The Official SPOILERS 2022 NBA Draft Thread
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Via Amick:
Yet while there seems to be some sort of unofficial consensus around the league that Sacramento is leading the way in terms of the negotiations, sources say the Kings' offer has thus far been seen as underwhelming by the Hawks. Kings small forward Harrison Barnes would go to Atlanta in the deal, and — to be clear — the Kings' No. 4 pick is not part of these discussions. If that were the case, it would likely be done already.
As Bleacher Report's Jake Fischer reported on Wednesday, sources confirm that there have been significant talks with San Antonio about a deal involving Collins and Spurs guard Dejounte Murray. Yet as of late last night, the Spurs' massive price was seen as exorbitant by the Hawks. A significant gap exists there, it seems, but it's still very much worth watching.
Yet while there seems to be some sort of unofficial consensus around the league that Sacramento is leading the way in terms of the negotiations, sources say the Kings' offer has thus far been seen as underwhelming by the Hawks. Kings small forward Harrison Barnes would go to Atlanta in the deal, and — to be clear — the Kings' No. 4 pick is not part of these discussions. If that were the case, it would likely be done already.
As Bleacher Report's Jake Fischer reported on Wednesday, sources confirm that there have been significant talks with San Antonio about a deal involving Collins and Spurs guard Dejounte Murray. Yet as of late last night, the Spurs' massive price was seen as exorbitant by the Hawks. A significant gap exists there, it seems, but it's still very much worth watching.
The tiresome part of this board is the assumption that Murray is a "fit" pick. The Ivey stans think Ivey is BPA at 4, and the Murray stans think Murray is BPA at 4. I don't want Murray because I think he is a better "fit" for the roster. I want Murray because I have watched a lot of both of them, and I think Murray is the better player. That is a possible explanation - that people think Murray is the better player.
That said, I am fully onboard with trying to maximize the value of the #4 pick and trade down to take Murray. If it is true that everyone has Ivey as consensus #4, then you are foolish to not try to trade down and get assets from someone who wants Ivey. But do we know (other than mock drafts) that Ivey is consensus #4? There have been several rumors that the Spurs and Pacers are trying to trade up for Murray, not Ivey. There also might be some reality that Detroit prefers Murray to Ivey. So if Murray is the guy that Monte thinks is BPA at #4, and others think Murray is BPA at #4 or #5 and are trying to trade up to get him, that makes trading down VERY risky. If you are Monte, that means you could trade down and miss out on your target.
Now I don't know that Monte thinks Murray is BPA at #4. But I know that I do. And given that I think Murray is BPA at #4, that Murray is the best fit for the roster, and that trading down no longer looks as clear cut because there could be people moving into 4 or 5 to take the guy I think is BPA at #4, then I lean toward standing pat at #4. Now if there is a move on the table where a trade down gets me really great assets, then maybe I am willing to live with the fact that I miss on Murray, but that really depends on the trade down offers that are there.
All of that is to say, I don't think staying pat at #4 and taking Murray means Monte messed this up, or is a "middle manager." It could mean (like it means for me) that Murray is BPA at #4, Murray is also best fit for our roster at #4, and there is not a "blow our socks off" offer available to move down and risk missing the guy we like.
That said, I am fully onboard with trying to maximize the value of the #4 pick and trade down to take Murray. If it is true that everyone has Ivey as consensus #4, then you are foolish to not try to trade down and get assets from someone who wants Ivey. But do we know (other than mock drafts) that Ivey is consensus #4? There have been several rumors that the Spurs and Pacers are trying to trade up for Murray, not Ivey. There also might be some reality that Detroit prefers Murray to Ivey. So if Murray is the guy that Monte thinks is BPA at #4, and others think Murray is BPA at #4 or #5 and are trying to trade up to get him, that makes trading down VERY risky. If you are Monte, that means you could trade down and miss out on your target.
Now I don't know that Monte thinks Murray is BPA at #4. But I know that I do. And given that I think Murray is BPA at #4, that Murray is the best fit for the roster, and that trading down no longer looks as clear cut because there could be people moving into 4 or 5 to take the guy I think is BPA at #4, then I lean toward standing pat at #4. Now if there is a move on the table where a trade down gets me really great assets, then maybe I am willing to live with the fact that I miss on Murray, but that really depends on the trade down offers that are there.
