Realistic "wish" list?

[Purple Reign]

As Monarchs Fans, if you had a "Realistic" Wish List (which means something that you feel can realistically happen, nothing that is wishful fantasy thinking), what would you like to see happen personnel wise before the season starts.

I would like to see Yolanda Griffith come back and the team find a way to play her with Brunson and Walker; so that the team does not have to use #10 pick for a post player. And then either make a draft day trade or use that #10 pick to acquire a young point guard. If you trade for a point, it would be to a team that has a young guard available, and may have a need that can be filled at #10.

Sparks have a stable of Baker, Fernandez, Temeka Johnson, Sidney Spencer and Marie Ferdinand-Harris. To me either Baker or Fernandez is expendable, and maybe for the right price (not the #10, but something) one of those two could be available.

Or this may be 'fantasy" but what about #10 pick and Ticha to New York for Loree Moore?

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

A few thoughts come to mind for me on that. We're going to need a post eventually, there are posts to be had in this draft so I'd prefer to keep the #10 unless I got incredibly blown away by a deal to trade it.

For the sake of argument let's say Yo does come back this year...what's rolling around in my head for why you maybe could argue forgoing using the 10th pick is the same reason why I guess it would be valuable in the deal you have Reign sending Ticha to New York. And that argument would be I suppose that 10 minutes of Yo is better than minutes in street clothes or 10 minutes from any of the posts we'd draft @ 10 under the thinking that nobody we draft is going to play a significant role this year. I might bite on that, if Yo doesn't stay retired. If she does, however, we have a roster spot open for a post so I'd rather get one either via trade, free agency or draft or a combination thereof.

The flip side of that deal however, not sure I see why we'd do it, or why NY would do it. If they want Ticha, they could have her right now (theoretically) since she is a free agent (or was, Whiz expected her to have her signed contract with her when she rolled back to Sacramento this past weekend - so her announcement should be coming). Who does New York need at the 10th pick that they'd give up Moore to get it? Especially if they already draft ahead of that spot currently. More importantly though, why would we do that deal? We have our point situation settled, conceivably, with Ticha and Kara splitting the duties. Do we really need Loree Moore? (EDIT: NY currently holds the 7th and 14th picks in the first round).

What does Baker give us? Baker to me is a shorter version of Robinson - so to me we already have her on the roster. Robinson to me is also a younger version of Ferdinand-Harris as well in terms of what she does on the floor (she just plays fewer minutes).

Fernandez may stay in Spain re: the Olympics so she may not help anybody this year.

I want a post, I can get a pg in the draft who can eat minutes behind the two I presently have.

 

[Luv13fan]

Deals that can be made...


Up to this point I have been angling to make a trade to get into the 2nd round and pick up a point guard there. Most of the point guards in this draft are projected to go in the high 2nd round. And make no mistake about it, The Monarchs are Drafting a POST in the 1st round.

However the NY scenario presents an interesting opportunity. It would require giving up something we will miss. In looking at their roster NY has Loree Moore is the Point and that is about it. I am not sure they will trade her for Ticha. However what they may do is try to upgrade their 2 guard position. There are some exciting 2's in the draft. They are sure to get one at the #7 spot, but not one with WNBA Championship experience. Not like Kara Lawson. They could use a steady influence to balance the youth on the wings.

I have been thinking that Kara is a great asset to us, but she is basically being relegated to a career back-up. I would hate to do it, but it is something that New York may bite on. In return we can get the #14 pick. Or we can toss in a player or 2 and get Tiffany Jackson along with the #27 pick. Maybe even Kara and (2) Players to be named Later for Ashley Battle and the #14 is a possibility. The point is we have to give up something, but we get something promising in return.

This is risky because if Ticha goes down we are in a real hole. But then again we are in a hole if she goes down anyway. This move gives us the option of getting 2 pieces in the draft, or leveraging the #14 for someone else available.

Then again we can always just sign a FA PG. I think Amber Jacobs is just about done in Minny. Perhaps a change of scenery could help her disposition. She is not my first choice, but you never really know what could happen. I don't think she will be expensive and if things stay the way they are we won't be in a position to Draft a PG. This may be a consideration anyway just as an insurance Policy. Sure Kara can run the point, but why not bring in an inexpensive vet. Sign her to a 2 year deal and see what happens.

I keep hearing Indy is close to a Deal with Barbara Farris, but Boy would I like to have her toughness down low.

