[Game] Kings vs. Thunder [Vegas Summer League] 7/13/2022 5pm Pacific, 8pm Eastern (NBATV)

[Kings49ers]

Guess you missed the Lillard comparison earlier lol.

And BJ trade was only brought up after someone suggested it was foolish to even put BJ in same league as Murray.

I don't think once I've bashed rook. In fact I'm pleasantly surprised.

If he comes close to Hali as far as potential we have a winner, but I'm not sure why people are so disgusted with the thought of trading someone when we litterslly just traded a promising young talent on a rookie deal less than 6 months ago

There’s no Lillard comparison hahaha, the user who posted that very blatantly and obviously sarcastically made fun of anyone who’s take away was going to be that. The tweet was statistically comparing Keegan during SL to Lillard. Statistically. That’s it.

RJ has shown for two years he belongs in the NBA, he doesn’t really move the needle at this point when it comes to his teams ability to win. I’ll say it again to clear up confusion, at this point in his career. Could he get better? Sure, no one’s saying that he won’t and he’s flashed talent. But after just trading a promising rookie less than 6 months ago I think it’s fairly clear that people don’t want to do that again. Keegan is at Hali’s level yet obviously, the man hasn’t even played an NBA game. But his SL performances have people excited, and are stating that they’d prefer not to bail on young talent so recently drafted again. This “trade idea” again is completely hypothetical nonsense that actually holds no value. All that it shows is Kings fans are excited about Murray. Knicks fans are excited about Brunson and possibly/likely Mitchell. Read from that what you will but fans get excited about the new aspects of their team that have the potential to lead to more success.

 

[Rob-The-Great]

There’s no Lillard comparison hahaha, the user who posted that very blatantly and obviously sarcastically made fun of anyone who’s take away was going to be that. The tweet was statistically comparing Keegan during SL to Lillard. Statistically. That’s it.

RJ has shown for two years he belongs in the NBA, he doesn’t really move the needle at this point when it comes to his teams ability to win. I’ll say it again to clear up confusion, at this point in his career. Could he get better? Sure, no one’s saying that he won’t and he’s flashed talent. But after just trading a promising rookie less than 6 months ago I think it’s fairly clear that people don’t want to do that again. Keegan is at Hali’s level yet obviously, the man hasn’t even played an NBA game. But his SL performances have people excited, and are stating that they’d prefer not to bail on young talent so recently drafted again. This “trade idea” again is completely hypothetical nonsense that actually holds no value. All that it shows is Kings fans are excited about Murray. Knicks fans are excited about Brunson and possibly/likely Mitchell. Read from that what you will but fans get excited about the new aspects of their team that have the potential to lead to more success.

I mean thats kind of what I said too sir. I stated I was very happy about Murray's performance. Just had a few questions. I think he was the 5th best prospect this year, just one from whwre he was drafted. No big deal, was just in the wish we got him and more (greedy) camp.

These are just hypothetical trades anyway no way in hell he gets traded before he plays a game.......u less it's for durant....Durant.....

I spoke to durant yesterday via Twitter and he said he's down to go to Sac. We just need a time machine to draft him and he's in

 

[New Era]

So when are the Kings going to hire Baja as a draft consultant? Or....do they just view the forum and get his picks for free?

 

[Rain man]

Your takeaway from that Banchero vs. Murray match up is hahaha Banchero was shut down after a 30% shooting and near ten turnover game? Banchero was a clear level above Murray. Bigger, more athletic, and more skill. Only advantage Murray has over Banchero is his shooting. Barring injury, Banchero is the ROTY.

And, yes, Giddey is a second year player, who is still 2 or so years younger than Murray. Giddey didn't belong in SL. That's obvious. But to say Murray was the best player in SL means you're (not you, the OG poster above) overlooking players like Banchero and Giddey.

So we can watch another guy’s summer league performance and declare, based on that, that he is the ROY. But our guy can show up, blow people away, and look like one of the best players at SL, but we have to asterisk that as “just summer league,” “can’t get excited,” or “bare minimum?”

Just want to make sure I know where the goalposts are before you and others move them again.

 

[Spike]

Purely? So Ivey showed no acual skill just potential? You must get likes strictly because you've been posting a long time. Again it'd summer league you take a proven allstar over a rookie anyway. You should have learned that with Hali and Sabonis trade.

It's better to burn out, than to fade away.

 

[Ronw]

Giddey didn't belong in SL.

