Garnett to the Celtics (merged)

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
#31
My my my. I have a feeling in the end this could end up like the late career attempts at Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley and Hakeem/Pippen/Barkley in Houston in the late 90's -- fall short in the end. But that's still going to be a heck of a team, and fall short is still 55 wins and a real shot to come out of the East. I agree its kind of amusing that this is what Ainge will be remembered for after years of bumbling about wiht exactly the opposite strategy, then a sudden panic, and voila! All the young pieces/picks pay off suddenly in the most unexpectd fashion.

Gomes will be a good 6th man. Perkins a solid roleplaying center (we don't understand that "roleplaying" thing around here but its all you want or need with a star laden lineup -- guy who plays without the ball). And if Tony Allen comes back from injury he and Gomes together can be a good energetic bench duo. But amusingly after being absolutely drowning in a pile of young borderline starter/bencher PGs in recent years, if Telfair and Rondo go in this deal that would leave....? They don't need much there but unless Allen can play PG (which I doubt), they won't even have a body to throw out there. Hmm...maybe they should help us out and snap up Mike Wilks before he's gone. ;)

P.S. from our perspective I wonder if this might rekindle interest in Cleveland (Bibby), Miami (Bibby or Artest), or New York (Artest) in getting something done to keep up with the Joneses. If Geoff even has a phone with him on the beach out in Tahiti that is.
 
Kingzrool

Kingzrool

Starter
#32
#32
hrdboild said:
There's more to sports than winning a championship. I'd rather have a really good team for 10 years and come close than to win one championship and then fade into obscurity for the next 10 years.
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??? It is all about the title.

Being second best for 10 years straight < being the best for 1 year.
 
chaps

chaps

G-League
#33
#33
Uh-oh...

What are all the Garnett haters gonna say now? He's never won anything bla bla bla. yeah well, he's never had help either. Players don't win NBA championships, teams do. You think Duncan would win championships with an NBDL supporting cast like KG's had over the past years? The only year Garnett had somewhat of a supporting cast was 03-04 and he was one Sam Cassell injury away from going to the NBA finals. Insert Ray Allen and Paul Pierce with KG in the East and baring a major injury, they're a lock to go to the NBA finals.

Give KG and TD the same supporting cast and Id take Garnett any time. It's unfortunate how some don't take into account the supporting cast when they measure if a certain player is a winner or not.

Anyways, if this trade happens. All the top teams in the NBA will have a hard time stopping the Celtics. What are the Spurs gonna do against Pierce and Allen on the perimeter. Sure Bowen is gonna guard one of them but the other will have a field day lighting up whoever is guarding him. Pick your poison. God I hope this deal goes through
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#34
#34
chaps said:
Uh-oh...

What are all the Garnett haters gonna say now? He's never won anything bla bla bla. yeah well, he's never had help either. Players don't win NBA championships, teams do. You think Duncan would win championships with an NBDL supporting cast like KG's had over the past years? The only year Garnett had somewhat of a supporting cast was 03-04 and he was one Sam Cassell injury away from going to the NBA finals. Insert Ray Allen and Paul Pierce with KG in the East and baring a major injury, they're a lock to go to the NBA finals.

Give KG and TD the same supporting cast and Id take Garnett any time. It's unfortunate how some don't take into account the supporting cast when they measure if a certain player is a winner or not.

Anyways, if this trade happens. All the top teams in the NBA will have a hard time stopping the Celtics. What are the Spurs gonna do against Pierce and Allen on the perimeter. Sure Bowen is gonna guard one of them but the other will have a field day lighting up whoever is guarding him. Pick your poison. God I hope this deal goes through
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No team is a lock for the Finals in July/August. This trade obviously makes their chances a lot better, but as Brick said, this could possibly trigger Cleveland/Miami to make deals and get better. Not to mention the possible chemistry issues between the 3.
 
Evilmav2

Evilmav2

G-League
#35
#35
Criminy... Now, the Boston Globe is reporting that Al Jefferson might not be part of the deal. Regardless of conference, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Jefferson, and Garnett as a starting five would be pretty darned formidable...


New twists in Garnett talks

By Shira Springer, Globe Staff

Kevin Garnett soon could become the newest member of the Celtics, multiple league sources said this afternoon, but two of the sources cautioned that any trade may not be as imminent as some early reports indicated.