Now granted Farris and Jacobs are short term Solutions. Band-Aids if you will, the long term solution is to get better draft positions. Or be willing to trade for younger players.
Big Duh Right???

I know... but the only way I see that happening is trading players for draft picks next year. This year I think is shot.

In my Fantasy… I would love for SFO to give up that #18 pick to us, so we actually could draft for the future. A point and a Post. But I don’t see that happening with any of the teams drafting 15-21. They either need their pick or won’t trade it out of spite.

Realistically I think we are moving forward with the Group we have, with few additions other than the #10 Draft pick which will be a post.
If we are smart we pick up a PG via FA. I mentioned Jacobs cause I thought she would be inexpensive and I think she still has an upside. Kiesha Brown and Pee Wee Johnson are also available. I kinda liked Brown. She was a pain on defense but a hot mess with those T.O.’s.
Pee-Wee… Hmmmmm

There is Jen Derevjanik, she is Big at 5’10 comes from a run and gun offense in Phoenix. Not the Stuff that Dynasties are made of, but there are possibilities out there. I’ll just be glad when we start to move on some.

 

[Purple Reign]

Realistically I think we are moving forward with the Group we have, with few additions other than the #10 Draft pick which will be a post.

I'm not quite sure the #10 pick will be a post player. Had Walker not come back I would say absolutely. But based on how DeMya is progressing, your front line of a 30 year old healthy Walker, a 26 year old All Star Brunson, and a 25 year old Powell is set for now into the future. Another post player to me would be nice but is not urgent. With Adrian Williams and maybe a free agent pick up I think you can live for now

To me the urgency is the back court:
- Ticha Penicheiro is 33 years old with no back up.
- Outside of Lawson and Powell, there is no perimeter shooting on this team!!!
- No future point guard in the waiting.


The point guard we had did not work out and is gone. Sure you can get by with Lawson backing her up. But Kara is not a traditional point guard. If Ticha goes down, it will go bad.

At #10 you figure Humphrey (Georgia), Harper and Langhorne (Maryland), Pringle (UNC), one of those players should be there. Do you feel comfortable going with any of those players into the future, when you still have this gaping hole in your back court? I don't. If there is a deal out there to be made, where you can broker that #10 into a solid, young but veteran point guard that can shoot, I am all for that. if you can't then pick one of those four post players.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

"Gaping hole" in a relative sense...unless we change philosophically over the course of the time Ticha continues to be under contract here - we just need people who can handle the ball and be effective in the minutes they get at any spot they have in the guard rotation. Ticha's value is that she's one of the best defensive players we have on this team and she runs the team extremely well. Career back up is a relative term too. The only guard on this team who gets more minutes than Kara has been Ticha. Deverjanik and Jacobs are even more of the career back-up/journeywoman than Kara is.

If Ticha or Kara go down certainly we'll have a need for an emergency point guard, but I don't see how that point guard surplants either of the two we have or why she should. Kara is going to slide up into Haynie's pg minutes and conversely play fewer at the off guard slot, which means more minutes there for Atkinson and Robinson. But for the sake of argument let's go with a Loree Moore and Kara Lawson backcourt, doesn't that leave us in the same position if either of those two go down? But before we even get there, I'm still not seeing why New York gives us Moore in exchange for pick in the first round in between two picks they already have. If she's young, can run an offense, play defense and shoot - why give her up for one who is not young, but can run an offense and shoo, um can run an offense and play defense If they sent us their last pick in the first round back for Ticha and we used to draft who? We just traded down away from posts who could have fallen to us higher. If we use the pick to draft Beck/Zoll or anybody else, we just had a trade that would presumably involve swapping point guards so the each team could draft one too.

Where I saw Haynie falter last year is from an efficiency standpoint, the team wasn't as productive in her rotation minutes as she or it had been in the past. Kara's natural position she says is pg and she played it at Tenn until Zolman got there.

But to get us in a common place, what are we all defining as "traditional point guard" ? Are we talking height?

Where I do agree in the list of urgency is perimeter scoring. We need to get better at scoring from there at the guard spot and Kara running more offense than taking shot from there worries me more than her running point does. That's where losing Haynie actually hurts us, we lost another perimeter scorer.

