Bibby wants to go to Houston?
- Thread starter Darren
- Start date
Hrm! That might work, but who in Houston do we want? I would take Mutumbo for a couple years to shore up some interior D until we can get a center from the draft. Battier isn't a guy I really would want on our team. We could play some small ball and have him at PF, but he is WAYYYYYYYYY BELOW avg in rebounding. Borderline crappy, and we have a good guy in Garcia ready to take the reigns. So it would have to be a 3 team deal..
Okay, I found the source of that rumor, and after 10 pages of talking , it appears that nobody but the original poster even heard it. So I have real doubts.
If it DID happen, it would be both a blessing and a curse. It would mean that Mike would opt out, theoretically giving us cap room. But also of course opening a huge hole in our lineup and threatening us with losing Mike for nothing. And since he would only be interested in going to the Rockets it would be hard to fashion an S&T not involving one of their poison pill contracts (Mike would presumably get signed and traded for a smaller deal than the one he opted out of, but still a significant one). I am assuming there that they would have no interest in moving Battier -- he is a player Rick will really like and the perfect roleplayer for them. So if you are avoiding the ugly Howard and Rafer deals, you are stuck trying to cobble together enough matching money out of the Sura ender, the #26 pick, and then various young guys who we don't really need -- Snyder, Head etc. Might be able to do it. But the bargaining power would belong to Houston if Mike was serious about taking the MLE if all else failed.
If it DID happen, it would be both a blessing and a curse. It would mean that Mike would opt out, theoretically giving us cap room. But also of course opening a huge hole in our lineup and threatening us with losing Mike for nothing. And since he would only be interested in going to the Rockets it would be hard to fashion an S&T not involving one of their poison pill contracts (Mike would presumably get signed and traded for a smaller deal than the one he opted out of, but still a significant one). I am assuming there that they would have no interest in moving Battier -- he is a player Rick will really like and the perfect roleplayer for them. So if you are avoiding the ugly Howard and Rafer deals, you are stuck trying to cobble together enough matching money out of the Sura ender, the #26 pick, and then various young guys who we don't really need -- Snyder, Head etc. Might be able to do it. But the bargaining power would belong to Houston if Mike was serious about taking the MLE if all else failed.
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wow if this was true let him walk ! i dont give a crap about losing him for nothing if it doesnt help what were trying to do here. plus if he wants out, peace out. i would rather have all this free cap room.....hold it for one more season and then use it to get a real FA in here. along wit another top 10 loto pick next year
This rumor doesn't make sense beyond wishful thinkings of a Rockets fan. A one year MLE deal? Then what? Another one? The Rockets find a way to move all their bad deals to another team for expirings and then re-up Bibby at market rate? He joins Latrell and Bonzi at the soup kitchens begging for scraps?
Why?
It's one thing to let a guy walk when you're over the cap, because you can't replace him. But if Bibby left the Kings would be roughly $12 million under the cap -- you could sign a player as good as Bibby and still have some money left over for someone else. Think of it as a trade for a Bibby-caliber player and then some icing on the cake, only unlike in a trade, you get to pick the icing. Maybe start Mo Williams off at $7-$8 million, or go after Darko or Gerald Wallace. I'd rather have those guys than Bibby at this point, and they'd make less money than him.
Bibby walking would be the best case scenario for this offseason.
It's one thing to let a guy walk when you're over the cap, because you can't replace him. But if Bibby left the Kings would be roughly $12 million under the cap -- you could sign a player as good as Bibby and still have some money left over for someone else. Think of it as a trade for a Bibby-caliber player and then some icing on the cake, only unlike in a trade, you get to pick the icing. Maybe start Mo Williams off at $7-$8 million, or go after Darko or Gerald Wallace. I'd rather have those guys than Bibby at this point, and they'd make less money than him.
Bibby walking would be the best case scenario for this offseason.
At one point it was the Kings decision, now it is his. Simply bleeding talent is just not good. Being under the cap is way overrated. For instance, how many of the elite teams were built on under the cap signings? Utah and umm...
