[NBA] The Finals

[pdxKingsFan]

This play right here and now is antithesis to what you just listed - think Karl Malone. 14 all nba teams -- 14!!! No way in fk Doncic has that longevity or value., and Malone never sniffed max contracts.......any GM willing to give that is setting his club up failure. Doncic is already getting injured in his prime 24/25 yro, how is he supposed to be worth top player value.

Karl Malone played in an era where contracts were negotiated before there were max deals.

Luka is getting the max. Jalen Brown got the supermax when everyone said he was barely even Robin to Tatum's Batman and they would have to give Tatum the supermax this coming year.

Luka getting the max, which based on his achievements/awards is the supermax. It's not a negotiation, it's a formula.

 

[ppine]

The Celtics are a great defensive team. They run the floor and have an i impressive bench. They rely on the 3 more than almost any other team. They don't turn the ball over and a great passing team. Everything you want in a championship team. It took them awhile to find all of the pieces to fit their style. Their coaching is superior. They are like a modern version of the old Celtics.

 

[NewArena]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1801102787742240842

My main issue with Luka is the fact that he can’t guard anybody. Doesn’t even try

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Almost time for the Celtics to gift the Mavs a set of broomies.

Let's GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

 

[Tetsujin]

PJ turning back into Hornets PJ before our eyes

 

[Tetsujin]

Luka really shooting free throws like a King tho lol

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The Mavericks lost the first three games of the series by a total of 32 points. They're currently up by 26, which means if they win the second half by at least 8 additional points, they will be up in total points by at least 2, and could conceivably lose the series 4-1 games but outscore their opponent.

The last team to outscore their opponent in a 4-1 playoff series loss? The 2004 Mavericks, who lost their first-round playoff series while outscoring their opponent by 7 points overall. Their opponent? The Kings.

 

[SLAB]

Three more games just like that, Mavs. Totally easy and do-able.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The Mavericks lost the first three games of the series by a total of 32 points. They're currently up by 26, which means if they win the second half by at least 8 additional points, they will be up in total points by at least 2, and could conceivably lose the series 4-1 games but outscore their opponent.

The last team to outscore their opponent in a 4-1 playoff series loss? The 2004 Mavericks, who lost their first-round playoff series while outscoring their opponent by 7 points overall. Their opponent? The Kings.

Dallas with some garbage-ridden garbage time, but they lead the series by 6 overall points, so the dream is alive!

 

[coolhandluke]

Great performance from the Mavs. Celtics had no answers.

 

[coolhandluke]

For those keeping track, "loser" Luka further extended his lead in points, rebounds, assists, and steals in this postseason over the rest of the NBA. He's playing banged up and still there's no player close to him.

 

[ick300]

Dallas with some garbage-ridden garbage time, but they lead the series by 6 overall points, so the dream is alive!

Your scenario is up and runnig
And the sad thing is if they managed to close the second or the third game where they were at least equal we were going to have much different finals ...

 

[Kingz19]

That sucks. I’m ready for that offseason to begin

These playoffs have been probably the weakest in recent memory.

 

[kingsboi]

looks like Boston wants to win the ship for their home fans

 

[iowamcnabb]

Exum off the bench could be a good get for us next year potentially.

I wonder if PJ Washington thinks the Mavs won tonight because as he knows all too well, follow the money am I right?

 

[SLAB]

For those keeping track, "loser" Luka further extended his lead in points, rebounds, assists, and steals in this postseason over the rest of the NBA. He's playing banged up and still there's no player close to him.

He’s ball dominant, complains a lot, no one will ever want to play with him, and are super maxes really ever worth it though? I think we dodgers a bullet tbh.

 

[Padrino]

For those keeping track, "loser" Luka further extended his lead in points, rebounds, assists, and steals in this postseason over the rest of the NBA. He's playing banged up and still there's no player close to him.