Oh, and to answer the question about the posts we'd be able to get at 10? Absolutely I think the posts that would be there or could be there can be valuable pieces to us in the future. What Whiz argued last week was that Brunson has been a developmental project (per se, not in the ordinary sense) and 4 years later she is an allstar. He seemed to vew this year's crop of posts as equally a mining process. I certainly would agree in the sense that, as I mentioned in the draft thread, everybody not named Parker, Fowles or Larkins, is perceived to have flaws in their game that will either delay or challenge their ability to be huge stars at this level. Otherwise, they can be productive role-playing pieces that require a good system fit to be successful or contibutitors from day 1. We need building blocks, not replacements at this point. Where we will need a solid replacement for Yo's minutes or role, they're working on acquiring one.

 

[Luv13fan]

To me the urgency is the back court:
- Ticha Penicheiro is 33 years old with no back up.
- Outside of Lawson and Powell, there is no perimeter shooting on this team!!!
- No future point guard in the waiting.


The point guard we had did not work out and is gone. Sure you can get by with Lawson backing her up. But Kara is not a traditional point guard. If Ticha goes down, it will go bad.

I agree...
But we painted ourselves in a corner, and there is a better crop of PG's/SG's coming out next year IMO. We undersold ourselves at the PG position. I believe Haynie was better than we gave her credit for. Always have.

But at the end of the day... We have Scholanda and Chelsea. Both of which can slash and attack the basket. And are capable of hitting jumpers. Hopefully more consistant coming into this year. Kara won't be starting, more likely she will be running Blue Squad, so yeah that really limites our outside scoring.

But what we really missed last year was a post game that could turn that would be penetrator around. Other than Bekkah we had absolutely NO post presence. I believe that really compromised the effectiveness of the White Line. Having DeMya back at 75%-80% really helps that effort. Perhaps getting a greater contribution from FroZilla, could help too. A-DUB was Too Soft. PERIOD. Soft Post Players DONOT WORK IN THE WHITE LINE. Yeah she gave us points and had some nice games for us. But she got pushed around way too much. And that is unacceptable for a 7 year Vet.
This is a nice Post Class. And since we only have 1 seriously valuable pick, it needs to be a post. Of Course Iam operating on the assumption that we are not getting a 2nd round pick.

And now that I have had a chance to think about it more, Jacobs is looking a little bit better. She has lost confidence in her shot a little but she is very capable of scoring, she has played PG in the W. If only for a little while. And Cheap, did I mention we could get her for relatively cheap. Hell what do we really lose by getting her to plug that hole for now. Btw. I agree that Deverjanik and Jacobs are even more of the career back-up/journeywoman than Kara is. But getting one of them is assuming that Kara is staying.

The option of trading Kara Assumed that we would get pieces or Drafts of Value. We can Sign Deverjanik or Jacobs without losing anything. And with Minny being loaded at the Guard position, plus stacked with Draft picks, aquiring Jacobs for Spot work is doable/affordable and a viable option.


Second I am of the Opinion the more I hear that Yo isn't coming back. Which will make the need for Drafting a Post even more pressing.

Finally I would really like to see Camp be more competitive.
This whole place holder/Camp Fodder thing we have been doing over the last few years is boring. I say we have people coming in and fighting for Jobs. I get the fact that the players are overseas. But Missing all of camp is absurd. There are alot of leagues that get done around the time camp starts. And Lets face it, they are not broke. I say bring folks in Who are actually gonna challenge for roster spots, and hey have some folks do Bench time until they learn the system if they aren't here. Don't just hand them starting jobs unless they are far and above supperior to the alternative.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

I'm still not sure why we would acquire a point guard and expect them to get minutes here. Are we nixing the idea that Kara should run point?

I'm looking at Jacobs numbers (Derevjanik is slightly more appealing to me but that's not saying much), she's been in Minny for a while, had one season where she started and the next year Minny acquires not one but two lottery pick point guards in the draft and both start over her in 07. I can write that off as system misfit or whatever or that Minny had to do the deal to get Harding because well, she's Lindsay Harding.

But if I look at her numbers and compare them to Haynie's? I'd rather re-acquire Haynie. My read of their numbers is that Jacobs is perhaps more suited to starting than she is coming off the bench, her numbers were significantly better when she started. Haynie nearly beats her across the board as a backup (avg 4 more minutes granted, but still, you should be able to shoot better regardless of your minutes if you can shoot). And Haynie's numbers last year we all would agree were a significant drop off from what she had done previously in her career here. As I mentioned earlier, we're going to miss Haynie's nearly 50% shooting from the perimeter off the bench if Atkinson, Newton and Robinson don't pick up their games from the arc.

