Who thinks we should keep losing and go for a high draft pick?? I am loving this incoming draft class of Greg Oden, Durant, Noah, Horford, Hansborough, Alando Tucker, and Aaron Gray among many others. I really hope we can do some trades to go for youth and maybe a couple extra draft picks. Instead of trading for a big I say we draft a couple bigs and let them mature in the Kings system. I don't know how other Kings fans will respond but I say if we keep playing this way lets at least get some good young talent from it!!!
2007 Draft
- Thread starter no1kingsfan
- Start date
I hear many people talking like this, but I think that it is wishful thinking.
Building a good-great team through the draft is very, very difficult. There are so many uncertainties with young players that I am not sure that, say, the 4th over-all pick is really much that better than say the 20th pick.
I also hear the same names you listed often, but obviously they probably are not all going to be stars. Even if most will eventually become stars (for the sake of argument) they usually do not become really valuable until their mid-twenties which can be 5-6 years after they are drafted and have expiring contracts.
Of course, if we continue to lose and end-up in the lottery we will do our best with the opportunity. But to actually consider losing as a method for building a new , great team for the future is to enter the warped mind-set of the Clippers.
Building a good-great team through the draft is very, very difficult. There are so many uncertainties with young players that I am not sure that, say, the 4th over-all pick is really much that better than say the 20th pick.
I also hear the same names you listed often, but obviously they probably are not all going to be stars. Even if most will eventually become stars (for the sake of argument) they usually do not become really valuable until their mid-twenties which can be 5-6 years after they are drafted and have expiring contracts.
Of course, if we continue to lose and end-up in the lottery we will do our best with the opportunity. But to actually consider losing as a method for building a new , great team for the future is to enter the warped mind-set of the Clippers.
From the NBA champions recently, from Bird with the Celtics, Magic with the Lakers, MJ with the Bulls to Duncan with the Spurs. They all got their championship(s) mostly benefit from their top 5 drafts.
They were all built their teams around their drafts. The only exception recently was Shaq and the Lakers, but they weren't great before Kobe came along either.
Edit: You're right that theres risk on relying on a rookie. (Pervis Ellison, Joe Smith, among the list of possible worst 1st pick of 'em all) But I think it's the best way to rebuild successfully. It's a risk we gotta take.
They were all built their teams around their drafts. The only exception recently was Shaq and the Lakers, but they weren't great before Kobe came along either.
Edit: You're right that theres risk on relying on a rookie. (Pervis Ellison, Joe Smith, among the list of possible worst 1st pick of 'em all) But I think it's the best way to rebuild successfully. It's a risk we gotta take.
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We definitely want to get into the area of Oden (at least have a shot to get lucky in the lottery), Durant, Hawes, Wright, Horford, and Noah (not that big on him, but he's got good potential). Hasheem Thabeet and Darrell Arthur are a couple really good bigs that might declare for this draft, but it's not real likely. Those are where the top bigs are.
Horford would be a good realistic pickup for us. I think he could have elton brand potential.
If we get a second pick in the mid to late first round i like Jason Smith, Tiago Splitter, Mbah a Moute, and Alexis Ajinca.
Horford would be a good realistic pickup for us. I think he could have elton brand potential.
If we get a second pick in the mid to late first round i like Jason Smith, Tiago Splitter, Mbah a Moute, and Alexis Ajinca.
Or, as I have repeatedly demonstrated, the midset which built virtually every good/great team in the NBA right now. Duncan, Lebron, Melo, Wade, Dirk, Amare, Yao, Howard, etc. etc....these guys did not get signed as free agents.
Get bad to get good. And in THIS draft. If this happens last year, the prospects are a lot shakier. Maybe last year you figure the difference between #1 and #10 isn't that great. No sure fire stars. Few bigs. But THIS draft...its like the LeBron draft. You've got a clear/obvious #1 that everybody drools over, and on top of that, a whole bundle of potentially great consolation prizes. Its not jsut the startegy whihc has spawned nearly every great team, its the perfect draft to execute said strategy. In many ways our timing in getting crappy could not be better.
Get bad to get good. And in THIS draft. If this happens last year, the prospects are a lot shakier. Maybe last year you figure the difference between #1 and #10 isn't that great. No sure fire stars. Few bigs. But THIS draft...its like the LeBron draft. You've got a clear/obvious #1 that everybody drools over, and on top of that, a whole bundle of potentially great consolation prizes. Its not jsut the startegy whihc has spawned nearly every great team, its the perfect draft to execute said strategy. In many ways our timing in getting crappy could not be better.
