Barry Bonds thread (merged)

[BawLa]

I know there are millions of you Barry Bonds haters out there. But I must say none of you can deny what he is doing right now. The man will turn 43 in July, just came off two years of serious knee and elbow problems, through an overwhelming uproar of public and media hatred, and is now producing at the same rate as before the injuries.

I understand how he must have felt. Every douchebag no-name reporter asking him stupid accusation-leading questions every day while he couldn't physically go out and prove himself. And now, even older, he's just going about his business. And he doesn't even have protection. The walk ceremonies of recognizing true greatness will begin soon, I can feel it. But the problem for some managers this year is that we have such good starting pitching that teams could get burned by giving up that run or two.


The funny thing is that the media wants to turn their head and not acknowledge what he is doing. But by talking about it all the time and saying they don't want to acknowledge it is acknowledging it. If they really didn't want the steriod era to be so big then they shouldn't have empowered it.

And so now the pathetic media is turning all the attention to A-Rod, who they torture every year for not producing in the playoffs, and rightly so. But look at A-Rod, he's got all the protection in the world. And so when will the endless walk-ceremonies begin for him? Does MLB want managers to pitch to A-Rod so he can end the steriods era? Will that help them sleep at night?

The answers are no. Sorry MLB. There is nothing they can do, short of a conviction in the Superior Court, that can stop Barry from taking his rightful place at the pinnacle of success in baseball history. And love him or hate him, that is where he belongs.

As for A-Rod, he will never command the respect that Barry does or did. Barry has 13 years of drawing over 100 walks, including 3 over 150 and 1 over 200(232). Alex has one (100 exactly).

Barry has 3000 less at-bats and 1000 more walks than Hank Aaron. Over his entire career, Barry has hit a homer in just under 13 at-bats. That includes all the crappy years too. So if he had just 1000 more at-bats then that would make another 77 homers. 4000 more at-bats makes over 300 more homers. And that is a lowball number. I don't think the steriods he "allegedly" took accounted for 77 more homers let alone 300. Barry is just flat out better than Hammerin' Hank and belongs above him on the all-time homers list.

So what is the point of the media turning their heads on it now? To suggest that Barry doesn't deserve to be the home run leader? Well, he does.

Everyone makes mistakes in their lives. Even 'The Great Barry Bonds'. You don't have to respect his mistakes. You should respect him as the best player in the history of baseball.

 

[Bricklayer]

Bonds is irrelevant at this point, and it satisfies me immensely that that is exactly the way to hurt him most. He could hit 2000 homers and their would always be an invisible asterisk hovering next to his name. When he passes up Hank, there isn't going to be any fever sweeping the nation, and MLB is going to be hiding its head. The battle has already been lost for Bonds -- there is nothing he can do at this point to undo the damage to his legacy. He will hit however many, have whatever number, and it won't mean anything to anyone but he and his dwindling fanbase. And like Pete Rose before him, if things are ever proven, baseball could have the embarrassment of another of its all time stats leaders unofficially barred from the hall of fame.

Would have probably been better off trying to play the martyr card and going the way of the Barry Sanders/Karl Malone. Pulling up just short. But when you are egomanical to the 10th degree, that is impossible. So he's going to publicly humiliate the sport and league which gave him everthing for the sole contribution to society of being good at stickball. And of course once that's done, there's no getting off the hook. When the axe falls, the retribution will be swift and severe.

 

[slugking50]

Everbody should do what I do. Everytime Bonds is shown I turn the channel. Show your displeasure to one of the examples what wrong with baseball today.I want that scumbag gone!!! Pronto!!


As a Certified Barry Bonds Hater, I will not watch any game with Bonds nor will I watch a lowlight(SC or local segment) with him.


Cheaters should never win!

 

[nebs]

Cheaters should never win!

While he was taking roids or whatever, half the league, maybe more, was doing the same thing. I bet there are few of your favorites that have roided.

 

[SLAB]

While he was taking roids or whatever, half the league, maybe more, was doing the same thing. I bet there are few of your favorites that have roided.

But isn't it clear that Bonds was doing it more?

That Bonds was doing it better?

That Bonds...Forget that.

Bonds is the scapegoat of the whole situation...I love how people magically forget how people like Sean Green and Luis Gonzalez and other "Good people" magically started hitting more homers then return back to earth right as testing begins.