Are we trying to pick up somebody to eventually start over Ticha or once Ticha retires?

 

[Purple Reign]

I'm still not sure why we would acquire a point guard and expect them to get minutes here. Are we nixing the idea that Kara should run point?

Are we trying to pick up somebody to eventually start over Ticha or once Ticha retires?

Yes to nixing Kara running the point!
No to starting over Ticha (but yes to splitting time with her in '08)
Yes to replacing Ticha once she is gone.

To me the WNBA has now become a perimeter and skills oriented, guard engined, ball handling, run league. Shooting, scoring, passing, motion, ball control:

Phoenix with Taurasi and Pondexter
San Antonio with Hammon
Detroit with Nolan and Smith
Minnesota with Harding and Augustus
Seattle with Bird and Jackson (and now Swoopes and Cash)
Sacramento has Powell and............

I agree with Luv13fan. Kara Lawson has been defined as a career back-up/off the bench Vinny Johnson/Leandro Barbosa/Manu Ginobli type player. I want to keep her in that role. Which means your starting back court of Ticha and Newton does not, neither will not fit the shooting, scoring, passing, motion, ball control. Yes they can defend with the absolute best, but we need shooting and scoring as well. Ticha is 33 years old, about to play her 11th season with a lot of WNBA and European miles on her. If she goes down this year........IMHO the Monarchs can kiss the playoffs good-bye.

Once again I feel it is crucial that theis team begin to move forward into the future by acquiring a point guard for the future. Someone that can split minutes with Ticha THIS SEASON, and can run this club and join the future core of Powell, Brunson and Walker.

 

[Purple Reign]

Well, partly because we may be in the market now for a young point guard, and partly because I've had this file of stuff I've been collecting. Here is a spotlight of the top seniors available in the draft class.

Sharnee Zoll 5’8” Senior – Virginia
Current Per Game Stats through 22 games
33min 43% FG 41%3P 82% FT 8.3 pts 3.2reb 5.6ast .04blk 1.7stl a/to 1.9

(University of Virginia Bio and Stats)
(USA Basketball Bio and Stats)
(Photo Montage)
Guard Zoll Gives A Clinic on Playing the Point
Zoll Follows Virginia Greats

When Zoll arrived on the Charlottesville campus of the University of the Virginia, she had her sight locked on legendary point guard Dawn Staley’s assist record. As a testament to her ability to accomplish what she set her mind to and the confidence to chase a legend, she is currently about 37 assists away from Dawn, and from becoming the all time career assist leader in ACC history. Good decision maker, ball handler, distributor and a relatively good defender. And in true throw-back, old school point guard fashion, she’ll score when you need her to but it’s not her first thought. She has a decent shot from the floor and from the perimeter and is solid from the free throw line.

Kimberly Beck 5’8” Senior – George Washington
Current Per Game Stats through 22games
37min 41% FG 40% 3P 82% FT 13.5pts 2.8reb 6.2ast 0.5 blk 2.2stl a/to 2.5
(George Washington University Bio)
(2006/2007 GW Season Highlight Video) (fast forward to 9 mins or so in)
George Washington’s Beck Is Woman Of the Moment

If you like your point guards fiery, and who head up a bad *** swarming defense. Here’s your gal. I’ll let you in on a secret to my scouting, if they can rebound? I’m sold. If they can shot block, I’m volunteering to pick them up at the airport, carry their bags and shuttle them to and from the practice facility. Beck can do both, along with acting like a floor general, distributing the ball and dropping in a few points now and then. Including daggers to knock teams out of the big dance. She finished third to winner Lindsay Harding and runner up Kristi Tolliver in the media voting for the Nancy Lieberman award given to the nation’s top point guard. Not bad company to have your name mentioned in the same breath with. She’s rail thin, but there’s plenty of time to bulk her up. Beck slightly trails LSU's Erica White in the national rankings for assist to turnover ratio. She’s likely to be the first pg off the board, so I’m trying to control my lust.

If either of these two players are available, and if there is any way the Monarchs can get into the second round to grab one of these two, I would be satisfied and would be happy with choosing a post in with the #10.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

How does Kara not fit that role of engine driven guard if she starts when Ticha is gone? Lawson, Newton, Powell as your guard/wing trio got you to the Finals in 2005.

