Theus to be Kings' head coach
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Probably a redundant point, but...
... I ain't gonna read 239 posts to ensure lack of redundancy. So I apologize in advance.
Point 1: Reggie Theus's experience as a player happened so long ago that it barely even counts. I barely even view this as "ex-player becomes coach." His playing days are so long ago, he might as well be a former postal worker, as far as I'm concerned.
Point 2: College coaches very, very rarely do well in the pros. I'm scratching my head, trying to think who the last one was. Larry Brown is as close as I can come, and he is the wrong coach for a rebuilding team.
Point 3: "Rebuilding team" may be the key operative here. They got Reggie for 3 years, $6 million, which has to be as close to zero dollars as the Maloofs were going to get. This is a cheap, cheap, CHEAP deal. Wow. Scarily cheap. This is one guy offering a new transmission for $4,000, and another guy offering one for $1,000. Would you get the $1,000 deal if it was your car? I mean, given that you know exactly how much a transmission costs. I bet you wouldn't.
I wish Reggie well; I honestly do. But let's take this for what it is: A cheap gamble to coach a team the owners are just about 100% certain will stink for at least 2 years. My transmission parallel is appropriate... Maybe you DON'T put in the $4,000 transmission if you are certain the car only has 20,000 miles (tops) left in it; that certainly describes the condition of some of the Kings players, does it not?
So there you have it: This is probably a concession speech, but the Maloofs are asking themselves, "What if we're wrong, and this old lady of a car is still with us in 80,000 miles? That $1,000 investment will surely look great then, won't it? And if it dies in 20,000 miles, as expected, well, we didn't overpay, did we?"
Look at the chart in today's Bee that gives the winning percentages of Kings' coaches since the team came to Sac. Wow. Best winning percentage outside of Adelman was .402. Holy mackerel. People are talking about this franchise's status as though it has a long tradition, but it was just one coach. Every other coach stank!
(From a Schadenfreude POV, Bill Russell was my favorite. That was excellent. Followed closely by Dick Motta.)
... I ain't gonna read 239 posts to ensure lack of redundancy. So I apologize in advance.
Point 1: Reggie Theus's experience as a player happened so long ago that it barely even counts. I barely even view this as "ex-player becomes coach." His playing days are so long ago, he might as well be a former postal worker, as far as I'm concerned.
Point 2: College coaches very, very rarely do well in the pros. I'm scratching my head, trying to think who the last one was. Larry Brown is as close as I can come, and he is the wrong coach for a rebuilding team.
Point 3: "Rebuilding team" may be the key operative here. They got Reggie for 3 years, $6 million, which has to be as close to zero dollars as the Maloofs were going to get. This is a cheap, cheap, CHEAP deal. Wow. Scarily cheap. This is one guy offering a new transmission for $4,000, and another guy offering one for $1,000. Would you get the $1,000 deal if it was your car? I mean, given that you know exactly how much a transmission costs. I bet you wouldn't.
I wish Reggie well; I honestly do. But let's take this for what it is: A cheap gamble to coach a team the owners are just about 100% certain will stink for at least 2 years. My transmission parallel is appropriate... Maybe you DON'T put in the $4,000 transmission if you are certain the car only has 20,000 miles (tops) left in it; that certainly describes the condition of some of the Kings players, does it not?
So there you have it: This is probably a concession speech, but the Maloofs are asking themselves, "What if we're wrong, and this old lady of a car is still with us in 80,000 miles? That $1,000 investment will surely look great then, won't it? And if it dies in 20,000 miles, as expected, well, we didn't overpay, did we?"
Look at the chart in today's Bee that gives the winning percentages of Kings' coaches since the team came to Sac. Wow. Best winning percentage outside of Adelman was .402. Holy mackerel. People are talking about this franchise's status as though it has a long tradition, but it was just one coach. Every other coach stank!
(From a Schadenfreude POV, Bill Russell was my favorite. That was excellent. Followed closely by Dick Motta.)
Your points are a bit off.. He doesn't qualify as a former player? We are talking 10-15 years ago he last played. That's nothing. He is a former player, and always will be.
