[Game] 37/82 Kings vs. Heat 06 JAN 2025, 7pm PT/10pm ET

Kings can still sweep 16 regular season series (10 east/6 west). How many will they?


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pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
For as long as I can remember Sacramento media by and large (Ailene Voisin was a notable exception) have been more than happy to reheat and re-serve whatever purple-colored narrative that the Kings front office wants to sell them. I'm 98% certain that 29 other franchises would have signed Mike Brown to that same extension after the job he did in his first two seasons and the reactions we're getting from other NBA coaches are entirely reasonable reactions to have outside of the Sacramento bubble. Historically, Kings fans have their own logic about these things. For example, it's tough to explain now, but there was only a tepid level of unrest in Sacramento when Rick Adelman wasn't re-signed in 2006. A sizable chunk of fans had bought into the "we can do better" narrative.

I don't think the disconnect between Kings fan logic on this Mike Brown issue and pretty everyone else in the NBA orbit is because everyone else is clueless, let me put it that way. This might sound like a put-down but I don't intend it that way. Sacramento is a one team market forever in the shadow of some very very big intra-state rivalries which extend beyond sports. The level of hyper-focus, the psychic weight imparted by how well the team is playing at any given moment, and the unique penchant for second, triple, and quadruple guessing which flow out of this fanbase all evince to me a highly irregular fan ecosystem which exists in very few other places that I've encountered. That level of passion can be very uplifting but it does come with a dark side.

There are structural roster problems which have not gone away with this coaching change and will continue to crop up throughout this season if Monte isn't able to make any trade deadline moves. Any way you slice it, 6 games is too small of a sample to draw sweeping conclusions about the next 40 games. As for "heart" and "fight" or whatever other cliches folks want to credit to Coach Christie, it was mostly this same group of players who went 5-1 in OT games last season and 4-1 in OT games the year before that. And I don't think there's any question that the ego-management part of this job got a lot tougher with Fox quite visibly looking toward his next paycheck, Monk looking to solidify his on-court role now that his long-term future is decided, DeRozan bringing in his All-Star / All-NBA pedigree and hoping for a long playoff run to ossify that Hall of Fame resume, and Keegan trying to keep pace with what's expected from a top 5 pick.

Yes there were apparent cracks in the foundation which are not easy to explain away. Why did Mike Brown stop calling quick timeouts? Why did he stop high fiving players on the sideline as they came out of the game? Why did he appear to come down harder on some player mistakes than others? Was there playful pushback from the players toward his "give me just a little bit more" coaching ethos or had that pushback turned in a more sinister direction? I've been telling people for the last 20 years that Doug Christie was my favorite Kings player so I'd love to join in the lovefest being showered upon him right now but I think he's mostly benefitting from the glow-up of being "not that guy". Mike Brown had simply become the most convenient scapegoat for a group which was not winning and had lost their "us against the world" swagger which is typically what has carried this franchise through similar streaks in the past.

Given all of the reasons I listed above for why none of this team's on-the-court leaders would be willing to take on the burden of personal responsibility this time, it was just a perfect storm of a notoriously impatient owner putting the heat on his front office to do something about all of this right now and the financial calamity of this current CBA tying the front office's hands (along with most other franchises) and making it very difficult to accomplish that directive. The real wizard behind the curtain of Mike Brown's firing here is all of the chatter about other teams wanting to swipe Fox away from us if we don't transform into a contender in the next 3 weeks. Which is ironic because those same talking heads who stoked the flames of Fox thievery which got Mike Brown fired now get to clap back at his firing as more evidence that Sacramento is a disaster which Fox needs to escape from ASAP. See how this works?

Balancing all of this out I see two potential silver linings: (1) Getting Devin Carter healthy was a big plus for Doug Christie's rotations -- as the only other defensive wing on this roster besides Keon and Keegan, the rotations never quite made sense in the early part of this season without him. His activity level on defense and on the boards is already paying dividends even if on offense he's quite clearly a rookie and will need time to grow into a balanced NBA level skillset. (2) Regardless of the circumstances which led to Coach Christie taking the reins, his stint on the bench started before Mike Brown was hired so any immediate loss of continuity has been mitigated. And NBA players throughout time immemorial have responded better to coaching which comes from former NBA players, especially when those players were parts of winning teams in the past. The timing couldn't have worked out better with Doug taking over just as defensive glue-guy Devin Carter was ready to join the rotation. Now Doug's reputation as a player and Devin's skillset get to reinforce each other on a team which was absolutely desperate for another long-limbed mobile wing who can help to control the 3pt line.

