Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker

T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#661
#661
iowamcnabb said:
I think I’m more bullish on Keegan being that scorer we need and as a result I’m happy adding 3 and d role players around the Fox/Sabonis/Murray core. If you look at what Keegan did in the playoffs coupled with his history of major improvements year over year I like his chances.
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To add on to this, I think it would be really foolish if we didn't give Keegan every opportunity to develop into that 3rd 20+ PPG scorer. I think he absolutely has that potential with his shooting and if/when he starts accessing some of his on-ball scoring from Iowa... that's absolutely well within his range of outcomes. Honestly, I think it's pretty likely if we give him the opportunity and role to do it.

That's the real risk if you try to outsource the role that should be his. Maybe you keep him stuck as a off-ball C&S spacer and you ruin his upside.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#662
#662
iowamcnabb said:
I think I’m more bullish on Keegan being that scorer we need and as a result I’m happy adding 3 and d role players around the Fox/Sabonis/Murray core. If you look at what Keegan did in the playoffs coupled with his history of major improvements year over year I like his chances.
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That's obviously the hope but so far, unless they flip his usage, which might happen, from summer league on they've appeared to see him mostly as a catch and shoot player. The post play will be key but it was so underutilized even when potentially needed last season it was odd.
 
ockingsfan

ockingsfan

Starter
#663
#663
SacTownKid said:
That's obviously the hope but so far, unless they flip his usage, which might happen, from summer league on they've appeared to see him mostly as a catch and shoot player. The post play will be key but it was so underutilized even when potentially needed last season it was odd.
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Yeah, I think the issue was coach Brown having a shorter leash for the rookie. I think Brown will loosen the reigns on Keegan next year, hopefully allowing Keegan to display the 3 level scoring he showed at Iowa.

I think it may have also been a spacing issue for Coach Brown this year, he wanted 3 spacers next to Fox and Ox. But ultimately, we’re going to need another 20 ppg scorer (a 3 level scorer) to get to championship contention. I feel that Keegan can become that 20ppg scorer next to Fox in a couple of years.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#664
#664
More bubbling up from the Wiz and Beal about trade stuff. I read that Beal has a ridiculous no trade clause where he can actually decide what's included in any deal. What the **** were the Wiz thinking? lol. However, that could be a good thing for a team like Sac. There were hints about Beal wanting Domas in Washington at one point. Well, there could be a way to make it happen! Monte better be at least doing some serious intel on this one.

I wonder if something along the lines of Huerter/Davion/1sts could get it done? If the Wizards are wishy washy about going full on rebuild then that could keep them relevant while getting some young/future assets at the same time. The Kings are one of those few teams that could give them a package like that while filling the positional hole immediately.
 
J

jiimbob

Starter
#665
#665
SacTownKid said:
More bubbling up from the Wiz and Beal about trade stuff. I read that Beal has a ridiculous no trade clause where he can actually decide what's included in any deal. What the **** were the Wiz thinking? lol. However, that could be a good thing for a team like Sac. There were hints about Beal wanting Domas in Washington at one point. Well, there could be a way to make it happen! Monte better be at least doing some serious intel on this one.

I wonder if something along the lines of Huerter/Davion/1sts could get it done? If the Wizards are wishy washy about going full on rebuild then that could keep them relevant while getting some young/future assets at the same time. The Kings are one of those few teams that could give them a package like that while filling the positional hole immediately.
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SacTownKid said:
More bubbling up from the Wiz and Beal about trade stuff. I read that Beal has a ridiculous no trade clause where he can actually decide what's included in any deal. What the **** were the Wiz thinking? lol. However, that could be a good thing for a team like Sac. There were hints about Beal wanting Domas in Washington at one point. Well, there could be a way to make it happen! Monte better be at least doing some serious intel on this one.

I wonder if something along the lines of Huerter/Davion/1sts could get it done? If the Wizards are wishy washy about going full on rebuild then that could keep them relevant while getting some young/future assets at the same time. The Kings are one of those few teams that could give them a package like that while filling the positional hole immediately.
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Terrible contract but i’m intrigued. Especially as it sounds like Beal could be had without giving up Fox, Monk, Murray and Sabonis.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#666
#666
jiimbob said:
Terrible contract but i’m intrigued. Especially as it sounds like Beal could be had without giving up Fox, Monk, Murray and Sabonis.
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Exactly and Monte better let them know that, and the way I look at it is in this scenario the Kings will be paying that money to players anyway without the potential of ever adding a talent of this level to the team unless they let some of the same pieces potentially being moved in this deal go at some point to do it. And even then you're playing the FA game. If the Kings can solidify a top 3 talent core I think bringing back someone like Monk as your 6th man, even at a hefty price is far easier to swallow. Monte has a rare opportunity with a bit of wiggle room on his cap to make a deal like this work once FA begins.