This is a weird point to trumpet. There are only two teams left in these playoffs, so of course Luka extended his lead in the major counting stats over the likes of other stars who are no longer competing in the postseason.

Luka is an extreme offensive talent, but there are enough deficiencies in his game to make one wonder if he has what it takes to get over the hump. There's a reason he draws comparisons to James Harden, who likewise was an extreme offensive talent during his prime with enough deficiencies in his game to make one wonder if he had what it took to get over the hump.

If the insinuation here is that the Kings would be better off having drafted Luka than having not drafted him, then yeah, sure, I don't think many would dispute such a contention. But in such a scenario, everybody would still be complaining about how endlessly Luka barks at the refs, how little focus he has on the defensive end, how he has a habit of icing out his teammates, and how regularly out of shape he is. There would probably be a healthy contingent of Kings fans that questioned whether or not Luka impacted winning in a meaningful way, and some who would assert that the Kings' second-best player was their real best player, and the rest of us would be able to see it if only Luka wasn't so ball dominant.

In other words, Luka is a classically divisive superstar who has enormous talent (on one side of the ball) but isn't necessarily easy to root for because he hasn't yet discovered the importance of accountability for his own weaknesses.

 

[Tetsujin]

For those keeping track, "loser" Luka further extended his lead in points, rebounds, assists, and steals in this postseason over the rest of the NBA. He's playing banged up and still there's no player close to him.

If I’m Joey Chestnut and I get three pies and everyone else only gets like one pie, I sure as hell should have eaten more pie than everyone else.

 

[Tetsujin]

Great performance from the Mavs. Celtics had no answers.

Celtics were just missing everything. Not really sure it was a matter of questions and answers. Every single guy on their roster couldn’t get a boulder into the ocean even on a sinking ship.

 

[coolhandluke]

This is a weird point to trumpet. There are only two teams left in these playoffs, so of course Luka extended his lead in the major counting stats over the likes of other stars who are no longer competing in the postseason.

Luka is an extreme offensive talent, but there are enough deficiencies in his game to make one wonder if he has what it takes to get over the hump. There's a reason he draws comparisons to James Harden, who likewise was an extreme offensive talent during his prime with enough deficiencies in his game to make one wonder if he had what it took to get over the hump.

If the insinuation here is that the Kings would be better off having drafted Luka than having not drafted him, then yeah, sure, I don't think many would dispute such a contention. But in such a scenario, everybody would still be complaining about how endlessly Luka barks at the refs, how little focus he has on the defensive end, how he has a habit of icing out his teammates, and how regularly out of shape he is. There would probably be a healthy contingent of Kings fans that questioned whether or not Luka impacted winning in a meaningful way, and some who would assert that the Kings' second-best player was their real best player, and the rest of us would be able to see it if only Luka wasn't so ball dominant.

In other words, Luka is a classically divisive superstar who has enormous talent (on one side of the ball) but isn't necessarily easy to root for because he hasn't yet discovered the importance of accountability for his own weaknesses.

Of course, if someone stays alive for more games, they can score more points. That's the point. You reach the top because no one could keep up with you. It doesn't mean there aren't others that are more talented than you.

How come Luka still has to "get over the hump" when he dragged the Mavs, who were the underdogs throughout the playoffs, to the NBA Finals? Getting to the NBA Finals from the brutal Western Conference is not chopped liver. It's a great achievement any way you slice it. This is the first year of this iteration of the Mavs. Lively is a rookie. PJ and Gafford got there only at the trade deadline. Can anyone make a case that the Mavs are a championship caliber team right now and they're underperforming due to Luka?

Luka is not the one stopping the Mavs from winning a championship. He is the main reason for the Mavs being in a position to compete for one. Every HOF player in NBA history is flawed. We are so busy looking for weaknesses in the current generation that we fail to appreciate the greatness that's there. Lest we forget, Luka is doing all this when he's injured. That's heart.