We'll see what happens when this season ends... If Doug is out and someone from outside the organization comes in looking to impart their own personal coaching philosophies (which of course they would) then I would expect a significant dismantling to follow in the near future. A lot is riding on this current swell developing into a tide and sustaining itself for the next 40+ games.
Respectfully I disagree. He signed a 4 year deal with a mutual out at year 3 and used that and the media to demand a raise after year 2 (insinuating he would walk at the end of this season if he did not receive it) and then proceeded to make a mess of everything.

I am also one of those people that believes that coaches have input in their rosters and this team is a reflection of what Mike Brown wanted on the court.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Respectfully I disagree. He signed a 4 year deal with a mutual out at year 3 and used that and the media to demand a raise after year 2 (insinuating he would walk at the end of this season if he did not receive it) and then proceeded to make a mess of everything.

I am also one of those people that believes that coaches have input in their rosters and this team is a reflection of what Mike Brown wanted on the court.
He was the first (and only) unanimous Coach of the Year winner in NBA history in year one of his contract! He signed a "prove it" deal and absolutely shattered every performance expectation. You wouldn't ask for a raise with just one year left on your contract in that situation? Did you honestly expect the only NBA franchise with a 16 year playoff drought in its history to force the coach responsible for ending that streak to sweat through a lame duck season? The fact that the Kings even allowed that to become a story is just more evidence to me of where the real problem lies.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
He was the first (and only) unanimous Coach of the Year winner in NBA history in year one of his contract! He signed a "prove it" deal and absolutely shattered every performance expectation. You wouldn't ask for a raise with just one year left on your contract in that situation? Did you honestly expect the only NBA franchise with a 16 year playoff drought in its history to force the coach responsible for ending that streak to sweat through a lame duck season? The fact that the Kings even allowed that to become a story is just more evidence to me of where the real problem lies.
I can assure you that I would never do such a thing. I'm a man of my word and to me signing a contract like that you don't come back to the table at the halfway point. I may have asked the org to drop their option on year 4 as a token of good faith and exercised my opt out after year 3 because that was basically what an honorable person would do.

At the time I threw my hands up knowing he had us over the barrel and we had to give in.

But I did not appreciate it, and it shows bad character.

That's not how I was raised.

/soapbox
 
IMHO Kings were bullied into the extension by Brown and local media who have a hate boner for Monte and Vivek (Matina too, and I'm not even sure they know why they have all just been told to hate her so they do). They ran with the "Vivek is so cheap he's going to screw this up" and in the end they get a deal done and have to fire the guy months later when he clearly lost the team.

And sadly even those of us who held hope for Coach have to admit the signs were there last year.
In the NBA, agents have significant control of the media because they leak scoops (they are the first to know after all), in exchange for loyalty. The media, broadly speaking, are owned puppets, it's just a question of who owns them. In sports, particularly the NBA, it's the agents.

One may speculate that Brown's agent was exerting control through the media to get him his payday. Obviously, the agents' (as a whole) opponent are the owners and FO (the people who write the checks). That's likely why the media "hates" Vivek and the FO. The average fan is totally oblivious to these dynamics by it explains a lot of what happens in the NBA.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
In the NBA, agents have significant control of the media because they leak scoops (they are the first to know after all), in exchange for loyalty. The media, broadly speaking, are owned puppets, it's just a question of who owns them. In sports, particularly the NBA, it's the agents.

One may speculate that Brown's agent was exerting control through the media to get him his payday. Obviously, the agents' (as a whole) opponent are the owners and FO (the people who write the checks). That's likely why the media "hates" Vivek and the FO. The average fan is totally oblivious to these dynamics by it explains a lot of what happens in the NBA.
In the Kings case the Bee was cut to shreds so most of our media is Fan media and their agenda/interest in all of this is getting the players to like them, followed by the coach, if they're lucky, so they can get to feel special (and some are malignant narcissists who like to be on screen/hear their voice, etc).