Point 2. College coaches don't often get the chance. Usually the NBA recycles old coaches, or give assistant coaches the change.
Give the guy a chance before you crucify him
I don't know about you guys, but this quote makes me ill. This is the guy who has had discussions with Petrie and the Maloofs on the future of the team. And he's talking about Bibby and Artest on the same team???? Holy Molie. Please don't let it mean what I think it means. Theus also said that he would rely heavily on Petrie. That sure sounds familiar. Good ol Muss said the same thing after he got hired. This is smelling really bad.
I disagree.
What else is he going to say after being hired? I don't think this would have flown to well:
"Well, I am going to talk with Bibby and set him straight on defense and shot selection. I won't bother talking with Artest, as (looks in Petrie's direction and smiles) I doubt he'll be here too long, anyways?"
Yeah, that would go over well with the team....
What else is he going to say after being hired? I don't think this would have flown to well:
"Well, I am going to talk with Bibby and set him straight on defense and shot selection. I won't bother talking with Artest, as (looks in Petrie's direction and smiles) I doubt he'll be here too long, anyways?"
Yeah, that would go over well with the team....
I know what you're saying, but you're probably reading too much into it. As of right now Bibby and Artest are members of the Kings and in their minds it is their team. I think it is a good thing for the coach to acknowledge that, it is smart. I'm almost certain that one of them will be gone, but as long as they're here might as well keep them happy.
My rebuttals:
Point 1: Again, Bill Russell comes to mind.
Point 2: Okay, which wildly successful, wildly unsuccessful, or moderately successful college coach has come into the NBA and proven himself? For each list you give me, I can give you about 4 coaches where it went the other way.
Here's a few for you, to let you know where I'm coming from: Mike Montgomery; PJ Carlesimo; Rick Pitino.
What you're saying sounds fantastic in theory, but has proven to be painfully wrong in practice. If this is a scientific experiment, your Big Question would be, "Are successful college coaches good NBA coaches?" So far, the empirical evidence is resoundingly, No. My hypothesis is closer than yours.
I offer an alternative hypothesis: Good NBA assistants are more successful as head coaches. And, again, the statistical evidence supports my hypothesis.
Sorry. I'm not making this up.
Point 1: Again, Bill Russell comes to mind.
Point 2: Okay, which wildly successful, wildly unsuccessful, or moderately successful college coach has come into the NBA and proven himself? For each list you give me, I can give you about 4 coaches where it went the other way.
Here's a few for you, to let you know where I'm coming from: Mike Montgomery; PJ Carlesimo; Rick Pitino.
What you're saying sounds fantastic in theory, but has proven to be painfully wrong in practice. If this is a scientific experiment, your Big Question would be, "Are successful college coaches good NBA coaches?" So far, the empirical evidence is resoundingly, No. My hypothesis is closer than yours.
I offer an alternative hypothesis: Good NBA assistants are more successful as head coaches. And, again, the statistical evidence supports my hypothesis.
Sorry. I'm not making this up.
Arena Skeptic,
You can make a point that ANY coach that comes into the leage whether he be a former assistant, or a college coach is about a 1 in 4 shot of being successful. You could name me one assistant to head coach and I can name you 20 that weren't successful.
Coming from a college level I think Theus is at a disadvantage.. I agree with you there. But before I throw him under the bus I will give him a chance. I think he will command a LOT more respect than Muss will. With a guy like Muss it was funny... My mother who isn't a huge fan took a look at Muss one night while I was watchign the game with my Dad and said "I don't like that guy"... Who else but Muss can conjur up those feelings
But seriously. I am not saying you are wrong for saying what you say. That would be dumb, but I do ask that you give him a chance. I will help you throw him to the lions if he sucks..
You can make a point that ANY coach that comes into the leage whether he be a former assistant, or a college coach is about a 1 in 4 shot of being successful. You could name me one assistant to head coach and I can name you 20 that weren't successful.
Coming from a college level I think Theus is at a disadvantage.. I agree with you there. But before I throw him under the bus I will give him a chance. I think he will command a LOT more respect than Muss will. With a guy like Muss it was funny... My mother who isn't a huge fan took a look at Muss one night while I was watchign the game with my Dad and said "I don't like that guy"... Who else but Muss can conjur up those feelings
But seriously. I am not saying you are wrong for saying what you say. That would be dumb, but I do ask that you give him a chance. I will help you throw him to the lions if he sucks..
