Grades v. Spurs 11/19

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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Artest ( B ) -- For a half there, looked like we had an answer for the Spurs. Ron got off to the huge start, and the Spurs looked confused about how to handle all 3 of Bibby/Martin and Artest. In any case, they had no answer for Ron himself, who had nearly 20 by halftime, and was doing it efficiently while also setting up teammates. But in the second half things fell apart -- it began to get ragged, Ron's shots began to miss, and then he got overexcited and started throwing up junk trying to save us as we started to slip. To make matters worse he injured a finger there and was in and out of the linuep afterward, and only hit one shot -- a layup. Defensively you rarely noticed him tonight, and on the glass he was just soso. An A first half, and then almost an incomplete and distrtacted second half. At least maybe that first half give sus a formula going forward, if Ron can duplicate it.
Thomas ( D ) -- well no surprise, but just too small to handle Duncan inside, as Tim went for 20pts 8rebs in the first HALF. And then in the late second quarter had insult added to injury as he got smacked in the mouth for his futile efforts, sending him straight to the lockerroom for stitches. A good question would be why Muss didn't make the switch and put Reef on Duncan more often. In any case, not going with the F here simply because this is 6'7" Kenny Thomas vs. 7'0" HOF MVP Tim Duncan, and this result was perfectly predictable to anybody not in the Kings front office apparently. Other than his obligatory blown layup, Kenny was moderately solid and didn't actually hurt us other than by getting squashed defensively, and the injury mitigates a bit. But an absolute wipeout either way.
Reef ( B+ ) -- had a good solid first half in most categories, scoring 12, grabbing 5 rebs. And the first few minutes of this one saw Reef come up with a couple of blocks in there. Not dominant, but steady throughout. Only real negative was a dumb and unnecessary technical foul arguing with Joe Crawford of all people in the first quarter. Slowed down offensively after half, and even threw up a dumb panicky three to join our self-destruction, but stepped up as our only significant rebounder. Not much better luick against Duncan than Thomas or Corliss actually, although there was at least some feeling of resistance. In any case this was just a solid effort. Never felt dominant. Never felt shaky. Just solid and working hard inside for the whole game, and unfortunately just outclassed in there.
Martin ( B ) -- got off to a pretty good start -- Spurs were paying a lot of attention to him, but interestingly not with Bowen. But after picking up his second foul kind of mysteriously did not return until the 3rd quarter. Saving him for the second half? Kind of an odd decision by Muss. In any case, after half quietly began to pile up points and ended up back at his familiar range with 20pts by the end of the third quarter, this time while often being checked by Bowen (although actually rarely went rigth at him + picked his spots on switches and whatnot). Not much late and despite some solid stretches just no real impact on this one.
Bibby ( D ) -- very very quiet start. Bizarrely invisible in fact. Not as in awful and trying while just missing shots, but as in seemingly just not even trying. Just dribbling it up, passing it off, and disappearing. Kind of have to believe the injury just had to be a factor given that passivity. In any case after half he did startt trying, but the results were decidely pukey. Most notable player for us to really not show up. Scored a few points at the line, but considerably padded his total in more or less garbagetime with us down 16 in the final 4 minutes. Bad non-effort from Mike. You see 16pts 4ast in the boxscore and you go, oh no THAT bad, but if you watched the game you barely even knew he was on the court.
Cisco ( C+ ) -- came back with a solid first quarter this time, generally staying in control, grabbing rebounds, and hitteng a shot. Did however repeatedly lose Brent Barry around the perimeter resulting in a predictable rain of threes. Was back in there late in the first half, and involved in an unfortunate sequence of events to close the half that saw us give up 4 pts to the Spurs in the final 5 seconds -- a weak loose ball foul on Manu, and then a bad decision on the inbounds play resulting in a TO and Duncan hit going into the half. With Ron nursing a bad hand played a lot of minutes in the second half to no appreciable effect at all. Maybe almost too cautious or something. In any case, you were rarely aware he was on court.
Corliss ( B- ) -- our backup center had an effective first half offensively, scoring in a variety of ways. Defensively was doing fine hidden away on the Obertos and Horrys, and then doomsday struck as Kenny had to leave and Corliss ended up staring at Duncan's belly button. Spent much of the rest of his time out there in that matchup, and not surprisingly it didn't go well. This was a decent effort by Corliss, but just giving up too much size for most of the night.
Price ( C ) -- Ronnie's best "play" of the game might have been running over Brent Barry at the end of the second quarter and sending him to the lockerroom to get stitches (before he returned late in the game looking like a brain surgery patient with a giant bandage alongside his head and headband to hold it on). Otherwise, would barely have known he was on the floor. I almost gave him the C here just because I had nothing to really grade him on, so go for the middle.
Douby ( INC ) -- garbagetime, nothing really
Hart ( INC ) -- garbagetime, gunned like Iverson, and helped make the score look closer than the game with 7pts in 2 minutes