They dislike ownership because a) they control the purse strings and it's cool to hate people with more money than you (hey, I do it too if you follow me on twitter!) and b) it appears that ownership doesn't treat them the way celebrity journos get treated (and yes, that includes the fact this front office/ownership group does not leak).
 
I can assure you that I would never do such a thing. I'm a man of my word and to me signing a contract like that you don't come back to the table at the halfway point. I may have asked the org to drop their option on year 4 as a token of good faith and exercised my opt out after year 3 because that was basically what an honorable person would do.

At the time I threw my hands up knowing he had us over the barrel and we had to give in.

But I did not appreciate it, and it shows bad character.

That's not how I was raised.

/soapbox
Once we're at the point of contracts, whether people are verbally trustworthy or not is irrelevant.

The whole point of a contract is to make it possible to make deals between people who are untrustworthy. It's the only reason why they exist at all.
 
Carter is going to take Huerter out of the rotation (Huerter is not a “catch and shoot” player as much as a motion shooter). And a high arc on a shot is absolutely not a problem. If anyone on the team messes with Carter’s shot, they should be fired.
Agreed, if it keeps going in, then we are golden.

Much like Haliburton’s 3 pt shot, it’s ugly, but it goes in at a good rate (prior to this year).
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
I can assure you that I would never do such a thing. I'm a man of my word and to me signing a contract like that you don't come back to the table at the halfway point. I may have asked the org to drop their option on year 4 as a token of good faith and exercised my opt out after year 3 because that was basically what an honorable person would do.

At the time I threw my hands up knowing he had us over the barrel and we had to give in.

But I did not appreciate it, and it shows bad character.

That's not how I was raised.

/soapbox
I appreciate your commitment to a principle and I do recall now that this was an issue for you at the time. Let me throw out some numbers though just for fun to see if I might cast a small seed of doubt on that. The majority owner of the Sacramento Kings is a billionaire. This team is an investment for him, not a hobby -- and it's an absurdly profitable one which has doubled in value in less than 5 years.

The current mid-level exception in the NBA (generally an acceptable contract for a journeyman veteran role-player) is almost $13 million per season with max level players now making as much as $60 million per year as of 2024. By the end of the decade these numbers are going to be a lot bigger. The contract Mike Brown signed was paying him $4 million per season and the raise he asked for (and got) increased that to $8.5 million per year.

If I were in his situation, I would be happy to think of that $4.5 million raise as an end of the year bonus for being voted the best in the league at my job. It's still a mere pittance compared to what most of the players I was hired to coach are going to be making and it's less than 1/10th of 1/10th of what my employer has made in the last 5 years for doing absolutely nothing at all. There's something to be said for knowing your worth. Is it gauche to ask for it? I used to think so. Age and experience have changed my mind about that.

Now I can understand if you say that your word is your word in any and all circumstances but it seems to me that there's a disconnect in there somewhere between "we love you, thank you for rescuing our franchise from irrelevance" and "no we don't want to give you an extra $4.5 million this year because you signed on the dotted line already and business is business." With the kind of net worth appreciation that NBA owners are seeing, rewarding the people who do right by you -- the very people driving your business -- should be automatic. Mike Brown shouldn't even have to ask -- the night after the Kings wrecked Golden State in the play-in game last year that contract extension should have already been on Mike Brown's desk. Just my opinion.

All of this is irrelevant now though.
 
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pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
I appreciate your commitment to a principle and I do recall now that this was an issue for you at the time. Let me see throw out some numbers though just for fun to see if I might cast a small seed of doubt on that. The majority owner of the Sacramento Kings is a billionaire. This team is an investment for him, not a hobby -- and it's an absurdly profitable one which has doubled in value in less than 5 years.

The current mid-level exception in the NBA (generally an acceptable contract for a journeyman veteran role-player) is almost $13 million per season with max level players now making as much as $60 million per year as of 2024. By the end of the decade these numbers are going to be a lot bigger. The contract Mike Brown signed was paying him $4 million per season and the raise he asked for (and got) increased that to $8.5 million per year.

If I were in his situation, I would be happy to think of that $4.5 million raise as an end of the year bonus for being voted the best in the league at my job. It's still a mere pittance compared to what most of the players I was hired to coach are going to be making and it's less than 1/10th of 1/10th of what my employer has made in the last 5 years for doing absolutely nothing at all. There's something to be said for knowing your worth. Is it gauche to ask for it? I used to think so. Age and experience have changed my mind about that.

