Kings trade rumor SZN 2023-2024 edition!
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Eh, nah.
They're very good, they're not Boston/LAC/DEN/Minny/OKC good though. Could probably put them in front of CLE and MIL (maybe?), but I wouldn't be surprised at all if either of those teams beat NYK in the playoffs. And I'd be stunned if BOS loses to anybody.
Props to them for going for it, but they better make some magic happen this season:
-All their youth (RJ/Quickley/Grimes) went out in these trades
Hartenstein is a UFA and with Mitch Rob already locked into the next 2 seasons, hard to see them pay him. Dude is a stud (as I said 2 years ago)
-OG is very likely headed for a max type contract.
-Burks a UFA
-Achiuwa is a RFA, with all the GTD money they have on the books, hard to see how the keep him if he gets any sort of starting caliber offer. He's been good for them.
Still, I like Brunson/DDV/OG/Randle/Hart as a core. But we'll see if they can keep any of this depth too.
They're very good, they're not Boston/LAC/DEN/Minny/OKC good though. Could probably put them in front of CLE and MIL (maybe?), but I wouldn't be surprised at all if either of those teams beat NYK in the playoffs. And I'd be stunned if BOS loses to anybody.
Props to them for going for it, but they better make some magic happen this season:
-All their youth (RJ/Quickley/Grimes) went out in these trades
Hartenstein is a UFA and with Mitch Rob already locked into the next 2 seasons, hard to see them pay him. Dude is a stud (as I said 2 years ago)
-OG is very likely headed for a max type contract.
-Burks a UFA
-Achiuwa is a RFA, with all the GTD money they have on the books, hard to see how the keep him if he gets any sort of starting caliber offer. He's been good for them.
Still, I like Brunson/DDV/OG/Randle/Hart as a core. But we'll see if they can keep any of this depth too.
Interesting opinion. I've heard a few different times in the media that originally some of the Kings' players thought they could win without defense. It makes you wonder who those players are and whether they still believe it.
Now I get the feeling that some of these guys are more like adolescents - they know that they should play defense and they even talk about playing it, but deep down they want to try to cheat on the principle of defense and still win, trying to have their cake and eat it too. So they keep trying to cheat, get caught cheating (by losing), get embarrassed, play some defense for a while, go into the denial stage, and then they start the whole cycle again by cheating. It's very immature. . There are no shortcuts. Eventually, either the immature players have to grow up or there has to be some major changes made to personnel.
Now I get the feeling that some of these guys are more like adolescents - they know that they should play defense and they even talk about playing it, but deep down they want to try to cheat on the principle of defense and still win, trying to have their cake and eat it too. So they keep trying to cheat, get caught cheating (by losing), get embarrassed, play some defense for a while, go into the denial stage, and then they start the whole cycle again by cheating. It's very immature. . There are no shortcuts. Eventually, either the immature players have to grow up or there has to be some major changes made to personnel.
Really? Dang. And they have their two best players making a combined 55 million or so next season. I think they might not be done adding. This summer they could easily use those picks and salary filler in the form of Hart/Robinson to add something else to it. Paying OG max would hurt but that gives them a legit run next season to push as far as they can. They've also never appeared to be in love with Randle so who knows what a deal of Randle could bring back this summer on top of it.
I’m totally fine with McNair’s decision to stay as is (all things considered).
The focus should and needs to be on the long term goal. Sabonis is 27, Fox is 26, Monk is 26, Huerter is 25, and Murray is 23. This core has a longer window than many on this forum seem to think. McNair said it himself last year that growth is not always linear. When you understand that reality, it helps you avoid knee jerk reactions and making moves out of desperation (which usually don’t work out in your favor).
I’ve made this point before but I’ll make it again now….the Kings (as currently constructed) are not a contender. If the goal is in fact to one day become a contender, you must ask yourself what is the team lacking to get to that level? From my perspective, we’re missing a true #2 option.
Sabonis is a great player but he’s not someone who’s going to enforce his will from a scoring perspective like a Embiid, Jokic, etc. Don’t get me wrong. He’s a very solid scorer but I think his game is perfect for that 3rd scorer/playmaker role as he naturally looks to setup others and has known scoring limitations/weaknesses that defenses can try and exploit.