Muss ( C ) -- 3 in a row now for no defense, and this time we only got a half of good offense. Still, could have been worse -- we were missing several guys, and they were more or less healthy, and yet we hung with the Spurs for a half before running out of steam. I think Muss made a mistake from the beginning in this one trying to guard Duncan with his defensive ace KT, when SAR was probably our best and only hope there. Although if SAR had gotten into foul toruble trying to stop Duncan, then there would have gone our only inside game, so maybe it can be argued. In any case, clearly our vaunted ability to shut down post players wasn't so vaunted here, and much of it just came down to size. Duncan just played over everybody's head. And I again have to question if Mike should be up there if he just can't perform and isn't healing. Of course after this one we are looking like a damn Mash unit, and Mike might be realtively healthy compared to Kenny (stitche) Price (stitches?), ron (finger) Salmons (still out with thigh) Brad (foot). Ugh. And now we get 9-1 Utah. :eek: Couple of Muss related notes here: first, at the enjd of the first half he tried what I thought was a cute and sneaky inbounds play underneath our basket where he had TWO guys stand on the baseline, Reef pass it to Cisco (the other guy ont eh baseline) and then had Reef streak up court where Cisco was supposed to hit him with the pass. Well, sneaky, cute, but a fiasco when the inbounder just flat out misses and throws the ball into the stands. Ended up costing us two points. Secondly, I'm sorry because I never thought I'd ever find myself saying this, but...VITALY. Gawdammit coach, you were defnding Tim Duncan with Corliss. Just throw the big lug in there some night and see what happens. Third, pulling Kenny after he was ineffective after coming back in the second half made sense, even if it did leave us with Corliss on Duncan, but a couple of other absences were odd. First, Kevin picked up his second foul in the early 2nd quarter I think, and then bizarrely he never returned for the rest of the half. Strangfe for your leading scorer to not even let him play again and hope he doesn't get number thrre. And second, wiht about 5 minutes to go, Muss pulled Ron in favor of Cisco, but lef thte rest of the main guys out there. Unless Ron said somehtng to him about that finger, was that surrender? Partial surrender? Wisdom? Not sure. If he pulls everybody, its surrendering too early. But just pulling Ron...was he waiting to see if we got closer before putting him back in? Just felt odd while we were still technically kicking. Anyway -- Spurs are better than us. They won. Not a disaster. Just a rather predictable loss.

Duncan ( ) -- he's tall. Must be nice, having tall guys. That was what most of his dominance tongiht was about -- being tall. Shot over us, rebounded over us. protected the interior. Tall = nice.
 
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#2
placeholder thread... (woot first time I got second post!)

Maybe my second place is bad luck?

Either way, B- to Artest, B to Kevin and Reef, F's all the way around for the rest..
 
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#4
trade kenny
petrie wake up and sign a shotblocker
this is the same old story as we had the past two years
guys are driving in for layups like nothing, while duncan is just tossing it up with no contest
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
Okay, knock off the crap against KT. He was hit in the mouth, lost a tooth, and had to have 10 stitches. The fact he even came back out is worth something.

Show some respect for the guys wearing the uniform. This constant dumping on KT has gotten way out of control. He is STILL a Sacramento King.
 