Banchero was head and shoulders above his competition. If he's not gaining much from SL, what's the point of playing him and risking injury? Just let him focus on the practice runs with the starters.

Banchero was definitely not head and shoulders above Keegan,yes he is gonna be great and he meets the eye test,but him and Keegan was neck n neck that game and imo Keeg outplayed him,he was way more efficient and just played better.I do like Banchero alot though

 

[Tetsujin]

Purely? So Ivey showed no acual skill just potential? You must get likes strictly because you've been posting a long time. Again it'd summer league you take a proven allstar over a rookie anyway. You should have learned that with Hali and Sabonis trade.

In what sense of the word, pray tell, is RJ Barrett a proven all-star?

 

[TaxMan]

Giddey didn't belong in SL.

Banchero was head and shoulders above his competition. If he's not gaining much from SL, what's the point of playing him and risking injury? Just let him focus on the practice runs with the starters.

So a basketball player, playing the game of basketball, at a higher level than his previous college experience, is not gaining anything from summer league? I’m glad the guy we got seems to want to work on his game.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1547742827458600960

 

[Hoovtrain]

So when are the Kings going to hire Baja as a draft consultant? Or....do they just view the forum and get his picks for free?

i know it’s just summer league, but his assessment looks spot on.

 

[kb02]

So a basketball player, playing the game of basketball, at a higher level than his previous college experience, is not gaining anything from summer league? I’m glad the guy we got seems to want to work on his game.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1547742827458600960

These guys are practicing with the regulars in Vegas, so they’re getting experience. Each team is different, but injuries should be a consideration in SL when you got journeyman and undrafted kids doing their own thing on the court.

 

[kb02]

Just leave it before you get Stoned!

It’s fun. And funny to see so much hopium after 5,840+ days of excellence.

 

[Kings49ers]

It’s fun. And funny to see so much hopium after 5,840+ days of excellence.

I like you haha, I really do. But you do understand what a fan is correct?

 

[The_Jamal]

Guess you missed the Lillard comparison earlier lol.

And BJ trade was only brought up after someone suggested it was foolish to even put BJ in same league as Murray.

I don't think once I've bashed rook. In fact I'm pleasantly surprised.

If he comes close to Hali as far as potential we have a winner, but I'm not sure why people are so disgusted with the thought of trading someone when we litterslly just traded a promising young talent on a rookie deal less than 6 months ago

Yes, always remember that because Keegan scored as many points in SL as Dame did (and the most in the last 10 years for a top 10 pick), that he's the next Dame Lillard. That's my take moving forward.

 

[TaxMan]

These guys are practicing with the regulars in Vegas, so they’re getting experience. Each team is different, but injuries should be a consideration in SL when you got journeyman and undrafted kids doing their own thing on the court.

Why even practice? I’ve never understood why practice drills and scrimmages hold less of an injury risk than playing in a game.

 

[kb02]

Why even practice? I’ve never understood why practice drills and scrimmages hold less of an injury risk than playing in a game.

Did you not see #25 doing his own thing for OKC last night? Or Rhoden on the Kings? If you got dudes trying to get a contract, going 110% on both sides of the ball, it increases the chances of off schedule plays and chaos. Practice is generally more controlled.

 

[TaxMan]

It’s fun. And funny to see so much hopium after 5,840+ days of excellence.

What’s more pathetic…. A bunch of die hard fans with blind optimism? Or spending one’s time taking pleasure crapping all over it?

 

[kb02]

I like you haha, I really do. But you do understand what a fan is correct?

Correct? I chose not to answer your previous reply, because you took the entire thing out of context and went onto a bunch of qualifiers. When one poster says KM was the best SL player and I respond with two players, who were just as good if not better than KM, folks read it as a diss and start throwing out qualifiers. But, but, but Giddey was a second year! True. So does that mean KM is the best first year player in SL? Then how do you account for Banchero? So does that mean KM is the best first year SL player, who has played more than two SL games? Where do the qualifiers end? KM has had a good SL, he’s going to be a solid 3rd option next year, but these proclamations that he’s going to be a superstar with 40%+ 3 pt shooting is going too far. It’s about as accurate as dudes claiming he was going to be Tatum 2.0 with his non-existent face up game prior to SL.

 

[PorchSurfin]

Did you not see #25 doing his own thing for OKC last night? Or Rhoden on the Kings? If you got dudes trying to get a contract, going 110% on both sides of the ball, it increases the chances of off schedule plays and chaos. Practice is generally more controlled.