If Theus has had discussions with Petrie and the Maloofs and was told that there is a very good chance that Artest and Bibby will not be with the next year, and if Theus has a modicum of intelligence, he would refer to the Kings team in general terms, not make specific reference to Bibby and Artest. If he can communicate, he would easily use an oblique answer to any questions concerning the two individuals, not address them by name and court them in open public. Calling it "their" team? Please. GAG ME! Either Theus looks like a total phony when the trades are made, or the trades AREN'T GOING TO BE MADE. Either way, it's a bad, bad start for Theus.
^^ but then answering vaguely would make you jump to the conclusion that they will be traded when 1) we don't know if it's 100% true and 2) even if we wanted to, maybe we don't find any takers, and they will end up on the team again next season.
theus is doing what the new head coach is supposed to do.
theus is doing what the new head coach is supposed to do.
And aren't we all sick of the "oblique" answers? I want someone who has a plan, who can tell me what he is going to do and get to work on it.
Bibby and Artest are team leaders, and they are both on the team at this time. I don't get your problem with him acknowledging that fact and going to work with waht he's got at this time. If/when a trade occurs, that's when you change your plan, not before this hypothetical change takes place.
Bibby and Artest are team leaders, and they are both on the team at this time. I don't get your problem with him acknowledging that fact and going to work with waht he's got at this time. If/when a trade occurs, that's when you change your plan, not before this hypothetical change takes place.
Arena Skeptic,
You can make a point that ANY coach that comes into the leage whether he be a former assistant, or a college coach is about a 1 in 4 shot of being successful. You could name me one assistant to head coach and I can name you 20 that weren't successful.
Coming from a college level I think Theus is at a disadvantage.. I agree with you there. But before I throw him under the bus I will give him a chance. I think he will command a LOT more respect than Muss will. With a guy like Muss it was funny... My mother who isn't a huge fan took a look at Muss one night while I was watchign the game with my Dad and said "I don't like that guy"... Who else but Muss can conjur up those feelings
But seriously. I am not saying you are wrong for saying what you say. That would be dumb, but I do ask that you give him a chance. I will help you throw him to the lions if he sucks..
You can make a point that ANY coach that comes into the leage whether he be a former assistant, or a college coach is about a 1 in 4 shot of being successful. You could name me one assistant to head coach and I can name you 20 that weren't successful.
Coming from a college level I think Theus is at a disadvantage.. I agree with you there. But before I throw him under the bus I will give him a chance. I think he will command a LOT more respect than Muss will. With a guy like Muss it was funny... My mother who isn't a huge fan took a look at Muss one night while I was watchign the game with my Dad and said "I don't like that guy"... Who else but Muss can conjur up those feelings
But seriously. I am not saying you are wrong for saying what you say. That would be dumb, but I do ask that you give him a chance. I will help you throw him to the lions if he sucks..
Nah, the list of successful head coaches who were once assistants is far longer (some guy named Popovich rings a bell). The other longer list: Former players. But 1991 is a generation ago. I think Reggie will be amazed at the sea change in attitudes the newer players have. For that sea change, he has a perfect example on his new squad; Mike Bibby.
Not very many players had posses in 1984. Some did, for sure, but it seems like almost all of them are incorporated now.
I have no choice but to "wait and see," do I? But so far, we have observed more failure than success from college coaches. This should be a very educational experience for everyone.
First, if you think Bibby or Artest are team leaders, we can stop right there. Bibby gets at most a D in leadership for his pre-Artest period under Adelman. He sure as heck didn't rally the troops two years ago when it was his team to rally. Artest gets an F- for being a nutcase. The two of them get F cubed in their leadership together. This team has no leaders. And I sure as heck don't want the new coach sucking up to two guys who by all accounts are supposed to be - I sure hope they are - GONE by the time the season begins. And sucking up to Ron Artest? That's what I want in a coach - a guy who sucks up to the nutcase. Why can't Reggie just shut his mouth about these guys? I'd rather him be talking about Martin, Garcia, and Douby, not Artest and Bibby. Or better yet, stick to that old fashioned concept: It's called "TEAM". Make reference to the team as opposed to two individuals who by all accounts are going to be outahere.
