[Game] Kings vs. Thunder [Vegas Summer League] 7/13/2022 5pm Pacific, 8pm Eastern (NBATV)
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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I know this isn't the popular take but she's being trained to be the future owner, not the future GM. And that's a good thing when you consider how many franchise crippling mistakes Vivek may have had his hands in during the first ~8 years of his ownership.
Just look at the mess Jody Allen is making in Portland even though she is supposedly just a temporary steward. Anjali is an assistant GM in Stockton, she probably has as much daily duties pertaining to the cost of a hot dog as she does in player acquisition and development.
Just look at the mess Jody Allen is making in Portland even though she is supposedly just a temporary steward. Anjali is an assistant GM in Stockton, she probably has as much daily duties pertaining to the cost of a hot dog as she does in player acquisition and development.
Kyle Kuzma averaged 22 points, 6 boards, 3 assists, 1 block, and 1 steal per game in SL. Kuz was 21 going on 22 that summer. He even put a 30 and 10 game in the SL championship: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...2017-las-vegas-nba-summer-league-championship.
His career, thus far, is that of a third option, stretch 4 with okay defense. Averaging 16 points, 6 boards, 2 assists, .6 blocks, and .5 steals per game.
He is Keegan’s comp. High floor, low ceiling, 3rd option. Keegan’s offensive production will be solid, but his ceiling will depend almost entirely on his defensive versatility. If Keegan can defend 3-5, he’s well worth the 4th pick. If he ends up like Kuz and can defend only 4s and some 3s, #4 will end up being too high.
His career, thus far, is that of a third option, stretch 4 with okay defense. Averaging 16 points, 6 boards, 2 assists, .6 blocks, and .5 steals per game.
He is Keegan’s comp. High floor, low ceiling, 3rd option. Keegan’s offensive production will be solid, but his ceiling will depend almost entirely on his defensive versatility. If Keegan can defend 3-5, he’s well worth the 4th pick. If he ends up like Kuz and can defend only 4s and some 3s, #4 will end up being too high.
Those are not the only 2 possible outcomes. If Kuz shot 40% from 3 on high volume, had great hands, and excellent off ball movement (increasing his gravity immensely); that player would absolutely worth the 4th pick in the draft.
It’s not about Keegan’s excellent summer league numbers. It’s also about how he’s scoring and his approach to the game. He has blown me away.
And I’m a guy that would have traded Fox for RJ Barrett and 11 and drafted Ivey. I would not trade Murray for RJ Barrett right now. Murray and Huerter are going to open up the King’s offense in a way that increases the efficiency of every other player.
And Murray tries on defense. That commitment matters.
It’s not about Keegan’s excellent summer league numbers. It’s also about how he’s scoring and his approach to the game. He has blown me away.
And I’m a guy that would have traded Fox for RJ Barrett and 11 and drafted Ivey. I would not trade Murray for RJ Barrett right now. Murray and Huerter are going to open up the King’s offense in a way that increases the efficiency of every other player.
And Murray tries on defense. That commitment matters.
In this draft imo he definitely was a top 4 pick,we none can read the future with the other picks and I think potential is sometimes overated, there were a lot of potentially superstars in recent NBA drafts that just never made it,this was the right pick and definitely worth number 2 if all he ever is,is a Kyle kuzma
I don't get why people get offended by calling someone a high floor guy this normally indicates a productive 10 year+ career, smart player that will most likely help you in. Most the times these guy's are far more productive than 95% of high ceiling guys who wash out of the league. I personally also don't see a high ceiling in Murray but a high floor helps and is a sure thing he's just got certain athletic/skill limitations that prevent him from being a high ceiling guy which is fine. He's clearly got good IQ and understanding of the game to bypass them and be productive.
I was just about to bring up Wiggins in relation to Barrett lol.
Barrett is a little better than Wiggins at the same point in their careers but he has the same issue where he doesn't impact winning, yet he takes up a large percentage of your offense. That's a large percentage of a team's game that isn't helping them win much. He has room to improve but he faltered in his 3rd year, despite his scoring going up. That just means he's shooting with more volume. It's kind of like the same issue with Buddy. He can go out and get you 20ppg but it might take him 20 shots to do it many nights. Not what you want.
I think the metrics will show that Murray at 12ppg is more impactful than RJ at 20ppg but we'll have to find out.
Barrett is a little better than Wiggins at the same point in their careers but he has the same issue where he doesn't impact winning, yet he takes up a large percentage of your offense. That's a large percentage of a team's game that isn't helping them win much. He has room to improve but he faltered in his 3rd year, despite his scoring going up. That just means he's shooting with more volume. It's kind of like the same issue with Buddy. He can go out and get you 20ppg but it might take him 20 shots to do it many nights. Not what you want.
I think the metrics will show that Murray at 12ppg is more impactful than RJ at 20ppg but we'll have to find out.
I’m very excited about Murray. He’s not just a great immediate fit for the Kings but I actually view him as a great long term prospect too. None of his “weaknesses” are glaring to me and I actually see him having good defensive potential. He’s already a guy who can make a lot of big defensive plays.
but so far, most of the criticism I see of him is basically that he isn’t great at everything…but he’s not particularly bad at anything in my view. All of his weaknesses have light at the end of the tunnel. Also, a lot his percieved weaknesses are things that won’t be particularly relevant on the main roster as they are as the main option on a college team and one of the only good guys on a summer league team…like his ball handling. In my view, he can handle it a little bit and a little bit may be all the Kings need from him for a few years.