Perhaps some posters here think that simply improving the defense would be enough to catapult us into contender status. While that’s certainly important, we’re not going to be a true contender without that 2nd star/go-to option who can help Fox when defenses clamp down in the playoffs. For example, a team of…
PG - Fox
SG - O’Neale
SF - Murray
PF - Finney-Smith
C - Sabonis
6MAN - Monk
…would be much better defensively than it is today but that team is still not a contender. Again, we need a legit #2 option to potentially enter the conversation. And the fit of that #2 option, the quality of the complementary pieces, and the level of defense around Fox, Sabonis, and that #2 option will ultimately decide if that becomes a reality.
The convenient path to get there would be for Murray to develop into that #2 option. And that is certainly a possibility with how much he continues to improve. However, he’s obviously not that player today hence why we’re not considered contenders.
The plan should be to allow our 1st to convey to ATL (should be this year) which then frees up all of our 1sts again in a trade starting in the 2024 off-season. Then it would just be about monitoring Murray’s development at that point. If he continues to develop and we feel confident he will reach that #2 star level, then you can move those picks for other complementary pieces (or draft those complementary pieces). If his development starts to plateau, then you have Murray and/or a bunch of picks to dangle as a trade package for a 2nd star.
The way the Kings are setup currently, patience is key. I totally understand McNair wanting to hold onto as many assets as possible until you know Murray can become that player. It wouldn’t really be wise to surrender those assets in the short term for complementary pieces when you don’t yet know that you even have the necessary firepower at the top of your roster to be a contender. Those assets need to be saved in case Murray doesn’t reach that level. Watching Keegan in year 3 may be the last data point McNair is waiting on before making that final decision.
The focus should and needs to be on the long term goal. Sabonis is 27, Fox is 26, Monk is 26, Huerter is 25, and Murray is 23. This core has a longer window than many on this forum seem to think. McNair said it himself last year that growth is not always linear. When you understand that reality, it helps you avoid knee jerk reactions and making moves out of desperation (which usually don’t work out in your favor).
I’ve made this point before but I’ll make it again now….the Kings (as currently constructed) are not a contender. If the goal is in fact to one day become a contender, you must ask yourself what is the team lacking to get to that level? From my perspective, we’re missing a true #2 option.
Sabonis is a great player but he’s not someone who’s going to enforce his will from a scoring perspective like a Embiid, Jokic, etc. Don’t get me wrong. He’s a very solid scorer but I think his game is perfect for that 3rd scorer/playmaker role as he naturally looks to setup others and has known scoring limitations/weaknesses that defenses can try and exploit.
Perhaps some posters here think that simply improving the defense would be enough to catapult us into contender status. While that’s certainly important, we’re not going to be a true contender without that 2nd star/go-to option who can help Fox when defenses clamp down in the playoffs. For example, a team of…
PG - Fox
SG - O’Neale
SF - Murray
PF - Finney-Smith
C - Sabonis
6MAN - Monk
…would be much better defensively than it is today but that team is still not a contender. Again, we need a legit #2 option to potentially enter the conversation. And the fit of that #2 option, the quality of the complementary pieces, and the level of defense around Fox, Sabonis, and that #2 option will ultimately decide if that becomes a reality.
The convenient path to get there would be for Murray to develop into that #2 option. And that is certainly a possibility with how much he continues to improve. However, he’s obviously not that player today hence why we’re not considered contenders.
The plan should be to allow our 1st to convey to ATL (should be this year) which then frees up all of our 1sts again in a trade starting in the 2024 off-season. Then it would just be about monitoring Murray’s development at that point. If he continues to develop and we feel confident he will reach that #2 star level, then you can move those picks for other complementary pieces (or draft those complementary pieces). If his development starts to plateau, then you have Murray and/or a bunch of picks to dangle as a trade package for a 2nd star.
The way the Kings are setup currently, patience is key. I totally understand McNair wanting to hold onto as many assets as possible until you know Murray can become that player. It wouldn’t really be wise to surrender those assets in the short term for complementary pieces when you don’t yet know that you even have the necessary firepower at the top of your roster to be a contender. Those assets need to be saved in case Murray doesn’t reach that level. Watching Keegan in year 3 may be the last data point McNair is waiting on before making that final decision.
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Thank you... great post and thoughtful as always. I'm frustrated that we didn't at least make a few tweaks around the edges, but agree Monte overall has the right approach. Had they made a more meaningful move in the offseason I might be less antsy, but need to consider the long term plan.