#7
Two F's and one A-

F: Referees - I'm sorry but even Spurs fans can't argue this one. That bogus foul on Cisco on an absolutely clean box-out really set the tone. Meanwhile, Ginobli has the usual foul bailout on his wild stumbling dribble shot, etc. etc.

F: Kenny Thomas. If this man worked a normal job, he would be fired.

A- : Eric Mussleman. "A" for benching Kenny Thomas, "-" for everything else in the game. By the way, with K-mart being the best scorer on the team, why did he play a total of 9 minutes in the first half?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#8
So, Greenspan? How often have you had one of your teeth knocked out, a split lip that required 10 stitches and gone back to finish your shift at work?

Cut Thomas some slack on this...
 
#9
Two F's and one A-

F: Referees - I'm sorry but even Spurs fans can't argue this one. That bogus foul on Cisco on an absolutely clean box-out really set the tone. Meanwhile, Ginobli has the usual foul bailout on his wild stumbling dribble shot, etc. etc.

F: Kenny Thomas. If this man worked a normal job, he would be fired.

A- : Eric Mussleman. "A" for benching Kenny Thomas, "-" for everything else in the game. By the way, with K-mart being the best scorer on the team, why did he play a total of 9 minutes in the first half?
Martin was in foul trouble in the first half but for the most part the first half was not the problem. But i do aree Martin to go along with sar should be our primary scorers, they have been our most releble scorers all year and would like to see them get more shots then they did today. But the biggest problem is the interior D, we need a big badlly.
 
#10
So, Greenspan? How often have you had one of your teeth knocked out, a split lip that required 10 stitches and gone back to finish your shift at work?

Cut Thomas some slack on this...

I'd be inclined to agree until seeing a stitched-up Brent Barry come back to contribute to his team in this very same game after a head-to-head collision.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#11
Okay, knock off the crap against KT. He was hit in the mouth, lost a tooth, and had to have 10 stitches. The fact he even came back out is worth something.

Show some respect for the guys wearing the uniform. This constant dumping on KT has gotten way out of control. He is STILL a Sacramento King.
Seriously. He was playing Duncan. Give the guy a break.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#12
I'd be inclined to agree until seeing a stitched-up Brent Barry come back to contribute to his team in this very same game after a head-to-head collision.

Sorry, but while you can applaud Barry, that is much different than having your mouth missing a tooth and cut open requiring 10 stitches. Have you ever had a healthy tooth knocked out? It is a lot more jarring than a bump on the noggin. :eek:
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#13
Muss ( C ) -- 3 in a row now for no defense, and this time we only got a half of good offense. Still, could have been worse -- we were missing several guys, and they were more or less healthy, and yet we hung with them for a half before running out of steam. I think Muss made a mistake from the beginning in this one trying to guard Duncan with his defensive ace KT, when SAR was probably our best and only hope there. Although if SAR had gotten into foul toruble trying to stop Duncan, then there would have gone our only inside game, so maybe it can be argued. In any case, clearly our vaunted ability to shut down post players wasn't so vaunted here, and much of it just came down to size. Duncan just played over everybody's head. And I again have to question if Mike should be up there if he just can't perform and isn't healing. Of course after this one we are looking like a damn Mash unit, and Mike might be realtively healthy compared to Kenny (stitche) Price (stitches?), ron (finger) Salmons (still out with thigh) Brad (foot). Ugh. And now we get 9-1 Utah. :eek: Couple of Muss related notes here: first, at the enjd of the first half he tried what I thought was a cute and sneaky inbounds play underneath our basket where he had TWO guys stand on the baseline, Reef pass it to Cisco (the other guy ont eh baseline) and then had Reef streak up court where Cisco was supposed to hit him with the pass. Well, sneaky, cute, but a fiasco when the inbounder just flat out misses and throws the ball into the stands. Ended up costing us two points. Secondly, I'm sorry because I never thought I'd ever find myself saying this, but...VITALY. Gawdammit coach, you were defnding Tim Duncan with Corliss. Just throw the big lug in there some night and see what happens. Third, pulling Kenny after he was ineffective after coming back in the second half made sense, even if it did leave us with Corliss on Duncan, but a couple of other absences were odd. First, Kevin picked up his second foul in the early 2nd quarter I think, and then bizarrely he never returned for the rest of the half. Strangfe for your leading scorer to not even let him play again and hope he doesn't get number thrre. And second, wiht about 5 minutes to go, Muss pulled Ron in favor of Cisco, but lef thte rest of the main guys out there. Unless Ron said somehtng to him about that finger, was that surrender? Partial surrender? Wisdom? Not sure. If he pulls everybody, its surrendering too early. But just pulling Ron...was he waiting to see if we got closer before putting him back in? Just felt odd while we were still technically kicking. Anyway -- Spurs are better than us. They won. Not a disaster. Just a rather predictable loss.
I'd be sorely tempted to lower his grade one step for the Adelman imitiation when he let things stay out of control way too long before coming up to a pre-arranged time out. This was not IMHO anything close to a C endeavor on the part of Coach Muss. One of the few things I didn't have a problem with was him pulling Artest. The odds of Artest further aggravating his back AND finger were sky-rocketing as the game got further out of reach. Artest would, I believe, tried even harder to get the game back and I don't think we really needed to take the chance this early in the season.