As the trade currently stands, the Celtics would send Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves for Garnett.

Al Jefferson is not included in the deal at the moment.

It is uncertain how the teams would deal with Garnett's trade clause that calls for a 15 percent salary increase.

As of this morning, there still remained issues on the table to negotiate, not the least of which is the player option worth $24 million that Garnett holds for the 2008-09 season.

“There are serious discussions in place,” Andy Miller, Garnett's agent, said this morning.

When asked about the option as well as Garnett’s willingness to play in Boston, Miller added: “Part of the discussion that is taking place is addressing those issues as well as others to see if the destination makes sense for all parties. Everything is part of the overall picture as to how to bring this to a conclusion or go in a different direction.”

When trade talks between Minnesota and Boston took place before this year’s draft, the option plus Garnett’s hesitancy to play in Boston, as relayed through his agent, were considerable sticking points. If Garnett agrees to take his player option as a condition of the trade, the Celtics also will likely look to come to reasonable terms on an extension as another condition of the deal.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2007/07/new_twists_in_g.html
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#36
#36
Jeesh -- if Ainge pulls that off without giving up Jefferson OR Rondo....well, gotta remember that Danny is negotiating with the only GM stupider than he is.

Rondo/Allen/Pierce/KG/Jefferson :eek:

That's a beast in EITHER conference.
 
Big Cuz 15

Big Cuz 15

All-Star
#37
#37
Bricklayer said:
Jeesh -- if Ainge pulls that off without giving up Jefferson OR Rondo....well, gotta remember that Danny is negotiating with the only GM stupider than he is.

Rondo/Allen/Pierce/KG/Jefferson :eek:

That's a beast in EITHER conference.
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i was wondering when you were going to chime in brick ;)

wheres nbrans for his take on this poss. trade also? :p

that trio + jefferson is just nasty. if they pull that trade off, i could see pj brown and a few other vets coming to boston for cheap in an attempt to win it all.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#39
#39
Bricklayer said:
My my my. I have a feeling in the end this could end up like the late career attempts at Hakeem/Drexler/Barkley and Hakeem/Pippen/Barkley in Houston in the late 90's -- fall short in the end. But that's still going to be a heck of a team, and fall short is still 55 wins and a real shot to come out of the East. I agree its kind of amusing that this is what Ainge will be remembered for after years of bumbling about wiht exactly the opposite strategy, then a sudden panic, and voila! All the young pieces/picks pay off suddenly in the most unexpectd fashion.

Gomes will be a good 6th man. Perkins a solid roleplaying center (we don't understand that "roleplaying" thing around here but its all you want or need with a star laden lineup -- guy who plays without the ball). And if Tony Allen comes back from injury he and Gomes together can be a good energetic bench duo. But amusingly after being absolutely drowning in a pile of young borderline starter/bencher PGs in recent years, if Telfair and Rondo go in this deal that would leave....? They don't need much there but unless Allen can play PG (which I doubt), they won't even have a body to throw out there. Hmm...maybe they should help us out and snap up Mike Wilks before he's gone. ;)

P.S. from our perspective I wonder if this might rekindle interest in Cleveland (Bibby), Miami (Bibby or Artest), or New York (Artest) in getting something done to keep up with the Joneses. If Geoff even has a phone with him on the beach out in Tahiti that is.
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I agree with you here, sort of. I think the nucleus of Garnett/Allen/Pierce is younger than the Barkley/Drexler (Pippen)/Olajuwon triumverate.

Lost in the discussion here is the fact that a nucleus has almost never been simply slapped together like this and had it just magically work out. Winning in the NBA is about more than shear talent; winning in the NBA is about having talent that works together extremely well as a group.

You can't put all those stars together and expect things to just magically work out. I would predict mid-40's in wins, and no way that team beats a Detroit in the conference finals.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#40
#40
Evilmav2 said:
Criminy... Now, the Boston Globe is reporting that Al Jefferson might not be part of the deal. Regardless of conference, Rondo, Allen, Pierce, Jefferson, and Garnett as a starting five would be pretty darned formidable...


