLAB]

How 'bout we ask the Pacers how that worked out...

In the two full Artest/O'Neal seasons they were a good team.

48 wins and the second seed in the first, and 61 and the first the next.

If Ron doesn't go nutty, who knows what they do.

And it wasn't like I was suggesting making that tandem again. Just some names that I think he could excel with.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

In the two full Artest/O'Neal seasons they were a good team.

48 wins and the second seed in the first, and 61 and the first the next.

If Ron doesn't go nutty...

Bolded for emphasis.

 

[SLAB]

Bolded for emphasis.

Im 100% aware of that.

I was just saying for Ron to excel, he should be put in that type of situation.

A situation we wont be able to emulate in the next 4 years.

So my answer is a no.

We should not build around the guy.

 

[LPKingsFan]

First, Reggie, keep this **** up and you won't be around in four or five years.

Second, Ron is 29. Since when do you rebuild around a 29 year old? Not to mention one with a history of franchise-altering (not positive ones, either) decisions.

Dont get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Ron. But I'm realizing now I enjoy watching him more from a distance. I would have loved to see what a Miller/Webber/Artest/Mobley/Bibby team could have done. I would have loved to see what a Bonzi/Ron with a good defensive PG and big man squad could have done. Heck, I would have loved to see what Iverson/Ron could have done had the trade gone differently last year.

But I've seen what Artest/Martin etc is. And it's nothing special. Time to rebuild.

 

[bajaden]

I think we need to go the route that Portland has taken and build around youth. Ron doesn't fit into that catagory. I think its fine to have a few older complimentry players on a team, such as New Orlean's has with Peja and Bonzi. Once again Ron doesn't fit. He doesn't think of himself as a complimentry player. It would be nice if we could be as lucky as Portland and get the first pick in the draft. I'd even settle for the third.

 

[Kingzrool]

You are talking about rebuilding around an unstable person. That is..unwise to say the least.

You are also talking about rebuilding around an unstable person who has made it out of the first round of the playoffs exactly once in his career.

And you are talking about "rebuilding" around a 29 yr old, meaning your great rebuilding centerpiece might, might, be able to give you 4-5 years tops before he starts to slow. So you get short window, with a player that is a constant distraction and who was even threatening to retire at this time last year, who is untradeable if it does not workout, and who has never in his career proven he can lead a team anywhere as the main man.

Outside of that, its a nifty idea.

Yes, it is about time for my annual agreement with Brick.

I am a huge Ron supporter and I definitely want him around. But rebuild around him? Just no. The instability factor is just too much.

 

[kupman]

Is this poll for real?

My next poll:

Should Kenny Thomas be our starting PF next year?

or

Should we bring back Muss?

 

[PurpleHaze]

First, Reggie, keep this **** up and you won't be around in four or five years.

What's the **** part? What is it that Reggie has done that has caused such a hysterical panic attack? Giving this head coach "four or five years" to sort it all out would make it seem not exactly a debacle, fiasco, disaster - pick your favorite slam.

As I said previous, Theus never said once that he wants Artest back and he never said once that he wants him gone. What's the big deal? He continues to heap lavish praise on Kevin Martin at every opportunity and said he's going to make it right with #23. Everyone knows (except apparently a tiny few) that the Kings are in a rebuilding phase. Everyone knows Artest has one year left with the Kings if he's not traded or opts out. Everyone knows he's likely gone for sure after next season, maybe in the middle of next season or even traded to move up in the draft - who knows? Maybe the pace of rebuilding is not quite up to some fans expectations. It's painfully obvious with 44, 33, and now 38 wins in the last three seasons the glory days are in the distant past and a new phase to get back there has begun.

 

[Jechtsphere]

Build around a head case?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[fnordius]

Tell me why "absolutely not"? hes the best player on the team...

I'm sure that everyone who voted that way would give a different combination of factors, whether age, instability, team fit, or whatever. But one thing that's the clincher for me personally: when the Kings are being "Ron's Team," they tend to play a style of ball that I don't enjoy watching. They become, to a great degree, the antithesis of The Team. I find it as boring as watching Ewing's Knicks grind out a 58-55 win, but at least Ewing's Knicks were strong competitors. If I can think of things that sound like more pleasant entertainment than a Kings game, I go into suspended animation as a fan until management reverses course. Not fun for me, not good for the franchise.

That's absolutely decisive as far as I'm concerned, and I doubt whether there's anything Ron, or anyone else, can do to fix it, aside from his finding a different place to play.

 

[Entity]

I like the fact that we are sticking the FACT that nobody noway nohow can ever change. There is no such thing as a reformed drug or alcohol addict. No such thing as a person feeling one way about something and never feeling different. And no such thing as a man making some mistakes and not making any more.

I think it is simple minded of people to constantly think because someone did something 3 or 4 years ago he is automatically going to do it again. I used to be a womanizer from ages 16-22. Now I have been happily married for 6 years and have 4 kids. Now should I still be considered a womanizer having not been with another woman since I got married?

 

[VF21]

It's not about you, Entity. And calling people "simple minded" is unnecessary. You can agree to disagree with people but when you start down the road of name calling, etc. NOTHING good ever happens.

Ron Artest is going to be a divisive topic of discussion as long as he's here and probably long after he's gone. He still elicits strong polar emotions at PacersDigest, for example...

Each end of the spectrum has valid points, as do those who don't want to commit one way or the other. The question is still valid, even if you disagree with some of the answers.