And don't get me started on the pitchers...The wonder boy Roger Clemens, Schilling, Gagne...Honestly, if you don't watch Barry Bonds wheneever he is up, you may as well throw a big "EFF YOU" middle finger to the MLB when you watch because I guarentee without a doubt, that there are/were multiple steroid users on each team.

 

[BawLa]

Taking a small amount of steriods, to barely enhance an already amazing baseball player, is not going to ruin his legacy. Why? Because he is STILL producing at a high rate at the age of 42. So how much did the steroids really help him? I mean so what, he got an extra 50 feet on some of his hits for a year or so. A 430 foot homer majestically became a 475 foot homer. Still a homer.

And if steroids made the player then why are managers and pitchers alike still having nightmares of a 42 year old man?


I find it funny when people say they won't watch even one segment of Bonds if he ever pops up on their tele but Giambi is cool right?..Because he admitted it? And all the other unknown users that haven't come clean? Please...

There is nothing irrelevant about the greatest player of all-time taking his place at the top off the home run list, invisible asterisk or not. And there is no way he gets denied from the hall of fame unless he is convicted of something.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Performance enhancers of one kind or another have always been in baseball, its a joke to scapegoat Bonds. He is convenient because he has always been a first class jerk to everybody, especially the press. But he's quite probably the best ball player I've seen in my lifetime.

 

[VF21]

Taking a small amount of steriods, to barely enhance an already amazing baseball player, is not going to ruin his legacy. Why? Because he is STILL producing at a high rate at the age of 42. So how much did the steroids really help him? I mean so what, he got an extra 50 feet on some of his hits for a year or so. A 430 foot homer majestically became a 475 foot homer. Still a homer.

And if steroids made the player then why are managers and pitchers alike still having nightmares of a 42 year old man?


I find it funny when people say they won't watch even one segment of Bonds if he ever pops up on their tele but Giambi is cool right?..Because he admitted it? And all the other unknown users that haven't come clean? Please...

There is nothing irrelevant about the greatest player of all-time taking his place at the top off the home run list, invisible asterisk or not. And there is no way he gets denied from the hall of fame unless he is convicted of something.

Why is it when someone makes a negative comment about Bonds so many of the Bonds apologists have to bring up someone else?

The conversation isn't about someone else. It's about Barry Bonds who is about to become the all-time leading home run hitter in the MLB. And he got there PARTIALLY by cheating. I don't care if everyone else cheated. I care that he's going to be in the record books after surpassing a couple of players who DIDN'T cheat to get their statistics.

If it doesn't bother you, fine. More power to you. There are even more people like myself and slugking50 and any number of others, however, who are not going to reward pompous jerks who flaunt their cheating in the faces of everyone else.

I was a baseball fan back when the Giants had Mays, McCovey, the Alou brothers, Jose Pagan and more. It's players like Bonds who drove me from the game I used to love to listen to with my dad. I have good memories of those times.

You can defend Barry Bonds all you like for as long as you like to whomever you like. That's your choice. But you're not going to get me to change mine.

What I find funny is the almost rabid defensive posture some fans take in his behalf. Believe me, Bonds would never do the same in return...

 

[VF21]

But isn't it clear that Bonds was doing it more?

That Bonds was doing it better?

That Bonds...Forget that.

Bonds is the scapegoat of the whole situation...I love how people magically forget how people like Sean Green and Luis Gonzalez and other "Good people" magically started hitting more homers then return back to earth right as testing begins.

And don't get me started on the pitchers...The wonder boy Roger Clemens, Schilling, Gagne...Honestly, if you don't watch Barry Bonds wheneever he is up, you may as well throw a big "EFF YOU" middle finger to the MLB when you watch because I guarentee without a doubt, that there are/were multiple steroid users on each team.

Then they should all be ashamed. And they shouldn't be allowed in the record books.

Barry Bonds has thrown his steroid use in the face of everyone, and because he's really good people are willing to overlook it? Bull****.

 

[nebs]

lol

 

[SLAB]

Explain to me how Barry has thrown his alleged steroid use in the face of people?

I really don't get the argument...Is it just because he's breaking the records? Because he's been able to be good for so long?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Explain to me how Barry has thrown his alleged steroid use in the face of people?