To that point, going against a higher level in practice definitely doesn't help going against a lower level, more frenetic game in real time. Especially not for a high IQ player who's game is getting to open spots and working from a position of strength.

 

[kb02]

What’s more pathetic…. A bunch of die hard fans with blind optimism? Or spending one’s time taking pleasure crapping all over it?

Crapping? What exactly have I said about KM that has been so crapping? Can you provide a direct quote of me saying he would be a bust or that he sucks?

 

[kb02]

To that point, going against a higher level in practice definitely doesn't help going against a lower level, more frenetic game in real time. Especially not for a high IQ player who's game is getting to open spots and working from a position of strength.

Sure, but how much of that do u want to risk? I’ve been undercut in hoops by dudes playing at a diff pace than what the game warranted. We all have. Not fun. Maybe not worth it.

 

[SLAB]

Crapping? What exactly have I said about KM that has been so crapping? Can you provide a direct quote of me saying he would be a bust or that he sucks?

Word. I’ve apparently been “looking for a reason to dislike him from day 1” or whatever just because I wanted someone else, threw a bit of a tantrum and left for a minute, and haven’t screamed his hyperbole from the heavens since I got back.

I’m pretty sure the “worst” thing I’ve said about him is dude can’t dribble right now. And is that really telling any sort of lie?

 

[The_Jamal]

Correct? I chose not to answer your previous reply, because you took the entire thing out of context and went onto a bunch of qualifiers. When one poster says KM was the best SL player and I respond with two players, who were just as good if not better than KM, folks read it as a diss and start throwing out qualifiers. But, but, but Giddey was a second year! True. So does that mean KM is the best first year player in SL? Then how do you account for Banchero? So does that mean KM is the best first year SL player, who has played more than two SL games? Where do the qualifiers end? KM has had a good SL, he’s going to be a solid 3rd option next year, but these proclamations that he’s going to be a superstar with 40%+ 3 pt shooting is going too far. It’s about as accurate as dudes claiming he was going to be Tatum 2.0 with his non-existent face up game prior to SL.

Keegan outplayed Paolo and Giddey at SL.

"Best player at SL" =/= "Best player"

Context

 

[PorchSurfin]

Sure, but how much of that do u want to risk? I’ve been undercut in hoops by dudes playing at a diff pace than what the game warranted. We all have. Not fun. Maybe not worth it.

Murray doesn't play like that. He is super under control. I'm not worried about him getting hurt by playing out of control or being too athletic. If he was going to be shut down for SL it's because he is too smart for the game but even then, I would rather him get in game experience doing like DC said and experimenting being more aggressive.

To one of your recent points I want to touch on. Banchero didn't "outplay" Murray. He flashed more ability to be a playmaker if he learns more control. The natural ability can be seen, but it's still too wild and unless he develops his IQ it won't go anywhere.

Basketball IQ is a funny thing. Take Tyreke Evans for example. He had all the physical tools to be the beat at his position but none of the IQ to do so. While Evans is an extreme example, and one that the Kings no doubt botched, it is a prime example of high ceiling vs high floor.

Banchero is a smart dude and I have no doubts he will figure it out. But he still wasn't better than Murray when they played. Looking at the overall game work (and taking "potential" out of it), Murray outplayed him. He did better. You can't argue that.

So call a spade a spade man.

And btw, Daniels would have been a worse pick and won't be as good as Murray. You need to own that and everytime you have an opinion on Murray bring up what Daniels is doing that's better.

 

[Kings49ers]

Correct? I chose not to answer your previous reply, because you took the entire thing out of context and went onto a bunch of qualifiers. When one poster says KM was the best SL player and I respond with two players, who were just as good if not better than KM, folks read it as a diss and start throwing out qualifiers. But, but, but Giddey was a second year! True. So does that mean KM is the best first year player in SL? Then how do you account for Banchero? So does that mean KM is the best first year SL player, who has played more than two SL games? Where do the qualifiers end? KM has had a good SL, he’s going to be a solid 3rd option next year, but these proclamations that he’s going to be a superstar with 40%+ 3 pt shooting is going too far. It’s about as accurate as dudes claiming he was going to be Tatum 2.0 with his non-existent face up game prior to SL.

