Really don’t know what the true story is here. Is it Sasha needing to put his big boy pants on and go compete or is it the organization realizing he’s a poor fit? He would t be the first Euro player to flame out and won’t be the last. Maybe there is a better situation in the NBA where he can fit in and show out
Why Isn't Sasha Playing?
- Thread starter Kraft
- Start date
No, and I didn't with Sasha. Sasha played 12 mpg on average and in aggregate put up realistic numbers not too dissimilar to all the other F's on the roster which is likely a good reason to believe there was enough floor time and evidence to suggest they were somewhat reliable. Players routinely put up 21 and 9. 48, 48, and 48? Obviously not. Hence why I said, "Whether or not those statistics prove out fully with more minutes or not, when on the floor, that WAS your per minute productivity on average." Weighing common sense with outcome is key. It still doesn't change the fact though, that was the productivity in that time you would have put up. It's significance however is another question.
He got a contract in line with a decent bench player in the league. They went all out to bring him here on the hopes he could outplay his contract but in the end it wasn’t a big investment. I doubt brown ever went over there promising anything. That’s just not the way he ever talks about playing time.
In the sample you gave perhaps, and no player plays 48 minutes, but that was certainly the literal most extreme example of extrapolation possible. Most players tend to balance out over more time and remain in some sort of consistent area in both per 36 or 48 stats. Take Demarcus Cousins for example, his last year in Denver he put up around 28 and 18 per 48 while playing less than 15 mpg. That's right in the neighborhood of most of his seasons played in per 48 when playing starters minutes and in terms of PPG actually under many of his seasons per 48. That clearly shows a fairly consistent production level while on the floor and this is a pure productivity stat after all. Obviously Sasha has very little games played in a single season so you can't really guess what that would mean going forward, but per minute, he was more productive than most of the Kings options in the time he played. That's fact.
I don't disagree, and so far we haven't heard anything about Brown in all of this. I mean, it is a little odd this would come out shortly after his extension but who knows. I would say from what things looked like, it certainly seemed like the Kings selling Sasha on coming over, not the other way around.
The way you strawmanned per-minute stats by using an extremely small sample size was what tipped me off to your inability to be convinced. I'm not sure it has anything to do with your career.
By the way, there are no stats that are robust to extremely small sample sizes.
For the non-statisticians in the room who might be interested, per-minute stats (or, better, per-possession stats) are typically used to allow better comparisons between players who receive different amounts of playing time than per-game stats. There are obvious reasons for this. There are, of course, caveats to per-minute stats just as there are to any other measures. Outside of small-sample size issues, per-minute stats should probably not be used to compare players who have extreme differences in minutes per game, because a player who plays fewer minutes may not have the stamina to keep up his per-minute numbers with a lot more court time. Additionally, some players may have different roles - a guy who plays exclusively off the bench will likely be faced with better defense (and better offensive companions leading to lower usage) if he moves to the starting lineup - so comparing players with different roles can also lead one to making some bad inferences (though this caveat is not restricted to per-minute stats). But so long as one understands the context, per-minute stats are a perfectly reasonable and altogether not foolish way of looking at production.
By the way, there are no stats that are robust to extremely small sample sizes.
For the non-statisticians in the room who might be interested, per-minute stats (or, better, per-possession stats) are typically used to allow better comparisons between players who receive different amounts of playing time than per-game stats. There are obvious reasons for this. There are, of course, caveats to per-minute stats just as there are to any other measures. Outside of small-sample size issues, per-minute stats should probably not be used to compare players who have extreme differences in minutes per game, because a player who plays fewer minutes may not have the stamina to keep up his per-minute numbers with a lot more court time. Additionally, some players may have different roles - a guy who plays exclusively off the bench will likely be faced with better defense (and better offensive companions leading to lower usage) if he moves to the starting lineup - so comparing players with different roles can also lead one to making some bad inferences (though this caveat is not restricted to per-minute stats). But so long as one understands the context, per-minute stats are a perfectly reasonable and altogether not foolish way of looking at production.
For those of you non-stats folks, the per 48 metric exasperates the small sample size in the worst way. There is no stat worse for small sample sizes as shown by my example. But hey I only have been running statistics on everything from sports to finance and been wildly successful. But hey capt fact you have the right to be wrong.
Right. As long as the sample sizes aren't prohibitively low, per minute stats can be useful as long as the larger context is considered.
And I'd argue that they are especially useful when comparing players with relatively similar roles whose average mpg differs, but not by a huge amount.
Where they are maybe the least useful is a direct projection of a 10 mpg player to starter's minutes. A big missing bit of context there is that the player in question is very likely playing the majority of his time against opposing second units.