New twists in Garnett talks

By Shira Springer, Globe Staff

Kevin Garnett soon could become the newest member of the Celtics, multiple league sources said this afternoon, but two of the sources cautioned that any trade may not be as imminent as some early reports indicated.

As the trade currently stands, the Celtics would send Gerald Green, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff, and two first-round picks to the Timberwolves for Garnett.

Al Jefferson is not included in the deal at the moment.

It is uncertain how the teams would deal with Garnett's trade clause that calls for a 15 percent salary increase.

As of this morning, there still remained issues on the table to negotiate, not the least of which is the player option worth $24 million that Garnett holds for the 2008-09 season.

“There are serious discussions in place,” Andy Miller, Garnett's agent, said this morning.

When asked about the option as well as Garnett’s willingness to play in Boston, Miller added: “Part of the discussion that is taking place is addressing those issues as well as others to see if the destination makes sense for all parties. Everything is part of the overall picture as to how to bring this to a conclusion or go in a different direction.”

When trade talks between Minnesota and Boston took place before this year’s draft, the option plus Garnett’s hesitancy to play in Boston, as relayed through his agent, were considerable sticking points. If Garnett agrees to take his player option as a condition of the trade, the Celtics also will likely look to come to reasonable terms on an extension as another condition of the deal.

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2007/07/new_twists_in_g.html
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but there is no way in hell that this happens. This has got to be some writers pipe dream.

McHale is stupid, but not stupid enough to trade Garnett for 15 cents on the dollar.
 
chaps

chaps

G-League
#41
#41
SacKings7 said:
No team is a lock for the Finals in July/August. This trade obviously makes their chances a lot better, but as Brick said, this could possibly trigger Cleveland/Miami to make deals and get better. Not to mention the possible chemistry issues between the 3.
Click to expand...
Sure, but that's gotta be the best 3-man punch in decades. I don't care who you put around them, that team is killing it. The big 3 is so good that each of them will command double-teams or else they will light up their defender. The Celtics just have to find some cheap guys that can hit open shots (definitely not a problem) and theyre off. I seriously think they can even beat the Spurs in a 7-game series, assuming theres no injuries of course. I predict that they're probably gonna have the biggest turnaround in NBA history. From second to worst record to atleast 55 wins, if not more. Im not concerned about ego issues because all 3 are veteran all-stars that know that they're window of opportunity to win a championship is rapidly closing. All 3 have a reputation for having the right attitude and all of them are gonna get their shots and Id be really surprised if they would choose to put personal stats ahead of wins when they are in a situation right now where an NBA championship is definitely a realistic goal.

Of course there's a chance this wont work out like the 03-04 Lakers. But they still made it to the NBA finals. And I seriously think this will work out.
I have officially jumped on their bandwagon...

GO CELTICS
 
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pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#42
#42
KMart23 said:
you really believe they would fire ainge after bringing over KG and Ray Ray? imagine them all expiring all in the same offseason. LOL they would be seriously under the cap ;)
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No, I just think he'd be under the gun if there weren't immediate results. My initial thoughts were that if this went down and they didn't make the Conference finals Doc would have to be out right away. Ainge would get a second year but the expectations would be equally high if not higher. We're looking at a 2-3 year window so its all or nothing... Of course that thinking was based on the assumption they were giving up Rondo and Jeff. If they traded draft picks and lesser players like is now being proposed he'll be GM of the year even though co-credit would appear to go to McHale. I'm not sure I buy this newer deal though, 'Wolves need to get something back, McHale or no McHale.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#44
#44
Ryle said:
"One involved source said the final package will have the Celts sending Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett."

According to the Boston Herald this is a done deal and that's what the trade is.....Garnett will also sign a contract extension with Boston.
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Ok, so the in between option...well kinda. Gomnes would have been useful off the bench.

Anyway:

C-- Perkins (shotblocking/rebounding roleplayer)
PF- KG
SF- Pierce
OG- Allen
PG- Rondo (defensive roleplayer)

Other than the youth at the 1 and 5 that is an excellent structure. To be perfect you;d really want Rondo to be able to hit a spot up jumper, which is obviously his biggest weakness, but still. I'm thinking you can add Boston to the long list of teams having far niftier offseasons than we are -- people would be bouncing off the walls around here if that was our lineup coming off a season where we barely won 20.