I definitely agree. I'm not much of a fan of rebuilding solely through the draft, but the Kings have a pretty interesting confluence of having quite a bit of talent already on the roster, the possibility of cap space in the offseason, and despite the talent on the roster we totally suck. And it's the best draft in years. This season is really a once in a decade opportunity for some very positive change with just a few trades, a young free agent and a good high draft pick.
NBAdraft.net's latest update (Jan. 15): http://nbadraft.net/
I'm really high on Brandan Wright at the moment. Right now, Boston has the 3rd worst record and has the odds to draft 3rd. Think they'd trade that pick along with West and Ratliff for Bibby and change? They do already have a ton of young talent, while Pierce isn't getting any younger.
Of course, we could continue to lose without trading anyone, as nbrans has pointed out. But the risk there is, of course, by the time Wright (or whatever young stud you get) is reaching dominant level, Bibby, Miller, etc are way past their prime.
I'm really high on Brandan Wright at the moment. Right now, Boston has the 3rd worst record and has the odds to draft 3rd. Think they'd trade that pick along with West and Ratliff for Bibby and change? They do already have a ton of young talent, while Pierce isn't getting any younger.
Of course, we could continue to lose without trading anyone, as nbrans has pointed out. But the risk there is, of course, by the time Wright (or whatever young stud you get) is reaching dominant level, Bibby, Miller, etc are way past their prime.
They're comparing him to Pau Gasol, btw...
http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/yijianlian.html
Yi Jianlian
China
Birthday:
10/27/1987
NBA Postion:
Power Forward
Class:
N/A
Ht:
7-0
Wt:
230
Int Team:
Guangdong Tigers
Hometown:
Shenzhen, China
High School:
Shen Zhen City
NBA Comparison: Pau Gasol
Strengths: Good ball handler who has no problem taking opposing defenders off the dribble … Great finisher around the basket as he is capable of making some impressive dunks on the break … Fundamentally sound player with a decent basketball IQ and court awareness … Rarely does Jianlian force the issue, instead he let’s the game come to him … Unlike many players his size, he is a great free throw shooter …Runs the floor especially well considering his size ... His perimeter shooting is very impressive as he can stretch the defense out to 18-20 feet comfortably … While he doesn’t own many back to the basket moves, Jianlian possesses a consistent turnaround jumper in the post … Does a great job of using his long body and athleticism to make an impact on the boards … Passes out of double teams well due to his court vision and awareness … Excels in an open court offense that promotes fast breaks thanks to his mobility and leaping ability … Rarely gets intimidated when physical play occurs … Although he has been on the NBA draft radar for quite some time, and may be a few years older than his listed age, he appears to still have considerable upside … Defensively he is a solid help defender due to his lateral quickness and wingspan … Possesses quick hands that can disrupt passing lanes …
Weaknesses: There is some concern as to what position he will play in the NBA: He lacks the upper body strength and the back to the basket moves at power forward and is a bit long and rangy for the three … Needs to improve his three point shooting to play minutes to be effective at SF … Despite his vast improvement, Jianlian needs to continue to develop his upper body strength … At this point of his career, he’s more comfortable facing the basket than with his back to the basket … Although he doesn’t shy away from physical contact he can get disrupted with rough post play … Struggles to maintain his position in the low post as opposing defenders tend to push him out … Defensively he will not be the huge shot blocking presence that he is in the China, due to his timing and the speed of the NBA game … Has a habit of putting the ball on the floor to achieve rhythm instead of keeping the ball high away from opposing guards …. Confidence can wavier in games when he’s struggling to score … Although listed as being born in 1987 many within China place him between 1985-1986 … Doesn’t always play defensive with great intensity, he won’t be able to get away with it in the NBA …
Matthew Maurer - 12/4/2006
Strengths: The next big prospect from China after Yao Ming ... A 7 footer with the agility and coordination of a much smaller player, plus explosiveness rarely found in Asian players ... Has an American style of game, very quick and athletic ... Loves the transition game and gets a lot of highlight dunks ... In the CBA, Yi has made a solid transition from prospect to star player becoming the MVP of his CBA champion Guangdong Tigers team ... Smart player, makes good decisions showing improvement on the offensive end of the floor ... Can face the basket from 12-15 feet and get by bigger players off the dribble as well as knock down shots out to 18 feet with consistency ... Has good shooting mechanics and overall fundamentals ... Seems to have modeled his fadeaway jumpshot after Dirk Nowitzki, and though it's not as accurate, it is extremely tough to defend ... Has good touch around the basket and shows good creativity on the drive ... Plays with solid aggressiveness, competitive player with a high level of energy and intensity ... Grabs rebounds well using his leaping ability ... Solid defensively as a shot blocker, with good timing and possesses good lateral quickness ... Has a fiery side(unlike Yao), if he gets elbowed he will get payback. But by no means is he a hothead or looking for trouble, he's just a competitior ...
