Draft Combine Results
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Not off hand, but this article/rant talks about that year, amongst others:
http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096
But Can He Play? Analyzing the NBA Pre-Draft Combine Results
by: Jonathan Givony - President
June 5, 2007
He has a 7-6 ¾ wingspan, and a 9-3 ½ standing reach. He jumps out of the gym with a 39 inch one-step vertical, bench presses 185 pounds 24 times and runs a 3.3 in the three quarter court sprint. But can he shoot? Dribble? Catch a rebound? Play? Do we even care?
It’s that time once again, our favorite time of the year of course; a few weeks before the draft when everything logical in regards to analyzing basketball gets flushed down the toilet. Instead we focus on superficial things that have proven again and again to have very little correlation with actual success in the NBA.
This player is superior to that player because his standing reach is two inches longer. That guy is a better prospect because he bench pressed 185 pounds 19 times instead of the 8 someone else did. Let’s just forget irrelevant things like how many points and rebounds a player averaged, what kind of drive he has to improve or how many games he helped his team win, because those obviously have no bearing on a player’s success.
Who was the top athlete in the 2003 draft? Thinking logically about that draft, you’d probably assume it was a toss up between Dwyane Wade and Lebron James. But in fact, it was 6-2 shooting guard Troy Bell, who did not make it past his rookie contract before being cut by the man who reached badly to draft him in Jerry West. Bell was affectionately nicknamed “Troy Airbell” by ACB Spanish league fans he horrified with the air-balls he jacked up playing for Real Madrid, and struggled this past season to run a D-League team. Bell measured a 41 inch vertical leap (which would rank 1st in this year’s combine), ran a 3.06 in the ¾ court sprint (also 1st), and bench pressed the 185 pound bar 17 times (fourth amongst guards). If Bell were eligible this year, he most likely again would be deemed the top athlete in this year’s draft too.
Who was (supposedly) the 2nd best athlete in that draft? Brandon Hunter, an eventual late 2nd round pick who was relegated to the 2nd division in Italy this year playing for Livorno. Dwyane Wade, possibly the best overall athlete in the NBA today, ranked 14th. Chris Bosh finished 51st. Chris Kaman 45th. In that same year, TJ Ford measured in as being slower in the various footspeed tests than Chris Kaman, Kirk Penney and Carmelo Anthony. Huh? Anyone that has ever seen him play would tell you that he is one of the fastest players in the NBA, if not the fastest.
In 2004, we found a similar story. Kirk Snyder came out as the top overall athlete, while players like Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Al Jefferson’s draft stock supposedly took a hit by measuring out as relatively poor athletes. That same Andre Iguodala who was robbed of the slam dunk championship a year ago, only recorded a 34 inch vertical leap, one inch more than J.J. Redick last year. Rickey Paulding, Timmy Bowers and Luis Flores were all declared amongst the top 10 athletes in the draft. One averaged 13 points per game this past season in France, one came off the bench in the Israeli league, and the other finished just a notch ahead of Brandon Hunter’s team in Italy and was also relegated to the 2nd division.
The 2005 draft combine was equally as pointless. Monta Ellis ranked as the worst athlete of all the players measured, coming out slow, weak and with very little leaping ability. Once the NBA season started and the ball actually rolled out on the court, though, he magically transformed into a spectacular athlete who can get his shot at will and dunks anything and everything that is remotely close to the basket, despite only being 6-3. Eventual rookie of the year Chris Paul was declared only the 15th best athlete amongst the players tested, and was somehow deemed slower than Deron Williams, Sean May and Wayne Simien. The athletic tests also led you to believe that Andrew Bogut was some kind of stiff who would never be able to keep up with the speed of the NBA--that is, until the players actually started playing basketball and we found out that he is actually a fine athlete for a player his size. Julius Hodge is out of the league thanks to a bad attitude, awful shooting mechanics and some very average athletic ability, but don’t tell that to the people who tested him out as the 26th best athlete in that draft, with a ¾ court sprint that would rank him amongst the fastest players in 2007.
In 2006, we again found some head-scratching results that made us question the validity of the NBA draft combine, and even make us wonder why exactly it’s even held. At the top of that list was Marcus Williams, who was, according to the combine results, probably one of the most unathletic guards to ever be considered a first round pick. We’re talking about a player that played in the best conference in America and got into the lane and created offense for his team almost whenever he pleased against the top defensive guards the NCAA has to offer, and then continued to do so in the NBA playing for the New Jersey Nets this season. All it took was five minutes watching him on tape or in person to realize that, but the results of the combine would never tell you that. The top ten athletes in the draft last year were, in this order: David Noel, Ronnie Brewer, Dwyane Mitchell, Daniel Horton, Rodney Carney, Randy Foye, Taquan Dean, Brandon Bowman, Nik Caner-Medley and Louis Amundson.
