Any moves before the trade deadline?

F

fnordius

All-Star
#61
#61
If you don't care about the cost, just look at PER and minutes. I can guarantee you that GP and the Maloofs are looking at all three.

This stat accurately reflects the fact that rookie contracts are dirt cheap, regardless of what the rookie gives to the franchise. But Kevin's PER is higher than anyone else's on the team, and his minutes are within 1 minute per game of the #1 slot. Those things combine to make him a tremendous steal at $1M a year.

Sure, he won't be when his rookie contract is up, but if you don't get everything you can out of rookie contracts, you're... Isiah Thomas (OK, not even Isiah, he has David Lee). Look at any team that is improving while maintaining a moderate payroll budget. You'll find one or more really good players on rookie contracts. The Suns have Diaw and Barbosa, Utah has Williams. Even big-budget Dallas has Josh Howard for the same pay as we give Hart. Who trades away good rookies? Atlanta.

I'm not intending to personally champion the position that he must never be traded, I'm just pointing out that management is not going to let him go any time soon. We may talk about such things -- would I trade KT and KMart for Lebron and Varejao? Of course! But it's just not done, those trades almost never happen in the real world. And if someone wants another argument in favor of getting guys through the draft, there it is. They're a bargain.
 
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Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#62
#62
Roman said:
There isn't one player on this team above moving.

I keep reading don't trade this guy or that guy. I'd move every player on this roster - including Martin - should the right deals exist.

Martin is a good player, but he's not anyone I'd build around, which means, to me, he's completely expendible for the future of the team. He's a terrible, and I mean, terrible defender ... and that about sums up why he'd be on the list of tradeables. I mean, I wouldn't move Martin for Posey or some nonsense, but the right situation, the right draft pick, yeah ... he'd be moved.
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I've seen Martin take more charges this year than any other King's player in the last 3 years. If he's "terrible", I wonder what Bibby and Miller are?:rolleyes:
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#63
#63
fnordius said:
Thanks! :eek:

I'm hoping that when Bricklayer becomes GM, he'll consider me for team numbercruncher.
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One problem: I consider PER to be John Hollinger's made up horse manure, and if you ever quoted one to me you would be instantly fired. :p


In any case, the overall point is an obvious one -- young players on rookie contracts are ALWAYS going to have the most "efficient" per $ production until it comes time to pay them the real money. So if you're getting 20ppg out of Kevin at those rates, if you trade him it better be for either another young player, or as part of a package for a true impact superstar type. Furthermore, if you are truly rebuilding, moving Kevin makes little sense at all basically unless you are tradign him for a better young player, and who exactly is going to trade you Bosh or Howard for Kevin? Throw in the traditional overvaluation that teams have a tendency to do with young guys they drafted -- see Celtics, Boston -- and its hard to see him going anywhere. He SHOULD be on the table for the right deal, but the right deal is going to be a pretty small subset. I will say this, if Kevin were traded I might be pretty excited...simply because by all rights the only way that would happen is if we were getting back a superstar type player.
 
kromeace

kromeace

Prospect
#64
#64
Trade Kmart?? CRIPES! If the Kings do that as he keeps improving I am looking for a new team to cheer. Kmart has improved by leaps and bounds each year... just a 3rd year player who is not a ball hog, plays within the flow, good shot selection, and has a bright future.

Trading your best scorer who is on the rise does not make sense, unless you get a crazy no-brainer package for him... which we won't. As soon as any GM hears... "I have Jeff Petrie on the phone for you"... they lock up all thier talent and tell the secratary to "Take a message"...:p
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#65
#65
kromeace said:
Trading your best scorer who is on the rise does not make sense, unless you get a crazy no-brainer package for him... which we won't.
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That's the caveat. I want Martin here, but if we got a crazy good offer, you'd have to consider it. I also agree that its not likely to happen. I'm more concerned that we offer Kevin an extension this summer and hope he takes it.
 
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Circa_1985_Fan

Circa_1985_Fan

All-Star
#66
#66
kennadog said:
That's the caveat. I want Martin here, but if got a crazy good offer, you'd have to consider it. I also agree that its not likely to happen. I'm more concerned that we offer Kevin an extension this summer and hope he takes it.
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Agreed. And I dont think an extension will be offered until after next year, since we have him under contract for sure for at least one more season after this. There's probably too much re-tooling and directional issues with the team that the Maloofs and Petrie have to worry about for the immediate, at least. Oh yeah, and that 'arena' thing, too.:D
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#67
#67
Bricklayer said:
One problem: I consider PER to be John Hollinger's made up horse manure, and if you ever quoted one to me you would be instantly fired. :p
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I don't think PER's what it's cracked up to be, either, and usually do my own calculations using different stats. This has two disadvantages, however:

(1) The amount of calculation involved becomes much larger

(2) People say "WTF stat is that? Something you just made up?!?"

I think a Roland Rating is usually somewhat better, since it takes more factors into account (like defence, to pick one obvious example), although it may be skewed by team composition, conference strength, and other factors. An adjusted plus-minus of some sort (like Winston and Sagarin's Winval, or one of its tweaks) is better still, but few people have even heard of those yet. And they are a royal PITA to calculate, so it's a fairly nippy day in hell when you'll find a website posting them.

But we can go over all this in more detail when you're GM. ;)
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#68
#68
Circa_1985_Fan said:
Agreed. And I dont think an extension will be offered until after next year, since we have him under contract for sure for at least one more season after this. There's probably too much re-tooling and directional issues with the team that the Maloofs and Petrie have to worry about for the immediate, at least. Oh yeah, and that 'arena' thing, too.:D
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But Kevin's a free-agent after next season correct? Then he'll really be in the driver's seat. No I'd like the Kings to offer an extension this summer.
 
DocHolliday

DocHolliday

Starter
#69
#69
kennadog said:
But Kevin's a free-agent after next season correct? Then he'll really be in the driver's seat. No I'd like the Kings to offer an extension this summer.
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I seem to remember that the Kings picked up the options on Francisco and Martin last offseason for 3 more years. So, Martin will be a bargain for a couple years if I remember correctly.
 
Z

ZanesvilleFan

G-League
#70
#70
kromeace said:
Trade Kmart?? CRIPES! If the Kings do that as he keeps improving I am looking for a new team to cheer. Kmart has improved by leaps and bounds each year... just a 3rd year player who is not a ball hog, plays within the flow, good shot selection, and has a bright future.

Trading your best scorer who is on the rise does not make sense, unless you get a crazy no-brainer package for him... which we won't. As soon as any GM hears... "I have Jeff Petrie on the phone for you"... they lock up all thier talent and tell the secratary to "Take a message"...:p
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I 100% agree...Even though I would like to see him over here on the east coast.
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#71
#71
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#72
#72
DocHolliday said:
I seem to remember that the Kings picked up the options on Francisco and Martin last offseason for 3 more years. So, Martin will be a bargain for a couple years if I remember correctly.
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Pretty sure both of them are up over next summer.

Kevin came in in the era of the 4 yr rookie contract -- his was the last draft class before the new CBA. This is year 3. Next year will be Yr 4, the final one under his deal. Then he will be a restricted FA next summer. Worst case if it all goes wrong and we can't find a mutual $$ figure, he could reisgn with us for the qualifying offer amount for 1 yr, and then be unrestricted after that (2 years from now). Best case, we find a mutual number, and next year is his last year as a bargain.

Cisco came into the league the year after Kevin, but his was the first class with the new CBA, and under the new CBA rookie contracts are only 3 years. Thsi is Cisco's yr 2, so next yr is his last too.
 
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