Kings trade Richaun Holmes and 24th overall pick to Mavericks for ????

[kingsfan101]

I don't think Kings fans, after missing the playoffs for 16 years straight, are going to riot if the team competes for a championship over the next 5 years yet falls short (looking at you, Bills fan).

This whole post reeks of seriously strong recency bias.

Kings fans were just happy to get an invite to the dance this year. Even if it takes 3 years to reach the Western Conf Finals, these fans are here for it.

Oh I agree. Most fans (myself included) will have patience. At the same time, we'll expect a build up on the last season, and a direction.

Performance can ebb and flow. As long as the team is competing, playing hard, and there is some sort of plan, a couple of "poor" seasons will be taken in stride. The challenge will be if fans feel we are falling short there.

I don't want to sound alarmist or even a pessimist. Monte has proven himself smarter than most fans, and I trust him. I do concede that despite trying to not sound pessimist, that's part of my build up. I fear and mentally prepare for the worst, while hoping for the best. That said, the bar for both the worst and best has risen, even for the pessimist in me.

 

[sactowndog]

Alright walk me through it. Barnes gets 18-20 mil a year and Sabonis wants close to max

both of those fall under Bird rights and are not subject to the cap. You can resign your own players to go over the cap.

 

[sactowndog]

I don't think Kings fans, after missing the playoffs for 16 years straight, are going to riot if the team competes for a championship over the next 5 years yet falls short (looking at you, Bills fan).

This whole post reeks of seriously strong recency bias.

Kings fans were just happy to get an invite to the dance this year. Even if it takes 3 years to reach the Western Conf Finals, these fans are here for it.

shooting for making the first round is how you miss the playoffs for 15 years straight. Look at the Hawks who won 60 and then declined after that under Budenholzer

 

[iowamcnabb]

both of those fall under Bird rights and are not subject to the cap. You can resign your own players to go over the cap.

right but you can only extend Sabonis for 140 percent of his current salary which is likely not enough. We would need to give him a raise first using cap. Unless it’s true that he will sign for 4/120 which seems too low.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Lavine is actually a damn good player - and his defense for Team USA was spectalur. .

Damned good offensive player.

I can't refute your assertion about his "team USA" defense, as I didn't follow any of it. But, historically, LaVine has been known as a lazy, poor defender. While he's been "average" at times in terms of defensive rating, he's had other seasons when he's been a liability on that end.

So assuming he was good defensively for Team USA as you say, that shouldn't override the reputation he's developed over his entire NBA career.

That all said, I'd much rather have Zach Lavine than Kyle Kuzma, so there's that.

 

[NewArena]

is there any possible scenario with us getting Kuzma and retaining Barnes?

 

[SacTownKid]

is there any possible scenario with us getting Kuzma and retaining Barnes?

If Kuz wants like half what people have suggested maybe. Kuz, Barnes, Murray, and Sasha is too much production expectations at the F spot. There wouldn't be enough minutes unless Sasha is expected to sit around next year.

 

[LT-Sac-Town]

I think there's two ways we go about this.

1. Make a big splash, bring over Sasha, and try to retain Lyles. The big splash would be Grant, Kuzma, or Johnson. Looks like Middleton is going to stay put, then we would need to sign a cheap C and us using a lot of cap on the splash would eliminate the ability to get someone who could make an impact

2. Add complimentary pieces with the hope of a core of Fox, Domas, Monk, and Murray will develop into a championship caliber core and keep more cap flexibility. That looks like keeping Barnes or replacing him with someone like Rui (who I really like as he showed he can be a difference maker in the playoffs) or Grant Williams, then sign a C such as Brook Lopez, Christian Wood, or Poeltl. Think we would still bring over Sasha and try to retain Lyles in this case too. All signs are pointing to Lopez staying put also and would he want to come over after last years scuffle with Lyles?

Should be very interesting to watch it play out.

 

[Jc121]

We have been talking about moving Barnes for a few years here. Can we find a upgrade maybe but at least lets try a sign and trade before we just release him.

now I have been pleasantly surprised with our pickups the last few years so I will wait and see how it works out.
Some of our weaknesses were exposed and I know it takes some time to fill in all the correct pieces.

So we may see how much our destination has stayed the same our as we hope we have become a team people want to come play for. And to me that should say a lot of where we stand in the eyes of the free agents around the league

 

[HndsmCelt]

We have been talking about moving Barnes for a few years here. Can we find a upgrade maybe but at least lets try a sign and trade before we just release him.

now I have been pleasantly surprised with our pickups the last few years so I will wait and see how it works out.
Some of our weaknesses were exposed and I know it takes some time to fill in all the correct pieces.

