Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??

[Henkel]

I don't think he'll declare. What do you think about Russ Westbrook or Lawson?

I think Westbrook is horribly overrated. Right now he just doesn't handle the ball well enough to play the pg position. Although he has elite athleticism and has made some highlight finishes at the basket he really doesn't finish all that well. Seems to be easily bothered by contact and misses far to many layups in traffic. He's a streaky shooter at this point but he has really nice form and i think that area of his game will come around. He's a elite on the ball defender who is really at his best cutting to the basket and playing in the open court. He is a tweener in my eyes, and there is certainly a role for guys like him, look at Lindsey Hunter, but you don't use high picks on them.

Lawson has grown on me to some extent. The more i see him the more i believe he can run a team. I don't think he has the range on his jump shot or the size to be a great scorer but his speed, handles, and vision are gonna allow him to get inside and do some damage. My biggest problem with Lawson is his defense. On top of lacking size and strength he is just not a good defender. He gets some steals due to his quickness but gets beat off the dripple way to easily even on the college level. He has impressed me with his ability to run a team over the last couple of months but because of his deficiencies I doubt he amounts to anything more then a average starting pg.

Also... Harden should declare. Arizona State isn't gonna get much better and he has a very developed game already. Theres just not much for him to gain by returning for another year. I really like Harden, he reminds me of Brandon Roy in many ways, maybe not a pure pg but a guy who can have the ball in his hands a lot and still manages to make those around him better. Would probably need to be paired with another ball handler but is a guy who could run a team in the half court.

 

[BMiller52]

I think Westbrook is horribly overrated. Right now he just doesn't handle the ball well enough to play the pg position. Although he has elite athleticism and has made some highlight finishes at the basket he really doesn't finish all that well. Seems to be easily bothered by contact and misses far to many layups in traffic. He's a streaky shooter at this point but he has really nice form and i think that area of his game will come around. He's a elite on the ball defender who is really at his best cutting to the basket and playing in the open court. He is a tweener in my eyes, and there is certainly a role for guys like him, look at Lindsey Hunter, but you don't use high picks on them.

Lawson has grown on me to some extent. The more i see him the more i believe he can run a team. I don't think he has the range on his jump shot or the size to be a great scorer but his speed, handles, and vision are gonna allow him to get inside and do some damage. My biggest problem with Lawson is his defense. On top of lacking size and strength he is just not a good defender. He gets some steals due to his quickness but gets beat off the dripple way to easily even on the college level. He has impressed me with his ability to run a team over the last couple of months but because of his deficiencies I doubt he amounts to anything more then a average starting pg.

Also... Harden should declare. Arizona State isn't gonna get much better and he has a very developed game already. Theres just not much for him to gain by returning for another year. I really like Harden, he reminds me of Brandon Roy in many ways, maybe not a pure pg but a guy who can have the ball in his hands a lot and still manages to make those around him better. Would probably need to be paired with another ball handler but is a guy who could run a team in the half court.

See I disagree about Westbrook. I know he's not a great ball handler but he is a good passer first of all. Like you said he's streaky but nice form and he has a ton of athleticism. You compared him to Hunter but he is bigger and way more athletic than Lindsay, also a better passer. I think he has potential to be a really good PG but I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Sounds like you agree with my TJ Ford comparison with Collison?

I haven't watched enough of Harden to really comment on his game. This draft is really deep though and he might not even be a top 20 guy even if he has the talent(he does, but still). Guys like Collison and Lawson are going to be probably fringe lotto picks because they have played at big, good, college teams. You have the athletic freaks who are going to be PFs or Cs like McGee and DeAndre Jordan and they are going top 20. Mayo and Beasley and Rose are top 5 picks because they're really good and really hyped. Griffin reminds people of Carlos Boozer and Anthony Randolph reminds people of Bosh so those guys will get picked on potential. Love and Augustin are top 10 because they have been the best players on 2 of the best teams and really without them their teams aren't nearly as good. So I dunno if he'll declare, it looks like a lot of really good prospects will declare but I'm guessing a few will be scared off because of the depth of the draft this year.