I don't think I necessarily am disagreeing with you per se, because I still need to be weaned off my desire to have Lawson at the off guard spot for the majority of her minutes than having her running point the majority of her minutes. And, I still want a guard of some sort drafted who can score from the perimeter because I am in complete, absolute, total and utter agreement that we for the most part are horrible from there whenever we don't have Powell or Lawson together in a rotation. We should be able to avoid having teams zone us from now until the end of time if we figure out how to not have people STILL standing around when they don't have the ball in what continues to be defined as a "motion" offense AND if we have people committed to hitting the offensive glass. That's why it doesn't really matter to me the size on the point guard we draft as long as they have some perimeter ability you have to respect (I also don't care if the point we draft this year is someone we groom for the starter job or what, because again I don't think the term "starter" matters, everybody who gets minutes there is going to be expected to produce and I suspect the 40 minutes there will be split regardless between Kara and whoever takes a roster spot Ticha vacates). If you have to respect the shooter out on the wing, that's one less defender in the paint and that's always good.

However, though, I do also feel that we can run and score with the best of them with a future lineup that has Lawson, Powell, Brunson and a combination of Robinson/Newton/Atkinson logging minutes at the 2. We should be able to kill people with that plus some other pieces around them who can board and run, because the other thing we have going for us here is that the word "defense" is in our vocabulary. (Although it needs to be there with a lot more damn regularity this season than it seemed to be last season - until we get back to playing defense consistently we're not running PERIOD even if we channeled a 22 year old Ticha Penichiero into the heiress apparent and surrounded her with Taurasi, Augustus, Beard and Parker).

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

If either of these two players are available, and if there is any way the Monarchs can get into the second round to grab one of these two, I would be satisfied and would be happy with choosing a post in with the #10.

You aren't getting either of these two unless you draft them at 10 and forgo a post. I just don't feel the Ms need a point THAT badly to forgo a post unless they trade or otherwise acquire a post who fills the immediate need that will exist if Yo stays retired (and ultimately announces same). And if you are trading for a post or some player, your best bargining chip is probably the 10th pick.

 

[Purple Reign]

You aren't getting either of these two unless you draft them at 10 and forgo a post. I just don't feel the Ms need a point THAT badly to forgo a post unless they trade or otherwise acquire a post who fills the immediate need that will exist if Yo stays retired (and ultimately announces same). And if you are trading for a post or some player, your best bargining chip is probably the 10th pick.

So my question is do we feel comfortable with a back court of:
- 33 year Old Ticha (that can not score)
- Kara Lawson as a back up point (who is not a traditional point)
- Chelsea Newton (who is inconsistent shooting and scoring at best)
- and a free agent (which we know there is not much out there to be had)

I don't feel comfortable with that. I would absolutely use #10 to get one of those point guards and ride with the post players I have. With or without Griffith, the front court is far more stable than the back court IMHO. Because as I said originally, if Ticha goes down, who is going to fill that spot? Kara? Maybe. I would rather get "the point guard of the future" now and deal with a back up post player next season.

If Walker or Brunson goes down, I think you can always pull Yo out of retirement to fill that slot.

 

[VF21]

FYI: Hope nobody minds. I split this off from the Brunson/Powell thread as I really thought it was worthy of its own moment in the sun.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

So my question is do we feel comfortable with a back court of:
- 33 year Old Ticha (that can not score)
- Kara Lawson as a back up point (who is not a traditional point)
- Chelsea Newton (who is inconsistent shooting and scoring at best)
- and a free agent (which we know there is not much out there to be had)

I don't feel comfortable with that. I would absolutely use #10 to get one of those point guards and ride with the post players I have. With or without Griffith, the front court is far more stable than the back court IMHO. Because as I said originally, if Ticha goes down, who is going to fill that spot? Kara? Maybe. I would rather get "the point guard of the future" now and deal with a back up post player next season.

If Walker or Brunson goes down, I think you can always pull Yo out of retirement to fill that slot.

If Walker or Brunson go down (which they both technically did last year in our freakish collection of walking (and not so walking) wounded last year, you are down to Adrian Williams and whoever isn't hurt running post. If you can get Yo out of retirement she'd be signed on to play right now. She could conceivably be more motivated to come help us out if we got down to two healthy posts but that's pushing it. But beyond that, we should be looking young post. If we get somebody else in as a post via trade, cool. But we simply can't come into the season IMO with just three posts on the roster.

Kara ran this team over the Comets and into the Finals in 2005, she's definitely grown since her rookie year running this offense.