Of course now the bench is Tony Allen off a rehabbed knee, and Brian Scalabrine. But with those starters, you live with it. You don't win titles with your bench. Amzing to see Ainge just absolutely sell the complete farm system all at once though after jealously protecting even the scrubbiest 2nd round pick for years and years.
 
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C

cfechter

Bench
#45
#45
Ryle said:
"One involved source said the final package will have the Celts sending Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and a No. 1 pick to Minnesota to acquire Garnett."

According to the Boston Herald this is a done deal and that's what the trade is.....Garnett will also sign a contract extension with Boston.
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This makes a lot more sense - Young marginal star (Jefferson), a couple of decent role players (Gomes & Green), two fillers (Telfair and Ratliff) and the pick.

If you take Jefferson out of the deal, I wouldn't do it even if they added 3 more first round picks.
 
C

cfechter

Bench
#46
#46
Bricklayer said:
Of course now the bench is Tony Allen off a rehabbed knee, and Brian Scalabrine. But with those starters, you live with it. You don't win titles with your bench. Amzing to see Ainge just absolutely sell the complete farm system all at once though after jealously protecting even the scrubbiest 2nd round pick for years and years.
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Can you blame him though? I think the moves are a bit shortsighted and I don't think they'll work out as he's hoping (clearly, championship or bust), but can you blame him for taking a chance?

He's Danny Ainge though, and somehow he'll screw something up royal.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#49
#49
As an aside, hasn;t been mentioned much, but this also continues the rapid rebalancing between the East and West this offseason. After a decade of crap in the East, in 6 weeks they've added Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, Jason Richardson, Zach Randolph, and KG. Five 20 pt scorers/All-Stars.
 
chaps

chaps

G-League
#50
#50
Bricklayer said:
like I said. One GM in the league is dumber than Ainge, and he found him.
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Helps a lot when you play with the guy for almost an entire decade on one of the greatest dynasties ever.

Its like fantasy bball, its always much easier to trade with one of your buddies or a guy you know very well than a complete stranger. Sure this is the real deal, but if you think about it, its not that different at all.
 
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chaps

chaps

G-League
#51
#51
Bricklayer said:
As an aside, hasn;t been mentioned much, but this also continues the rapid rebalancing between the East and West this offseason. After a decade of crap in the East, in 6 weeks they've added Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, Jason Richardson, Zach Randolph, and KG. Five 20 pt scorers/All-Stars.
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word!

The West is still better, but the gap is not as big as it used to be.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#52
#52
And KG went from crap to crap deluxe. Still not going to win anything. At least he will only abuse us twice a year. Unfortunately, that also means that Wolves are in better position to suck more than us
 
chaps

chaps

G-League
#54
#54
piksi said:
still big enough so that whichever team comes out of WC could sweep the EC champion
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Nope. Not even the Spurs would sweep the Celtics with this line-up. Sure Pop is gonna put TD on KG and Bowen on Ray Allen or Paul Pierce. But whoever Bowen doesnt guard will light it up. Pick your poison my friend.
 
piksi

piksi

Hall of Famer
#55
#55
chaps said:
Nope. Not even the Spurs would sweep the Celtics with this line-up. Sure Pop is gonna put TD on KG and Bowen on Ray Allen or Paul Pierce. But whoever Bowen doesnt guard will light it up. Pick your poison my friend.
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and who exactly would guard TP - the finals MVP
 
chaps

chaps

G-League
#57
#57
piksi said:
and who exactly would guard TP - the finals MVP
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Rondo is a good defender. Sure Tony would score significantly against him. But not as much as Pierce or Allen will against either Finley or Manu. Plus Bowen has got to be like 42 by now. No way he'll be able to stay in front of all-star wingplayers forever.

Like I said, pick your poison. Its as simple as that.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#60
#60
Bricklayer said:
Amzing to see Ainge just absolutely sell the complete farm system all at once though after jealously protecting even the scrubbiest 2nd round pick for years and years.
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In Ainge's defense scrubby 2nd round picks are just about the only decent picks he makes. Any time he gets a high pick he blows it or trades it. He's either chicken, can't evaluate talent or both.

:confused:Hmmm, I guess that wasn't really a defense of Ainge at all.:p
 
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