But, having vented with that, it was the Spurs. We aren't the 2002-2003 Kings. It really is that simple.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
I'd be sorely tempted to lower his grade one step for the Adelman imitiation when he let things stay out of control way too long before coming up to a pre-arranged time out.
You know what? I totally forgot to mention that, and I originally meant o. That was bad. Kept on saying "call the timeout", and he never did while we fell apart.
 
#15
Sorry, but while you can applaud Barry, that is much different than having your mouth missing a tooth and cut open requiring 10 stitches. Have you ever had a healthy tooth knocked out? It is a lot more jarring than a bump on the noggin. :eek:
I have, it doesn't feel very good.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#16
You know what? I totally forgot to mention that, and I originally meant o. That was bad. Kept on saying "call the timeout", and he never did while we fell apart.
I was screaming at the TV. It was like watching an impending train wreck and realizing the one guy who could pull the rail switch at the last moment was the one standing next to me, totally immobilized, staring at the tracks.
 
#17
trade kenny
petrie wake up and sign a shotblocker
this is the same old story as we had the past two years
guys are driving in for layups like nothing, while duncan is just tossing it up with no contest
I know let's all jump on K9 tonight.....he is everyone's scapecoat, you know. However, K9 only played 18 minutes tonight, which begs the question "who was playing defense in the paint the other 30 minutes?"
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#18
I know let's all jump on K9 tonight.....he is everyone's scapecoat, you know. However, K9 only played 18 minutes tonight, which begs the question "who was playing defense in the paint the other 30 minutes?"

Oh, that's easy...................no one! :eek:
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#19
I know let's all jump on K9 tonight.....he is everyone's scapecoat, you know. However, K9 only played 18 minutes tonight, which begs the question "who was playing defense in the paint the other 30 minutes?"
Kingsfans saying, the 'Golden Years': "Blame Finley"

Kingsfans saying, 06/07-season: "Blame Kenny"

:rolleyes:
 
#20
I know let's all jump on K9 tonight.....he is everyone's scapecoat, you know. However, K9 only played 18 minutes tonight, which begs the question "who was playing defense in the paint the other 30 minutes?"
when you miss a point blank layup with no one around you within 5 feet that kinda just demoralizes the viewer as well
 
#21
Until the wheels came off that wasn't such a terrible effort. The Spurs are like a well-oiled machine, Duncan looks rejuvinated this season, and the key parts have played together long enough that they always know where the ball is going to go -- that crazy chemistry that comes from playing together for three or four years. And yet even getting absolutely nothing out of Bibby and Kenny Thomas the Kings put up a pretty good fight.