But let me back up and put the question out there again, what defines a "traditional point guard" ? What qualities/characteristics are we looking for with that?

 

[uncommonclay]

M's "point guard" ...

" what defines a "traditional point guard" ? What qualities/characteristics are we looking for with that?"

I don't see much beyond bringing the ball reliably up the floor, in to the front court and throwing the first pass in the offense once across the midline ... the M's barely seem to fast break, sure they run, but they don't finish with layups - so we don't need Magic Johnson or Steve Nash much, Ticha is a GREAT passer anyway, so we already have that ...

So what if Kara or Chelsea or ? brings the ball up? They're not gonna be too tired to play offense once they get there --- I don't see a problem with anybody who can reliably bring the ball across half court -- what else do we really need from the "point guard"?

The other thing the PG must do is defend like there is no tomorrow ...

 

[Purple Reign]

To me a traditional point guard is one that controls the tempo and is the quarterback of the offense. i.e. Steve Nash, Chris Paul on the NBA side. Kelly Miller, Lindsay Whalen, Sue Bird in the "W". They all have an instinct of controling the pace of the game, getting players where they need to be, distributing the ball and most importantly creating shots for others which is making players around them better and be able to create for themselves. Especially Paul, Nash and Whalen they have that extra "IT", TO GO OFF FOR THIRTY POINTS if their team needs it. That is something the Monarchs have never, ever had. Not many WNBA teams do, but to me that is what a quality point guard can do.

Ticha falls into the mold of Jason Kidd. A big, strong guard that defends, passes like a wizard, rebounds, but is offensively inconsistant. Can hit the big shot if you need it, but defenses slump off because of offensive defieciencies.

Kara is more Katie Smith, Becky Hammon like. Can play the position if duty calls, but is more shooting guard than creator of shots. Have the ablility to get you in the offense, but then sits and wait for their own open shot.

If Beck or Zoll has any qualities of the prototypical point guard, I say grab them at #10 and deal with the post later. Let Brunson, Walker, Powell and Williams handle he post.

 

[MamaBristow]

So my question is do we feel comfortable with a back court of:
- 33 year Old Ticha (that can not score)
- Kara Lawson as a back up point (who is not a traditional point)
- Chelsea Newton (who is inconsistent shooting and scoring at best)
- and a free agent (which we know there is not much out there to be had)

I don't feel comfortable with that. I would absolutely use #10 to get one of those point guards and ride with the post players I have. With or without Griffith, the front court is far more stable than the back court IMHO. Because as I said originally, if Ticha goes down, who is going to fill that spot? Kara? Maybe. I would rather get "the point guard of the future" now and deal with a back up post player next season.

If Walker or Brunson goes down, I think you can always pull Yo out of retirement to fill that slot.

It is sort of a weak PG draft, so I can't see us using the 10th pick on one when there will be solid posts available at that spot. I don't really follow college that much though, so my knowledge is spotty. As far as I can tell, this is a post-heavy draft, and there should still be someone pretty darn good available at #10.

Even if Yo did come back (which it does not look like will happen at this point), you are looking at a very questionable post rotation. DeMya Walker, as much as I love her and believe in her determination to come back better than ever, is still coming off of a career threatening injury. And besides that, she hasn't actually played a full, healthy season for us in YEARS. Yo would be playing reduced minutes and likely wouldn't be able to carry us the way she used to. So she's another question mark, IMO. That leaves you with Rebekkah Brunson and Adrian Williams. We NEED post help, even if those four are all on our roster.

There are no Lindsay Whalens or Sue Birds in this year's draft. If we want to get a PG as an insurance policy for our Ticha/Kara back court, I think we either need to make a move for a 2nd round pick to snag Beck or Zoll, pick up a free agent (not a great list), or make a trade. Unless Minny is shopping one of their young PGs, there aren't really any trades I'd even be interested in. But unless we acquire a post before the draft, there is no way I use that first round pick on a point guard. Besides, we can still pick up a point guard in the 3rd round with one of our many picks. I don't think there are any superstars to be had, but we can definitely get a "natural point guard". I'd rather take a chance with Amanda Rego than any of the shrimpy PGs that are likely to be available, but that's cause I'm biased against the vertically challenged PGs (unless their name is Tyus Edney, I loved him, go figure)

This is who we have right now:

Ticha/Kara
Newton/Robinson
Powell/Atkinson/Smith
Brunson/Frohlich
Walker/Williams

Bottom line for me is this, I think it would be a waste to use our first rounder on a point guard given the talent available in this draft. We need help in the post and we're in a good position to snag one. If we really want to get a point guard this year, it would be better to make a deal for someone's 2nd round pick where Beck and Zoll should still be on the board. No need to make an "Ashley Shields" pick.