My concern is the Warriors step up to the plate with something around Kuminga/Poole. I'm sure the Wiz want future picks though and if the Warriors do that I think they're making a major mistake considering the age of their team. By the time a distant pick conveys they might be in rebuild territory. The other team is the Blazers being just as dumb and moving their top pick in a deal like this. If they do that the Kings can't beat it likely even with all their chips in unless Beal's like, nope, I want to light the beam.
 
J

jiimbob

Starter
#667
#667
SacTownKid said:
Exactly and Monte better let them know that, and the way I look at it is in this scenario the Kings will be paying that money to players anyway without the potential of ever adding a talent of this level to the team unless they let some of the same pieces potentially being moved in this deal go at some point to do it. And even then you're playing the FA game. If the Kings can solidify a top 3 talent core I think bringing back someone like Monk as your 6th man, even at a hefty price is far easier to swallow. Monte has a rare opportunity with a bit of wiggle room on his cap to make a deal like this work once FA begins.

My concern is the Warriors step up to the plate with something around Kuminga/Poole. I'm sure the Wiz want future picks though and if the Warriors do that I think they're making a major mistake considering the age of their team. By the time a distant pick conveys they might be in rebuild territory. The other team is the Blazers being just as dumb and moving their top pick in a deal like this. If they do that the Kings can't beat it likely even with all their chips in unless Beal's like, nope, I want to light the beam.
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That would be a hell of a team. Sorry, i’m not as impressed as some by Huerter, he and Barnes choked against the Warriors IMO and I was always a big Barnes advocate. Now I feel sign and trade him if possible.
Kings would need to fill some big defensive needs with that core but that shouldn’t be too big a ask considering the potential.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#669
#669
Reverend said:
I think the guy you’d want to target there if they are going full rebuild that’d make sense is KP
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he is the best fit but I can’t get past the injury history. Last year was one of his only healthy years. Add that to to the questionable personality and his need to be a top 2-3 option and I probably pass. He was really good last season though
 
S

serbiangoat

Starter
#671
#671
iowamcnabb said:
he is the best fit but I can’t get past the injury history. Last year was one of his only healthy years. Add that to to the questionable personality and his need to be a top 2-3 option and I probably pass. He was really good last season though
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I'm sure he would be happy sharing the court with another Baltic bro. I reckon he'd be a perfect 2nd option it's good he wants to be a 1/2 because Sabonis is a #3 option I think.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#672
#672
Reverend said:
I think the guy you’d want to target there if they are going full rebuild that’d make sense is KP
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We haven't really heard anything about Porzingis getting moved. Last it sounded like he was going to opt in. I think the Wizards are going to look to not fully rebuild. Franchises like that always seem to do things half ***. We all know what that looks like too, lol. My guess is they'll be holding onto him but if he were gettable he should also be on the target list for talent upgrades.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#673
#673
serbiangoat said:
I'm sure he would be happy sharing the court with another Baltic bro. I reckon he'd be a perfect 2nd option it's good he wants to be a 1/2 because Sabonis is a #3 option I think.
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I’m biased of course but I want that 2/3 scoring option to go to Keegan. Or at least the opportunity to earn it. If you bring in a Zinger/Kuzma type you are relegating keegan to a 10-14 points a game type of situation. He’s too talented for that role in my opinion
 
See_Hanks

See_Hanks

Bench
#674
#674
jiimbob said:
That would be a hell of a team. Sorry, i’m not as impressed as some by Huerter, he and Barnes choked against the Warriors IMO and I was always a big Barnes advocate. Now I feel sign and trade him if possible.
Kings would need to fill some big defensive needs with that core but that shouldn’t be too big a ask considering the potential.
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NOPE.. Why break up a team that has only a year together, who achieved the 3rd seed in the west out of nowhere? Why on earth would you break that team up without at least seeing if they can grow together and maybe bring a championship?
 