And I'd argue that they are especially useful when comparing players with relatively similar roles whose average mpg differs, but not by a huge amount.
Where they are maybe the least useful is a direct projection of a 10 mpg player to starter's minutes. A big missing bit of context there is that the player in question is very likely playing the majority of his time against opposing second units.
Yep. ALOT changes when a guy playing 15 minutes get bumped to 36. Stamina, playing vs better players, assuming the role stays the same, etc.
It's not predictive at all, but I think it can be a good indicator foe guys who should maybe be playing more. Someone like Richaun Holmes was a great example of a per minute dominator and thrived as a starter
It's not predictive at all, but I think it can be a good indicator foe guys who should maybe be playing more. Someone like Richaun Holmes was a great example of a per minute dominator and thrived as a starter
Exactly, and that's all I was saying in the first place, lol. From my experience 12-15 minute blocks are somewhat reliable in certain areas of pure productivity and stat crunching but yeah, I wouldn't go on to say that Sasha is going to be a 20 and 9 guy in the league. Heck, 20 and 9 per 48 scaled down to actual starters minutes isn't exactly mind blowing as it is.
Capt's explanation was very reasonable. Nobody here knows you personally so flexing your personal life here is a bit out of line. He said explicitly that you can't extrapolate per 48 to compare starters to bench players, but you certainly can use per 48 to compare a guy playing 32 to a guy playing 38 or a guy playing 8 to a guy playing 12. I think the latter is what people are doing with Sasha. There are also splits that showed he was surprisingly effective with Fox and Domas on the floor (which is weird because I'd have expected him to feature when at least one of those guys was off).
All right, folks. We collectively did a REALLY poor job of this, so I'm clearing the slate. There was nothing of particular substance in what I cleared anyhow. Feel free to come to me in PMs if you're unhappy about anything that went on here, including modding. Otherwise, the "knock it off" is now a hard "knock it off". This thread is for discussion of Sasha - the discussion is currently centered around whether or not he may want to leave the Kings.
If the relationship is repairable, I'd still like to see Vezenkov on the Kings next year. I think the injuries and culture shock of transitioning to the NBA held him back from ever getting comfortable. If he's healthy in year 2 he could be a break out candidate as a floor spacer, rebounder, and smart passer who understands winning basketball. He's a good fit for our bench unit if he buys into the role. If he only wants to come back as a starter though or for X-number of guaranteed minutes, I'd look for a way to move him. That kind of attitude is tolerable on a losing team but we have bigger goals now.
Ideal situation if mendable is we promise to move him at the deadline if he comes back and is still unhappy with his role, or failing that not pick up his option. But that would also mean he would be putting in the offseason work right now, and I question if he has already separated from the club and any improvement programs we may have put him on.
He is currently (after this “bomb” news was realised ) back into the Oly’s home court to train and I am sure he is paying attention to what he learned over the year there …
I mean he has the winner mentality for sure and the work discipline to be useful at kings
I also don’t believe he wants to starter but for sure isn’t happy with 10mjn per game , 5 of them in garbage time …
Any winner won’t be happy with that ….
I think he deserves second year in NBA and will be very happy to see him from October back there …
Unfortunately won’t as a King it seems …
I mean he has the winner mentality for sure and the work discipline to be useful at kings
I also don’t believe he wants to starter but for sure isn’t happy with 10mjn per game , 5 of them in garbage time …
Any winner won’t be happy with that ….
I think he deserves second year in NBA and will be very happy to see him from October back there …
Unfortunately won’t as a King it seems …
Plot twist? No news still from Greece, just that they posted this tweet from a "Sacramento Kings reporter". Maybe some news might appear tomorrow since now it's quite late.
In case anyone's wondering how come there are so many replies from Greeks under the tweet, well they are cursing at him (at Cunningham) since it's Olympiakos fans that want him to return to his former club.
In case anyone's wondering how come there are so many replies from Greeks under the tweet, well they are cursing at him (at Cunningham) since it's Olympiakos fans that want him to return to his former club.
Not surprising.
It's unfortunate the politics when players come into the league with fanbases. We saw it with Jimmer and Omri. We're seeing it in a different format with Sasha. I'm glad he'd like to stay in the NBA and if we can find a deal that benefits everyone I'm ok with it. Still would like to see at least half a season because I still liked a lot of what I saw.
It's unfortunate the politics when players come into the league with fanbases. We saw it with Jimmer and Omri. We're seeing it in a different format with Sasha. I'm glad he'd like to stay in the NBA and if we can find a deal that benefits everyone I'm ok with it. Still would like to see at least half a season because I still liked a lot of what I saw.