 

[kennadog]

DeMya Walker, as much as I love her and believe in her determination to come back better than ever, is still coming off of a career threatening injury. And besides that, she hasn't actually played a full, healthy season for us in YEARS.

This is what I worry about. We just cannot pretend DeMya will be a sure thing. With Yo likely gone and an unreliable DeMya, we need help on the front line.

I don't think we have the PG we are going to need for the near future, but it's just not as dire a need right now, IMHO.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Miller, Bird and Whalen were lottery pick point guards and if such a category existed in 1998, Ticha would have been as well if these are our measuring sticks. Hammon (who I'll toss out is undersized) was undrafted (because of said undersizeness).

If the definition includes the phrase "not many do..." it seemingly can't mean "traditional" Kara can light people up, there seems to be something else she lacks that keeps the discussion moving away from her becoming the leader of this offense.

I'm not convinced this pg class weak, the top 10 players in this draft just doesn't include a point guard for the first time in a long time. Two of the top 3 points in the country are juniors. If we were in need of a wing as we'd be screwed because this year's class lacks depth there. But there is depth in the pg/combo guard pool IMO, which seques nicely into the next paragraph....

I'll take a point in the 3rd who has a perceived weakness or weaknesses in her game because she shouldn't be expected to do much of anything this season if she dresses at all...perimeter scoring, defense and rebounding preferrable. If it's Rego, or somebody else I don't care as long as they can run this team, not turn the ball over, play defense and shoot/score. The quality I do want in a point guard of the future is one who will take shots. I want every player on this team taking shots when they have them...period. As I posted in the other thread, I also am partial to giving teams multiple looks and if that look is speed, I'm down with that.

Chameka Scott may also be hanging around available and interested since we may now have minutes. Any thoughts?

 

[Den-Den]

Since you posed the question MBF re "what defines a "traditional" pointguard, thought I would post this excellent article by Clay over at fullcourt.com:

http://fullcourt.scout.com/2/477500.html.

While it is from Dec 2005--right after we one the championship, it is still one of the best descriptions that I have read on point guards. They are definitely not just someone who brings the ball up the court.

MBF has listed several point guard options for the coming draft--(9) of which were up for the Nancy Leiberman Award recently. Most likely, none of them will go before our #10 pick. Many will not go before the end of the 2nd round. With any luck, several should still be available into the 3rd round, where we have (3) picks. I think that we have room to find a point there, and groom them to work in the Monarch's system (white-line, etc.)

Definitely use the 10-pick for a post. Nice bigs this year, and we desperately need one. Sadly the Ticha-Yo years are over. Personally, I am looking forward to at least another 2-3 years of the Ticha-Bekka combo.

 

[uncommonclay]

"thee quarterback of the offense"

I don't like the "quarterback of the offense" analogy, at least not in the narrow sense .... my problem is that whomever has the ball, needs to be the QB of the offense -- meaning that they will need to have good court awareness, make good decisions, and make a good pass, or a good offensive move - shot, dribble, screen - whatever it is. I don't like the offense when there is one QB and 4 offensive linemen ... A GOOD offense needs 5 players that can do good things with the ball, the offense needs to be a TEAM, a 5 player coordinated unit, so that collectively it can probe, penetrate, and put up points on the defense. We've all seen how painful it is when Ticha passes up an open shot, but the same thing happens when other players make bad passes, or don't make good passes, or end their dribble too soon --- Offensive stagnation and futility ...

 

[uncommonclay]

"They are definitely not just someone who brings the ball up the court."

Well, that's not exactly what I said ... I do think that it's the one unique thing the point guard does ... but as my previous post described, I'm looking for "point guard" stuff from ALL the players - make good decisions, make good passes, play good defense, take and make key shots ... that article was really pretty vague, it was just talking about making good, smart, basketball plays ... ALL the players need to do that for the TEAM to be successful ...