...
after that point it really digresses into how the holy Jonathon thinks he could do it better, so I just omitted that. He does mention though the highly questionable utility of a series of tests which rank perhaps the biggest star in the whole draft (Durant) as Homer Simpson in basketball shorts.
http://draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2096
But Can He Play? Analyzing the NBA Pre-Draft Combine Results
by: Jonathan Givony - President
June 5, 2007
He has a 7-6 ¾ wingspan, and a 9-3 ½ standing reach. He jumps out of the gym with a 39 inch one-step vertical, bench presses 185 pounds 24 times and runs a 3.3 in the three quarter court sprint. But can he shoot? Dribble? Catch a rebound? Play? Do we even care?
It’s that time once again, our favorite time of the year of course; a few weeks before the draft when everything logical in regards to analyzing basketball gets flushed down the toilet. Instead we focus on superficial things that have proven again and again to have very little correlation with actual success in the NBA.
This player is superior to that player because his standing reach is two inches longer. That guy is a better prospect because he bench pressed 185 pounds 19 times instead of the 8 someone else did. Let’s just forget irrelevant things like how many points and rebounds a player averaged, what kind of drive he has to improve or how many games he helped his team win, because those obviously have no bearing on a player’s success.
Who was the top athlete in the 2003 draft? Thinking logically about that draft, you’d probably assume it was a toss up between Dwyane Wade and Lebron James. But in fact, it was 6-2 shooting guard Troy Bell, who did not make it past his rookie contract before being cut by the man who reached badly to draft him in Jerry West. Bell was affectionately nicknamed “Troy Airbell” by ACB Spanish league fans he horrified with the air-balls he jacked up playing for Real Madrid, and struggled this past season to run a D-League team. Bell measured a 41 inch vertical leap (which would rank 1st in this year’s combine), ran a 3.06 in the ¾ court sprint (also 1st), and bench pressed the 185 pound bar 17 times (fourth amongst guards). If Bell were eligible this year, he most likely again would be deemed the top athlete in this year’s draft too.
Who was (supposedly) the 2nd best athlete in that draft? Brandon Hunter, an eventual late 2nd round pick who was relegated to the 2nd division in Italy this year playing for Livorno. Dwyane Wade, possibly the best overall athlete in the NBA today, ranked 14th. Chris Bosh finished 51st. Chris Kaman 45th. In that same year, TJ Ford measured in as being slower in the various footspeed tests than Chris Kaman, Kirk Penney and Carmelo Anthony. Huh? Anyone that has ever seen him play would tell you that he is one of the fastest players in the NBA, if not the fastest.
In 2004, we found a similar story. Kirk Snyder came out as the top overall athlete, while players like Andre Iguodala, Luol Deng and Al Jefferson’s draft stock supposedly took a hit by measuring out as relatively poor athletes. That same Andre Iguodala who was robbed of the slam dunk championship a year ago, only recorded a 34 inch vertical leap, one inch more than J.J. Redick last year. Rickey Paulding, Timmy Bowers and Luis Flores were all declared amongst the top 10 athletes in the draft. One averaged 13 points per game this past season in France, one came off the bench in the Israeli league, and the other finished just a notch ahead of Brandon Hunter’s team in Italy and was also relegated to the 2nd division.
The 2005 draft combine was equally as pointless. Monta Ellis ranked as the worst athlete of all the players measured, coming out slow, weak and with very little leaping ability. Once the NBA season started and the ball actually rolled out on the court, though, he magically transformed into a spectacular athlete who can get his shot at will and dunks anything and everything that is remotely close to the basket, despite only being 6-3. Eventual rookie of the year Chris Paul was declared only the 15th best athlete amongst the players tested, and was somehow deemed slower than Deron Williams, Sean May and Wayne Simien. The athletic tests also led you to believe that Andrew Bogut was some kind of stiff who would never be able to keep up with the speed of the NBA--that is, until the players actually started playing basketball and we found out that he is actually a fine athlete for a player his size. Julius Hodge is out of the league thanks to a bad attitude, awful shooting mechanics and some very average athletic ability, but don’t tell that to the people who tested him out as the 26th best athlete in that draft, with a ¾ court sprint that would rank him amongst the fastest players in 2007.