Also, it's high time Kings fans stop obsessing over missing out on Luka and try to diminish his achievements in order to feel better. I don't care what team Luka plays for. I'm a basketball fan first. We have a good team on our hands and it's fruitless to waste time on what ifs. It's ancient history as far as I'm concerned.

 

[coolhandluke]

If I’m Joey Chestnut and I get three pies and everyone else only gets like one pie, I sure as hell should have eaten more pie than everyone else.

You have to first finish eating one pie before you can eat three pies.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Of course, if someone stays alive for more games, they can score more points. That's the point. You reach the top because no one could keep up with you. It doesn't mean there aren't others that are more talented than you.

How come Luka still has to "get over the hump" when he dragged the Mavs, who were the underdogs throughout the playoffs, to the NBA Finals? Getting to the NBA Finals from the brutal Western Conference is not chopped liver. It's a great achievement any way you slice it. This is the first year of this iteration of the Mavs. Lively is a rookie. PJ and Gafford got there only at the trade deadline. Can anyone make a case that the Mavs are a championship caliber team right now and they're underperforming due to Luka?

Luka is not the one stopping the Mavs from winning a championship. He is the main reason for the Mavs being in a position to compete for one. Every HOF player in NBA history is flawed. We are so busy looking for weaknesses in the current generation that we fail to appreciate the greatness that's there. Lest we forget, Luka is doing all this when he's injured. That's heart.

Also, it's high time Kings fans stop obsessing over missing out on Luka and try to diminish his achievements in order to feel better. I don't care what team Luka plays for. I'm a basketball fan first. We have a good team on our hands and it's fruitless to waste time on what ifs. It's ancient history as far as I'm concerned.

The ones that need to get over a hump, are Fox and Sabonis. They haven't won a single playoff series

 

[Padrino]

Of course, if someone stays alive for more games, they can score more points. That's the point. You reach the top because no one could keep up with you. It doesn't mean there aren't others that are more talented than you.

How come Luka still has to "get over the hump" when he dragged the Mavs, who were the underdogs throughout the playoffs, to the NBA Finals? Getting to the NBA Finals from the brutal Western Conference is not chopped liver. It's a great achievement any way you slice it. This is the first year of this iteration of the Mavs. Lively is a rookie. PJ and Gafford got there only at the trade deadline. Can anyone make a case that the Mavs are a championship caliber team right now and they're underperforming due to Luka?

Luka is not the one stopping the Mavs from winning a championship. He is the main reason for the Mavs being in a position to compete for one. Every HOF player in NBA history is flawed. We are so busy looking for weaknesses in the current generation that we fail to appreciate the greatness that's there. Lest we forget, Luka is doing all this when he's injured. That's heart.

Also, it's high time Kings fans stop obsessing over missing out on Luka and try to diminish his achievements in order to feel better. I don't care what team Luka plays for. I'm a basketball fan first. We have a good team on our hands and it's fruitless to waste time on what ifs. It's ancient history as far as I'm concerned.

...because he does? He's an amazing talent. He's in the midst of what is already a Hall of Fame career. But every former player who made it to the Hall without winning a championship will tell you that they'd trade all the other accolades for a title. And any Kings fan will tell you that you need to strike when given the opportunity, because who knows what injury or bad luck or misfortune of timing may befall you en route to a disappointing follow-up campaign? And who knows if the Mavericks will reach this pinnacle again? Parity around the league and the difficulty level out West have made it a much steeper climb to reach the mountaintop in successive seasons. Just ask Denver. And while Luka has not been the Mavs' only problem in these Finals, his matador defense and his lack of fourth quarter energy due to poor conditioning and his endless barking at the officials most assuredly helped put his team in the 0-3 hole they found themselves in before finding the gumption to dominate in a near-meaningless game 4. There's a reason Boston felt comfortable taking their foot off the gas pedal last night. It's always sweeter to win a championship in front of your own fans.