Often times the teams who can spend money, and consequently are generally losers, have to overpay FAs to come to come to where they would rather not be. Sorry I'm not buying the, "if only we were under the cap, then we could rebuild".
Often times the teams who can spend money, and consequently are generally losers, have to overpay FAs to come to come to where they would rather not be. Sorry I'm not buying the, "if only we were under the cap, then we could rebuild".
Well, being under cap allowed Chicago to sign Ben Wallace. Being under the cap allowed that Suns to sign Nash and Q Richardson in one season and propelled them to a legitimate play-off team and subsequently a contender.
Having cap space also allowed us to sign Vlade Divac and complete a team that was a conteder for years to come. Not to mention the flexibility that cap space gives you in trades.
Having cap space also allowed us to sign Vlade Divac and complete a team that was a conteder for years to come. Not to mention the flexibility that cap space gives you in trades.
I agree that it makes no sense for Bibby to leave this year's money on the table and walk, but what if he is considering his future.
Say he stays with us this year. With his current image, it will be hard for him to get any generous contracts in the future. Maybe he sees Houston/Adelman as a chance to rehabilitate his image/statistics. If he goes back to the Bibby that we all know, he could set himself up for another big contract.
Say he stays with us this year. With his current image, it will be hard for him to get any generous contracts in the future. Maybe he sees Houston/Adelman as a chance to rehabilitate his image/statistics. If he goes back to the Bibby that we all know, he could set himself up for another big contract.
Yeah, that I think would be the rationale, althoguh obviously a gamble on his part.
As an aside, to the "let him walk for free" line of thought...I am not sure in the entire history of the Sacramento franchise that we have signed a single free agent as good as MIke Bibby. The only thing even close would be Vlade, and he was coming off a year where he was splitting time with Matt Geiger. If you lose him and get nothing back, then you are gambling on something happening that has never happened before, with an express elevator to hell as your punishment if you are wrong.
If this really were to happen, take the S&T as long as it does not involve Rafer and Juwan. Get Mike started on a long term deal that starts at $9mil a year and ends at $13 again when he's 34 or whatnot. Set him up with that last big contract. And then take back from the Rockets matching contracts = to 75% of that $9 mil (which is all you have to do) along with that #26 pick. All you have to do is reach $6.8mil and you are home. You get Sura's ender at $3.8, the #26 pick, and two of their young players (Head, Snyder, Spanoulis, Novak), who I think all have team options for next year (not sure if they have been exercised or not). Then you at least have something tangible, even if its not worth Mike Bibby. Maybe even swing a guy like Snyder off to a third team since we don't need him for an extra little piece or 2nd round pick. And then, you get the extra little pieces, an extra pick (or two), and still get the salary cap relief, half this summer (the difference between Mike's $13.5 and the propsed $9mil to start) and the rest next summer when all of the Houston pieces come off the books.
As an aside, to the "let him walk for free" line of thought...I am not sure in the entire history of the Sacramento franchise that we have signed a single free agent as good as MIke Bibby. The only thing even close would be Vlade, and he was coming off a year where he was splitting time with Matt Geiger. If you lose him and get nothing back, then you are gambling on something happening that has never happened before, with an express elevator to hell as your punishment if you are wrong.
If this really were to happen, take the S&T as long as it does not involve Rafer and Juwan. Get Mike started on a long term deal that starts at $9mil a year and ends at $13 again when he's 34 or whatnot. Set him up with that last big contract. And then take back from the Rockets matching contracts = to 75% of that $9 mil (which is all you have to do) along with that #26 pick. All you have to do is reach $6.8mil and you are home. You get Sura's ender at $3.8, the #26 pick, and two of their young players (Head, Snyder, Spanoulis, Novak), who I think all have team options for next year (not sure if they have been exercised or not). Then you at least have something tangible, even if its not worth Mike Bibby. Maybe even swing a guy like Snyder off to a third team since we don't need him for an extra little piece or 2nd round pick. And then, you get the extra little pieces, an extra pick (or two), and still get the salary cap relief, half this summer (the difference between Mike's $13.5 and the propsed $9mil to start) and the rest next summer when all of the Houston pieces come off the books.