In 2006, we again found some head-scratching results that made us question the validity of the NBA draft combine, and even make us wonder why exactly it’s even held. At the top of that list was Marcus Williams, who was, according to the combine results, probably one of the most unathletic guards to ever be considered a first round pick. We’re talking about a player that played in the best conference in America and got into the lane and created offense for his team almost whenever he pleased against the top defensive guards the NCAA has to offer, and then continued to do so in the NBA playing for the New Jersey Nets this season. All it took was five minutes watching him on tape or in person to realize that, but the results of the combine would never tell you that. The top ten athletes in the draft last year were, in this order: David Noel, Ronnie Brewer, Dwyane Mitchell, Daniel Horton, Rodney Carney, Randy Foye, Taquan Dean, Brandon Bowman, Nik Caner-Medley and Louis Amundson.
...
after that point it really digresses into how the holy Jonathon thinks he could do it better, so I just omitted that. He does mention though the highly questionable utility of a series of tests which rank perhaps the biggest star in the whole draft (Durant) as Homer Simpson in basketball shorts.
DITTO. And my suspicion is the Petrie's drills are more sophisticated and accurate in determining quickness and athletic ability. Measuring quickness seems tricky to me though. You have to measure how fast a player can move in two to three steps. You have to be darn accurate with the stop watch to do that. Otherwise, it seems like you'd have to have some sophisticated gadgetry to determine in hundredths of seconds how fast he can move from one line to another, in say a five foot, or a 10 foot length.
Same thing with measuring jumping quickness. That's a VERY short time frame, making it even more difficult to measure.
Same thing with measuring jumping quickness. That's a VERY short time frame, making it even more difficult to measure.
here the list of the last 10 bigman drafted in the lottery since 2003 lets see how durant and olden stack up
.......................Htw/o.shoe....ht.w.shoe.....wt........wing............reach.......vert.....press......lane....3/4 spri
Chris Bosh.........6' 10.25".......6' 11.5".........225.......7' 3.5"..........9' 1"........33.......9..........11.80....3.30
Darko Milicic.......6' 11.5"........7' 0.75".........250.......7' 5".............9' 3.5"......32.5....13........11.30....3.36
Dwight How.......6' 9".............6' 10.25".......240.......7' 4.5"...........9' 3.5"......35.5.....7.........11.21
Emeka Okafor.....6' 8.75".........6' 10"...........257.......7' 4"..............9' 2.5"......34.......22.......12.32
Andrew Bogut.....6' 11"...........7' 0.25".........251.......7' 3"..............9' 2.5"......33.......13.......12.6......3.51
Channing Frye.....6' 9.5"..........6' 10.5".........244.......7' 2.5"...........9' 2.5".......31......19.......11.60.....3.38
LaMarcus Aldr.....6' 10"...........6' 11.25"........234.......7' 4.75".........9' 2"..........34.......8........12.2......3.43
Patrick O'Brya.....6' 11"...........7' 0" .............249.......7' 5.75".........9' 5"..........30......13........12.68....3.63
Greg Oden..........6' 11"...........7' 0"..............257.......7' 4.25".........9' 4"..........34......N/A.......11.67....3.27
Kevin Durant.......6' 9"............6' 10.25".........215.......7' 4.75".........9' 2"..........33.5...............12.33.....3.45
.......................Htw/o.shoe....ht.w.shoe.....wt........wing............reach.......vert.....press......lane....3/4 spri
Chris Bosh.........6' 10.25".......6' 11.5".........225.......7' 3.5"..........9' 1"........33.......9..........11.80....3.30
Darko Milicic.......6' 11.5"........7' 0.75".........250.......7' 5".............9' 3.5"......32.5....13........11.30....3.36
Dwight How.......6' 9".............6' 10.25".......240.......7' 4.5"...........9' 3.5"......35.5.....7.........11.21
Emeka Okafor.....6' 8.75".........6' 10"...........257.......7' 4"..............9' 2.5"......34.......22.......12.32
Andrew Bogut.....6' 11"...........7' 0.25".........251.......7' 3"..............9' 2.5"......33.......13.......12.6......3.51
Channing Frye.....6' 9.5"..........6' 10.5".........244.......7' 2.5"...........9' 2.5".......31......19.......11.60.....3.38
LaMarcus Aldr.....6' 10"...........6' 11.25"........234.......7' 4.75".........9' 2"..........34.......8........12.2......3.43
Patrick O'Brya.....6' 11"...........7' 0" .............249.......7' 5.75".........9' 5"..........30......13........12.68....3.63
Greg Oden..........6' 11"...........7' 0"..............257.......7' 4.25".........9' 4"..........34......N/A.......11.67....3.27
Kevin Durant.......6' 9"............6' 10.25".........215.......7' 4.75".........9' 2"..........33.5...............12.33.....3.45
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Thad Young is looking like a better and better pick now in my eyes. Especially with the combine results saying that he's a legit physical specimen. NBADraft.net has him ranked as the third most impressive athlete that was tested (http://www.nbadraft.net/duffy001.asp), and I agree; The dude is fast (Near top-level sprints and lane agility), Long (6'11 wingspan), strong (repped 185 pounds 13 times), and can jump (37 inch vertical). Looking at how thin he was in high school last year and how ripped he is now is incredible.
