Kings Select in the 2008 NBA DRAFT??

Look, I know your passionate about Arthur, and by the way, he did have a pretty good game today. But lets not get into name calling. Lets keep it a disscussion. If you go back and read what I wrote carefully, when I used the word struggle, I was speaking in general and not about any one particular player, and certainly not Arthur.
If I were to use the word struggle on a player, it would probably be Thabeet, because he does struggle. Arthur plays the way his team wants him to play, and I don't have a problem with that. I do have some concerns over his size. But I have also stated that if you can play the game, you can play the game.

I would agree that Arthur has more upside than Love, who by the way is not my choice for the Kings, but could live with, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that what you see in Love is what you get with no upside. He is after all a freshman and certainly has room to improve his game.

Some of these players may not even declare and it becomes a lot of wasted disscussion. Augustin is a lot of fun to watch though, isn't he?
I wasn't calling you ignorant, or I didn't mean to anyway. I was saying the statement Arthur struggles was ignorant. But you turned out to be not saying that so I guess it's just a misunderstanding. I apologize.

The thing with Love is I don't see where he can improve much.

I agree with Augustin though. He's probably my favorite PG in college, I just don't know if he'll fall to us:(.
 
See.. You are being ignorant now.. To say Love has almost no chance to improve is ignorant. How do you know? In the NBA he is going to have 24/7 access to a nutritionist, workout room, trainer, and many other things he does not have in college. He will only have to worry about basketball instead of all the other things that come with college.

Bottom line and you wont change my mind is I would pick the guy who I know has the skillsets I am looking for than the guy who might give me those things, and might not. But again, we have no idea and can only base our assumptions off college stats. Arthur averages approx 1 rebound every 4 minutes, and has so since he came into the NCAA. His scoring has to be done inside 15ft. He has not shown the ability to boxout as of yet consistently at the college level.. Too many question marks around Arthur still..

But all that said he played a nice game today. If he was AVERAGING 16/9, and played this way every game than things might be different. But he's like that guy on the Kings who will give you 15/10 one night, and the next night give you 5/3.. a.k.a. Mikki Moore. Although if you put Arthur in Moore's spot next year I believe Arthur would do better. Just trying to point out inconsistent play..

I think Arthur needs one more year in college where he is "the man" on KU.

Now see the thing with Love is I don't see areas on his game where he can actually get better. You said you're looking for a guy with the right skillset that fits what you want. But lets face it, neither will probably be franchise guys. So which skillset does Love give you-post scoring, passing, rebounding, shooting. Which skillset does Arthur give you? He gives you good post D, shotblocking, athleticism(which may as well be a skillset IMO considering how much it matters for a PF), post scoring, shooting. I think you're looking for the wrong skillset personally.

I don't see what Love is going to improve on as far as his skills go. The way he plays in the low post it's questionable if his game will translate IMO considering his weight helps him a lot vs smaller college guys, but it won't be anything special vs NBA players. His shooting is already pretty good. His passing is already good. He's a decent ball handler for a PF. His rebounding might not translate to the NBA because he won't have the size/height advantage he does in college. His defense isn't good. His shotblocking isn't good. That stuff probably won't improve too much. He was dominated by Lopez twins(yeah I know he had back spasms), and to me it seemed like he had problems with their height/length(which were significantly better than his and he doesn't have the athleticism to make up for it). Athleticism is something he may be able to improve by losing the weight, but then that could hurt his post game. I think he'll be a pretty good offensive player but I don't see him being a good or even decent defender.

You're not going to be able to put him together with a guy like Spencer Hawes, who doesn't make up for Love's lack of agility or athleticism, and Spencer himself would benefit by having a quicker/athletic guy next to him or even another guy who is 6'10''-7'0''. I've seen the argument that we don't know if Spencer is going to be any good anyway. Well we drafted him and the only way to find out is if we put him into a position for success and get players next to him that will compliment him. If you draft Love and commit to him as your PF, you might as well dump Spencer. That just sets us back and wastes our pick from last year. Even if they're both good offensively, that's not a frontcourt you'll ever win anything with defensively so eventually 1 or the other has to go. It's not a good frontcourt longterm. THAT'S why I'm against Love, and will continue to be for the forseeable future up until draft time.
 
Yah, Neither will be franchise players.. I think there are MAYBE 4 players in this draft with that potential.. Mayo, Beasley, Rose, and maybe Lopez.