Weaknesses: He's a tweener, but a "good tweener" ... Doesn't fit a position perfectly as he's more of a finesse player and too big to play the 3 position, but his combination of size and versatility makes him a very intriguing ... At times can be too laid back on the floor, so raising his intensity level is important ... Has good shooting mechanics but has a slow release... Could become a good shooter but probably never a great shooter ... His hands are a little weak, making it easier for opponents to poke the ball away (Yao Ming has the same problem) ... Needs to continue to gain upper body and arm strength, without losing any quickness ... If he adds additional strength, he will be able to fight for rebounds better ...He has no problems now, but it will be an adjustment to the speed and strength of the NBA ... Also like Yao the adjustment to a much longer season will take time ... The general consensus in China is that he is actually born in 1984 or 1985, meaning he wouldn't enter the NBA until he's actually 25 years of age if he stays in China until his 1987 draft year ... His game has matured to where he needs better competition to push him. He is a superior athlete in China, and lacks a great competition level, so his game is deteriorating to an extent staying in China in such crucial development years ...
Notes: Averaged: 20.5 PPG, 57.41 FG %, 75.08 FT%, 9.6 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.2 APG, 2.0 SPG in the 2005-06 season. Flirted with the idea of declaring for the NBA draft, but chose to stay with his Guangdong Tigers team and Chinese Olympic team. Has proven himself against American players in junior competitions (playing well at the ABCD camp in New Jersey) ... Did not perform well at the 2005 Hoops Summit game ...
http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/yijianlian.html
Yi Jianlian
China
Birthday:
10/27/1987
NBA Postion:
Power Forward
Class:
N/A
Ht:
7-0
Wt:
230
Int Team:
Guangdong Tigers
Hometown:
Shenzhen, China
High School:
Shen Zhen City
NBA Comparison: Pau Gasol
Strengths: Good ball handler who has no problem taking opposing defenders off the dribble … Great finisher around the basket as he is capable of making some impressive dunks on the break … Fundamentally sound player with a decent basketball IQ and court awareness … Rarely does Jianlian force the issue, instead he let’s the game come to him … Unlike many players his size, he is a great free throw shooter …Runs the floor especially well considering his size ... His perimeter shooting is very impressive as he can stretch the defense out to 18-20 feet comfortably … While he doesn’t own many back to the basket moves, Jianlian possesses a consistent turnaround jumper in the post … Does a great job of using his long body and athleticism to make an impact on the boards … Passes out of double teams well due to his court vision and awareness … Excels in an open court offense that promotes fast breaks thanks to his mobility and leaping ability … Rarely gets intimidated when physical play occurs … Although he has been on the NBA draft radar for quite some time, and may be a few years older than his listed age, he appears to still have considerable upside … Defensively he is a solid help defender due to his lateral quickness and wingspan … Possesses quick hands that can disrupt passing lanes …
Weaknesses: There is some concern as to what position he will play in the NBA: He lacks the upper body strength and the back to the basket moves at power forward and is a bit long and rangy for the three … Needs to improve his three point shooting to play minutes to be effective at SF … Despite his vast improvement, Jianlian needs to continue to develop his upper body strength … At this point of his career, he’s more comfortable facing the basket than with his back to the basket … Although he doesn’t shy away from physical contact he can get disrupted with rough post play … Struggles to maintain his position in the low post as opposing defenders tend to push him out … Defensively he will not be the huge shot blocking presence that he is in the China, due to his timing and the speed of the NBA game … Has a habit of putting the ball on the floor to achieve rhythm instead of keeping the ball high away from opposing guards …. Confidence can wavier in games when he’s struggling to score … Although listed as being born in 1987 many within China place him between 1985-1986 … Doesn’t always play defensive with great intensity, he won’t be able to get away with it in the NBA …
Matthew Maurer - 12/4/2006
Strengths: The next big prospect from China after Yao Ming ... A 7 footer with the agility and coordination of a much smaller player, plus explosiveness rarely found in Asian players ... Has an American style of game, very quick and athletic ... Loves the transition game and gets a lot of highlight dunks ... In the CBA, Yi has made a solid transition from prospect to star player becoming the MVP of his CBA champion Guangdong Tigers team ... Smart player, makes good decisions showing improvement on the offensive end of the floor ... Can face the basket from 12-15 feet and get by bigger players off the dribble as well as knock down shots out to 18 feet with consistency ... Has good shooting mechanics and overall fundamentals ... Seems to have modeled his fadeaway jumpshot after Dirk Nowitzki, and though it's not as accurate, it is extremely tough to defend ... Has good touch around the basket and shows good creativity on the drive ... Plays with solid aggressiveness, competitive player with a high level of energy and intensity ... Grabs rebounds well using his leaping ability ... Solid defensively as a shot blocker, with good timing and possesses good lateral quickness ... Has a fiery side(unlike Yao), if he gets elbowed he will get payback. But by no means is he a hothead or looking for trouble, he's just a competitior ...
