[Game] Sacramento Kings vs. Minnesota Timberwolves, 12/23/2023, 7:00PM PST 10:00PM EST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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he has every right. why did Brown spend the time to go watch him live in Greece and try to persuade him to come over if he's just end of the bench fodder? he's having a tough time adjusting and so you just hope that as the season continues to progress he gets more opportunities because the majority of the roster isn't defending anyway, not the way their currently built. Play to your strengths.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out with Sasha/Lyles. I’m curious if we will get any further clarification on the sideline antics. The decision to have Javale as the permanent back up 5 and Lyles/Sasha fighting it out for minutes at the 4 was worrisome at the time. We saw some great things from Sasha offensively early but now it’s essentially just the occasional 3. Don’t know how to get him in more of a rhythm. Even with bigger minutes I haven’t seen much flow
MB was questioning his defensive skills since his very first day as a King. The guy then starts grabbing some rebounds, providing a couple of steals and blocks (remember the IST game against the Warriors) but still gets less minutes than JaVale Mcgee aka Tragic Brunson or ice cold Hueter/dissapearing HB. It all depends on his very first 3pt shot - if it goes in, he might get a couple more minutes, if not - hello garbage time
Lyles had 9pts in the 4th quarter which was second on the team to Keegan's 10. Even if Domas, Fox, and HB created those looks he still had to knock them down. He's done very little for us this season and Coach has set up a situation where Lyles and Vezenkov are fighting for the same bench minutes so I can understand that he's not your favorite person right now. He had a few mistakes at the end but everyone in a Kings uniform made mistakes tonight. I just wanted to give him credit for helping to keep us in the game at a point in time where everyone else was struggling with their offense.
Brown won't stop playing favorites with Javale, it's maddening. There's plenty of minutes for both Sasha and Lyles to be 15-18 MPG consistently, but we just won't commit to Lyles as the back-up 5.
Commit to Keon/Monk/Sasha/Lyles as your core bench and I guarantee we'd see far more consistency from that unit. But we're still screwing around with Duarte/Javale, etc.
Commit to Keon/Monk/Sasha/Lyles as your core bench and I guarantee we'd see far more consistency from that unit. But we're still screwing around with Duarte/Javale, etc.
I see so many posts about Sasha that I feel guilty none is mine 
)
Guys you should understand- the guy is literally a GOD in Europe … if you ask 1000 fans of Oly “ name one player you want to get for Christmas” , 1001 will answer Vezenkov … they made literally a dozen of songs for him last year ….
He is used to play 28/30 min (on 40 min basket game) and to hit the crunch baskets , to end every 4 out of 5 attacks and to play with the ball in 99.9% of the attack of the team … and his numbers were great …
Now he is playing barely 10 min , 9/10 times it’s something like 3/3/2/2 and he is getting the ball once on every 50 offensive plays and shoot it once in every 100 ….
And that for a guy who is ultra competitive and wants to win the flip coin of a soccer game who to have the first possession …
So if he was frustrated (I did not seen it) it is only because he know he can bring more to the team …
) Guys you should understand- the guy is literally a GOD in Europe … if you ask 1000 fans of Oly “ name one player you want to get for Christmas” , 1001 will answer Vezenkov … they made literally a dozen of songs for him last year ….
He is used to play 28/30 min (on 40 min basket game) and to hit the crunch baskets , to end every 4 out of 5 attacks and to play with the ball in 99.9% of the attack of the team … and his numbers were great …
Now he is playing barely 10 min , 9/10 times it’s something like 3/3/2/2 and he is getting the ball once on every 50 offensive plays and shoot it once in every 100 ….
And that for a guy who is ultra competitive and wants to win the flip coin of a soccer game who to have the first possession …
So if he was frustrated (I did not seen it) it is only because he know he can bring more to the team …
Yah it’s odd. Sasha has a super short leash. Meanwhile, other dudes are tripping over themselves, forcing plays, and making low IQ decisions. And getting a lot of run. Someone pointed out, Sasha’s lack of foot speed is offset by his IQ. He also plays within the team and has a knack of finding the hot hand. He needs to get more than 12-15 mins a game
I see so many posts about Sasha that I feel guilty none is mine )
Guys you should understand- the guy is literally a GOD in Europe … if you ask 1000 fans of Oly “ name one player you want to get for Christmas” , 1001 will answer Vezenkov … they made literally a dozen of songs for him last year ….