I don't get that either, he's never been caught and the only evidence comes from disreputable sources. Do I think he used the BALCO products, yes, I do. But what he did and their effect is very unclear to me. I also refuse to call it cheating since MLB had no steroid policy in effect and the steroid use appears to have been condoned by MLB which is why the US Congress was ready to step in.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

At this point, I'm sure that everyone had access to steroids or designer suppliments, and I'm sure that a few years back, ALOT of players were using, not just the few that were caught or admitted use, like Giambi. As far as Bonds goes, did/does he use steroids?? Like we'll ever know. I think that if these kinds of things were available back in the day, that alot of players back in the day would have been using, too...who knows, maybe even Hammerin' Hank himself would have at one point used, if they were available. It's all speculation, as far as I'm concerned, because we dont know the truth, except for the players like Giambi that have actually admitted using.

edit: oh, and you CAN get big in a hurry by keeping to a strict workout routine, and taking the suppliments that are available LEGALLY, too...so dont think that if a guy gets big that its automatically steroids.

 

[kennadog]

While he was taking roids or whatever, half the league, maybe more, was doing the same thing. I bet there are few of your favorites that have roided.

I use to love baseball....a very long time ago. I pay no attention to it anymore. Any players, any team. I could care less about the sport I once loved above all others.

 

[BawLa]

Why is it when someone makes a negative comment about Bonds so many of the Bonds apologists have to bring up someone else?

The conversation isn't about someone else. It's about Barry Bonds who is about to become the all-time leading home run hitter in the MLB. And he got there PARTIALLY by cheating. I don't care if everyone else cheated. I care that he's going to be in the record books after surpassing a couple of players who DIDN'T cheat to get their statistics.

If it doesn't bother you, fine. More power to you. There are even more people like myself and slugking50 and any number of others, however, who are not going to reward pompous jerks who flaunt their cheating in the faces of everyone else.

I was a baseball fan back when the Giants had Mays, McCovey, the Alou brothers, Jose Pagan and more. It's players like Bonds who drove me from the game I used to love to listen to with my dad. I have good memories of those times.

You can defend Barry Bonds all you like for as long as you like to whomever you like. That's your choice. But you're not going to get me to change mine.

What I find funny is the almost rabid defensive posture some fans take in his behalf. Believe me, Bonds would never do the same in return...

Well if you want to play that card then what does being a jerk have to do with steroids? What does being pompous have to do with being the best player in the history of baseball? Brining that up is no different than me bringing up Giambi.

I guess if he wasn't such a pompous jerk then the media wouldn't have hated him so much. And if they didn't hate him so much they might have gone eaiser on him through this whole thing.

It is not about my feelings on him taking steriods. I don't agree with what he did. But everyone makes mistakes. Was his mistake bigger than any other people in baseball? No. Was his mistake bigger than other people's outside of baseball? No. The fact is that I can recognize that he is a greater player than Hank Aaron with or without steroids.



"It just amazes me what he does at his age, the way he swings the bat, the way he's moving around. It just tells you how much better he is than the rest of us," manager Bruce Bochy said.

 

[BawLa]

On a side note: A lot of Bonds haters talk about his head growing huge. I see so many guys with huge heads in all sports. Look at how big Shaq was when he entered the league and look at how big he is now. Look at how much bigger his head has gotten. He is beloved by so many people yet he could be a bigger user than anyone we have heard of. After all, a steriod cannot be tested for until its exact chemical composition is known. And then again, a steriod just refers to any chemical which contains testosterone or mimics the properties of that hormone. Some dudes just have more testosterone produced naturally than others.

Anyway, just food for thought.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And then again, a steriod just refers to any chemical which contains testosterone or mimics the properties of that hormone.

That has always been my problem with this case. "The clear" and "the cream" have been deemed to be "steroids" but what was there purpose? Were they performance enhancers the same way that athletes in the past would shoot up to get huge, or were they recovery agents to prevent or speed the healing of injuries. Asthma inhalers contain steroids, some sports ban them others make allowances. On the other hand there are commonly accepted medical practices that are clearly performance enhancing - laser eye surgery that exceeds 20/20 vision for example. There have been documented cases of athletes with 20/20 having the surgery to go to 20/15. What is going to happen in the next 10-20 years when medical science advances to the point where repairing a blown knee or similar injury creates a knee better than the original? This stuff will happen eventually and the reality is that in just about any other sport nobody would care because people aren't obsessed with comparing eras the way they are with baseball.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

If people want to use the analogy that Bonds used steroids, therefor his records should have an asterisk...then that's going to be the case with a HELL of alot of other players, not just Bonds. I'm just saying, check the records, the players that have joined the 3000 hit club, 500 HR, 300 win, 300 save club in the last 10 years since the steroid boom started...the record books would be VERY empty because if we were to disqualify Bonds for that, then everyone else that uses(or is alleged to have used, like Barry) should be disqualified, too. How do you 'police' that sort of thing with the baseball record books? There's no way to determine who has/hasnt used, purely on speculation.