See_Hanks

See_Hanks

Bench
#675
#675
So, I have been a Randle fan (Julius Randle) for a while and I think he will put us near the top as a rebounding team. Only doing this if Barnes is not here next year because we would have to move Murray to SF. I would also like to draft Kris Murray. I would rather have Barnes though to grow this team.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#676
#676
See_Hanks said:
NOPE.. Why break up a team that has only a year together, who achieved the 3rd seed in the west out of nowhere? Why on earth would you break that team up without at least seeing if they can grow together and maybe bring a championship?
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Partly because this team isn't likely to be able to hold onto all the pieces they do have. Beyond that teams dont depth their way to rings anyway. Look at the finals, count the bodies. The 8 1/2 man rotation still holds true. The great thing about not really signing players to any crippling deals is there isn't much risk. Until it overachieves that is. Then those cheap, short deals work out of your favor. Monk has one year left. Davion's rookie deal runs out at some point. Barnes has to be re-signed now. It's the same reason why Petrie moved on from players like Hedo and Bobby before it got dicey.
 
C

cwebb2002

Bench
#677
#677
Id be interested in making a run at Wiggins. I am not sure there is a deal to be made for him, but:

GSW gets: 2026 FRP (top 10 protected), 2 SRPs, holmes and Davion.

SAC: Wiggins.

Why for GSW: they save 7 million up front and split the contract into more moveable pieces if mitchell and holmes dont work and both are on shorter deals. I dont see GSW competing for another chip as long as Draymond, Klay, Poole, and Wiggins are draining a collective $125M in addition to the $51M that steph will make. Problems for them is Draymond is likely going to opts in to his $27M and they just signed poole to stupid money ($28-30M) and no-one will likely touch Klay for his $43M this year, nor do i think they will like ti move on from Klay... So wiggins is the only piece people will want that can make a dent in your financials...plus they get a backup PG to hide poole defensively and allow him to be SG.

Why for SAC: While i hate to lose Davion, you gotta lose a good piece to get a better piece. You will add Wiggins who is an elite level defender with a far better offensive punch than HB (whose spot in the starting lineup he'd take). It allows you to move HB to the bench (if you resign him to a reasonable deal) bringing tremendous stability to the bench and some better length and defensive versatility while you continue to develop Kessler Edwards. It also enables you to run Wiggins, HB AND Murray together which is a long and reasonable defensive line up.
 
See_Hanks

See_Hanks

Bench
#678
#678
SacTownKid said:
Partly because this team isn't likely to be able to hold onto all the pieces they do have. Beyond that teams dont depth their way to rings anyway. Look at the finals, count the bodies. The 8 1/2 man rotation still holds true. The great thing about not really signing players to any crippling deals is there isn't much risk. Until it overachieves that is. Then those cheap, short deals work out of your favor. Monk has one year left. Davion's rookie deal runs out at some point. Barnes has to be re-signed now. It's the same reason why Petrie moved on from players like Hedo and Bobby before it got dicey.
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Fair enough. I see where you are coming from, but I would still like to see what this team can do. A 3rd seed from nothing in one year makes me thing we are a lot closer to a championship than most WC and EC teams. Now all we need to do is either hope Boston or Milwaukee is not in the finals next year when we make it there! :)
 
C

cwebb2002

Bench
#679
#679
See_Hanks said:
Fair enough. I see where you are coming from, but I would still like to see what this team can do. A 3rd seed from nothing in one year makes me thing we are a lot closer to a championship than most WC and EC teams. Now all we need to do is either hope Boston or Milwaukee is not in the finals next year when we make it there! :)
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But those pieces you need to close the gap are expensive. The nuggest sacrificed some depth and youth to go get Aaron Gordon especially a FRP. They sacrificed some depth to get KCP too. You move good pieces in larger numbers sacrificing depth to get better pieces which improve overall quality
 
C

cwebb2002

Bench
#682
#682
There is enough money to sign Barnes to a $12-15M and trey to an $8-10M contract and bring in other pieces like Wiggins or OG via trade. Still leaving you MLE and BAE (I don't think we used it last year)
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#683
#683
SacTownKid said:
And the Kuz to the Kings rumors are going to heat up for sure. Yeah, we'll match your KD with a Kuz. SMH. He'd bring some advantages but no. Not a fan. His numbers are fluff and he's not a defender. If for the right price he's a decent fall back but for 25-30, heck no. Not enough there there.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1670446134727172096
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Kuz is confusing to me. Standard number stuff doesn't like him, but like the super in the weeds nerdy numbers think he's super impactful. At least before last year, I haven't checked his past season.