Why can't Reggie just shut his mouth about these guys? I'd rather him be talking about Martin, Garcia, and Douby, not Artest and Bibby. Or better yet, stick to that old fashioned concept: It's called "TEAM". Make reference to the team as opposed to two individuals who by all accounts are going to be outahere.
First, if you think Bibby or Artest are team leaders, we can stop right there. Bibby gets at most a D in leadership for his pre-Artest period under Adelman. He sure as heck didn't rally the troops two years ago when it was his team to rally. Artest gets an F- for being a nutcase. The two of them get F cubed in their leadership together. This team has no leaders. And I sure as heck don't want the new coach sucking up to two guys who by all accounts are supposed to be - I sure hope they are - GONE by the time the season begins. And sucking up to Ron Artest? That's what I want in a coach - a guy who sucks up to the nutcase. Why can't Reggie just shut his mouth about these guys? I'd rather him be talking about Martin, Garcia, and Douby, not Artest and Bibby. Or better yet, stick to that old fashioned concept: It's called "TEAM". Make reference to the team as opposed to two individuals who by all accounts are going to be outahere.
Why can't Reggie just shut his mouth about these guys? I'd rather him be talking about Martin, Garcia, and Douby, not Artest and Bibby. Or better yet, stick to that old fashioned concept: It's called "TEAM". Make reference to the team as opposed to two individuals who by all accounts are going to be outahere.
He'll talk to the young guys when they're the best players on the roster. Right now his job is to see how he can make this work and he needs to see if he can make it work with Ron/Mike. His job isn't to "tank". That's management's job if they want to tank next year. I dont even see how he's "sucking up to Ron". WTF is he supposed to say to the media? "GET THIS NUTCASE OUT OF HERE, THIS GUY IS UNCOACHABLE AND BIBBY SUCKS TOO AND I WONT MAKE IT WORK IF THATS WHAT THEY WANT ME TO DO!!1oneone!1ZOMGROFLBBQ"? He's doing his job right now...
Then again I guess there are always people who will make something out of nothing and find something to criticize.
First, if you think Bibby or Artest are team leaders, we can stop right there. Bibby gets at most a D in leadership for his pre-Artest period under Adelman. He sure as heck didn't rally the troops two years ago when it was his team to rally. Artest gets an F- for being a nutcase. The two of them get F cubed in their leadership together. This team has no leaders. And I sure as heck don't want the new coach sucking up to two guys who by all accounts are supposed to be - I sure hope they are - GONE by the time the season begins. And sucking up to Ron Artest? That's what I want in a coach - a guy who sucks up to the nutcase. Why can't Reggie just shut his mouth about these guys? I'd rather him be talking about Martin, Garcia, and Douby, not Artest and Bibby. Or better yet, stick to that old fashioned concept: It's called "TEAM". Make reference to the team as opposed to two individuals who by all accounts are going to be outahere.
Why can't Reggie just shut his mouth about these guys? I'd rather him be talking about Martin, Garcia, and Douby, not Artest and Bibby. Or better yet, stick to that old fashioned concept: It's called "TEAM". Make reference to the team as opposed to two individuals who by all accounts are going to be outahere.
Martin? Miller? Cisco? John? SAR? KT? Uh, no to all counts.
You may not like it, but Mike and Ron ARE the team leaders right now.
No matter how much you want them gone, they are on the team right now so that is what the coach has to deal with.
You keep operating in this hypothetical vacuum (this team has no leaders, I don't want ...., etc.) where the rest of us are addressing what is going on in the real world. Mike and Ron are the two team leaders for now. Until that changes, just deal with it, OK?
Not in the least.
They aren't the leaders. Becuase leaders are followed. This team has no leaders right now. If one were the closest to a leader that we have, it would be Ron. But just because we have someone assuming the leader role, doesn't make them an actual leader.