Now I can understand if you say that your word is your word in any and all circumstances but it seems to me that there's a disconnect in there somewhere between "we love you, thank you for rescuing our franchise from irrelevance" and "no we don't want you to give you an extra $4.5 million this year because you signed on the dotted line already and business is business." With the kind of net worth appreciation that NBA owners are seeing, rewarding the people who do right by you -- the very people driving your business -- should be automatic. Mike Brown shouldn't even have to ask -- the night after the Kings wrecked Golden State in the play-in game last year that contract extension should have already been on Mike Brown's desk. Just my opinion.

All of this is irrelevant now though.
I guess the thing is that ultimately this was the cycle of Brown and we were warned and chose to believe he had grown and would not repeat mistakes of the past. It seems that literally he's back at square one (aside from the fact now the media that called him a loser and a retread loves him!)

I'll just admit, to know me IRL is to know the joy that I'll die on my principles. You either love me for this or hate me for this.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
Once we're at the point of contracts, whether people are verbally trustworthy or not is irrelevant.

The whole point of a contract is to make it possible to make deals between people who are untrustworthy. It's the only reason why they exist at all.
I will concede this point and say the Kings org honored their contract and then rewarded a guy who felt he deserved more. And somehow the Kings still come out the bad guy.
 
In the Kings case the Bee was cut to shreds so most of our media is Fan media and their agenda/interest in all of this is getting the players to like them, followed by the coach, if they're lucky, so they can get to feel special (and some are malignant narcissists who like to be on screen/hear their voice, etc).

They dislike ownership because a) they control the purse strings and it's cool to hate people with more money than you (hey, I do it too if you follow me on twitter!) and b) it appears that ownership doesn't treat them the way celebrity journos get treated (and yes, that includes the fact this front office/ownership group does not leak).
Oof, that's even worse, local media hates ownership for even more of a petty reason. Not even getting anything out of it! How pathetic!!!
 
For as long as I can remember Sacramento media by and large (Ailene Voisin was a notable exception) have been more than happy to reheat and re-serve whatever purple-colored narrative that the Kings front office wants to sell them. I'm 98% certain that 29 other franchises would have signed Mike Brown to that same extension after the job he did in his first two seasons and the reactions we're getting from other NBA coaches are entirely reasonable reactions to have outside of the Sacramento bubble. Historically, Kings fans have their own logic about these things. For example, it's tough to explain now, but there was only a tepid level of unrest in Sacramento when Rick Adelman wasn't re-signed in 2006. A sizable chunk of fans had bought into the "we can do better" narrative.

I don't think the disconnect between Kings fan logic on this Mike Brown issue and pretty much everyone else in the NBA orbit is because everyone else is clueless, let me put it that way. This might sound like a put-down but I don't intend it that way. Sacramento is a one team market forever in the shadow of some very very big intra-state rivalries which extend beyond sports. The level of hyper-focus, the psychic weight imparted by how well the team is playing at any given moment, and the unique penchant for second, triple, and quadruple guessing which flow out of this fanbase all evince to me a highly irregular fan ecosystem which exists in very few other places that I've encountered. That level of passion can be very uplifting but it does come with a dark side.

There are structural roster problems which have not gone away with this coaching change and will continue to crop up throughout this season if Monte isn't able to make any trade deadline moves. Any way you slice it, 6 games is too small of a sample to draw sweeping conclusions about the next 40 games. As for "heart" and "fight" or whatever other cliches folks want to credit to Coach Christie, it was mostly this same group of players who went 5-1 in OT games last season and 4-1 in OT games the year before that. And I don't think there's any question that the ego-management part of this job got a lot tougher with Fox quite visibly looking toward his next paycheck, Monk looking to solidify his on-court role now that his long-term future is decided, DeRozan bringing in his All-Star / All-NBA pedigree and hoping for a long playoff run to ossify that Hall of Fame resume, and Keegan trying to keep pace with what's expected from a top 5 pick.