So we may see how much our destination has stayed the same our as we hope we have become a team people want to come play for. And to me that should say a lot of where we stand in the eyes of the free agents around the league

Every team Barns has ever played for has thought they could upgrade his slot, he is the ultimate "The grass is always greener player." In the end, I am not sure GSW or Dallas really upgraded. Sure it is easy to look around and find guys that are better 4s or better 3's out there, but at his price point and given his flexibility/skill set all you really do is gain in one area and lose in another. Kuzma is a better defender and can score, but he is fairly inefficient and sort of wallpaper in the locker room. So color me skeptical. Besides at this point with all the fan and "expert" voices screaming "Get Kuzma" I am starting to have George Karl flashbacks.

 

[SLAB]

Every team Barns has ever played for has thought they could upgrade his slot, he is the ultimate "The grass is always greener player." In the end, I am not sure GSW or Dallas really upgraded. Sure it is easy to look around and find guys that are better 4s or better 3's out there, but at his price point and given his flexibility/skill set all you really do is gain in one area and lose in another. Kuzma is a better defender and can score, but he is fairly inefficient and sort of wallpaper in the locker room. So color me skeptical. Besides at this point with all the fan and "expert" voices screaming "Get Kuzma" I am starting to have George Karl flashbacks.

Dallas just wanted out of his contract because he was an absolute failure as “THE GUY” and Golden State got Kevin Durant. Are we talking about the same Harrison Barnes?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Every team Barns has ever played for has thought they could upgrade his slot, he is the ultimate "The grass is always greener player." In the end, I am not sure GSW or Dallas really upgraded. Sure it is easy to look around and find guys that are better 4s or better 3's out there, but at his price point and given his flexibility/skill set all you really do is gain in one area and lose in another. Kuzma is a better defender and can score, but he is fairly inefficient and sort of wallpaper in the locker room. So color me skeptical. Besides at this point with all the fan and "expert" voices screaming "Get Kuzma" I am starting to have George Karl flashbacks.

Your skepticism is valid. Not sure why you believe Kuzma is a better defender than HB, though, which I assure you he is not. Not on the whole.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Dallas just wanted out of his contract because he was an absolute failure as “THE GUY” and Golden State got Kevin Durant. Are we talking about the same Harrison Barnes?

Nothing like an oversimplification. In the Warriors line up HB essentially played SF next to Green and was more or less replaced by Iggy, who looked better on paper and maybe was an upgrade, you tell me. In Dallas who was the upgrade from god awful? MKG or Maxi Keebler? Again I am not saying HB is a top-tier player who is irreplaceable, I just find it amusing that his entire career is typified by talk of upgrades with at best a marginal success rate in doing so.

 

[gilly420]

I'm remaining firm that we need an upgrade at the 4. An older HB is not what I had in mind when it comes to improving this team. Unless we get Lopez to protect the paint, the forward opposite Keegan should be a big-time athlete, defender and rebounder. Someone on this team needs to be able to scare the other team a little bit in the paint, and otherwise. Sasha is obviously not going to be that guy, even though I'm excited for his arrival. I'm looking for the next Draymond.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1677068175970820096

Official

 

[gilly420]

Officially disappointed. Steep price to pay to unload a very bad contract. Oh well, onward and upward. Now find us a backup 5 that can lift this team beyond the revolving door of last year.

 

[joemama]

But can cash considerations play sf?

 

[sactowndog]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1677068175970820096

Official

yep the old cash considerations…..

going to be interesting watching Hardy and Prosper at summer league given we sold both for cash.

 

[Tetsujin]

yep the old cash considerations…..

going to be interesting watching Hardy and Prosper at summer league given we sold both for cash.

We traded the pick that turned into Hardy for the picks that helped us get Duarte and Colby

 

[ockingsfan]

Pretty disappointing. I wish the Kings would of at least gotten a 2nd round pick for this.

However, considering the max (I believe) a team can pay for a draft pick is $3 million and Richaun had $25 million in dead money for this Kings team, Monte and Vivek basically sold the #24 pick for $28 million. Not bad value (i.e. helped us retain Sabonis), money wise.

 

[dude12]

We traded the pick that turned into Hardy for the picks that helped us get Duarte and Colby

Facts just get in the way of agendas

 

[ockingsfan]

We traded the pick that turned into Hardy for the picks that helped us get Duarte and Colby

Agreed that the Kings couldn't had gotten Colby without Dallas's 2nd round pick (from Harden trade) this year, but the Kings could had traded a different 2nd rounder for Durate in that trade.

So Colby Jones is a direct product of the Jaden Harden trade, not so much Durate.

 

[The_Jamal]

yep the old cash considerations…..

going to be interesting watching Hardy and Prosper at summer league given we sold both for cash.

We literally just used both Mavs picks. Are you hoping we aren't paying attention or something and won't call you on this bias?

Mavs pick #1+38 became Colby Jones
Mavs pick#2+2030 2nd became Chris Duarte.
Vezenkov just signed a 3 year deal on the other 2nd round pick we traded.

