Yeah. And I think one benefit if Ivey is with us is he won't have the pressure of becoming the lead-playmaker to add to his plate. Attack the rim, space and try on defense while giving secondary passing off Fox/Sabonis. If he ends up on a team where they'll look to him to be a Ja/Wall playmaker right out of the gate, he's going to struggle.
KINGS PICKING 4TH IN 2022 NBA DRAFT!
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Seems like a super versatile scorer no? He's gotten some detractors saying he's only a post-scorer than can't create for himself... but that just isn't reflective in the numbers. And as Pennie states in the 2nd tweet, he got better vs tougher comp later in the season. I think Keegan's offensive skill-set is damn near perfect because you can fit him with any team archetype; if you need him to space he can, if you need him to go get buckets, he can. He'll find a way to be a valuable offensive player.
And agreed on the passing. It's Keegan's major wart on his game. But I've said I'm willing to give him and Davis a pass until we see what they look like with NBA teammates. Both guys carried bad teams to really respectable tourney placements and there just wasn't very much offensive talent to help them. If Keegan (or Davis) weren't putting the ball in the hoop, no one else was. Doesn't mean they're automatically going to be playmakers at the NBA level, but both guys are such smart high-IQ players; it's hard to believe they won't find a way to at least be passable passers at the NBA level. I'll bet on the work ethic/offensive skill that they figure it out.
Seems like a super versatile scorer no? He's gotten some detractors saying he's only a post-scorer than can't create for himself... but that just isn't reflective in the numbers. And as Pennie states in the 2nd tweet, he got better vs tougher comp later in the season. I think Keegan's offensive skill-set is damn near perfect because you can fit him with any team archetype; if you need him to space he can, if you need him to go get buckets, he can. He'll find a way to be a valuable offensive player.
And agreed on the passing. It's Keegan's major wart on his game. But I've said I'm willing to give him and Davis a pass until we see what they look like with NBA teammates. Both guys carried bad teams to really respectable tourney placements and there just wasn't very much offensive talent to help them. If Keegan (or Davis) weren't putting the ball in the hoop, no one else was. Doesn't mean they're automatically going to be playmakers at the NBA level, but both guys are such smart high-IQ players; it's hard to believe they won't find a way to at least be passable passers at the NBA level. I'll bet on the work ethic/offensive skill that they figure it out.
BPA is always going to at minimum consider potential and where they are right now. Sometimes a guy is so head and shoulders above right now and the potential is close and sometimes they are close right now but the potential is sky high for one guy but the other is more likely to match their lesser higher potential. That's where it gets super tricky, especially when you are picking at the top of the draft.
If it's between Ivey and Murray (Sharpe and others, too I guess) and we go Ivey then I am going to assume that means Monte sees Ivey as a potential superstar because if you have these players rated a lot closer, I think you have to go with the plug and play guy. (or it means he thinks Murray is a turd, I guess) I think the biggest risk that both Ivey and Murray have is being asked to play an unnatural position. It's actually a reverse "fit" case, if you will.
If it's between Ivey and Murray (Sharpe and others, too I guess) and we go Ivey then I am going to assume that means Monte sees Ivey as a potential superstar because if you have these players rated a lot closer, I think you have to go with the plug and play guy. (or it means he thinks Murray is a turd, I guess) I think the biggest risk that both Ivey and Murray have is being asked to play an unnatural position. It's actually a reverse "fit" case, if you will.
Let's evaluate this after one year under a competent coaching staff. Fox was good/very promising under Joerger. And even under Walton he still showed up when his pride was on the line. He 100% has the tools just needs a reason to play to his ability every game. Coaching will help. Playing .500 or better ball will motivate him as well.
Yeah, pretty much. At Iowa a lot of his role defensively was actually in the backline as a help defender which is probably why his block numbers were so high. He did show some ability to switch, but in the NBA he and Domas hanging back at the rim is a recipe for being no better than they are now with a somewhat similar player to Murray in Lyles. I think the potential defensively with Ivey is much higher considering his athletic ability. You can get smarts, the feet are there or they aren't.