Weaknesses: He's a tweener, but a "good tweener" ... Doesn't fit a position perfectly as he's more of a finesse player and too big to play the 3 position, but his combination of size and versatility makes him a very intriguing ... At times can be too laid back on the floor, so raising his intensity level is important ... Has good shooting mechanics but has a slow release... Could become a good shooter but probably never a great shooter ... His hands are a little weak, making it easier for opponents to poke the ball away (Yao Ming has the same problem) ... Needs to continue to gain upper body and arm strength, without losing any quickness ... If he adds additional strength, he will be able to fight for rebounds better ...He has no problems now, but it will be an adjustment to the speed and strength of the NBA ... Also like Yao the adjustment to a much longer season will take time ... The general consensus in China is that he is actually born in 1984 or 1985, meaning he wouldn't enter the NBA until he's actually 25 years of age if he stays in China until his 1987 draft year ... His game has matured to where he needs better competition to push him. He is a superior athlete in China, and lacks a great competition level, so his game is deteriorating to an extent staying in China in such crucial development years ...
Notes: Averaged: 20.5 PPG, 57.41 FG %, 75.08 FT%, 9.6 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.2 APG, 2.0 SPG in the 2005-06 season. Flirted with the idea of declaring for the NBA draft, but chose to stay with his Guangdong Tigers team and Chinese Olympic team. Has proven himself against American players in junior competitions (playing well at the ABCD camp in New Jersey) ... Did not perform well at the 2005 Hoops Summit game ...
See, I would not be happy/confident if that was all we came out of the draft with, but big talents like those are absolutely why I'd kill (or trade) to get a 2nd lottery pick if at all possible. Get one of the sureshot (relatively) studs and then ALSO take a flyer on a guy like that, and you could have the entire core rebuild done in 1 year.
I could see GP pulling a posturing trade to move up if we didnt get anything higher than like 8 or 9...possibly trading up with Boston at like #3, since they have a decent young core with Jefferson, Green, Perkins, Rondo and Telfair, they might bite on some veterans like Bibby or Miller....or even Artest.
edit: who knows what they're going to do with Pierce, too.
edit: who knows what they're going to do with Pierce, too.
Interesting that of all the guys that you mentioned above, only two have rings. You should go ahead and throw Garnett into the mix.
The 'get bad to get good' philosophy just makes very little sense to me. Losing does not make winners. Losing tends to beget losing. For every team that has turned around with a high draft pick I could show you a team that stays a loser. Teams like the Clippers, Hawks, Celtics, Bucks, Grizzlies among others have had many high draft picks and guess what......they still stink.
You can even throw the Kings franchise in their. Many high draft picks followed by many losing years. We built a good team 7-8 years ago primarily through free agency and trades.
Don't get me wrong. If we end up with a high draft pick I am all for making the most of it and I do not think that this team can help but to lose games. However, to get excited about the future when we lose or even hoping that we lose to get more ping pong balls is just misguided IMHO.
The 'get bad to get good' philosophy just makes very little sense to me. Losing does not make winners. Losing tends to beget losing. For every team that has turned around with a high draft pick I could show you a team that stays a loser. Teams like the Clippers, Hawks, Celtics, Bucks, Grizzlies among others have had many high draft picks and guess what......they still stink.
You can even throw the Kings franchise in their. Many high draft picks followed by many losing years. We built a good team 7-8 years ago primarily through free agency and trades.