 

[Henkel]

See I disagree about Westbrook. I know he's not a great ball handler but he is a good passer first of all. Like you said he's streaky but nice form and he has a ton of athleticism. You compared him to Hunter but he is bigger and way more athletic than Lindsay, also a better passer. I think he has potential to be a really good PG but I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Sounds like you agree with my TJ Ford comparison with Collison?

I haven't watched enough of Harden to really comment on his game. This draft is really deep though and he might not even be a top 20 guy even if he has the talent(he does, but still). Guys like Collison and Lawson are going to be probably fringe lotto picks because they have played at big, good, college teams. You have the athletic freaks who are going to be PFs or Cs like McGee and DeAndre Jordan and they are going top 20. Mayo and Beasley and Rose are top 5 picks because they're really good and really hyped. Griffin reminds people of Carlos Boozer and Anthony Randolph reminds people of Bosh so those guys will get picked on potential. Love and Augustin are top 10 because they have been the best players on 2 of the best teams and really without them their teams aren't nearly as good. So I dunno if he'll declare, it looks like a lot of really good prospects will declare but I'm guessing a few will be scared off because of the depth of the draft this year.

Lindsey Hunter wasn't as explosive as Westbrook but he was a good athlete and like Westbrook he was very strong which allowed him to be a great one on one defender. Westbrook might be an inch bigger then Hunter but its negligible. Westbrook is a good passer and you can really see that in the open court. The problem is can he create offensive for you in the half court? He doesn't have the ball handling ability to break down the defense and create shots for his teammates right now. At the end of the shot clock Darren Collison has the ball in his hands for a reason.Westbrook just isn't capable of creating against a established defense.

Defensively and athletically its a pretty good comparison. As for offensively i think its a bit off. Collison has never showed the ability to run a offense like Ford did at the same age. Ford average like 8apg over his college career. Ford was a better passer and more aggressive then Collison. Part of this is could be UCLA slow it down or dump it into love offense, but Collison can seem passive at times and often settle for outside shot rather then penetrating the ball.

I would be suprised if Harden wasn't a top 20 pick after the type of season he had as a freshman. As for the state of the draft i think you are overselling it. Blake Griffin resembles boozer in body type and thats where that comparison ends. Jordan hasn't proven anything, everyone knew he was a good athlete an he has showed it. Randolf hasn't reminded too many people of Bosh otherwise he would a top 5 prospect with the lack of big men in this draft. Theres also no surefire star in the group. Beasley is gonna be good but he is a tweener. Rose, Mayo, Bayless and Gordon are all on the small side to play sg and all have questionable pg skills. Some of these guys are gonna develop into great player but unlike last year there isn't a super star sitting at the top of this draft. Honestly after those 5 and Lopez this draft really drops off in my opinion.

 

[BMiller52]

Lindsey Hunter wasn't as explosive as Westbrook but he was a good athlete and like Westbrook he was very strong which allowed him to be a great one on one defender. Westbrook might be an inch bigger then Hunter but its negligible. Westbrook is a good passer and you can really see that in the open court. The problem is can he create offensive for you in the half court? He doesn't have the ball handling ability to break down the defense and create shots for his teammates right now. At the end of the shot clock Darren Collison has the ball in his hands for a reason.Westbrook just isn't capable of creating against a established defense.

Defensively and athletically its a pretty good comparison. As for offensively i think its a bit off. Collison has never showed the ability to or castrate a offense like Ford did at the same age. Ford average like 8apg over his college career. Ford is was better passer and more aggressive then Collison. Part of this is could be UCLA slow it down or dump it into love offense, but Collison can seem passive at times and often settle for outside shot rather then penetrating the ball.

I would be suprised if Harden wasn't a top 20 pick after the type of season he had as a freshman. As for the state of the draft i think you are overselling it. Blake Griffin resembles boozer in body type and thats where that comparison ends. Jordan hasn't proven anything, everyone knew he was a good athlete an he has showed it. Randolf hasn't reminded too many people of Bosh otherwise he would a top 5 prospect with the lack of big men in this draft. Theres also no surefire star in the group. Beasley is gonna be good but he is a tweener. Rose, Mayo, Bayless and Gordon are all on the small side to play sg and all have questionable pg skills. Some of these guys are gonna develop into great player but unlike last year there isn't a super star sitting at the top of this draft. Honestly after those 5 and Lopez this draft really drops off in my opinion.