I was weary of slow white guys for the longest time. Until I really got into the game, and watched it religiously. For every Steve Nash there will be 20 Steve Blakes. The thing that impressed me about Love is his age, and what he can do being so young. He makes up for being unathletic and then some. If Love was a senior, and had averaged what he has this year and less the prev three years I would question picking him. Believe me.. I also question putting him next to Hawes. I wonder if two unathletic white guys can play defense. Both Love, and Hawes are intelligent, and I am sure that will help with the "team defense" part of it. I have a co-worker who I work VERY well with. It's like I know what he is going to do before he does it and likewise. We get a ton of stuff done because as a team we work very well together. Separate we are just normal everyday workers. I think they would be fine. They are smart kids.
 
Augustin should be 3rd if you count Rose, and Bayless. There is a possibility that Collison will be picked before Augustin as well, but my mock draft right now has him 3rd PG drafted going to Chicago (based on team needs).. I was reading other draft sites, and saw Augustin going anywhere between 10 and 20. I am thinking as of now he will be top 10... If we resign Beno then we draft love, if not then we draft Augustin (if available)

My mock has the top ten as;
1. Beasley to Miami
2. Rose to Minnesota
3. Lopez to Memphis
4. Mayo to Seattle
5. Bayless to NYK
6. Gordon to LAC
7. Batum to Milwaukee
8. Jordan to Charlotte
9. Hibbert to Pacers
10. Augustin to Bulls
ok, I was thinking that you meant Augustin wasn't good enough for our pick so we should go out and get another pick lower than our own.
 
Yah, Neither will be franchise players.. I think there are MAYBE 4 players in this draft with that potential.. Mayo, Beasley, Rose, and maybe Lopez.

I was weary of slow white guys for the longest time. Until I really got into the game, and watched it religiously. For every Steve Nash there will be 20 Steve Blakes. The thing that impressed me about Love is his age, and what he can do being so young. He makes up for being unathletic and then some. If Love was a senior, and had averaged what he has this year and less the prev three years I would question picking him. Believe me.. I also question putting him next to Hawes. I wonder if two unathletic white guys can play defense. Both Love, and Hawes are intelligent, and I am sure that will help with the "team defense" part of it. I have a co-worker who I work VERY well with. It's like I know what he is going to do before he does it and likewise. We get a ton of stuff done because as a team we work very well together. Separate we are just normal everyday workers. I think they would be fine. They are smart kids.

Yeah but it's different on the court. I know they can do it mentally, question is can they do it physically? If it was David Lee then maybe, but I don't think Love can.
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
batum could be good... if we didnt have artest and salmons or have to worry about our pg and pf problems... he'd be a cool pick...
 
Yeah, if Augustin or Collison are available, you draft the PG, no doubt about it. Even if you do resign Beno, it'd doubtful either would be ready right away anyway, so Beno is the holdover until the young stud is ready. Then you have a problem of two good point guards, which is a problem that we've handled quite well in the past.
Agreed. Just because we plan to re-sign Beno doesn't mean we can't draft a PG for the future. Sign Beno for 2-3 years, and see how it turns out. If he lives up to expectations, try to re-sign him again. If not, Augustin or Collison should be ready to play heavy minutes by then anyway. I like Augustin a lot more than Collison. But of course, this is only my opinion if Randolph is off the board
 
Ibaka is not coming out unless he's promised first round. Who knows maybe his ambitions extend to lottery. It's not like he's 22. Anyway I don't see him dropping out of first round especially right now that people don't really know what will be his weaknesses in 3-4 years, so based on talent he's lottery bound.
 
I have Ibaka as the 3rd INTL player, and #9 PF in the draft.. That = about 24-30 in the 1st round, not lottery. Not enough is known about this kid.
 
His physical tools are exceptional, he's skill level is pretty high for 18 year old PF, he's not playing that much so basically all the information about him will be drawn from workouts where he has high chances to stand out. I think that will be mid-teens easily.
 
i have to admit its tempting for me, a lineup of...

Udrih
Martin
Artest
Brand
Miller

then cisco,salmons,hawes,williams off the bench..

Brand might not even be the same guy he was before though. An achilles is even worse than an ACL. Actually it's a lot worse IMO, considering most guys make a full recovery from a torn ACL. It's 1 of the 2 worst injuries an NBA player can have IMO-microfracture(because there's no cartilege left in the knee) and the achilles. I can't even think of a player who tore their achilles that made a full recovery. Add that to the fact Brand probably doesn't put us over the top and I don't really like it.
 
i have to admit its tempting for me, a lineup of...

Udrih
Martin
Artest
Brand
Miller

then cisco,salmons,hawes,williams off the bench..
won't get it done man.. think of the teams that are out there... portland is up & coming. lakers got immensely better with the emergence of bynum and addition of pau. they also have the a top 5 player in the league also. rockets are a much improved team w/ adelman leading them.

that team won't contend for a long time. brand might not be the same player he once was also. hes a bit undersized at the position and his age is catching up to him.
 