Maybe he doesn’t project as a franchise player..but people talking like being a 3rd option on what is hopefully a winning team in the future isn’t worth a top 10 pick. More than half of the top 10 will bust or be modest rotation players. If you can get a perennial 35 minute a game starter, that is a winner, and a legit “third option” ..you should probably be more happy with the pick unless a surefire superstar was passed on. I’m not seeing that here. Not like Bagley who could’ve been an all star and a great fit bit likely still wouldn’t make up for taking him over Luka. I think the Murray will prove to be a perfect pick for the Kings at 4. He may even turn out to be a steal.
but so far, most of the criticism I see of him is basically that he isn’t great at everything…but he’s not particularly bad at anything in my view. All of his weaknesses have light at the end of the tunnel. Also, a lot his percieved weaknesses are things that won’t be particularly relevant on the main roster as they are as the main option on a college team and one of the only good guys on a summer league team…like his ball handling. In my view, he can handle it a little bit and a little bit may be all the Kings need from him for a few years.
Maybe he doesn’t project as a franchise player..but people talking like being a 3rd option on what is hopefully a winning team in the future isn’t worth a top 10 pick. More than half of the top 10 will bust or be modest rotation players. If you can get a perennial 35 minute a game starter, that is a winner, and a legit “third option” ..you should probably be more happy with the pick unless a surefire superstar was passed on. I’m not seeing that here. Not like Bagley who could’ve been an all star and a great fit bit likely still wouldn’t make up for taking him over Luka. I think the Murray will prove to be a perfect pick for the Kings at 4. He may even turn out to be a steal.
You don't pick purely off of physical potential and you don't trade someone who's shown elite off-ball shooting potential who fits perfectly with the team you're building and is on a cheap rookie scale deal for the next four seasons for a guy who hasn't shown much (if any) of that and is about to make 180 million dollars. Not sure what's hard to grasp about that.
You're the one straw-manning Murray, not anyone else on KF or even twitter tbh. Basically everyone I've seen has been very reasonable with him; he's objectively been the best player in SL, he has a lot of things to still work on and we're excited how his skills can translate next to Fox/Sabonis. That's it.
I suppose I am talking to the guy who thinks Bagley is good, sooooo. Perhaps talking to a wall here.
I suppose I am talking to the guy who thinks Bagley is good, sooooo. Perhaps talking to a wall here.
With the way some people are talking about Murray, you would've thought he had a terrible SL showing... except, the reality is the exact opposite. He was the best player in the SL. I really have no clue what more the critics could've asked of him.
As someone who had Murray 7th/8th on my big board, and had a hard time buying into his game, he's got me on board now. He looked special out there in SL. The way he can move without the ball, scoring instincts, patience, etc. He's got all of the intangibles.
Listen to some of his interviews. I don't know how you can hate on a guy like that. His maturity on and off the court will go a long way. This isn't a Marvin-Luka situation. The same people who praise Ivey's limited showing in SL are the same ones saying Keegan hasn't proven anything against NBA guys (so it doesn't count). Can't have it both ways...
As someone who had Murray 7th/8th on my big board, and had a hard time buying into his game, he's got me on board now. He looked special out there in SL. The way he can move without the ball, scoring instincts, patience, etc. He's got all of the intangibles.
Listen to some of his interviews. I don't know how you can hate on a guy like that. His maturity on and off the court will go a long way. This isn't a Marvin-Luka situation. The same people who praise Ivey's limited showing in SL are the same ones saying Keegan hasn't proven anything against NBA guys (so it doesn't count). Can't have it both ways...
I get that. I feel like this board stands for something a little more than knee-jerk hot takes. (Or taeks, as @Mr. S£im Citrus likes to say.) I value new perspectives and opinions, even controversial ones, as long as they are reasoned out. We're the smartest and best looking on the internet (except for one, but you know who you are) for a reason.
Question kb02, what kind of search caused you to settle on Kuzma as a comparison??? Is there some Summer League database that you scoured for this I was thinking of a rich mans Sean Elliot is a good comparison
I was thinking of a rich mans Sean Elliot is a good comparisonAs for Elliot, I don't see the same handles. The athleticism, post knee injury, between Elliot and Murray are similar.
Keegan is a better shooter by a significant margin coming out of college.
Kuzma in his final year: 32.1% 3pt ---- 66.9% FT
Murray in his final year: 39.8% 3pt --- 74.7% FT
Not sure if you remember, but there was a lot of hype for Kuzma during his rookie year year. However, after his rookie year, his 3pt shooting and defense took a deep nose dive (not that his defense was all that good to start with). Kuzma was more worried about dating the hottest stars and being a celebrity in the Hollywood than improving his game.
Murray is the exact opposite. He doesn't care for the spotlight at all. He prefers Sacramento because he likes that it's like a midwest town in California.
I'm 10000% confident in saying that he will not turn into Kyle Kuzma...
Kuzma in his final year: 32.1% 3pt ---- 66.9% FT
Murray in his final year: 39.8% 3pt --- 74.7% FT
Not sure if you remember, but there was a lot of hype for Kuzma during his rookie year year. However, after his rookie year, his 3pt shooting and defense took a deep nose dive (not that his defense was all that good to start with). Kuzma was more worried about dating the hottest stars and being a celebrity in the Hollywood than improving his game.
Murray is the exact opposite. He doesn't care for the spotlight at all. He prefers Sacramento because he likes that it's like a midwest town in California.
I'm 10000% confident in saying that he will not turn into Kyle Kuzma...
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