There are questions about his maturity, but he is reportedly a hard worker and has improved a lot. Another note is he had a disappointing freshman season, but then again, the GT coach sucks and can't use players to their strengths. The last knock on him is that he's one dimensional, but in his workout with the Hornets, he supposedly has a skillset that you can't tell from just mixtapes (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46425/20070608/youngs_workout_wows_hornets_brass/)
We could do a lot worse than Young, who has a massive potential.
There are questions about his maturity, but he is reportedly a hard worker and has improved a lot. Another note is he had a disappointing freshman season, but then again, the GT coach sucks and can't use players to their strengths. The last knock on him is that he's one dimensional, but in his workout with the Hornets, he supposedly has a skillset that you can't tell from just mixtapes (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/46425/20070608/youngs_workout_wows_hornets_brass/)
We could do a lot worse than Young, who has a massive potential.
I picked him as the potential steal of the draft. I really think he could develop into an excellent player and if we trade Artest, wouldn't it be nice to have a Martin/Young tandem for years to come?!
I am hoping that one of the bigs slides out way and we get him with out pick but I am also hoping that we can get a pick in the mid teens and pick Young as well. But then again if my choices are Julian Wright, Al Thornton or Jeff Green, I would pick Thaddeus Young.
I am hoping that one of the bigs slides out way and we get him with out pick but I am also hoping that we can get a pick in the mid teens and pick Young as well. But then again if my choices are Julian Wright, Al Thornton or Jeff Green, I would pick Thaddeus Young.
He is starting to get attention now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2898178
EDMOND, Okla. -- Watching tapes of NBA draft prospect Thaddeus Young, New Orleans Hornets coach Byron Scott didn't see much that caught his eye about the Georgia Tech forward's play.
In person, Young was able to sway Scott's opinion.
"I saw a bunch of tape on him this summer and watching the tape I wasn't impressed," Scott said Friday after watching Young and three other prospects work out. "But watching him out here in the individual workouts and the 2-on-2 and the 1-on-1 and things like that, he did a lot of things that I didn't see on the tape."
Scott said he had been disappointed that the three or four tapes he watched of Young didn't show the 6-foot-8 small forward's shooting ability and that the post-up moves primarily had him going up against smaller players. That left the coach without a positive opinion of Young, who's been projected as a possible selection for the Hornets at the 13th overall pick in the June 28 draft.
Scott has said the team is looking for a shooting guard or small forward to plug into the wing position opposite Peja Stojakovic in a starting lineup that features point guard Chris Paul, power forward David West and center Tyson Chandler.
Desmond Mason, who started at small forward last season, and Devin Brown, who moved into the shooting guard spot after Stojakovic was injured, are both free agents.
Scott isn't sure whether Young, who'll turn 19 this month, would be ready to make an immediate impact.
"The one thing that I do like about him and that I saw out there on the court is that he's a very fast learner. He has a great basketball IQ and has a good feel for the game," Scott said. "Can he accelerate the process as far as the learning curve is concerned? Probably so. It would probably just be a matter of time."
After being chosen as a McDonald's All-American out of high school, Young averaged 14.4 points and 4.9 rebounds as a freshman last season for the Yellow Jackets. He shot 48 percent from the field and 42 percent from 3-point range. After averaging three 3-point attempts per game last season, Young said he's been working to develop his stroke from the NBA's 3-point range.
"Obviously, I didn't shoot the ball very much in school, but I'm looking to show that right now that I can shoot the ball like the other guys," Young said.
Young said he still hasn't signed with an agent, leaving open the possibility he could return to school.
"If things hit the wall, it's a win-win situation. I could go back to school or I could stay in the draft. Either way it's good," Young said. "Right now, I'm just looking for some great information and a lot of great feedback. If I keep getting a lot of great feedback hopefully, I'll stay in."