The reality is most likely the Murray ascendance is the path. If he doesn't get to that all-star (or near all-star level) this team probably is destined to mediocrity. I liken there trajectory a little bit to the Bulls. They made a big push a couple years ago to change the culture, acquiring more immediate help. They were a surprise team a few years ago on the way up. Then never made the jump. Maybe they could have if Patrick Williams took a leap or Lonzo didn't get hurt, but those things didn't happen and so now they are has-beens and will need to reset again. Monte's patience could pay off, or he could be out of a job in two years if things never materialize.
The reality is most likely the Murray ascendance is the path. If he doesn't get to that all-star (or near all-star level) this team probably is destined to mediocrity. I liken there trajectory a little bit to the Bulls. They made a big push a couple years ago to change the culture, acquiring more immediate help. They were a surprise team a few years ago on the way up. Then never made the jump. Maybe they could have if Patrick Williams took a leap or Lonzo didn't get hurt, but those things didn't happen and so now they are has-beens and will need to reset again. Monte's patience could pay off, or he could be out of a job in two years if things never materialize.
When Monk is going well, he's currently looked at as the #2 option to close games. If they sign him....and then are still looking for another #2 option, does that leave room for Monk to close games? Not sure that Monk is anywhere near as productive, if he's the 3rd or 4th option on the floor, but Murray certainly can be...since that's what he currently is
Yeah.
None of us want patience, for obvious reasons of us sucking for 16 of the last 17 years, but it's the right play to actually attempt to build a contender, when we don't have a blue chip top 5 player. Which is a tough enough hill to climb anyway. But I'd be curious how Nuggets fans were able to cope with their climb under Jokic and Malone.
We don't have to win this season. We're not on the clock with a LeBron/Steph/KD/Harden/Kawhi/PG/AD, etc. And I think there's absolutely a non-zero chance Jokic just decides he wants to hang it up and not play basketball anymore to enjoy life at some point within the next 3 years. Not saying that's anywhere close to likely of happening, but he really does seem to enjoy plenty outside the NBA. Luka/Kyrie is about as fragile a star duo that's ever been put together. Would anyone be shocked if neither guy is on the team in a few years?
OKC and Minny are the two teams that are 1. Damn good now and 2. Better set up than we are to make a run 5+ years down the line. The West is absolutely an arms race right now, but I don't think it's going to be a long lasting war, at all.
All that being said, don't skip steps. Flipping Keegan for Pascal or OG would be an example of doing that. Trading 2 FRP for Gafford and PJ Washington reeks of similar desperation. 3 2nd round picks for Royce is fine, but is Royce changing our season? Does that make us a better long-term franchise?
Changes absolutely need to be made, but it has to be good changes that further us along our path to title contention. Not short-term dopamine hits to make us fans feel better. Even though this really does suck.
None of us want patience, for obvious reasons of us sucking for 16 of the last 17 years, but it's the right play to actually attempt to build a contender, when we don't have a blue chip top 5 player. Which is a tough enough hill to climb anyway. But I'd be curious how Nuggets fans were able to cope with their climb under Jokic and Malone.
We don't have to win this season. We're not on the clock with a LeBron/Steph/KD/Harden/Kawhi/PG/AD, etc. And I think there's absolutely a non-zero chance Jokic just decides he wants to hang it up and not play basketball anymore to enjoy life at some point within the next 3 years. Not saying that's anywhere close to likely of happening, but he really does seem to enjoy plenty outside the NBA. Luka/Kyrie is about as fragile a star duo that's ever been put together. Would anyone be shocked if neither guy is on the team in a few years?
OKC and Minny are the two teams that are 1. Damn good now and 2. Better set up than we are to make a run 5+ years down the line. The West is absolutely an arms race right now, but I don't think it's going to be a long lasting war, at all.
All that being said, don't skip steps. Flipping Keegan for Pascal or OG would be an example of doing that. Trading 2 FRP for Gafford and PJ Washington reeks of similar desperation. 3 2nd round picks for Royce is fine, but is Royce changing our season? Does that make us a better long-term franchise?
Changes absolutely need to be made, but it has to be good changes that further us along our path to title contention. Not short-term dopamine hits to make us fans feel better. Even though this really does suck.
The report was OG Anunoby didn't want to come to Sacramento. What are we gonna do? Sacramento and NYC are about as far apart as you can get in terms of "life outside basketball" and that plays a big role in who does and (more typically) who does not want to go there.