He is used to play 28/30 min (on 40 min basket game) and to hit the crunch baskets , to end every 4 out of 5 attacks and to play with the ball in 99.9% of the attack of the team … and his numbers were great …
Now he is playing barely 10 min , 9/10 times it’s something like 3/3/2/2 and he is getting the ball once on every 50 offensive plays and shoot it once in every 100 ….
And that for a guy who is ultra competitive and wants to win the flip coin of a soccer game who to have the first possession …
So if he was frustrated (I did not seen it) it is only because he know he can bring more to the team …
)Guys you should understand- the guy is literally a GOD in Europe … if you ask 1000 fans of Oly “ name one player you want to get for Christmas” , 1001 will answer Vezenkov … they made literally a dozen of songs for him last year ….
He is used to play 28/30 min (on 40 min basket game) and to hit the crunch baskets , to end every 4 out of 5 attacks and to play with the ball in 99.9% of the attack of the team … and his numbers were great …
Now he is playing barely 10 min , 9/10 times it’s something like 3/3/2/2 and he is getting the ball once on every 50 offensive plays and shoot it once in every 100 ….
And that for a guy who is ultra competitive and wants to win the flip coin of a soccer game who to have the first possession …
So if he was frustrated (I did not seen it) it is only because he know he can bring more to the team …
Sasha is getting the same treatment. He stands in the corner and coach just expects him to shoot the ball all the time. They don't run plays for him. They don't look for him. He hardly touches the ball unless it's because his teammates want him to shoot. If he misses a couple shots and has a defensive lapse, he gets sent to Siberia and doesn't play for the rest of the night. It's not fair for him.
It's clear that defense is the reason why Mike Brown doesn't play him more, but it's also clear that the Kings have a roster full of poor defenders, but they never get penalized the way Sasha does. Again, it comes back to Mike Brown not holding everyone to the same standard.
In an interview early this month, he was asked something along the lines about Sasha's early season struggles and playing time. He brought up about how when he was an assistant coach in San Antonio, they also had a player who came from Europe around Sasha's age that went through the same transition from Europe to the NBA. This player also had a slower start to his NBA career with a lot of ups and downs before he found his footing. The player he referenced? Manu Ginoboli...... Manu was a 25-year-old rookie. Sasha is a 28-year-old rookie. They are not the same player. They are not in the same playing stages in their career. Sasha is nearly 30-years-old.. he doesn't have this time to sit around and find out. He gave up a lot to come out to Sacramento. He was playing the best basketball in his career. He was the top star in Euroleague. He comes to the NBA and touches the ball 1 time in 5mins. He's become a glorified spot-up shooter in the NBA. No wonder he's pissed.
I feel like you can't even make a fair evaluation about his NBA performance because we don't have enough minutes to see if he's good or not. I'm not even asking him to get 20+mpg. All I want for Sasha is consistent minutes in a consistent role.
Markdown (GitHub flavored):
| time | OFFRTG | DEFRTG | NETRTG | DREB% | +/- | 5th Beatle |
|-------:|---------:|---------:|---------:|--------:|------:|:-------------|
| 3 | 100 | 85.7 | 14.3 | 66.7 | 0 | C. Duarte |
| 4 | 114.3 | 175 | -60.7 | 66.7 | -6 | K. Murray |
| 7 | 118.8 | 93.3 | 25.4 | 87.5 | 1.7 | K. Ellis |
| 9 | 130 | 84.2 | 45.8 | 100 | 3.3 | D. Sabonis |
| 10 | 133.3 | 105 | 28.3 | 66.7 | 2.3 | K. Huerter |
| 18 | 107.5 | 115.4 | -7.9 | 65.2 | -0.4 | H. Barnes |
| 30 | 125.7 | 113.4 | 12.3 | 66.7 | 1.5 | J. McGee |Of the 81 minutes with that 4 man group, most of the positive minutes happen with JaVale McGee, and the best minutes happen with Sabonis.
Other than that, we have a little success going really small and playing 4 guards. Probably not something we'll always be able to get away with.