All of that is to say, I don't think staying pat at #4 and taking Murray means Monte messed this up, or is a "middle manager." It could mean (like it means for me) that Murray is BPA at #4, Murray is also best fit for our roster at #4, and there is not a "blow our socks off" offer available to move down and risk missing the guy we like.
He had me super excited for a hot minute when he first assumed ownership of the Kings. All he has done since is pretty much given all of us Indians a bad rep.
I, myself, am an Indian; Should I be scared? Worried?
Or...Do I just grab the cheapest bottle of anything, and drink my emotions away?
I, myself, am an Indian; Should I be scared? Worried?
Or...Do I just grab the cheapest bottle of anything, and drink my emotions away?
He had me super excited for a hot minute when he first assumed ownership of the Kings. All he has done since is pretty much given all of us Indians a bad rep.
I, myself, am an Indian; Should I be scared? Worried?
Or...Do I just grab the cheapest bottle of anything, and drink my emotions away?
I, myself, am an Indian; Should I be scared? Worried?
Or...Do I just grab the cheapest bottle of anything, and drink my emotions away?
I don't get the RJ love. Probably the biggest empty statter in the NBA currently. Dude needs to learn how to put the ball in the basket efficiently. Has Jabari Parker type overall impact written all over him to me. Counting stats look good but has almost zero effect on winning. Couple that with his usage rate and a big percentage of the NY offense is essentially just treading water when RJ is shooting. Just not looking too good after 3 years.
I'd much rather have Quickley and Toppin over RJ. They were both above average role players last year and neither have entered their prime.
I'd much rather have Quickley and Toppin over RJ. They were both above average role players last year and neither have entered their prime.
Is he going to do that with this team, in that role, at that position? If he gets the Lyles/Metu role that will hinder his value. I think Ivey is a little safer bet next to Sabonis and Fox because of his ability to attack both on and off the ball. Murray could certainly be more productive but you don't draft spot shooters at 4 if that's the main reason he'd be on your team.
Spot shooter? the kid fills the entire statsheet..
Lyles /Metu are backup types on low contracts... If the Kings draft Keegan Murray he's gonna start...
Name one player in college basketball that put up better stats than Keegan Murray across the board..
Jaden Ivey was ice cold from 3 for the last 2 months of the season... The Kings need shooting... He's not a match here...
Lyles /Metu are backup types on low contracts... If the Kings draft Keegan Murray he's gonna start...
Name one player in college basketball that put up better stats than Keegan Murray across the board..
Jaden Ivey was ice cold from 3 for the last 2 months of the season... The Kings need shooting... He's not a match here...
At the college level yes and not in playmaking which is where the value is at with production F types right now. As I've said, some things need to be put into context. At Iowa he was able to play a lot of center on defense in a zone. What you do in those stats sheet is largely dependent on which area of the floor you operate. I am of the opinion that Murray can be a gimmicky small ball C so that would actually allow him to do some of those same things.
I can name a player in his range already in the NBA and his name is Obi Toppin. And that is the beware story. The Knicks aren't using him for his productivity and they're paying for it. Yes, I do think that's largely their fault for sure but still true. Ivey right now is seen as the upside guy so if the Kings need to conjure up a nice trade for a star package at the deadline, who are you better off with? Murray, just like Davion last year, needs a team that will allow him to produce. Older players that come in and aren't allowed to do so crater in value almost as soon as you drive them off the lot. The short term solution is to win. Even if Murray is basically an upgraded Metu in terms of role, fans will swallow it. If not, well, fans/pundits will do what they did to Davion last year prior to him moving up in the pecking order post trade and decision to tank away.
I can name a player in his range already in the NBA and his name is Obi Toppin. And that is the beware story. The Knicks aren't using him for his productivity and they're paying for it. Yes, I do think that's largely their fault for sure but still true. Ivey right now is seen as the upside guy so if the Kings need to conjure up a nice trade for a star package at the deadline, who are you better off with? Murray, just like Davion last year, needs a team that will allow him to produce. Older players that come in and aren't allowed to do so crater in value almost as soon as you drive them off the lot. The short term solution is to win. Even if Murray is basically an upgraded Metu in terms of role, fans will swallow it. If not, well, fans/pundits will do what they did to Davion last year prior to him moving up in the pecking order post trade and decision to tank away.