Sacbee: Proposal 'blindsided' Maloofs

kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#31
#31
Jerryaki said:
in a central business district, you are pretty much limited to a parking garage, and i don't understand how people can want to drive there and then complain about everyone else wanting to leave at the same time and causing traffic.
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That's how I feel about it. If I drive, I go knowing I'll have to put up with the traffic.

As to getting out of Arden Fair Mall in 10 minutes. Maybe you've never been there during the Christmas shopping season? :eek: I NEVER shop there at Christmas. Even the worst parking garage situation I've ever been in pales in comparison to that parking lot. I've had it take an hour or more just to get in and out. It just wasn't worth it.

One time I was trying to get to Kaiser (near Arden Fair) when the Veteran's Day sale was on. Traffic was backed up for a mile in every direction I tried. I finally gave up. Its awful.
 
Jerryaki

Jerryaki

Starter
#32
#32
^exactly, you go knowing in advance what you're going to have to put up with for the convenience of driving.

and even if the maloofs and developer come up with some magical solution to the parking situation, there is a phenomenon known as triple convergence. basically, any solution to a traffic problem will cause people to either 1) change their mode of transportation (drive when they hadn't planned on it), 2) route (going to where the solution/extra capacity is), or 3) time of travel. you build a great parking solution, you're just going to get more people driving to it.

the answer is to NOT DRIVE. plus it'll slow down that nagging little global warming problem we currently have.
 
A

Arena Skeptic

Bench
#33
#33
More on parking:

I found this on the "Quality of Life" website the County has put up...

"The provision of adequate parking for between 5,000 to 6,000 spaces are planned within a ten minute walking distance of sports and entertainment facility"

It just seems to me that if the JPA builds a parking structure next to the arena with 3,000 spots, they have fulfilled this requirement. So in asking for 8,000 parking spots, the Maloofs are completely wrong. The agreement doesn't imply that at all. There are already a good 2,000 spots in Downtown Plaza; build a lot of some sort for 3,000 next to the arena... And, we're done.

I personally never have taken more than 10 minutes to get out of Arden Fair. I am sorry for those who have. But, dang, doesn't that illustrate my point exactly? A 7 story structure next to the arena for parking will NEVER empty in under an hour, not with everyone leaving at once. Arden Fair doesn't completely empty in the space of 15 minutes, like a sports arena, by nature, does.

"Would you like road rage with that, sir?"

Maybe they'll empty the arena like they serve a buffet dinner. You know, one section at a time can leave. "Section 213, you may now leave the arena." Staggered exiting.
 
Jerryaki

Jerryaki

Starter
#34
#34
Arena Skeptic said:
A 7 story structure next to the arena for parking will NEVER empty in under an hour, not with everyone leaving at once. Arden Fair doesn't completely empty in the space of 15 minutes, like a sports arena, by nature, does.
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so if the leaving is such a time hassle, people really shouldn't be driving to the games...

if you build a 5,000 spot parking structure (which you seem to think is a good number), what about the people who won't be able to park within walking distance?
 
A

Arena Skeptic

Bench
#35
#35
I didn't say 5,000 parking spots; the Memorandum of Understanding says 5,000-6,000 spots. I don't care if it turns out to be 6,001 or 4,999 spots; that's not the point.

The point is, a lot of folks are saying, "Yeah, why DON'T they get 8,000 spots?!", which is what they're now asking for.

Well, the document they signed says 5,000-6,000 within 10 minutes of the arena. They already have 2,000 spots in the Downtown Plaza, which will meet the 10 minute requirement. Sounds like all we need is a 3,000 spot garage to fill the letter of the MOU.

So Joe is patently wrong in now demanding 8,000 spots. It is he who is in violation of the agreement, not the City/County.

I forget... Is Joe playing the role of Laverne or Shirley this week? "No. I won't return that call. Tell them I'm washing my hair."
 
Jerryaki

Jerryaki

Starter
#36
#36
1) if 8,000 was initially agreed upon, the maloofs are correct in demanding it, regardless of whether or not it's the right number.

2) 5,000 spots isn't the point, the point is that you want to limit the spaces so the people who drive there can leave in under an hour. i don't agree with that because you should know what you're getting into when you drive to an event, and merely limiting the spaces will screw other people (who want to drive) over.