I dunno I think you have to give Westbrook some time to become a better ball handler but I guess I see where you're coming from. I'm still pretty high on his potential though.

What you said on Collison is pretty accurate, I typed the wrong guy though in the post you quoted. I meant to say the Ford/Lawson comparison. My bad bro.

I know it drops off and a lot of the picks after those 5(Beasley/Rose/Mayo/Lopez/Bayless) a lot of it is potential guys but I still think it's pretty deep. I kinda agree with you about Griffin though, people see his athleticism and his height and they compare him to Boozer but I'm not sure he is going to be a great player, still think he'll be good though. Jordan is all potential like you said but it is a lot of untapped potential and Tx A&M can't develop big men well, atleast their new coaching staff can't. Randolph is all potential also too, he atleast has some ball handling skills and shotblocking and stuff like that he has proven he can do. Harden might declare though, hey if he does great for us. The more good players in the draft=better for us because he either plays for us or pushes a better player to us.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Rose vs Augustin, here we go...

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Are you guys watching how much smaller Augustin looks when standing next to Rose? He barely comes up to Rose's shoulder...

 

[nbrans]

Are you guys watching how much smaller Augustin looks when standing next to Rose? He barely comes up to Rose's shoulder...

Rose TOWERS over Augustin. Wow. I'm starting to have doubts about Augustin -- he may be shorter than I thought.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Rose looks terrific out there. How great would it be for this franchise to be able to get him...

 

[nbrans]

Rose is just dominating Augustin.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Augustin is having trouble with all of the length of Memphis

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

This one's over. Look forward to Westbrook vs Rose in the next round

 

[BritishColumbia]

That is a good moment for us to re-evaluate players ... It seems like Augustin is no longer a fan favorite in here ... yes, it was only one game but I am disappointed anyway .. at least a little bit.

 

[living legend]

It was obvious against a lengthy Memphis team that Augustin is going to struggle in the next level because of his size. He looks more and more like a quicker Jameer Nelson than anything else.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

That is a good moment for us to re-evaluate players ... It seems like Augustin is no longer a fan favorite in here ... yes, it was only one game but I am disappointed anyway .. at least a little bit.

Well, next Saturday we get to see how Darren Collison looks against Memphis after Augustin's poor performance today. Tournament performance goes a long way towards draft position, and if Collison gets UCLA past Memphis with respectable numbers, he'll probably jump ahead of Augustin.

D.J. was just outmatched and undersized against Rose and looked frazzled and bothered the whole game. With Augustin's lack of size, he's going to have to be ultra-composed to make it big in the NBA, and we didn't see that today.

 

[nbrans]

I think today's performance by Augustin really was eye-opening. He's going to be going against bigger PGs like Rose in the NBA, and he had a whole lot of difficulty playing his game at all.

And yeah, Collison/Rose is going to be a fascinating matchup. We'll see how he fares.

 

[BMiller52]

Eh he's still a way better passer than Jameer Nelson. He kinda reminds me of Damon Stoudamire before he got injured. I would still take him though.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Kansas guards are really sucking right now. Kaun's hustle keeping them in the game. Arthur hasn't touched the ball since the first half.

Arthur finally gets it in the post, and scores.

 

[bajaden]

Well, the Rose, Augustin match-up was one that I was looking forward to. I was curious how Augustin would do when he came up against someone taller and just as quick, if not quicker than he was. It was only one game, but Rose really exposed him. Its a situtation he will be facing almost every game in the NBA.

Now I look forward to the Rose, Collison match-up.

 

[bajaden]

I dunno I think you have to give Westbrook some time to become a better ball handler but I guess I see where you're coming from. I'm still pretty high on his potential though.