Yes there were apparent cracks in the foundation which are not easy to explain away. Why did Mike Brown stop calling quick timeouts? Why did he stop high fiving players on the sideline as they came out of the game? Why did he appear to come down harder on some player mistakes than others? Was there playful pushback from the players toward his "give me just a little bit more" coaching ethos or had that pushback turned in a more sinister direction? I've been telling people for the last 20 years that Doug Christie was my favorite Kings player so I'd love to join in the lovefest being showered upon him right now but I think he's mostly benefitting from the glow-up of being "not that guy". Mike Brown had simply become the most convenient scapegoat for a group which was not winning and had lost their "us against the world" swagger which is typically what has carried this franchise through similar streaks in the past.

Given all of the reasons I listed above for why none of this team's on-the-court leaders would be willing to take on the burden of personal responsibility this time, it was just a perfect storm of a notoriously impatient owner putting the heat on his front office to do something about all of this right now and the financial calamity of this current CBA tying the front office's hands (along with most other franchises) and making it very difficult to accomplish that directive. The real wizard behind the curtain of Mike Brown's firing here is all of the chatter about other teams wanting to swipe Fox away from us if we don't transform into a contender in the next 3 weeks. Which is ironic because those same talking heads who stoked the flames of Fox thievery which got Mike Brown fired now get to clap back at his firing as more evidence that Sacramento is a disaster which Fox needs to escape from ASAP. See how this works?

Balancing all of this out I see two potential silver linings: (1) Getting Devin Carter healthy was a big plus for Doug Christie's rotations -- as the only other defensive wing on this roster besides Keon and Keegan, the rotations never quite made sense in the early part of this season without him. His activity level on defense and on the boards is already paying dividends even if on offense he's quite clearly a rookie and will need time to grow into the pace of the NBA game and the intricacies of how to find angles and create space. (2) Regardless of the circumstances which led to Coach Christie taking the reins, his stint on the bench started before Mike Brown was hired so any immediate loss of continuity has been mitigated. And NBA players throughout time immemorial have responded better to coaching which comes from former NBA players, especially when those players were parts of winning teams in the past. The timing couldn't have worked out better with Doug taking over just as defensive glue-guy Devin Carter was ready to join the rotation. Now Doug's reputation as a player and Devin's skillset get to reinforce each other on a team which was absolutely desperate for another long-limbed mobile wing who can help to control the 3pt line.

We'll see what happens when this season ends... If Doug is out and someone from outside the organization comes in looking to impart their own personal coaching philosophies (which of course they would) then I would expect a significant dismantling to follow in the near future. A lot is riding on this current swell developing into a tide and sustaining itself for the next 40+ games.
You get a rec for "ossify." One thing to keep in mind with respect to Sacramento as the home for the Kings is that I doubt that the franchise can actually afford a Fox supermax contract of $345 million. The front office has to have one eye on the exit strategies right now, no matter that he is one of the top two players on the team and by far the leading scorer. The team is currently valued at $3.7 billion, so that means that 9.3% of the entire franchise market cap would be committed to a single player.
 
Nuggets down 12 with 2 to play. Kings picked up on GS, LAL, DEN and PHX.

All of a sudden stealing that MIA win was huge
Huge.

Think back to just a two weeks ago. 13-18, losing streak, we could easily be sitting at 14-23, with morale in the toilet. Basically giving up on the season.

Instead, we have sky high morale, and feel like we are right back in the playoff hunt.

The NBA is a a long season but it's incredible how it can come down to a six game stretch here or there.
 
We shall see if it’s Doug or Keon that is the difference maker. With Doug coaching and Keon not starting we lost to the Lakers and barely beat the Dallas G league team. We then won four in a row with Keon starting.

When Fox comes back we shall see who gets sent to the bench unit as we have too many guards. The roster construction is poor and I’m guessing Keon gets sent to the bench.
 
Huge.

Think back to just a two weeks ago. 13-18, losing streak, we could easily be sitting at 14-23, with morale in the toilet. Basically giving up on the season.

Instead, we have sky high morale, and feel like we are right back in the playoff hunt.

The NBA is a a long season but it's incredible how it can come down to a six game stretch here or there.
damn, that lasagna does look good. If only I wasn’t on a low carb diet. Gotta get down under 200 pounds.

And yes, it should be a pretty exciting race to the playoffs. I’ve been watching team foul calls, Warriors got squat today against Heat, while it seems like we’re getting called closer.
 