For the record, I'm not among those who are rooting for Luka to fail as a coping mechanism because the Kings failed to draft him. I don't find him easy to root for, but that's mostly because I'm not fan of heliocentrism in the modern NBA, and I think he's someone for whom the game comes so easy that he hasn't yet discovered the focus necessary to be in peak conditioning every season and to push through officiating frustration and to be something less than a liability on the defensive end. I would hope that the likelihood of losing these Finals will be the motivation he needs to be not just the most talented player on the floor, but the undisputed best in the league. He's not there yet.

 

[ockingsfan]

Celtics were just missing everything. Not really sure it was a matter of questions and answers. Every single guy on their roster couldn’t get a boulder into the ocean even on a sinking ship.

I didn't watch the game (thank goodness), but watching the "highlights" from the game, it didn't even seem that the Celtics were trying.

The way they just threw up shot after shot without much focus or follow through on the release, it almost looked like they just threw this game on purpose. We will see come the next game, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics win by double digits at home to take the chip.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I didn't watch the game (thank goodness), but watching the "highlights" from the game, it didn't even seem that the Celtics were trying.

The way they just threw up shot after shot without much focus or follow through on the release, it almost looked like they just threw this game on purpose. We will see come the next game, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Celtics win by double digits at home to take the chip.

If they don't win the next one, the pressure will swing back to them

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If the insinuation here is that the Kings would be better off having drafted Luka than having not drafted him, then yeah, sure, I don't think many would dispute such a contention. But in such a scenario, everybody would still be complaining about how endlessly Luka barks at the refs, how little focus he has on the defensive end, how he has a habit of icing out his teammates, and how regularly out of shape he is. There would probably be a healthy contingent of Kings fans that questioned whether or not Luka impacted winning in a meaningful way, and some who would assert that the Kings' second-best player was their real best player, and the rest of us would be able to see it if only Luka wasn't so ball dominant.

In other words, Luka is a classically divisive superstar who has enormous talent (on one side of the ball) but isn't necessarily easy to root for because he hasn't yet discovered the importance of accountability for his own weaknesses.

I have no doubt the Kings would probably have enjoyed more success than the Mavericks had if we drafted Luka but also no doubt we'd have topped out as a perennial WCF or destroyed in the Finals team if we drafted Luka.

Also have no doubt that Luka's shortcomings would entirely be branded as a function of playing in Sacramento because all Sacramento's stars have been whiney malcontents that don't play defense and cry to refs, so I'm just glad that we don't have to suffer that slander even if we've only enjoyed two out of 6 seasons having better records than the team that did draft Luka. So far.

Also pretty sure they will have a very nasty divorce which I will happily not be a part of because I got this out of my system years ago.

 

[coolhandluke]

...because he does? He's an amazing talent. He's in the midst of what is already a Hall of Fame career. But every former player who made it to the Hall without winning a championship will tell you that they'd trade all the other accolades for a title.

Can we have some context, please? How many 25-years old have led their team to the NBA Finals in all of NBA history? He is entering the prime of his career, he is not retiring tomorrow. Why are we so quick to judge him so early in his career? It took MJ seven years to win his first title but Luka is underachieving because he is not winning a title in his sixth year? It's an unreasonable expectation. It takes a great team to win the title and Luka is what makes that Mavs team special. Luka's comp has always been HOF players like Magic because he has set such high standards due to his stellar play. It's premature to judge him for lack of rings so early in his career. A tree doesn't grow in one day.

I would hope that the likelihood of losing these Finals will be the motivation he needs to be not just the most talented player on the floor, but the undisputed best in the league. He's not there yet.

I hope so too. But he is already undisputed Top 3 in the league, which is nothing to scoff about. This is the first time Mavs have surrounded him with good talent and he took them to the NBA Finals. Let's not forget that he dragged a mediocre Mavs team to the WC Finals earlier in his career. He has shined in both the regular season and playoffs. Luka averages close to a thirty point triple double but I guess he is not good enough because he makes it look easy.