Of all the moves we did not make, I'm mostly disappointed that Xavier Tillman got traded to Boston for a couple second round picks. He's a terrific defender who would have helped us a lot and the cost to acquire him was negligible. Most of the other guys we talked about didn't end up getting traded at all so we can infer that the asking prices were just too high.
Of all the moves we did not make, I'm mostly disappointed that Xavier Tillman got traded to Boston for a couple second round picks. He's a terrific defender who would have helped us a lot and the cost to acquire him was negligible. Most of the other guys we talked about didn't end up getting traded at all so we can infer that the asking prices were just too high.
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Move onto the next best option with the tools you have and be aggressive. Obviously the Knicks have a leg up because they gambled on talents on quite favorable contracts while unfortunately the favorable contract of Barnes didn't pan out largely through role and usage. The question facing this team is how to they maximize the abilities of both Keegan and Harrison at the same time. Monte has time but it's ticking. Monte didn't need to make a desperation move now but that time might come sooner than we think. Even keeping his current team together might come with going over the tax line. The end of this season tells that tale so here's to a great run to finish it off!
https://www.si.com/nba/kings/news/sacramento-kings-cap-space-2024-nba-insider
The last I heard about the Kings cap situation was this article prior to the season but didn't really think about the reality of it. This is through the lens of a contending outlook. As a non-contender, this is Monk eating all that room and using the MLE pushes you INTO first apron territory. For a contender? Fine. For a non contender? Nope. Bad idea. Now we see if this team is a contender. The deadline cloud clearing could bring the team new life who knows.
https://www.si.com/nba/kings/news/sacramento-kings-cap-space-2024-nba-insider
The last I heard about the Kings cap situation was this article prior to the season but didn't really think about the reality of it. This is through the lens of a contending outlook. As a non-contender, this is Monk eating all that room and using the MLE pushes you INTO first apron territory. For a contender? Fine. For a non contender? Nope. Bad idea. Now we see if this team is a contender. The deadline cloud clearing could bring the team new life who knows.
I generally agree although I think what you are really asking for is another bucket getter. That could come in the form of a star but it doesn’t necessarily have to. We have two guys that have proven they can score in the playoffs-Fox and Monk. Keegan showed in the last 4 games of the playoffs that he can too, but it’s going to come more within the flow of the offense. If I was Keegan, I would spend all season getting his three point shot as dialed in as possible. Pull ups, step backs, corner, all of it. He needs to be a 41+ three point shooter. I think he can find points off cuts, mid range, drives to get to 18-21 points fairly easily. It is possible to get an iso scorer that is not a star. Say Scary Terry or Derozan. Even Kelly Oubre to a certain extent. We need one bucket getter and one defensive tone setter. I’ve said that over and over again and still believe it.
It's not the ages moving forward, it's the cap restrictions. If the Kings have to start letting talent slide off for money reasons then adding back to that talent pool is going to become very difficult to do. Petrie went through the same thing later on in his tenure. It kind of looks like you don't want to inch up to any apron restrictions if you are thinking about the interim, you actually want to smash on through like some teams are doing now because at some point, literally making any moves becomes a trick. Just rip the bandaid off and go all the way down the hole, lol. Especially if you have limited trade options and it's looking like the Kings do. The Murray point is pretty right on. Keegan turns into this team Jaylen Brown and things could go pretty smoothly.
It does seem to align with what we’ve been seeing and hearing. This has the feel of a n established youth group led by an adult trying to take them in a different direction the next year without their buy-in. I don’t see a strong sense of ownership of this new defense-focused direction from most of the players, with the exception of Domas (who was raised in a different culture) and Trey (who looks up to Domas).
The good news is that Agravanis has 0% chances of playing in the NBA and as a character he has created numerous issues to every club he has been and Greece National Team as well. Then again he might be friend with Giannis or Thanasis so they can waste another spot for him just to have another person talking Greek with them in the locker room.
From the released players I don't know who is the better fit for the Kings. If Fox will decide to take sometimes off to deal with his shoulder injury (hopefully not as long as Ja did) then Dinwiddie could help as a starter. If everyone is healthy I don't know if it makes sense signing him though, hard for him to play along with Fox and I don't think he will settle coming from the bench in case he has other offers.
From the released players I don't know who is the better fit for the Kings. If Fox will decide to take sometimes off to deal with his shoulder injury (hopefully not as long as Ja did) then Dinwiddie could help as a starter. If everyone is healthy I don't know if it makes sense signing him though, hard for him to play along with Fox and I don't think he will settle coming from the bench in case he has other offers.