But we are rebuilding. So we will find one eventually. Probably at the same time we find an identity.
They aren't the leaders. Becuase leaders are followed. This team has no leaders right now. If one were the closest to a leader that we have, it would be Ron. But just because we have someone assuming the leader role, doesn't make them an actual leader.
But we are rebuilding. So we will find one eventually. Probably at the same time we find an identity.
S
The End All Truth About Reggie !
i like this hire. we had our backs against the wall with nothing to lose. were not looking to contend here for at least 2 seasons minus a miracle with trades and drafting. Its obvious why we didnt want Brown. And i think that Petrie and the Maloofs worryed how the players would respond to Brooks being Muss's lead assistant, even if he did distance himself from Muss on some level.
It came down to Shaw vs Reggie. sure Shaw has more NBA coaching expierence(assistant coaching). But the jump from assistant to head coach is a monster jump. Even compaired to the jump from college head coaching to the pros. A couple of people are trying to say that Reggie is too far removed from the NBA to command respect. umm
Theus is one of only seven players in NBA history to score at least 19,000 points and dish out 6,000 assists, joining John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler and Jerry West with that distinction. When Theus retired, he ranked 22nd on the NBA’s all-time scoring list with 19,105 career points and 11th on the all-time assists list with 6,453 career assists. Over his 13-year career, Theus averaged 18.5 points, 6.3 assists and 3.3 rebounds a game while being named to the 1981 and 1983 NBA All-Star teams.
ok so Reggie was not just a role or bench player in the NBA but a stud that was an allstar and is in the record books with those other big names. umm WOW i dont care what some of you think but trust me this will command respect! most of the players in the NBA could only dream of reaching this level in their careers. and trust me the players know this.
Another big thing to remember here is that Francisco Garcia played for Reggie. So its not like Pitino could talk him up and just say he was this great coach and we would have to take his word. Trust me if Reggie wasnt a good coach there Francisco Garcia would blow him up. So im sure Petrie did his homework, including talking to Garcia.
So one of our players (Garcia) has already bought into Reggie. Ron talked to Stein about it and praised this move. Why? cause players (even crazy ones) respect former great players. I know that Shaw has won rings and had a long career as a good player but he was a role player. Yes he will one day be a coach and players will respect what he did.
BUT i think one of the biggest things working against Shaw and ultimately led to us picking Reggie was that Shaw is so young. and not far removed from his playing days. I think a huge concern was if the players would think of him as more of a peer than the boss. And being in control and being the boss is key. just look at Muss and what happens when you lose control.
Reggie proved that he could lead a team from the ground up. he was one of the nations top 25 recruiters. So he could sell players on passing up better schools to play for him in freakn New Mexico. Part of Reggie's being is that "HE IS THE MAN" i dont think for a second with his personality that hes gonna allow anyone, even Ron to push him around and disrespect him. I think he would choke out a player before the player got to him.
He seems to be a coach that the players will be able to relate to. A PLAYERS COACH. he seems like he can laugh at himself and have fun. Unlike all business MUSS. He will be open to his players and talk with each one on a personal level. He already talked with Ron and Bibby the two most important people on this team right now. although that might change.
Look the point is, this isnt as much of a reach as people are making it out to be. yes hes got a long road and yes hes gonna have to prove that he can do it. but with what was out there for coaches i believe its a great hire.
Welcome Reggie ! LETS DO THIS !
i like this hire. we had our backs against the wall with nothing to lose. were not looking to contend here for at least 2 seasons minus a miracle with trades and drafting. Its obvious why we didnt want Brown. And i think that Petrie and the Maloofs worryed how the players would respond to Brooks being Muss's lead assistant, even if he did distance himself from Muss on some level.