I said it looked like we were settling on HB with that unit and I loved it. I don't really care who the 5th is, as long as it's a perimeter player. I care about that 4-man grouping, as I've long stated. And 18 minutes as a 5-man unit is enough to qualify as underwater? LOL. The 5th doesn't really matter with that unit as long as it's Sasha/Lyles at the 4 and 5. It's 5-out space the floor and let Fox/Monk attack the rim with no rim protection.
The Javale minutes are good to see, but it's not a long-term potential winner. Javale just isn't an everyday NBA player. He's got match-ups where he's useful, but he gets massively exposed vs most teams guards in the NBA.
The Javale minutes are good to see, but it's not a long-term potential winner. Javale just isn't an everyday NBA player. He's got match-ups where he's useful, but he gets massively exposed vs most teams guards in the NBA.
Trey Lyles is always good for at least one dumb, unnecessary turnover in a close game. He had a wide open 3 and instead decided to throw a soft cross court pass leading to a steal and dunk. That killed any chance of a comeback.
I know Lyles is really liked, but man he often does something totally dumb.
I know Lyles is really liked, but man he often does something totally dumb.
Earlier in the season Sasha had no hesitation when he had open looks just enough to shoot over his defender. This was/is his bread and butter and why he was brought over particularly. Now he passes unless he has wide-open looks. Lately, I lost count of how many times I shouted to my screen "Just shoot the damn ball!" when he had the ball in his hands before he passes it. Perhaps it has a domino effect, he's not a playmaker like Monk if he's not shooting then his teammates would look less for him unless they run into a brick wall.
Not sure if the short leash is messing his head.
Not sure if the short leash is messing his head.
Man it is like you wrote my thought into a post ….
To compare Vezenkov with one of the greatest guards outside USA to play the game is totally pointless… one more prove that MB isn’t looking seriously what he had brought in with Vezenkov … in his whole career he won’t make the dribbles Manu did in one game , at least …
Honestly I can’t imagine Keagen being on a short leash with MB ever … It looks like MB is his father or something …
I was really optimistic that Vezenkov will have future in this Kings team , especially with his huge improvement in defence (which is out of question that is happening) but last few games are making me think I was in huge mistake ….
P.S. he has better % than Lyles in all shooting statistics, FT,3 points and overall …
To compare Vezenkov with one of the greatest guards outside USA to play the game is totally pointless… one more prove that MB isn’t looking seriously what he had brought in with Vezenkov … in his whole career he won’t make the dribbles Manu did in one game , at least …
Honestly I can’t imagine Keagen being on a short leash with MB ever … It looks like MB is his father or something …
I was really optimistic that Vezenkov will have future in this Kings team , especially with his huge improvement in defence (which is out of question that is happening) but last few games are making me think I was in huge mistake ….
P.S. he has better % than Lyles in all shooting statistics, FT,3 points and overall …
How would you react if EVERY single unsuccessful attempt is leading to you being frozen for the night …
But honestly he has always been like this , the system in Oly was “make the extra pass”… they were always trying to make better look , I am sure he will not hesitate to shoot every ball he doesn’t see better option …
But we will succeed much more if start looking for him not passing by accident ….
But honestly he has always been like this , the system in Oly was “make the extra pass”… they were always trying to make better look , I am sure he will not hesitate to shoot every ball he doesn’t see better option …
But we will succeed much more if start looking for him not passing by accident ….
Hey, I'm just reading the numbers. If we don't care who the 5th Beatle is, then Domas is clearly the best option.
But I think we all know Domas is a good player, that's an uninteresting question. The real question is how we fill the minutes while Domas is out.
18 minutes may not sound like a lot, but it's the 3rd most used non-Domas lineup this year, so we can judge it about as well as we can judge any other lineup.
Of our top 15 most used Sabonis-less lineups, it's our 10th best in terms of +/-. It's got a negative net rating (which worse than last time I checked it, and < 0 is my definition for "underwater"). More charitably, I could say it is treading water, which isn't the worst thing for a backup squad... but there seem to be many better options, most of them have JaVale McGee.
McGee won't be with the Kings forever, but when we think about roster construction for the future, the fans should have a clear idea about what has worked and what hasn't.