3) when was that MOU written up? did it give a guideline for 5,000 spots for a sporting arena with the capacity that MSE is envisioning for this new arena? will the existing 2,000 spots be available every time there is an event???
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#38
#38
Jerryaki said:
3) when was that MOU written up? did it give a guideline for 5,000 spots for a sporting arena with the capacity that MSE is envisioning for this new arena? will the existing 2,000 spots be available every time there is an event???
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Exactly. I bet it was for parking under control by MSE for events, not general parking which might not be available at any particular time.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#39
#39
Again, the number of parking spots isn't as big a deal as who is collecting the revenue from them. There will be plenty of spots spread over the area. This is all posturing for who gets the revenue from which garages. If I'm reading between the lines correctly, they are only giving MSE the revenue from those garages directly attached to the arena. There are thousands more stalls under the retail/residential located adjacent to and across from the sports/entertainment zone.
Look at the zoning map here and get a better idea of what I'm talking about.
http://www.sacramentorailyards.com/attractions/planZoom.asp
The blue area represents the MSE controlled zone and the red area represents the developer controlled zone. There is parking under most of the red zone. It should now start becoming clear that the parking issue isn't some sort of logistical issue as is being potrayed - it's revenue related as always.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#40
#40
The posts in the past 1-2 hours have been interesting.

If the maloofs build a 7 story garage with 8,000 cars, it may take awhile to get out of the thing right after a game. In this case, I would more likely park somewhere else that is a 10-20 minute walk away and possibly less expensive. I would rather take a 10-20 minute walk in a fun downtown than sit in my car in a garage for 20-30 minutes or more.

I guess I am saying that the Maloofs would more likely get my parking money if they built a smaller garage.
 
ShatteredVision

ShatteredVision

Bench
#42
#42
If you look at the Madison Square Garden in NY and The TD Garden in Boston, there is little parking surrounding the immediate area. They probably haven't seen a blacktop devoted to parking.

It shows the big city mentality to not drive to an event directly.

I guess as Californians we are slaves to our cars.

Sacramento can really develop their mass transit infrastructure during this process.
 
Kingsgurl

Kingsgurl

Starter
#43
#43
Actually, it is all, thankfully, making a lot more sense. Parking, in a small corporate based market without a lucrative TV deal is a HUGE issue. If they were promised something in negotiations, that part of the bargain should certainly be upheld. Parking slots available within X distance that they don't control the revenue to do not count.
I think what people fail to grasp is that operating an NBA franchise is NOT a money making proposition. (Hence one of the BIG reasons you don't want the city to share in the risk/revenue stream) We want the Maloofs to spend big bucks to field a winning team, a team we can be proud of, but damned if we want them to actually turn a profit doing it. Some years they will, some years they won't. That's life in Sports. That's a risk they have happily taken for us for many years. They paid the red ink, they paid on the old loan (even made a huge AHEAD payment) I think it is silly to expect them to set themselves and the team up for financial failure. We are talking about some parking spots here, some set amount of acerage. If they need that for the Arena to be top notch and for them to be able to not LOSE money every year, then so be it. If an agreement was made, stick to it.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#44
#44
Another thing to remember. Parking at Arco may average 8,000 spots for Kings games and less for other events. But that parking revenue only comes in based on the number of events held at Arco. The nice deal about a garage in a retail and hotel district is that you have revenue coming in 365 days a year. It's a whole new dynamic. There is no need to match the 8,000 total spots.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#45
#45
JB_kings said:
Another thing to remember. Parking at Arco may average 8,000 spots for Kings games and less for other events. But that parking revenue only comes in based on the number of events held at Arco. The nice deal about a garage in a retail and hotel district is that you have revenue coming in 365 days a year. It's a whole new dynamic. There is no need to match the 8,000 total spots.
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That's only if they charge parking fees for the rest of the time, which they might not if it is adjacent to general retail. Heck, they may keep the lots closed most of the time until an event rolls around....
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#47
#47
Warhawk said:
That's only if they charge parking fees for the rest of the time, which they might not if it is adjacent to general retail. Heck, they may keep the lots closed most of the time until an event rolls around....
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Parking anywhere else downtown like Downtown Plaza and Old Sac always charge. They don't have to validate or allow monthly permits. They'll make some money.
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#49
#49
One of the reasons I was in favor of downtown, is that I would definitely use light rail. When I worked right downtown, I commuted that way. It was so nice. :D
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#50
#50
Arena Skeptic said:
The point is, a lot of folks are saying, "Yeah, why DON'T they get 8,000 spots?!", which is what they're now asking for.

So Joe is patently wrong in now demanding 8,000 spots. It is he who is in violation of the agreement, not the City/County.
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There is no demand for 8,000 parking spots. John Dangberg is full of BS. I've heard 5,000 come out of Joe Maloofs own mouth today.
 
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