Nobody is creating all these qualifiers except for yourself haha. You continue to bring in outside reasons as to why Keegan hasn’t looked great in SL. Nobody, to my recollection has already designated Keegan a superstar. In fact the only definite, set in stone proclamation made that I remember is you saying Banchero was rookie of the year already as long as he doesn’t get injured. Most people excited about Keegan have not argued the fact at all that Keegan is likely to be the 3rd option if not 4th with the Huerter and Monk being brought into the fold. Along those lines, a rookie stepping into an NBA team and immediately becoming the third option as you said while also showing ability to maintain efficiency is pretty exciting.

You’ve chosen to ignore and not respond to most of my responses or comments in regards to what you’ve said. In regards to Tatum 2.0 comments, I don’t remember them nor did I make them. Those admittedly seem silly. But if that’s your schtick here because one person provided an overreached comparison then I don’t know what to tell you. Wasn’t me yet that seems to be the grudge you can’t let go. Statistically speaking and impact while on the floor for his teams, Keegan has hung with the best of any players who participated in SL. Second year player, other players drafted in the lottery and everybody else. That’s not out of context, that’s not opinion, that’s not fanatical bias. That’s fact. There’s actual numbers and recorded data you can go look at. Most people here aren’t trying to convince anyone that Keegan will be the best player drafted from this class, merely he’s performed with the best of them this SL. That’s literally it.

 

[PorchSurfin]

Correct? I chose not to answer your previous reply, because you took the entire thing out of context and went onto a bunch of qualifiers. When one poster says KM was the best SL player and I respond with two players, who were just as good if not better than KM, folks read it as a diss and start throwing out qualifiers. But, but, but Giddey was a second year! True. So does that mean KM is the best first year player in SL? Then how do you account for Banchero? So does that mean KM is the best first year SL player, who has played more than two SL games? Where do the qualifiers end? KM has had a good SL, he’s going to be a solid 3rd option next year, but these proclamations that he’s going to be a superstar with 40%+ 3 pt shooting is going too far. It’s about as accurate as dudes claiming he was going to be Tatum 2.0 with his non-existent face up game prior to SL.

Crapping? What exactly have I said about KM that has been so crapping? Can you provide a direct quote of me saying he would be a bust or that he sucks?

Lmao you too shrewd to come out and say those exact things. With you, it's all about condescension. Couple of not so vague inferences is what to expect here.

 

[kb02]

Nobody is creating all these qualifiers except for yourself haha. You continue to bring in outside reasons as to why Keegan hasn’t looked great in SL. Nobody, to my recollection has already designated Keegan a superstar. In fact the only definite, set in stone proclamation made that I remember is you saying Banchero was rookie of the year already as long as he doesn’t get injured. Most people excited about Keegan have not argued the fact at all that Keegan is likely to be the 3rd option if not 4th with the Huerter and Monk being brought into the fold. Along those lines, a rookie stepping into an NBA team and immediately becoming the third option as you said while also showing ability to maintain efficiency is pretty exciting.

You’ve chosen to ignore and not respond to most of my responses or comments in regards to what you’ve said. In regards to Tatum 2.0 comments, I don’t remember them nor did I make them. Those admittedly seem silly. But if that’s your schtick here because one person provided an overreached comparison then I don’t know what to tell you. Wasn’t me yet that seems to be the grudge you can’t let go. Statistically speaking and impact while on the floor for his teams, Keegan has hung with the best of any players who participated in SL. Second year player, other players drafted in the lottery and everybody else. That’s not out of context, that’s not opinion, that’s not fanatical bias. That’s fact. There’s actual numbers and recorded data you can go look at. Most people here aren’t trying to convince anyone that Keegan will be the best player drafted from this class, merely he’s performed with the best of them this SL. That’s literally it.

So saying comparing KM to Kuz, who was the SL MVP n put up similar numbers = Murray does not look great?!? Okay.

As for the Banchero ROTY statement, if u we’re here, u’d know that I’ve been saying that since March.

 

[kb02]

Murray doesn't play like that. He is super under control. I'm not worried about him getting hurt by playing out of control or being too athletic. If he was going to be shut down for SL it's because he is too smart for the game but even then, I would rather him get in game experience doing like DC said and experimenting being more aggressive.

To one of your recent points I want to touch on. Banchero didn't "outplay" Murray. He flashed more ability to be a playmaker if he learns more control. The natural ability can be seen, but it's still too wild and unless he develops his IQ it won't go anywhere.

Basketball IQ is a funny thing. Take Tyreke Evans for example. He had all the physical tools to be the beat at his position but none of the IQ to do so. While Evans is an extreme example, and one that the Kings no doubt botched, it is a prime example of high ceiling vs high floor.