 

[VF21]

If people want to use the analogy that Bonds used steroids, therefor his records should have an asterisk...then that's going to be the case with a HELL of alot of other players, not just Bonds. I'm just saying, check the records, the players that have joined the 3000 hit club, 500 HR, 300 win, 300 save club in the last 10 years since the steroid boom started...the record books would be VERY empty because if we were to disqualify Bonds for that, then everyone else that uses(or is alleged to have used, like Barry) should be disqualified, too. How do you 'police' that sort of thing with the baseball record books? There's no way to determine who has/hasnt used, purely on speculation.

When it became obvious to everyone, even people who no longer follow baseball, that steroid use was rampant, something should have been done. It wasn't and there may or may not be any number of records that were achieved with the use of steroids. I'd actually be interested in seeing a list of records that might be "tainted." Regardless, if the record was achieved illegally, it shouldn't stand. Period. Multiple commissions of illegal acts doesn't make any of them less egregious. If they have to put a separate section in the record books - or the hall of fame - for players whose achievements may well have been possible through steroid use, then they should do so. Tell it like it really is. Own up to the obvious. Instead, they continue to use the "emperor's new clothes" approach.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Speaking of "illegal acts", google baseball and amphetamines. Perhaps all baseball stats should be reset as of 2005 when they were finally made illegal (even though they've been on the federally controlled substances list since the 70's)?

 

[VF21]

Speaking of "illegal acts", google baseball and amphetamines. Perhaps all baseball stats should be reset as of 2005 when they were finally made illegal (even though they've been on the federally controlled substances list since the 70's)?

Bait and switch again... If you'll welcome the addition of Barry Bonds into the Hall of Fame, that's your choice. I know I certainly won't because I choose not to honor someone who thought he was above the rules that applied to everyone else.

The Pete Rose thing, BTW, was entirely different IMHO. Rose never cheated to gain his stats. If he's not gonna make it to the hall of fame, Bonds shouldn't even be allowed in the parking lot.

But this is an issue that's not going to be solved here. I think my main objection is people who choose to defend him and his actions always feel they have to condemn those of us who aren't going to worship at his feet. Both sides have valid points. I quit watching baseball because I think it's become a big, big joke. It's only one step above WWE, which is at least honest about being entertainment and not pure sports.

The idea of players using different illegal drugs to enhance their performances shouldn't be okay, no matter how you try and diffuse the situation by bringing up other issues. And those drugs have been illegal for a long time. It shouldn't have to be okay just because the league hadn't specifically banned them yet.

 

[kupman]

I do not worship at the feet of Bonds....not even close. Basically, by all accounts he is not a very nice person and I am not a big fan of mean people. However, the evidence against him cheating with steroids is all circumstantial and I find the abuse he takes in the media and in the public to be, well - abusive.

 

[mcsluggo]

Jeez I hate the sanctimonious crap surrounding this whole thing.

Bonds probably took some substances. THey probably helped his game some. Others were taking the substances as well, including players he was playing against. Frankly, it was part of the game over that timeframe. Period. It was how the game was defined, and players played in those parameters.

Each frikin era has its own anomolies. The fields used to be shaped funny, with huge distant walls in some directions, and gimme homerun walls in others. Pichers were expected to pitch the whole frikin game everytime. (Tell me THAT didn't help pad the stats). Well times have changed and players all have to adapt to the scenario facing them WHEN THEY PLAY.

The fact of the matter is that the league AND THE DAMN FANS were easy on players using enhancers for most of the 90's. Neither cared enough to do what was needed to give any chance that the game would be "clean". Everyone knew it was there (yes EVERYONE), but it was basically "don't ask, don't tell". That was the scenario facing the players, and they behaved rationally and took what was offered. To get retroactively shocked and appalled is absolute and total BS, especially by the league officials.

Frankly, I never liked baseball much. And Barry Bonds never seemed like " a nice young man" that I felt like rooting for.... however all this bs stink makes me WANT to root for him. (I guess I am too much of a contrarian)


Go Barry Go! Whiipppppeeeee

 

[SLAB]

I have a question, VF...