Although I don't really get why you like Grant, but hate Kuzma. They're the same player
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#684
#684
The_Jamal said:
Kuz is confusing to me. Standard number stuff doesn't like him, but like the super in the weeds nerdy numbers think he's super impactful. At least before last year, I haven't checked his past season.

Although I don't really get why you like Grant, but hate Kuzma. They're the same player
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Vecenie seems to think Kuz is pretty impactful.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#685
#685
The_Jamal said:
Kuz is confusing to me. Standard number stuff doesn't like him, but like the super in the weeds nerdy numbers think he's super impactful. At least before last year, I haven't checked his past season.

Although I don't really get why you like Grant, but hate Kuzma. They're the same player
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He's definitely a much different player now. Has improved his playmaking quite a bit.

I remember a few years ago he annoyed me because of his stupid face and long pink sweater but now it's his play that is annoying because it's a lot more effective.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#686
#686
iowamcnabb said:
Vecenie seems to think Kuz is pretty impactful.
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Yeah you rarely find his level of playmaking from a wing. And smart people seem to think he's a great defender.

If you could reign in his shot selection to where he could become efficient scoring, then he'd be the incredibly desirable wing everyone wants. There absolutely is some bias with Kuz because he's not a super likeable dude
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#688
#688
The_Jamal said:
Kuz is confusing to me. Standard number stuff doesn't like him, but like the super in the weeds nerdy numbers think he's super impactful. At least before last year, I haven't checked his past season.

Although I don't really get why you like Grant, but hate Kuzma. They're the same player
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Diving into Kuzma's usg in relation to efficiency and TS%, the names he matches up to are ones like Oubre and Poole. And that's Kuz in his PEAK years in the role of 1st/2nd option with the ball. Every number says the dude is decent, but not a star. His actual production isn't even that much better than Barnes in a similar role. If you're a GM, you're better off paying someone like Oubre since at least he has a history of being able to defend at a higher level.

I'll tell you the difference between Grant and Kuz and you can see it in highlight packages between the two. Grant knows how to play within an offense much better. Grant is mostly always playing in the right spot off the ball or playing within the offense. Kuz does at times but he has these moments where his tunnel vision is pretty evident. This is the main reason why the Lakers were not so distraught about bailing on him in the first place.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#690
#690
The_Jamal said:
Yeah you rarely find his level of playmaking from a wing. And smart people seem to think he's a great defender.

If you could reign in his shot selection to where he could become efficient scoring, then he'd be the incredibly desirable wing everyone wants. There absolutely is some bias with Kuz because he's not a super likeable dude
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The question you ask is what is his role with the Kings, what do you need, and what kind of value do you associate with that? Kuz had a role with the Wizards that he likely won't have with the Kings even though they do need a player with the same similar individual focus offensively but even if he does, is it enough for the needs of the team?

Lets look at Kuz' production last season. To put it into perspective Kuz took around a half a shot less per game less than Fox did for the Kings last year. Within his offensive role Kuz had the 27th-30th highest usg in the NBA among qualifying players, and as I said above was very close in efficiency and true shooting percentage to names like Oubre, Poole, Westbrook, and Keldon Johnson. Not bad players but super valuable? Eh. The issue with Kuz is he just simply doesn't draw contact. His free throw rate is around .20 for his career. That's really low and especially so if you're a player that hovers around 44% overall and mid to low 30's from 3 as a fairly high usage player. That's volume territory in a league where volume shots aren't the in thing. Kuz' defensive win share (not a fan of these deep cut stats myself but still) numbers have been pretty decent for his career but the best was when he was a bench guy on the Lakers. His offensive win shares are basically a FLAT 0 and a -1 last season. Since Jerami Grant wanted to be a main option and left his role player status he's been a plus on both share stats. For the last few seasons Grant's been around a 3 average. Kuz since joining the Wiz is about a 1 over his two seasons. Grant was around a .60 TS% last season with the Blazers and I think if the Kings did go after someone like Grant that's about the same role he'd have with the Kings so you can probably expect that to stick. With Detroit it was around Kuz level but the Pistons had no KP or Beal so he was pretty much 1 manning that.
 
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