What you said on Collison is pretty accurate, I typed the wrong guy though in the post you quoted. I meant to say the Ford/Lawson comparison. My bad bro.

I know it drops off and a lot of the picks after those 5(Beasley/Rose/Mayo/Lopez/Bayless) a lot of it is potential guys but I still think it's pretty deep. I kinda agree with you about Griffin though, people see his athleticism and his height and they compare him to Boozer but I'm not sure he is going to be a great player, still think he'll be good though. Jordan is all potential like you said but it is a lot of untapped potential and Tx A&M can't develop big men well, atleast their new coaching staff can't. Randolph is all potential also too, he atleast has some ball handling skills and shotblocking and stuff like that he has proven he can do. Harden might declare though, hey if he does great for us. The more good players in the draft=better for us because he either plays for us or pushes a better player to us.

Westbrook is an incredible athelete. I just have a problem converting a 2 into a 1. It has seldom worked in the NBA. Douby being the latest example. I don't mean to single him out, but he's someone everyone is familiar with. I do think that Westbrook has more skills of that nature, and maybe he could eventually become a combo guard. Once again, were dealing with someone thats a little small for the 2 and not quite a 1. I just don't know if I would gamble a first round pick on him.

 

[Gary]

Darrell Arthur:
Saw Arthur again today. Started off well until he got into foul trouble. Had a good game going midway through the first with 5pts 5rbds, then got into foul trouble. Didn't really shake it off and disappeared for the rest of the first half and all of the second half. He did have that sweet up and under move after getting the offensive board in the first half though. Just wish he would play like that for 40 minutes. Defensively he played well in the second half, but defense alone isn't good enough.

DJ Augustin:
Also was able to catch the other prospects in the first game. Augustin, and Abrams were exposed, Neither one could get off a consistent shot. Both being about 5'11 it might be a hint at what's to come in the NBA. Augustin did show the ability to drive like he does so well, but his shot was WAY off, and Rose pretty much shut him down. Augustin/Abrams combo didn't have an answer for Rose. It also seemed that Memphis's height advantage played havoc on Augustin creating offense for other teammates. Wherever he passed it seemed he was trying to get around the taller Memphis players.

Derrick Rose:
Derrick Rose was amazing. My favorite move of the game was the double pump dunk. Crazy play. I would recommend catching the highlights if you haven't watched the game. Rose has crazy athletic ability. Rose seemed to show his ability against the small back court duo of Abrams, and Augustin like they weren't even there. Certainly Rose will be the second pick in the draft even if Memphis gets the #2, because you do not pass on a guy like Rose.

Chris Douglas-Roberts:
Think Brandon Roy. All year watching Douglas-Roberts I tried to pin a player name on him who he reminded me of. After watching today I have decided... Brandon Roy. Douglas-Roberts has the tools to make it in the NBA as a SG. Height, size, plays D, decent shooter, and a good passer. Not sure why draft sites have him in the second round, because he is a good player playing for a good team... Possibly the top tweener in the draft.

Joey Dorsey:
Played a hell of a defensive game. Was a major part in stopping all the inside play, and drives attempted by Texas... Grabbed 12 boards, but more importantly played excellent defense.

Brandon Rush:
Rush had an off night shooting the ball, but played some monster D down the stretch to come back from something like 5 or 7 down in the 4th. guarded Curry, and Barr REAL well.

 

[Gary]

First time the final four is all 1 seeds!

UCLA vs. Memphis
Excellent game.... It has to be! You have Rose going up against Collison, and Westbrook rather than two 5'11 guards. Plus UCLA can play some D! Not sure who wins this game. If I had to analyze it I would have to say UCLA because of their guard play. Rose is a decent defender, but UCLA comes at you with a two guard combo that can shoot the lights out then run back and defend. Shipp is a good defender and might give Douglas-Roberts problems. Love should have issues with the defense Memphis plays. I wouldn't be surprised if Love has a 10pts 8rbd game against them while getting his shot blocked about 5-7 times. Memphis is an extremely long and athletic team and might use that as their advantage, and try to run on UCLA. UCLA should try to slow it down and play a half court game. I think the game is going to be decided by the guard play, and UCLA has a slight edge.
UCLA 63 - Memphis 61