In any case, it is misleading to post those impressive ratings, when 70% of the positive minutes for those ratings have a big man playing the 5.
But I think we all know Domas is a good player, that's an uninteresting question. The real question is how we fill the minutes while Domas is out.
18 minutes may not sound like a lot, but it's the 3rd most used non-Domas lineup this year, so we can judge it about as well as we can judge any other lineup.
Of our top 15 most used Sabonis-less lineups, it's our 10th best in terms of +/-. It's got a negative net rating (which worse than last time I checked it, and < 0 is my definition for "underwater"). More charitably, I could say it is treading water, which isn't the worst thing for a backup squad... but there seem to be many better options, most of them have JaVale McGee.
McGee won't be with the Kings forever, but when we think about roster construction for the future, the fans should have a clear idea about what has worked and what hasn't.
In any case, it is misleading to post those impressive ratings, when 70% of the positive minutes for those ratings have a big man playing the 5.
Sasha has 21 games with 10+ minutes (most between 11-15) and 4 games with less than 10 minutes played. Some of the minutes were garbage time. Still, I’d say 12-15 minutes a game was about what most of us expected he would play. Now the question is how do we maximize his skill set when he is out there?
Are we seeing cracks in our COY? Was it Monte's work that actually improved the team to winning ways (EOY)? Are the players being used as envisioned and to their strengths? Evidence:
1. A defensive-minded coach and staff have a team that doesn't play good defense over their year+ tenure. Either they lack teaching skills or the players lack learning skills. (Fox taught Keegan defense over the summer so it can be done.)
2. The same starting line-up of players is uncreatively marched out every game and every half-time regardless of their performance. There are other player options to respond to match-ups or team needs. While the Kings do have a winning record, it could be better by trying options. The infamous B-t-B dilemma could allow for some flexibility in player's court time on the second night.
3. Brown seems to be slow to react to changing game situations with the starters. The rotation is set in stone. However, one mistake by a bench player and he sits (except Monk and Lyles). It is a downer for morale, performance, effort and creates pressure and frustration. A bench player needs a few minutes to warm-up and get into the flow...five or six minutes should be sufficient. Players do not get to the NBA by being worthless duds so give them some time to show their wares on court.
Personally, I believe that every player on the Kings has worth, tries hard, and wants to contribute to the best of his skill set. In my profession, I have seen very able students held down by poor or indifferent teaching. Then those same students blossom when exposed to a caring, positive, and competent educational environment.
Disclaimer: The above is based on TV eye-observation. Practices, off camera player-coach interactions, management factors, and team planning are not privy to the casual fan and may affect perceptions.
Hmmm....TL/DR anyone?
1. A defensive-minded coach and staff have a team that doesn't play good defense over their year+ tenure. Either they lack teaching skills or the players lack learning skills. (Fox taught Keegan defense over the summer so it can be done.)
2. The same starting line-up of players is uncreatively marched out every game and every half-time regardless of their performance. There are other player options to respond to match-ups or team needs. While the Kings do have a winning record, it could be better by trying options. The infamous B-t-B dilemma could allow for some flexibility in player's court time on the second night.
3. Brown seems to be slow to react to changing game situations with the starters. The rotation is set in stone. However, one mistake by a bench player and he sits (except Monk and Lyles). It is a downer for morale, performance, effort and creates pressure and frustration. A bench player needs a few minutes to warm-up and get into the flow...five or six minutes should be sufficient. Players do not get to the NBA by being worthless duds so give them some time to show their wares on court.
Personally, I believe that every player on the Kings has worth, tries hard, and wants to contribute to the best of his skill set. In my profession, I have seen very able students held down by poor or indifferent teaching. Then those same students blossom when exposed to a caring, positive, and competent educational environment.
Disclaimer: The above is based on TV eye-observation. Practices, off camera player-coach interactions, management factors, and team planning are not privy to the casual fan and may affect perceptions.
Hmmm....TL/DR anyone?
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Minutes should be earned. I don't think Sasha earn them consistently. Even though he play with higher IQ...his defense is as bad as most of the Kings out there. The Kings roster is just not built to play great D....that is the biggest problem and it spread down and expose any individual who couldn't play great D like Huerter, Barnes, Monk, Sasha and Sabonis.
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