I don't agree. I don't think this course of action leaves you with as good a selection of players as you'd get just by letting Bibby walk.
First off, I'd argue that Divac was more important a free agent signing than Bibby was as a tradee, and anyway, there's not much comparison because the Kings have only had cap room a few times in the franchise's history. Obviously the Suns are a case study in the way cap room can turn a franchise around.
But even aside from that, even if the Rockets were to go along with taking on Bibby at $9 million and only sending out $6.8, which leaves them pretty close to luxury tax land, doing this would only mean that the Kings would have about the MLE to spend this year in free agency. It leaves the Kings about $5-6 million under the cap. You're not going to get a very good free agent with that money.
And then, next year when Martin's extension kicks in, the Kings are already going to be around the cap, and when you add in all the little niggling contracts you're taking on from the Rockets you're not going to have more MLE type cap room next year either.
The only way the Kings are going to get an impact player or two is by letting Bibby walk, not through breaking up his contract in a S&T.
I'd much rather have, say, Mo Wililams and Amir Johnson than a late first rounder, a few spare parts and a couple of MLE types.
First off, I'd argue that Divac was more important a free agent signing than Bibby was as a tradee, and anyway, there's not much comparison because the Kings have only had cap room a few times in the franchise's history. Obviously the Suns are a case study in the way cap room can turn a franchise around.
But even aside from that, even if the Rockets were to go along with taking on Bibby at $9 million and only sending out $6.8, which leaves them pretty close to luxury tax land, doing this would only mean that the Kings would have about the MLE to spend this year in free agency. It leaves the Kings about $5-6 million under the cap. You're not going to get a very good free agent with that money.
And then, next year when Martin's extension kicks in, the Kings are already going to be around the cap, and when you add in all the little niggling contracts you're taking on from the Rockets you're not going to have more MLE type cap room next year either.
The only way the Kings are going to get an impact player or two is by letting Bibby walk, not through breaking up his contract in a S&T.
I'd much rather have, say, Mo Wililams and Amir Johnson than a late first rounder, a few spare parts and a couple of MLE types.
If I'm the Kings, don't even bother. All of our players had their options picked up. That means Snyder and Head for two more years plus the restricted free agent year.
Spanoulis has a three year guaranteed contract and Novak has the same (granted its tiny)
You only make this trade if you can maybe pry Shane Battier straight up for Bibby. He's at the very least, a useful player but he's not what the Kings really need since they're desperate for scoring. But at least he's a net positive with a decent contract.
Spanoulis has a three year guaranteed contract and Novak has the same (granted its tiny)
You only make this trade if you can maybe pry Shane Battier straight up for Bibby. He's at the very least, a useful player but he's not what the Kings really need since they're desperate for scoring. But at least he's a net positive with a decent contract.
I tend to agree with Brick although you made some good points nbrans. If I remember correctly we picked up a nice player at #26 in the 2004 draft. 
The point of doing what Brick said is to get some young talent in return. You can't complain too much about the contracts you will be getting back because we are still essentially waiting for the Kenny Thomas, Brad Miller, and SAR contracts to be up. Because lets face it, none of those guys are in my future picture. Maybe SAR off the bench.
Making a move like this would be beneficial for Bibby and it would help us to take that first official step towards rebuilding (if it isn't official already).
The point of doing what Brick said is to get some young talent in return. You can't complain too much about the contracts you will be getting back because we are still essentially waiting for the Kenny Thomas, Brad Miller, and SAR contracts to be up. Because lets face it, none of those guys are in my future picture. Maybe SAR off the bench.
Making a move like this would be beneficial for Bibby and it would help us to take that first official step towards rebuilding (if it isn't official already).