 

[Purple Reign]

I don't like the "quarterback of the offense" analogy, at least not in the narrow sense .... my problem is that whomever has the ball, needs to be the QB of the offense -- meaning that they will need to have good court awareness, make good decisions, and make a good pass, or a good offensive move - shot, dribble, screen - whatever it is. I don't like the offense when there is one QB and 4 offensive linemen ... A GOOD offense needs 5 players that can do good things with the ball, the offense needs to be a TEAM, a 5 player coordinated unit, so that collectively it can probe, penetrate, and put up points on the defense. We've all seen how painful it is when Ticha passes up an open shot, but the same thing happens when other players make bad passes, or don't make good passes, or end their dribble too soon --- Offensive stagnation and futility ...

But you have to have somebody that is (and excuse me for using another analogy) but "a general on the field". I think about the Kings offense before Beno Udrich. It was rutterless. As a matter of fact Kara Lawson is Francisco Garcia. She maybe better ball handler but they have the same type game. Neither screams floor general. Both are good at what they do, but i would not want either of them at point full time.

And if Ticha goes down, that is exactly what is going to happen. I will say, that I have been convinced that maybe getting a post @ #10 is probably best, but I would be a happy, happy fan if we can find some way to acquire "at least" a combo guard that can have impact in 2008 that can score.

 

[kennadog]

If anybody wants to know what difference a really good "true" point guard makes to a team just look at Nash, Williams, Paul or Kidd in the NBA. They don't just play "in" the offense, they "run" the offense. They decide what the plays will be and they direct all the other offensive players. And I don't think it works to have 5 QBs on the floor anymore than 5 generals work on one battlefield. Someone has to take the lead. That does not mean that no other offensive player will ever do PG-like things, it's just not their primary role and purpose for being on the floor.

 

[uncommonclay]

someone has to take the lead ...

i'm just sayin' it's the person with the ball ... when Nash doesn't have the ball, who has the lead, him or the guy with the ball ?

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Let me ask the philosophical question then, which may or may not be theoretical, I'm not sure. But is Kara not fitting into the "traditional point guard" category because she also played at the off guard spot? Can an effective point guard not have both skill sets? To me that makes a guard more valuable to a team that plays nearly 11 deep.

For instance, I had someone suggest to me early last season that Haynie had more utility to us if she could have/would have been used more in the off guard spot so that she was on the floor defensively and shooting more than quarterbacking the offense.

I definitely believe leadership is an essential quality for a point guard, an understanding of the offense, her opponent's defensive tendencies, her player's strengths/weaknesses and how to make quick decisions to exploit or enhance the above. But it also seems to me that to some extent (and I'm guilty of this too) Kara is getting dinged for the exact opposite reason that Ticha gets dinged...Kara in addition to setting her teammates up, she is also looking for her shot.

 

[kennadog]

i'm just sayin' it's the person with the ball ... when Nash doesn't have the ball, who has the lead, him or the guy with the ball ?

Nash is still the floor leader, without a doubt.

 

[uncommonclay]

spirit of debate ... ; )

Nash is still the floor leader, without a doubt.

so what is the guy with the ball? a follower looking over to nash to get told what to do? that dude (forgive me for using the male for a minute) needs to do something positive with the ball, i.e to lead ... to go with the anaology, what good is a football QB without the ball? a symbolic floor leader?

 

[kennadog]

Let me ask the philosophical question then, which may or may not be theoretical, I'm not sure. But is Kara not fitting into the "traditional point guard" category because she also played at the off guard spot? Can an effective point guard not have both skill sets? To me that makes a guard more valuable to a team that plays nearly 11 deep.

But it also seems to me that to some extent (and I'm guilty of this too) Kara is getting dinged for the exact opposite reason that Ticha gets dinged...Kara in addition to setting her teammates up, she is also looking for her shot.

I don't know. A shooting guard is just that, a shooter. They're out there to primarily to shoot/score and to guard the other team's two-guard. It is not their "role" to primarily make the offensive decisions for the team and set other players up.

Honestly, I think Kara is a little slow for a PG and maybe a little slow to be able to guard many other PGs. What she does have going for her out there is superior basketball IQ. She knows what to do and and probably knows exactly what everyone else out there should be doing. Another thing she has is that leadership quality a PG needs. She's out there to win.

I suppose some might call Kara a 'tweener. Some qualities of both positions, but maybe not the desired prototype at either. We can call it versatility.

 

[uncommonclay]

What she does have going for her out there is superior basketball IQ. She knows what to do and and probably knows exactly what everyone else out there should be doing. Another thing she has is that leadership quality a PG needs.

I totally agree with that, in that sense, I think she has the floor "General" qualities ... i think she will have that quality even more so this season ...