Ergo:

Vezenkov+Duarte+Jones for 2022 pick 49+Hardy+2023 pick 38+2030 2nd round pick

Domas extension couldn't have happened without trading Holmes. So that's the trade: 24+bad contract to secure Domas a year early. Can debate whether that's worth or not.

But SAVING CASH is a bad argument. It's been proven untrue this entire off-season

 

[SacTownKid]

Officially disappointed. Steep price to pay to unload a very bad contract. Oh well, onward and upward. Now find us a backup 5 that can lift this team beyond the revolving door of last year.

Monte tried, but in the end, it is what it is. Better to have tried and not gotten stuck with garbage in a trade or signing than to have not tried at all. The Kings have very few if ANY terrible contracts so Monte can work his magic via trade if need be.

 

[sactowndog]

We literally just used both Mavs picks. Are you hoping we aren't paying attention or something and won't call you on this bias?

Mavs pick #1+38 became Colby Jones
Mavs pick#2+2030 2nd became Chris Duarte.
Vezenkov just signed a 3 year deal on the other 2nd round pick we traded.

Ergo:

Duarte+Jones for Hardy+38+2030 2nd round pick

Domas extension couldn't have happened without trading Holmes. So that's the trade: 24+bad contract to secure Domas a year early. Can debate whether that's worth or not.

But SAVING CASH is a bad argument. It's been proven untrue this entire off-season

we had plenty of other 2nd round picks we could have used and some of which we sold.

 

[The_Jamal]

we had plenty of other 2nd round picks we could have used and some of which we sold.

Oh really?

2020

Tillman trade back for Pick 40 (Woodard) and a future 2nd(would become pick 49 we sent for Vezenkov). Selected Ramsey with Pick 43

2021

Traded Mem 2nd round pick for TD at the deadline
Traded 2 2nd round picks for Delon Wright
Selected Queta with Pick 39

2022
Acquired IND 2023 2nd in the Hali-Sabonis trade
Acquired our 2024 2nd back from DET.
Traded Pick 37 (Hardy) for 2 future Mavs 2nds
Traded pick 49 for Vezenkov

2023
Traded Mavs pick #1+38 to trade to 34 for Colby Jones
Traded Mavs pick #2+2030 2nd for Chris Duarte
Selected Jalen Slawson with pick 54


Where in any of this history is him selling picks for cash? The Delon Wright trade remains puzzling, but that's one of his only bad moves as a GM thus far. He's actually been incredibly active using 2nds to find rotational players or just making the selection.

In terms of results:

Woodard bust
Ramsey bust
Queta still up in the air, but no looking great.

And essentially his 3 years of moving 2nds around has resulted in us grabbing:
Jones
Slawson
Vezenkov
Duarte

 

[ockingsfan]

IMHO, the way Monte drafts his first round players (i.e. established high floor multiple year college players with all around games, like Haliburton, Mitchell, Keegan), I wouldn't be surprised if the Kings had targeted Colby Jones with the #24 pick. Colby Jones had been projected around #24 and higher than OMax through most of the pre-draft process.

The fact that Monte traded up (which Monte has never done) to go get Colby tells me he likely would had been the pick had Monte kept #24 (sans Kris Murray being available).

 

[gilly420]

Sure am glad to have Fox and Ox signed up long term. Deft moves to have 2nd round players on contract for 3/4 years. Just need someone to control paint 15-20 min a night, give a different look than Sabonas. Go Kings

 

[captain bill]

IMHO, the way Monte drafts his first round players (i.e. established high floor multiple year college players with all around games, like Haliburton, Mitchell, Keegan), I wouldn't be surprised if the Kings had targeted Colby Jones with the #24 pick. Colby Jones had been projected around #24 and higher than OMax through most of the pre-draft process.

The fact that Monte traded up (which Monte has never done) to go get Colby tells me he likely would had been the pick had Monte kept #24 (sans Kris Murray being available).

Something I've thought a lot but I also don't know draft prospects enough to evaluate the merits of the move. We moved from 24 & 38 to just 34, which is hard to call "selling a first rounder" when in reality we traded down slightly within picks that were straddling 1st & 2nd round. I'm not super happy we're adding more guards but that's a different story

 

[ockingsfan]

Something I've thought a lot but I also don't know draft prospects enough to evaluate the merits of the move. We moved from 24 & 38 to just 34, which is hard to call "selling a first rounder" when in reality we traded down slightly within picks that were straddling 1st & 2nd round. I'm not super happy we're adding more guards but that's a different story

If it makes you feel any better, I think eventually Colby Jones will be able to swing between SG/SF. He has the height and length (6'6" with 6'8" wingspan), he just need to add some weight and muscle to defend the SF. I think eventually he will be able to play both SG/SF.