Really, really impressive effort by Kevin Martin, not only putting up 20 points and almost swinging the momentum with that three but also doing a really great job bothering Tony Parker. The Spurs were gunning for him and kept him away from his spots, but he still found a way to score 20 points on 11 shots. A really impressive effort.

Just nothing from Bibby. What's especially painful about a Bibby no-show is that he already isn't helping you on defense, and this time he didn't show the floor leadership that the Kings really need from him. He has to be the guy who recognizes when things are getting ragged and get the ball down low or set Martin up or somehow get the Kings a good look. Instead he feeds the raggedness by throwing up his own ill-advised shots. He has to find a way to set the tone rather than reacting and letting things get even more out of hand.

With Ron, I hate to say it, but it's getting to the point where I start getting nervous if he hits a few shots early on. Then he starts thinking he's feeling it, then the forces start, then he misses a few shots, and pretty soon he's shot the Kings out of the game. This is always going to be a situation.

Musselman... ok, look. Kenny is a decent power forward most nights. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking he can in any way shape or form even hope to guard Tim Duncan. The same goes for Corliss. Shareef should have been on Duncan all night. No doubt Duncan would have abused him as well, but at least it wouldn't have been just easy.

And finally, really gutsy night from Shareef, playing 44 minutes, getting no help inside and coming away with two double-doubles in three games. He looked like he was getting tired out there in the end, but without him this game might have been a total catastrophe.
 
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#24
Musselman... ok, look. Kenny is a decent power forward most nights. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking he can in any way shape or form even hope to guard Tim Duncan. The same goes for Corliss. Shareef should have been on Duncan all night. No doubt Duncan would have abused him as well, but at least it wouldn't have been just easy.

I agree. Reef put up some good fights against Duncan in last year's first round playoff matchup.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#25
Ron necessarily didn't shoot us out of this game.

We were going along, then the wheels just feel off...I forget the exact plays over the stretch, but it went something like, bad call, offensive foul, turnover, technical foul, another turnover...Or whatever...Only then did Ron start gunning, at which point we had tried evewrything else and it had resulted in offensive fouls and TOs.

His gunning didnt help in any way imaginable, but Ron didn't shoot us out of this game tonight.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#26
I agree. Reef put up some good fights against Duncan in last year's first round playoff matchup.
Only 1 really. But he had another during the regular season. The claims made about his individual defense sometimes border on outrageous, but he's certianly the only "big" still healthy who has any kind of stature, however diminished, to throw out there against Tim Duncan.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
Ron necessarily didn't shoot us out of this game.

We were going along, then the wheels just feel off...I forget the exact plays over the stretch, but it went something like, bad call, offensive foul, turnover, technical foul, another turnover...Or whatever...Only then did Ron start gunning, at which point we had tried evewrything else and it had resulted in offensive fouls and TOs.

His gunning didnt help in any way imaginable, but Ron didn't shoot us out of this game tonight.

I would agree with that cause and effect: Ron's gunning did not cause the wheels to fall off; the wheels falling off caused Ron to gun to try to save it, and of course it only made it worse.
 
#28
nbran.....I agree with you about the funny felling I get when Artest hits a couple of shots early. Let me clarify that, I feel funny when he hits jumpshots early because he often gets lazy and relies on his jumpshot instead of driving or posting up which he is far more effective at doing. His jumpshot is far too streaky and we all know that he has no conception of "good shots." He did, however, have a very good offensive first half. Not sure why the Kings did not utilize him and Reef in the post in the second half. No surprise that as we became reliant on the jumpshot teh game slipped away.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#29
First, I'm not necessarily a fan of Pot, haven't seen him play much. BUT.... Could he gotten his big bod in Duncan's way more than our 6-7 do nothing PF? Could not his presence at least have slowed down Duncan's easy shots near the basket? Could we have not used his 6 fouls to slow down their in-the-paint party?
 
#30
Could not his presence at least have slowed down Duncan's easy shots near the basket? Could we have not used his 6 fouls to slow down their in-the-paint party?
I agree, at least Potapenko had the possibility of being disruptive to Duncan. Shareef and Kenny simply don't have the height or athleticism to bother Duncan or slow him down.
 
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