It came down to Shaw vs Reggie. sure Shaw has more NBA coaching expierence(assistant coaching). But the jump from assistant to head coach is a monster jump. Even compaired to the jump from college head coaching to the pros. A couple of people are trying to say that Reggie is too far removed from the NBA to command respect. umm
Theus is one of only seven players in NBA history to score at least 19,000 points and dish out 6,000 assists, joining John Havlicek, Oscar Robertson, John Stockton, Gary Payton, Clyde Drexler and Jerry West with that distinction. When Theus retired, he ranked 22nd on the NBA’s all-time scoring list with 19,105 career points and 11th on the all-time assists list with 6,453 career assists. Over his 13-year career, Theus averaged 18.5 points, 6.3 assists and 3.3 rebounds a game while being named to the 1981 and 1983 NBA All-Star teams.
ok so Reggie was not just a role or bench player in the NBA but a stud that was an allstar and is in the record books with those other big names. umm WOW i dont care what some of you think but trust me this will command respect! most of the players in the NBA could only dream of reaching this level in their careers. and trust me the players know this.
Another big thing to remember here is that Francisco Garcia played for Reggie. So its not like Pitino could talk him up and just say he was this great coach and we would have to take his word. Trust me if Reggie wasnt a good coach there Francisco Garcia would blow him up. So im sure Petrie did his homework, including talking to Garcia.
So one of our players (Garcia) has already bought into Reggie. Ron talked to Stein about it and praised this move. Why? cause players (even crazy ones) respect former great players. I know that Shaw has won rings and had a long career as a good player but he was a role player. Yes he will one day be a coach and players will respect what he did.
BUT i think one of the biggest things working against Shaw and ultimately led to us picking Reggie was that Shaw is so young. and not far removed from his playing days. I think a huge concern was if the players would think of him as more of a peer than the boss. And being in control and being the boss is key. just look at Muss and what happens when you lose control.
Reggie proved that he could lead a team from the ground up. he was one of the nations top 25 recruiters. So he could sell players on passing up better schools to play for him in freakn New Mexico. Part of Reggie's being is that "HE IS THE MAN" i dont think for a second with his personality that hes gonna allow anyone, even Ron to push him around and disrespect him. I think he would choke out a player before the player got to him.
He seems to be a coach that the players will be able to relate to. A PLAYERS COACH. he seems like he can laugh at himself and have fun. Unlike all business MUSS. He will be open to his players and talk with each one on a personal level. He already talked with Ron and Bibby the two most important people on this team right now. although that might change.
Look the point is, this isnt as much of a reach as people are making it out to be. yes hes got a long road and yes hes gonna have to prove that he can do it. but with what was out there for coaches i believe its a great hire.
Welcome Reggie ! LETS DO THIS !
Last night I think I was watching News 10 and they had a mini-clip of someone interviewing Gavon Maloof and he was talking about how Rick Pitino and Jerry Tarkanian was so high on Reggie. All that I guess is fine and good but, what does Tarkanian and Pitino know about NBA coaches ? Were the Maloof's taking advice from these guys? It sure sounds like they were to me.
What has Tark and Pitino ever done in the NBA? They're NCAA coaches! What makes them so quailifed to advice someone on who would be a great NBA coach or not. Maybe Tark and Pitino can advice the Maloof's on who to pick with the 10th pick, Maybe Tark and Pitino can give Joe and Gavon some advice on Artest's trade value.
I feel sorry for GP in all this. I think we could have done better.
What has Tark and Pitino ever done in the NBA? They're NCAA coaches!
What makes them so quailifed to advice someone on who would be a great NBA coach or not. Maybe Tark and Pitino can advice the Maloof's on who to pick with the 10th pick, Maybe Tark and Pitino can give Joe and Gavon some advice on Artest's trade value.I feel sorry for GP in all this. I think we could have done better.
I agree with your post....Reggie is not the laconic detached borefest phoney that was constituted the emotional and mental make-up of our previous head coach...that's a plus before he draws any Xs or Os.
Reggie will make his share of rookie coaching mistakes, but he will be good for a sound bite or two, and let's face it...nothing is worse than uninspired, boring dreary basketball that marked the Eric Mussleman era.
Step 1: Hire coach (check)
Step 2: Trade everybody except Kevin Martin. ( ).
Reggie will make his share of rookie coaching mistakes, but he will be good for a sound bite or two, and let's face it...nothing is worse than uninspired, boring dreary basketball that marked the Eric Mussleman era.
Step 1: Hire coach (check)
Step 2: Trade everybody except Kevin Martin. ( ).