North Carolina vs. Kansas
The key to Kansas winning is stopping Hansbrough. Is Kansas up to it? Can they do it? Yes..... Kansas has 5-6 guys that can go for 20 on any given night, but for the most part in the tournament they have not had one consistent go to guy. This is going to be their demise. North Carolina is no slouch on the defensive end, and Hansbrough has yet to be stopped. Even if Kansas were to stop Hansbrough they would have to worry about their own offensive consistency along with stopping the guard play of North Carolina. I have a feeling this game isn't going to be as close as it should be being a 1 vs. a 1 seed.
North Carolina 67 - Kansas 55

 

[BMiller52]

I know some of you guys are down on DJ and I didn't watch most of the game(...I woke up at 12:30 so yeah) but I'm not down on him. Everyone has a bad game and he was going up against a really good player in Rose. To be fair to Augustin his team in general was smaller than Memphis. Also from what I heard it was mainly his J that was off. But his teammates didn't make it any easier on him from what I heard.


Kansas should've lost to Davidson and they really came close to choking that game away. They need to get the ball into their big guys like Arthur and Jackson. I know Rush and Chalmers are good guards but this has been their achilles heel all year IMO, that they have no #1 guy like Gary said. Arthur is skilled enough and for a while it seemed Jackson played that type of role but they are getting good post position and a lot of times they don't tiuch the ball at al while Chalmers/Collins/Robinson/Rush take turns playing catch around the perimeter. That needs to be stopped IMO. When they were throwing the ball into the post consistently earlier in the year it worked really well. Playing like that vs UNC will get you beat. I do feel like Jackson and Arthur match up with Hansbrough better than a lot of guys, better than a guy like Earl Clark or Dave Padgett does anyway. Padgett is too slow and Clark wasn't really strong enough to guard him(to be fair when he did a good job of guarding Hansbrough in the post Hansbrough just went out and took a mid range J). Jackson and Arthur are both similar height as Hansbrough, Arthur is a little bigger. They're also athletic like he is and both are strong guys.

 

[SacKings7]

I still like Augustin after today's game, in spite of his size, but I would probably pick Collison over him if both were available.

On another note, Davidson came really close to beating Kansas. I thought Curry forced a few too many shots in the last few minutes, and I dunno what that last play was supposed to look like, but that was just awful.

Also, I think Memphis beats UCLA 65-59, and North Carolina beats Kansas 61-47

 

[Gary]

I still like Augustin after today's game, in spite of his size, but I would probably pick Collison over him if both were available.

It does worry me about Augustin's size but he was still able to get to the rim. His shot just wasn't falling. He also had problems passing the ball around the trees Memphis threw at him. Abrams is someone to worry about if he came out because he was getting his shot altered every shot it seemed against a 6'6 defender. It was crazy how many airballs he threw up.

 

[BMiller52]

It does worry me about Augustin's size but he was still able to get to the rim. His shot just wasn't falling. He also had problems passing the ball around the trees Memphis threw at him. Abrams is someone to worry about if he came out because he was getting his shot altered every shot it seemed against a 6'6 defender. It was crazy how many airballs he threw up.

Yeah that's kinda why I still like Augustin. He was still getting to the rim he was just missing shots. And Rose IS a big PG, DJ has played against PGs who were bigger than him and done fine. He just had trouble with Rose who is like 6'4''. But when he goes up against guys who are like 6'2'' he hasn't really had any trouble with them. There are a lot of smaller PGs he won't have trouble like that with(being defended by):

Paul
Parker
Ford
Calderon
Bibby
AI
Ellis(guess he's not a PG but if we were playing GSW that's who I'd put him on, I guess GSW might switch Davis back on him though on D)
Nash
Felton
Rondo
Alston

that's just off the top of my head. And some of the bigger PGs like Kidd and Billups are getting older. I don't think they're quick enough to stop him.