I will concede this point and say the Kings org honored their contract and then rewarded a guy who felt he deserved more. And somehow the Kings still come out the bad guy.
As far as I know, Brown also honored his contract. I'm assuming his contract didn't preclude him from negotiating a new contract, (that would seem to be a silly clause)

It's not possible to enforce a contract in the court of public opinion, so I don't think we can expect consistent verdicts. That's a corollary to the reason why people write real contracts for things that are important
 
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When the hell is the last time we swept the Heat btw? Lmao sheesh
It seems like it would have been quite a while ago, I know, but surprisingly not.

The KINGS swept Miami for two consecutive seasons in 2017/18 and 2018/2019.

This time around marks the 3rd time in the past 8 seasons.
 
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damn, that lasagna does look good. If only I wasn’t on a low carb diet. Gotta get down under 200 pounds.

And yes, it should be a pretty exciting race to the playoffs. I’ve been watching team foul calls, Warriors got squat today against Heat, while it seems like we’re getting called closer.
I have discovered buckwheat noodles as a healthier option, not totally low carb, but pretty good. Keto six days, lasagna all day one day?
 
love it. Heat just smacked the Warriors one night after a double overtime loss. Suns also lost. We are right back in it.
Nuggets down 12 with 2 to play. Kings picked up on GS, LAL, DEN and PHX.

All of a sudden stealing that MIA win was huge
I’m so pleased to see GSW falling back to Earth. Their 12-3 start was especially eye rolling, as was Buddy Hield’s early season performances. I suspected that the real Buddy would eventually emerge, and that the Warriors would prove to be a fugazi. So far, so good.

What makes it even sweeter is our KINGS finally coming to life at the same time.
 
I’m so pleased to see GSW falling back to Earth. Their 12-3 start was especially eye rolling, as was Buddy Hield’s early season performances. I suspected that the real Buddy would eventually emerge, and that the Warriors would prove to be a fugazi. So far, so good.

What makes it even sweeter is our KINGS finally coming to life at the same time.
Warriors started out 6-2 last year y hey get out to quick starts I guess
 
I’m assuming Fox will be back for the BOS game so it will be really interesting to see what the starting lineup is and how the minutes will be distributed. This could be a huge decision for Christie.

The obvious decision is to move Monk back to the bench and to start Ellis, but how does that change/message go over with Monk?

As for what I would do, I’d probably go with a rotation of…

PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Ellis (28) / Monk (14) / Carter (6)
SF - DeRozan (26) / Huerter (14) / Carter (8)
PF - Murray (30) / Lyles (14) / DeRozan (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / Len (10) / Lyles (4)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
DeRozan = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
Ellis = 28 min
Monk = 28 min
Lyles = 18 min
Carter = 14 min
Huerter = 14 min
Len = 10 min

Obviously if Huerter is traded for more frontcourt help, that helps us add some more size into the rotation, but I’m probably going with that distribution until a trade is made.

I can also see Carter chip away at the minutes allocated to Monk and Ellis once he gets into game shape and is showing he can be an impact player.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
As far as I know, Brown also honored his contract. I'm assuming his contract didn't preclude him from negotiating a new contract, (that would seem to be a silly clause)

It's not possible to enforce a contract in the court of public opinion, so I don't think we can expect consistent verdicts. That's a corollary to the reason why people write real contracts for things that are important
He took it to the media to renegotiate a year early and was doing this in the middle of last season as the team was underperforming the year prior.

You could make the argument that he already knew he was losing the team. It's possible he saw this as a way of securing his standing in the locker room, the end result was things went from going downhill to snowballing downhill.

I really liked Brown but this 100% soured me on him. My point here is that the Kings were doing right by the guy and he still gets paid, and yet he's being painted as a victim in all of this despite the fact he did a lot to bring on his own firing both as a coach and as a person who strong armed the team into an extension during what they felt was still a time of uncertainty. The team was right to resist. He goes down as a one season wonder.
 
He took it to the media to renegotiate a year early and was doing this in the middle of last season as the team was underperforming the year prior.

You could make the argument that he already knew he was losing the team. It's possible he saw this as a way of securing his standing in the locker room, the end result was things went from going downhill to snowballing downhill.