If baseball is a complete joke because of steroids, what about the NFL? Or cycling?

There have been plenty of roider's in the NFL...Is there the blind shoulder to steroids only because the users don't turn into all-time greats? It seems like a double standard to me.

And the whole cycling thing thats going on with Landis, who is still having all his tests come back positive...Forgive me if I'm confusing you with someone else, VF, but I think I remember you really into the Tour De France and Landis last year...And I have no clue what your stand on cycling is after all this stuff...I'm just throwing out an argument of sorts...

 

[BawLa]

04/24/2007 11:24 PM ET
Notes: Bonds is pulling for A-Rod
Giants slugger hoping for Yankee to break homer mark
By Chris Haft / MLB.com


LOS ANGELES -- As Alex Rodriguez's home run total increases, so will the volume of Barry Bonds' cheering.

The Giants left fielder is rooting hard for Rodriguez's success, so much so that he hopes the New York Yankees third baseman breaks his single-season home run record. Bonds set the standard with 73 in 2001; Rodriguez already has 14 in 19 games.

"I'm so happy for him. He's phenomenal to watch. I hope you guys enjoy it, too," Bonds told a thicket of reporters Monday as he staged his usual pre-series news conference. "I hope he hits 100, I really do."

Bonds reaffirmed his sentiments when a surprised reporter asked Bonds if he genuinely felt this way. "I would be ecstatic. It wouldn't bother me one bit" to see Rodriguez eclipse him, he said.

"That's what the game's about -- excitement, bringing people to the stadium. Go on, A-Rod, do your thing. I don't care what anybody says. Keep that look in your eye, because it's solid."

In the midst of his own hot hitting -- he homered in San Francisco's previous two games and was batting .429 in his last nine games entering Tuesday -- Bonds recognized the groove that Rodriguez has been in. "I can see it on TV. I see it in his face," said Bonds, who began Monday needing 16 home runs to break Hank Aaron's all-time mark of 755. "You can see that his eyes are different, the way he is is different."

 

[pdxKingsFan]

A-Rod is perhaps the one player in MLB that can make Bonds look like a swell guy.

Well on second thought maybe Rocket Rog as well.

 

[slugking50]

On a side note: A lot of Bonds haters talk about his head growing huge. I see so many guys with huge heads in all sports. Look at how big Shaq was when he entered the league and look at how big he is now. Look at how much bigger his head has gotten. He is beloved by so many people yet he could be a bigger user than anyone we have heard of. After all, a steriod cannot be tested for until its exact chemical composition is known. And then again, a steriod just refers to any chemical which contains testosterone or mimics the properties of that hormone. Some dudes just have more testosterone produced naturally than others.

Anyway, just food for thought.

Growing head and feet size is a tell tale sign of HGH and riod (Most use a combo of the 2)use. The guys feet and neck have almost doubled in size. Explain that! Magic? He just works out 24/7?

While he was taking roids or whatever, half the league, maybe more, was doing the same thing. I bet there are few of your favorites that have roided.

All my fav players are retired. Chili Davis, Robby Thompson, and Will Clark.

Just as many pitchers are on the juice as batters. Cleamons, Glavine, Smoltz, Nenn and Kerry Wood come to mind. Everytime a pitcher gets a shoulder or elbow injury, The chances are pretty likely its riods related.

 

[slugking50]

A-Rod is perhaps the one player in MLB that can make Bonds look like a swell guy.

Well on second thought maybe Rocket Rog as well.

Did I somehow miss the memo where AROD is a bad guy? I mean hes a putz who makes dumb mistakes but Cleamons and Bonds category?!?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Did I somehow miss the memo where AROD is a bad guy? I mean hes a putz who makes dumb mistakes but Cleamons and Bonds category?!?

Ok... I'm a Sox fan, but the dude's always struck me as a jerk before he went to the Yankees. I did not want him on the team when the Sox were pursuing him, he's a cancer and as soon as the Yankees acquired him they have been cursed.

Plus he's been known for his share of poor sport maneuvers, like slapping the ball out of Arroyo's hand in the ALCS.

 

[nebs]

All my fav players are retired. Chili Davis, Robby Thompson, and Will Clark.

That's my favorite group of guys as well. Before the Candlestick outfield fence was a padded wall, and chain-link. Before bleachers. Before Bonds.

I suppose you tuned out sometime before the outfield bleachers were being installed.

Enjoy the NBA.