Young said there were factors he'd have to weigh before making his final decision, but said, "Who wouldn't stay in [the draft] if they were a lottery pick?"
"Right now I think I should be a potential lottery pick, just me going out there working hard. Obviously there's a lot of other guys out there that's been working hard too, but some guys don't have what I have," Young said. "Not putting them down or anything, but just like I said, they work hard like I do."
Hornets general manager Jeff Bower said he thought Young would eventually "have a game that's effective both on the block and outside facing the basket" and that he had the quickness and balance to be a strong defender.
"The thing that was great is his personality and his makeup. Those are things that are going to make up for his inexperience," Bower said. "He's an extremely bright young man with a plan in place in his mind for improvement, and it includes a lot of hard work and it includes a lot of studying players that are currently in the league.
"I was impressed in speaking with him about the seriousness of his approach to this and his quest to learn more."
Young was born in New Orleans and said he has many relatives who had to leave the city because of Hurricane Katrina but returned "because of their love for the city."
Guards Marcus Williams from Arizona, Ron Lewis from Ohio State and Zabian Dowdell from Virginia Tech also worked out in the session.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2007/news/story?id=2898178
EDMOND, Okla. -- Watching tapes of NBA draft prospect Thaddeus Young, New Orleans Hornets coach Byron Scott didn't see much that caught his eye about the Georgia Tech forward's play.
In person, Young was able to sway Scott's opinion.
"I saw a bunch of tape on him this summer and watching the tape I wasn't impressed," Scott said Friday after watching Young and three other prospects work out. "But watching him out here in the individual workouts and the 2-on-2 and the 1-on-1 and things like that, he did a lot of things that I didn't see on the tape."
Scott said he had been disappointed that the three or four tapes he watched of Young didn't show the 6-foot-8 small forward's shooting ability and that the post-up moves primarily had him going up against smaller players. That left the coach without a positive opinion of Young, who's been projected as a possible selection for the Hornets at the 13th overall pick in the June 28 draft.
Scott has said the team is looking for a shooting guard or small forward to plug into the wing position opposite Peja Stojakovic in a starting lineup that features point guard Chris Paul, power forward David West and center Tyson Chandler.
Desmond Mason, who started at small forward last season, and Devin Brown, who moved into the shooting guard spot after Stojakovic was injured, are both free agents.
Scott isn't sure whether Young, who'll turn 19 this month, would be ready to make an immediate impact.
"The one thing that I do like about him and that I saw out there on the court is that he's a very fast learner. He has a great basketball IQ and has a good feel for the game," Scott said. "Can he accelerate the process as far as the learning curve is concerned? Probably so. It would probably just be a matter of time."
After being chosen as a McDonald's All-American out of high school, Young averaged 14.4 points and 4.9 rebounds as a freshman last season for the Yellow Jackets. He shot 48 percent from the field and 42 percent from 3-point range. After averaging three 3-point attempts per game last season, Young said he's been working to develop his stroke from the NBA's 3-point range.
"Obviously, I didn't shoot the ball very much in school, but I'm looking to show that right now that I can shoot the ball like the other guys," Young said.
Young said he still hasn't signed with an agent, leaving open the possibility he could return to school.
"If things hit the wall, it's a win-win situation. I could go back to school or I could stay in the draft. Either way it's good," Young said. "Right now, I'm just looking for some great information and a lot of great feedback. If I keep getting a lot of great feedback hopefully, I'll stay in."
Young said there were factors he'd have to weigh before making his final decision, but said, "Who wouldn't stay in [the draft] if they were a lottery pick?"
"Right now I think I should be a potential lottery pick, just me going out there working hard. Obviously there's a lot of other guys out there that's been working hard too, but some guys don't have what I have," Young said. "Not putting them down or anything, but just like I said, they work hard like I do."
Hornets general manager Jeff Bower said he thought Young would eventually "have a game that's effective both on the block and outside facing the basket" and that he had the quickness and balance to be a strong defender.
"The thing that was great is his personality and his makeup. Those are things that are going to make up for his inexperience," Bower said. "He's an extremely bright young man with a plan in place in his mind for improvement, and it includes a lot of hard work and it includes a lot of studying players that are currently in the league.
"I was impressed in speaking with him about the seriousness of his approach to this and his quest to learn more."
Young was born in New Orleans and said he has many relatives who had to leave the city because of Hurricane Katrina but returned "because of their love for the city."
Guards Marcus Williams from Arizona, Ron Lewis from Ohio State and Zabian Dowdell from Virginia Tech also worked out in the session.