 

[Sluggah]

remember when Ron first came here...and he brought it, defensively, every night. and would often shut stars down, and completely alter games? it was amazing and exciting to watch. where the hell did that guy go?

but even if that guy came back...I still wouldn't advocate rebuilding around him.

 

[6th]

I could care less what Ron has done in the past (particularly off the court). I care how he conducts himself in Sacramento.

I make no apologies for wanting Ron gone. I do not like his selfish play. I believe he hurts us more often than helps us. He may seem to help, but then he blows it because of his oversized ego. He has to be "the man." He will not pass out of a double or triple team late in a game. That tells me that he is a totally selfish player who wants the glory and limelight. I hate that.

I always have been, and always will be, a fan of the Sacramento Kings. I love watching TEAM play on the court. Ron Artest does not fit that scenario. So, I want him gone before he turns all the youngsters into "me only" players.

 

[LPKingsFan]

What's the **** part? What is it that Reggie has done that has caused such a hysterical panic attack? Giving this head coach "four or five years" to sort it all out would make it seem not exactly a debacle, fiasco, disaster - pick your favorite slam.

As I said previous, Theus never said once that he wants Artest back and he never said once that he wants him gone. What's the big deal? He continues to heap lavish praise on Kevin Martin at every opportunity and said he's going to make it right with #23. Everyone knows (except apparently a tiny few) that the Kings are in a rebuilding phase. Everyone knows Artest has one year left with the Kings if he's not traded or opts out. Everyone knows he's likely gone for sure after next season, maybe in the middle of next season or even traded to move up in the draft - who knows? Maybe the pace of rebuilding is not quite up to some fans expectations. It's painfully obvious with 44, 33, and now 38 wins in the last three seasons the glory days are in the distant past and a new phase to get back there has begun.

Everyone also knows its not a good idea to talk about your players like this in the media. He'll eventually lose their confidence, and once you lose your team in the NBA, you're as good as gone as a coach.

 

[Sac.1989]

I dont believe we should build the team around ron, ie extend him to a long contract. However that being said if we can really add a quality piece in the offseason this yr ie elton brand or okafor, then i think we will really see the true worth of ron. As it stands he has both helped and hindered our season however if were to become contendors which i do beleive we have the opportunity to with a quality addition at either PF or C that could change.

 

[jimbodan]

I'm a big Ron fan and even I think this would be a bad idea. Ron Artest is not the kind of player you want around for a rebuild. His intangibles that make him a great player and want to come out and win every single game are the same things that hurt him on a rebuilding team. There are times when he would have to accept and even embrace losing as well as give up minutes to lesser talents on the team if he were to play on a rebuilding team. I just don't think he would do very well under those circumstances.

 

[chelle]

100% without a doubt, absolutley NO.

 

[Sac.1989]

I agree with you both but i do believe we arent in a complete rebuilding mode, the pieces are there we just need a quality big man. I think if we were to get that piece and become playoff bound, ron artest would be a good player to have as opposed to not having.

 

[SacTownKid]

No way, for many reasons. The most important and obvious of which is timeframe. He has a different time frame with his need to win as does a rebuilding team.

 

[Heuge]

Tell me why "absolutely not"? hes the best player on the team, he brings more heart then any other player on the team. He causes the most mismatches which would be great in the playoffs.. what other kings player can you say that about..none.
yah he chucks up some ill advised shots sometimes.. so what so does everyone its just everyone notices it more because its INSANE ron artest
its funny because he still shot a good percentage on the year
45 % fg 37 % 3pt...
hes perfect beside martin because he can guard the best player which is a load off martin if its a SG and the important thing is Artest WANTS to guard the best player.
He's the leader right now whether you like it or not and he deserves that role on the team just because of his great play.


I just don't see why everyone wants him gone.. he is a GREAT player, a rare player, hes more stable then in the past, and most of all he wants to win in a kings uniform..

How many successful teams has Ron been a part of?

 

[Fresno King]

We may have to. It's apparant to me that no-one wants to trade for him or offer up a decent deal for him. That's why he's still here. Artest would have been gone at the deadline if GP had his way, IMHO.

Whether he's in Sac or not in 08-09, we're still a PF and PG away from getting back in the playoffs. This rebuilding process is going to take 2-3 more years.

 

[fnordius]

We may have to. It's apparant to me that no-one wants to trade for him or offer up a decent deal for him. That's why he's still here. Artest would have been gone at the deadline if GP had his way, IMHO.

Agreed on a couple of points, but have to pick at a third.

Artest doesn't have much trade value. I think it's a little speculative to assume that GP wanted to trade him even if he couldn't get much, but I'll agree with that too, despite the lack of strong evidence one way or the other. When (April 2, Q&A with Amick) Joe Maloof is saying stuff like,

I think that of course it’s going to be up to Ron whatever he wants to do this summer, whether he opts out or stays with us. But if he continues to play as terrific as he’s played this year, it’s all up to him. If he plays great this year and decides not to opt out and has another terrific year, then sure we’re going to look at signing him. Sure, absolutely.
It’s up to him, though, really. It’s up to him. The ball’s in his court. If he just continues to do what he’s doing now – all the guys like him in the locker room, he brings such an intensity to the game. It’s up to him.

...then I have to assume that GP, who has spoken of Artest in fairly ambivalent terms, is probably being pressured from both sides (Maloof, Theus) to consider signing him to an extension. Which brings me to my nitpicking.

Have to rebuild around him? His contract with us is done unless he accepts his option on next year, in which case it's done in a year. So maybe the franchise will have to pay him another $8M, but I don't see how they'd be forced to do anything more with him than that.