UPDATE

For those of you paying attention to the mock draft boards, NBADraft.net now has us picking Augustin, and DraftExpress has us picking Randolph. They both happen to be my top 2 players I want to see on the Kings. Hope one of them is right!
 
UPDATE

For those of you paying attention to the mock draft boards, NBADraft.net now has us picking Augustin, and DraftExpress has us picking Randolph. They both happen to be my top 2 players I want to see on the Kings. Hope one of them is right!
They're not mock drafts, they're just rankings. They don't take team needs into account until after the draft lottery.
 
UPDATE

For those of you paying attention to the mock draft boards, NBADraft.net now has us picking Augustin, and DraftExpress has us picking Randolph. They both happen to be my top 2 players I want to see on the Kings. Hope one of them is right!
nbamock has us picking Love. :D ;)

This site takes into account team needs (they have a team needs link), but until the order is set we wont truly know..
 
Damn, seeing this game tonight just kinda convinced me more that Beno isn't the great PG we need. I am really hoping for Augustin(or Lawson or Collison) but we need a PG too. Damn.
 
nbamock has us picking Love. :D ;)

This site takes into account team needs (they have a team needs link), but until the order is set we wont truly know..
If they take into account needs and still have us taking Love then they're not very good at recognising needs. He's not what we need.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Not to mention nobody has played a game in the tournament yet or worked out for anyone. Mock drafts are good for giving you scouting reports on players but you can ignore the rankings right now. They're not even close to accurate until a week before the actual draft.
 
If they take into account needs and still have us taking Love then they're not very good at recognising needs. He's not what we need.
Has to do with us needing a PF more than a PG at the moment, and Love being supposedly the highest ranked one available. That's all. Makes perfect sense to me and a lot of other people.. Nobody will ever get 100% approval on anything.

Mcghee isn't coming out his year (if I had to bet on it). Not that I would want him anyway.. He's got no offensive game, and his D isn't even close to being polished.

Thompson (another guy you mentioned) I have NO problem with taking over Love. Either/or for me. I like them both.
 
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Has to do with us needing a PF more than a PG at the moment, and Love being supposedly the highest ranked one available. That's all. Makes perfect sense to me and a lot of other people.. Nobody will ever get 100% approval on anything.

Mcghee isn't coming out his year (if I had to bet on it). Not that I would want him anyway.. He's got no offensive game, and his D isn't even close to being polished.

Thompson (another guy you mentioned) I have NO problem with taking over Love. Either/or for me. I like them both.
At the point where we're picking, highest ranked means pretty much squat, since it's all "in the eye of the beholder" at that point.
 
Has to do with us needing a PF more than a PG at the moment, and Love being supposedly the highest ranked one available. That's all. Makes perfect sense to me and a lot of other people.. Nobody will ever get 100% approval on anything.

Mcghee isn't coming out his year (if I had to bet on it). Not that I would want him anyway.. He's got no offensive game, and his D isn't even close to being polished.

Thompson (another guy you mentioned) I have NO problem with taking over Love. Either/or for me. I like them both.

Why are you so obsessed with players who are completely polished dude. IMO that kind of limits their potential.
 
At the point where we're picking, highest ranked means pretty much squat, since it's all "in the eye of the beholder" at that point.

Well At our spot (if we stay 13th) We will probably have to pick between Love, Collison, Arthur, Thabeet, Westbrook, Hansbrough, Thompson, Randolph, and Lawson. Not the pick of the litter, but we have enough of a player pool to take on need. There aren't any real standouts in that group based on either pure skill or pure potential.

Love is "too slow" and at 6'8.75-6'9 w/o shoes some say his lack of athleticism will hinder him.

Collison is quick, but not horribly athletic. Great shooter, but hasn't shown he can run the point full time.

Thabeet isn't at a position we need at the moment with Miller, and Hawes, and has dissappeared virtually every big game.

Westbrook is a small SG, but has some "combo guard" capabilities.

Hansbrough is only this year showing he can rebound. Not particularly strong rebounding, and shooter outside of 15ft.

Thompson plays for a smaller school, but has shown he can play when it counts against big teams, but he is Rider's only option so are his stats a bit inflated?

Randolph is a case of best player on a bad team. He has potential, but has not shown much else.

Arthur is a bit small for PF, and lacks SF abilities. Can't shoot outside 12-15ft, and grabs on average 1 rebound every 4 minutes which he has not improved on in his sophomore year.

Lawson is a bit short and reminds me a lot of DJ Augustin but if Beno re-signs do we still pick a PG and ignore the PF position another year?