Banchero is a smart dude and I have no doubts he will figure it out. But he still wasn't better than Murray when they played. Looking at the overall game work (and taking "potential" out of it), Murray outplayed him. He did better. You can't argue that.

So call a spade a spade man.

And btw, Daniels would have been a worse pick and won't be as good as Murray. You need to own that and everytime you have an opinion on Murray bring up what Daniels is doing that's better.

Duarte + Daniels > Murray. Sure. Frame. It.

 

[kb02]

Keegan outplayed Paolo and Giddey at SL.

"Best player at SL" =/= "Best player"

Context

For sure, future super star.

 

[The_Jamal]

Nobody is creating all these qualifiers except for yourself haha. You continue to bring in outside reasons as to why Keegan hasn’t looked great in SL. Nobody, to my recollection has already designated Keegan a superstar. In fact the only definite, set in stone proclamation made that I remember is you saying Banchero was rookie of the year already as long as he doesn’t get injured. Most people excited about Keegan have not argued the fact at all that Keegan is likely to be the 3rd option if not 4th with the Huerter and Monk being brought into the fold. Along those lines, a rookie stepping into an NBA team and immediately becoming the third option as you said while also showing ability to maintain efficiency is pretty exciting.

You’ve chosen to ignore and not respond to most of my responses or comments in regards to what you’ve said. In regards to Tatum 2.0 comments, I don’t remember them nor did I make them. Those admittedly seem silly. But if that’s your schtick here because one person provided an overreached comparison then I don’t know what to tell you. Wasn’t me yet that seems to be the grudge you can’t let go. Statistically speaking and impact while on the floor for his teams, Keegan has hung with the best of any players who participated in SL. Second year player, other players drafted in the lottery and everybody else. That’s not out of context, that’s not opinion, that’s not fanatical bias. That’s fact. There’s actual numbers and recorded data you can go look at. Most people here aren’t trying to convince anyone that Keegan will be the best player drafted from this class, merely he’s performed with the best of them this SL. That’s literally it.

1. Keegan Murray was the best player in SL.
2. Keegan Murray has a few things he really needs to improve. Mainly lateral movement with his perimeter defense, his handle and shot creation.
3. Everyone is very excited about the skills Murray flashed and how much they can be elevated playing next to 2 elite playmakers in Fox/Sabonis that draw so much attention. The shot looks far better than advertised and the C&S/off-movement shooting at 6'8 is incredibly intriguing with this core.
4. He has to prove it when the minutes count.

By my estimation, that's the SL wrap-up with Keegan. Amazing start to his career, has some key areas to improve, his shooting looks special and there's a lot of potential excitement how he fits in between Fox/Sabonis.

 

[PorchSurfin]

Nobody is creating all these qualifiers except for yourself haha. You continue to bring in outside reasons as to why Keegan hasn’t looked great in SL. Nobody, to my recollection has already designated Keegan a superstar. In fact the only definite, set in stone proclamation made that I remember is you saying Banchero was rookie of the year already as long as he doesn’t get injured. Most people excited about Keegan have not argued the fact at all that Keegan is likely to be the 3rd option if not 4th with the Huerter and Monk being brought into the fold. Along those lines, a rookie stepping into an NBA team and immediately becoming the third option as you said while also showing ability to maintain efficiency is pretty exciting.

You’ve chosen to ignore and not respond to most of my responses or comments in regards to what you’ve said. In regards to Tatum 2.0 comments, I don’t remember them nor did I make them. Those admittedly seem silly. But if that’s your schtick here because one person provided an overreached comparison then I don’t know what to tell you. Wasn’t me yet that seems to be the grudge you can’t let go. Statistically speaking and impact while on the floor for his teams, Keegan has hung with the best of any players who participated in SL. Second year player, other players drafted in the lottery and everybody else. That’s not out of context, that’s not opinion, that’s not fanatical bias. That’s fact. There’s actual numbers and recorded data you can go look at. Most people here aren’t trying to convince anyone that Keegan will be the best player drafted from this class, merely he’s performed with the best of them this SL. That’s literally it.

I dont think the Tatum comparison is ridiculous.

In fact, I think Tatum had a lot of the same question marks coming out of college, the high floor low ceiling being the most spoken.

Tatum has been in the league what, five years now? It probably isn't the biggest reach to think in 5 years Murray could be very similar.

Edit:

I think a lot of problems with comparisons is people think of the peak of that comparison player, without taking in to consideration the beginning, as well as the work they put in to reach that peak.