 

[Venom]

Defensively and athletically its a pretty good comparison. As for offensively i think its a bit off. Collison has never showed the ability to run a offense like Ford did at the same age. Ford average like 8apg over his college career. Ford was a better passer and more aggressive then Collison. Part of this is could be UCLA slow it down or dump it into love offense, but Collison can seem passive at times and often settle for outside shot rather then penetrating the ball.

Wrong. Collison is an old-school PG who lets the game come to him. He is content to let the big men and/or the offensive system get established until his scoring punch is needed. He turns it on at the end of games or when the bigs and swings are struggling. He is like John Stockton in this regard.

If you have creative big men, and we figure to considering the Petrie system and Hawes already on board, then Collison is the perfect PG for you. Collison on Portland would be scary. Definitely not the place I want to see him go.

Also, bear in mind that whatever PG we draft will have to contend with, and beat in the playoffs, Deron Williams and Chris Paul for his entire career. That puts defense at a premium, which means that Augustin is not a viable option.

 

[SacKings7]

Wrong. Collison is an old-school PG who lets the game come to him. He is content to let the big men and/or the offensive system get established until his scoring punch is needed. He turns it on at the end of games or when the bigs and swings are struggling. He is like John Stockton in this regard.

If you have creative big men, and we figure to considering the Petrie system and Hawes already on board, then Collison is the perfect PG for you. Collison on Portland would be scary. Definitely not the place I want to see him go.

Also, bear in mind that whatever PG we draft will have to contend with, and beat in the playoffs, Deron Williams and Chris Paul for his entire career. That puts defense at a premium, which means that Augustin is not a viable option.

Good point there at the end, but who said we were drafting a PG?? As much as I'd like to see Augustin or Collison taken by us, I wouldn't be surprised if Petrie DIDN'T draft a PG.

 

[Gary]

I am thinking the same thing... that's why I had posted in the other thread that we might try to go for Sean Singletary in the 2nd round. If we sign Beno, we can use a 2nd on a project PG.

I have a feeling Petrie is going to try as hard as he can to get his hands on Love.. Not literally, and not the feeling

 

[Henkel]

Wrong. Collison is an old-school PG who lets the game come to him. He is content to let the big men and/or the offensive system get established until his scoring punch is needed. He turns it on at the end of games or when the bigs and swings are struggling. He is like John Stockton in this regard.

If you have creative big men, and we figure to considering the Petrie system and Hawes already on board, then Collison is the perfect PG for you. Collison on Portland would be scary. Definitely not the place I want to see him go.

Also, bear in mind that whatever PG we draft will have to contend with, and beat in the playoffs, Deron Williams and Chris Paul for his entire career. That puts defense at a premium, which means that Augustin is not a viable option.

I agree that Collison has done a good job running the show for UCLA. To say he is going to be a great playmaker, like John Stockton, because he runs a offense that is built around a post presence or last years offense of finding shooters coming off screens doesn't make sense to me. A offensive system can hinder a player but it can also mask weaknesses. He has yet to show me that he can break down a defense and create at a high level. He does a decent job of creating for his teammates but his own offensive game has some glaring flaws that could effect him on the next level. When he breaks down a defense he has a hard time finishing at the basket because of his size, he doesn't really have a mid range game because of his slow release. He is a great set shooter but i think he is gonna have a hard time scoring in the NBA. I don't know if you were just comparing his mentality to John Stockton but as far as skills go he simple hasn't show me that he has the offensive tools to have a good mid range game or be the play maker that Stockton was. I also don't think he is going to be the same level of defender against bigger more athletically gifted players due to his size. We will see how he handles a big and athletically gifted player in Rose next Saturday.

 

[Smills91]

It does worry me about Augustin's size but he was still able to get to the rim. His shot just wasn't falling. He also had problems passing the ball around the trees Memphis threw at him. Abrams is someone to worry about if he came out because he was getting his shot altered every shot it seemed against a 6'6 defender. It was crazy how many airballs he threw up.

Because he was getting STUFFED...he looked AWFUL out there. Memphis has a couple three potential NBA players. These are the guys he will be going against night in and night out. Even if his shot was falling, I think he's at best an average PG in the NBA. Give me DC any day over Augustin.