 

[Warhawk]

Can we have some context, please? How many 25-years old have led their team to the NBA Finals in all of NBA history? He is entering the prime of his career, he is not retiring tomorrow. Why are we so quick to judge him so early in his career? It took MJ seven years to win his first title but Luka is underachieving because he is not winning a title in his sixth year? It's an unreasonable expectation. It takes a great team to win the title and Luka is what makes that Mavs team special. Luka's comp has always been HOF players like Magic because he has set such high standards due to his stellar play. It's premature to judge him for lack of rings so early in his career. A tree doesn't grow in one day.

I hope so too. But he is already undisputed Top 3 in the league, which is nothing to scoff about. This is the first time Mavs have surrounded him with good talent and he took them to the NBA Finals. Let's not forget that he dragged a mediocre Mavs team to the WC Finals earlier in his career. He has shined in both the regular season and playoffs. Luka averages close to a thirty point triple double but I guess he is not good enough because he makes it look easy.

Luka's draft comp was apparently:

Toni Kukoc/Hedo Turkoglu
Luka Doncic - NBADraft.net

Ricky Rubio with a dash of Manu Ginobili
Pro Comparisons for Every Projected 2018 NBA Draft Lottery Pick | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

Brandon Roy/Manu Ginobili
Luka Doncic 2018 NBA Draft: Scouting Report for Dallas Mavericks' Pick | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

SHADES OF: James Harden, Jumbo Manu Ginobili, Tyreke Evans
The Ringer's 2018 NBA Draft Guide

Ben Simmons/Lonzo Ball
Luka Doncic: 2018 NBA draft scouting report, highlights - Sports Illustrated

Those are just the first handful that came up with a google search. Maybe there's others I haven't seen? In any case, not exactly "Magic"-type material in the comps....

And look, I wanted us to draft him at the time. He's an incredible offensive talent (when he's not laying on the floor whining at the refs watching everyone else run back on defense). But let's be real about the comps.

 

[coolhandluke]

Luka's draft comp was apparently:

Toni Kukoc/Hedo Turkoglu
Luka Doncic - NBADraft.net

Ricky Rubio with a dash of Manu Ginobili
Pro Comparisons for Every Projected 2018 NBA Draft Lottery Pick | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

Brandon Roy/Manu Ginobili
Luka Doncic 2018 NBA Draft: Scouting Report for Dallas Mavericks' Pick | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report

SHADES OF: James Harden, Jumbo Manu Ginobili, Tyreke Evans
The Ringer's 2018 NBA Draft Guide

Ben Simmons/Lonzo Ball
Luka Doncic: 2018 NBA draft scouting report, highlights - Sports Illustrated

Those are just the first handful that came up with a google search. Maybe there's others I haven't seen? In any case, not exactly "Magic"-type material in the comps....

And look, I wanted us to draft him at the time. He's an incredible offensive talent (when he's not laying on the floor whining at the refs watching everyone else run back on defense). But let's be real about the comps.

Why are we bringing up Luka's draft day comps, all of which were woefully wrong even at that time? Some people were comparing him to Ricky Rubio. In this very forum, people were mocked for calling Luka a "generational talent" on draft day. The questions asked were was he "generational" or "transcendent"? We have a better idea now. It's not Luka's fault that only few people paid enough attention to see how he could be special.

Anyway, I'm talking about today. People are comparing him to Harden when he is more close to Magic. Luka raises his game in the playoffs and elevates his teammates, none of which Harden is known for.

In any case, if Luka is a loser, I'll be interested in knowing what people have to say about Fox and Webber. Can we get some perspective here, please?

 

[ppine]

The Celtics appeared to be dominant and even somewhat invincible for the first 3 games. What happened? Did they start reading their press clippings? They did just get mentally worn out? Dallas displayed some new found intensity. Where was it the first three games?
Something does not add up. I think pro sports are mostly on the level, buy game 4 makes me wonder.