Don't get me wrong. If we end up with a high draft pick I am all for making the most of it and I do not think that this team can help but to lose games. However, to get excited about the future when we lose or even hoping that we lose to get more ping pong balls is just misguided IMHO.
Good point, but the teams that you mentioned...Atlanta, Clippers, et al...made some very poor decisions in the "rebuilding" process, such as dumb draft choices (Atlanta is notorious) and bad FA moves.
I believe that letting the team "tank" (ie allow developing younger players more minutes & making no "stopgap" trades) and therefore getting a good lottery pick is a piece of the puzzle. The PF/C market is dry - especially for the type of players that Petrie likes. This draft has the most promising collection of PF's in a long while...it makes perfect sense to get the best possible player we can.
Realize that now Sacramento is not a desirable market for "superstars" to come to. All the more reason to rebuild...a supposed superstar would much rather lead a team of promising upstarts than veterans past their prime. And like I've said before, I'd much rather watch the former than the latter.
As for picks at this time, I believe it is going to be impossible to get Oden & Durant, barring some spectacular draft day trade. We will definitely stay in lottery contention if things keep up, as well as certain teams will assuredly increase their W's (Portland, NOK for example). I've got my eyes set on Josh McRoberts - a Webber-ish aggressive PF, and Marcus Williams, a Petrie-certified 205lb 6'7" GF with great shooting and rebounding skills.
I believe that letting the team "tank" (ie allow developing younger players more minutes & making no "stopgap" trades) and therefore getting a good lottery pick is a piece of the puzzle. The PF/C market is dry - especially for the type of players that Petrie likes. This draft has the most promising collection of PF's in a long while...it makes perfect sense to get the best possible player we can.
Realize that now Sacramento is not a desirable market for "superstars" to come to. All the more reason to rebuild...a supposed superstar would much rather lead a team of promising upstarts than veterans past their prime. And like I've said before, I'd much rather watch the former than the latter.
As for picks at this time, I believe it is going to be impossible to get Oden & Durant, barring some spectacular draft day trade. We will definitely stay in lottery contention if things keep up, as well as certain teams will assuredly increase their W's (Portland, NOK for example). I've got my eyes set on Josh McRoberts - a Webber-ish aggressive PF, and Marcus Williams, a Petrie-certified 205lb 6'7" GF with great shooting and rebounding skills.
Uh yeah...maybe might have something to do with them being young?
But here, you want titles, I'll give you the title list:
Chicago (Jordan #3) 6 titles
Houston (Hakeem #1) 2 titles
Detroit (Zeke #1) 2 titles
Lakers (Magic #1, Worthy #1) 5 titles
Boston (Bird #6, McHale #3) 3 titles
Also Spurs BTW (Robinson #1) 2 titles
You can twist turn, shout, whatever you'd like, and you never are going to get around having only the Lakers stealing Shaq -- something the Kings cannot ever duplicate because of who they are and where they are -- and the one year Pistons burp.
My 70's knowledge is shakier, and the ABA muddied the waters, but you are going to there find the champions drafted the vast majority of their stars too at the top of the draft, and ESPECIALLY star big men which power the majority of titles: Bill Walton ( Portland #1), Wes Unseld (Baltimore #2), Dave Cowens (Boston #4), Lew Alcindor (Milwaulkee #1), Jack Sikma (Seattle #8), Rick Barry (Warriors #4) etc. (at a certain point back there you lose relevance to the modern era).
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The Spurs tank, draft Tim Duncan with the #1 pick, and go on to greatness from there. They drafted their franchise player.
Kings need to do that, end of story. You need that player to lead your team when everyone else is off. Take today for example, T-Mac put up 29 for us in the FIRST HALF while everyone played atrocious. We're up 6 on the Mavs at halftime.
You get that franchise player through the draft or if some team dumps their player. Well, chances are you won't find a team dumping their player and even if they are, you better be lucky to have the right parts to get it done. So the draft is your best bet. And this draft is a once every few years kind of draft with superstar talent.
Kings need to do that, end of story. You need that player to lead your team when everyone else is off. Take today for example, T-Mac put up 29 for us in the FIRST HALF while everyone played atrocious. We're up 6 on the Mavs at halftime.
You get that franchise player through the draft or if some team dumps their player. Well, chances are you won't find a team dumping their player and even if they are, you better be lucky to have the right parts to get it done. So the draft is your best bet. And this draft is a once every few years kind of draft with superstar talent.