I really liked Brown but this 100% soured me on him. My point here is that the Kings were doing right by the guy and he still gets paid, and yet he's being painted as a victim in all of this despite the fact he did a lot to bring on his own firing both as a coach and as a person who strong armed the team into an extension during what they felt was still a time of uncertainty. The team was right to resist. He goes down as a one season wonder.
I think our disagreement comes down to what the expectations are for behavior for employers and employees . When you use the phrase "doing right by" you seem to have the model that employers employ people from a sense of beneficence, that they are father figures who are responsible for shepherding their employees to prosperity. Some employees could be looking for that; maybe they don't view themselves as having any individual leverage; or they have actual daddy issues and want to relate to their organization in that way. (maybe these employees would be better served by a union)

My way of looking at it is that the employee and employer are equals morally, and the specifics of the relationship are determined by negotiation and leverage. I don't see anything morally wrong with employees using maximum leverage for negotiation. The head coach role is probably more of a public relations job than an technical X's and O's job, so of course Brown is going to use public opinion as leverage. The reason he got the job in the first place is because he's good at doing that. (This is also why JJ Reddick got the Lakers head coaching job with a successful podcast and no professional coaching experience)

I just don't think the public should be scandalized by contract negotiation tactics. The answer is education, not stigma.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
When you use the phrase "doing right by" you seem to have the model that employers employ people from a sense of beneficence, that they are father figures who are responsible for shepherding their employees to prosperity.
Going to stop you right here and just say that nothing could be further from the truth. I may come from a family of entrepreneurs and am very proud of their contributions to Sacramento but I am a union man through and through. And I believe that the wealthy (particularly the ultra-wealthy) have a duty beyond their own self-interest. Which is why I draw the line when we start talking about people who are setting up generational wealth and not people trying to put food on their tables.

Mike Brown is not in my class. He had a great contract, that reflected his career - one that had a lot worth celebrating and many, many red flags.

I'm just going to stop there though because I don't want to drag him through the mud. A lot of people who are mad at the Kings today were mad at the Kings when they hired him. I celebrated the hire. I am grateful for what he did. But he played us.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
I appreciate your commitment to a principle and I do recall now that this was an issue for you at the time. Let me throw out some numbers though just for fun to see if I might cast a small seed of doubt on that. The majority owner of the Sacramento Kings is a billionaire. This team is an investment for him, not a hobby -- and it's an absurdly profitable one which has doubled in value in less than 5 years.

The current mid-level exception in the NBA (generally an acceptable contract for a journeyman veteran role-player) is almost $13 million per season with max level players now making as much as $60 million per year as of 2024. By the end of the decade these numbers are going to be a lot bigger. The contract Mike Brown signed was paying him $4 million per season and the raise he asked for (and got) increased that to $8.5 million per year.

If I were in his situation, I would be happy to think of that $4.5 million raise as an end of the year bonus for being voted the best in the league at my job. It's still a mere pittance compared to what most of the players I was hired to coach are going to be making and it's less than 1/10th of 1/10th of what my employer has made in the last 5 years for doing absolutely nothing at all. There's something to be said for knowing your worth. Is it gauche to ask for it? I used to think so. Age and experience have changed my mind about that.

Now I can understand if you say that your word is your word in any and all circumstances but it seems to me that there's a disconnect in there somewhere between "we love you, thank you for rescuing our franchise from irrelevance" and "no we don't want to give you an extra $4.5 million this year because you signed on the dotted line already and business is business." With the kind of net worth appreciation that NBA owners are seeing, rewarding the people who do right by you -- the very people driving your business -- should be automatic. Mike Brown shouldn't even have to ask -- the night after the Kings wrecked Golden State in the play-in game last year that contract extension should have already been on Mike Brown's desk. Just my opinion.

All of this is irrelevant now though.
You know, I just want To say I appreciate your posts. I don’t always agree with everything, but I agree with most, but that’s not the biggest reason. Just some well done reasoning most of, if not all of the time.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I don't think he's a lamb among wolves. I think his job was and is much more secure than Brown's regardless of the quick turnaround under Christie.
I wasn't talking about the wolves as any Kings' front office wolves. I'm talking about other GMs around the league. When your team sucks and pressure abounds to make a change, other GMs will pounce to make very opportunistic deals for themselves. They smell lamb's blood and they mean to eat.
 
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