And it should be, this dude is clearly in that top 4 and was anywhere from 1-4 on mocks for a good part of the year. As soon as the Kings get a top 4 pick, "Oh, poor Kings, well, they better trade down or pass up the potential star talent." lol. Flat out, the Pistons and the Pacers are seething. They wanted in the top 4, don't give them what they want Monte. Monte holds all the cards right now and this card could very well change the direction of this franchise from a playoff contender to a contender down the line.
Totally agree and why I think for Ivey going to any of the Kings, Pistons, or Pacers would be great for him and the team taking him. Who do the Kings have at SG right now? They do have a few stretch 4's in Lyles, Barnes, and Metu. At SG TD but he's on his last year and everyone else is a combo G that leans towards PG.
My only issue with Ivey is the eye test says there are a ton of warts. The film looks great. He pops. But people thinking he’s going to be Morant from day one are going to be in a for shock. But if the Kings take him, fine. Commit to him. The first step? You gotta trade Fox. I think Mitchell n Ivey can coexist long term. I don’t think Fox and Ivey can coexist.
Yeah, and it's a good comp to fluff but bad for those thinking it. But him being able to develop into a bigger Morant is why you simply don't pass on this type of talent. And no, you don't have to trade Fox. Any coach with a brain can find a way to make it work considering Fox is a scoring PG and Ivey is a SG that already understands off ball movement and spacing. Fox and Haliburton didn't work for a variety of reasons mostly Luke Walton again taking the ball out of a more talented players hands and putting it elsewhere.
If Murray can consistently add those perimeter skills to his game, he’d be amazing. In the games I’ve watched, he didn’t look entirely comfortable taking defenders off the dribble. Ball handling was a bit shaky, but I didn’t see these as negatives against him at all. It just wasn’t part of his skill set which is fine for a PF. However, I may be underrating his untapped potential, because if he can do things like that consistently in the NBA, then that’s a star. But as I said, they weren’t a consistent part of his game. We’d be projecting his best outcome. If we drsft him, I’d for sure use film like that to convince myself of him.
With Johnny Davis, he’s a good passer and unselfish player. I have no questions about that part of his game. With Murray’s poor passing, I think it’s the mindset more than anything. You’ll have to get him out of the tunnel vision. It’s strange because he is such a high IQ player, but just not a very good passer.
With Johnny Davis, he’s a good passer and unselfish player. I have no questions about that part of his game. With Murray’s poor passing, I think it’s the mindset more than anything. You’ll have to get him out of the tunnel vision. It’s strange because he is such a high IQ player, but just not a very good passer.
Except neither of those guys are really SG's. They're combo G's that lean towards pick and roll PG's. Davion isn't a SG at his size. He can probably spot minutes there like any other combo but the length isn't there when you combine all 3. There is a reason for a good chunk of time after the trades the best net rating 5 man units were with Lamb until injuries completely leaned towards units without Fox/Sabonis at all anyway. Ivey and Fox would be insanely athletic and have good length. It's a major difference.
It absolutely shouldn't be, just comes down to how far of a gap there is if you view Ivey as the best player on the board vs. the first guy that fits better. Which could be Sharpe or Maturin or another player for all we know. All things being considered unless you are convinced that Ivey is a superstar I am a lot more comfortable with a player who is generically a forward or even a 2/3 swing rather than a combo guard.
He is a SG right now and I'm sure teams are well aware of it. He's 20 and isn't going to be a total negative since he has many positives in ways that the Kings don't have a ton of, mostly elite athletic ability. I've always been in the camp that no rookie is going to change this team from where they are to the place they want to be by next season which is apparently 4-6 games above .500. The number 4 pick if it's Ivey? Icing on the cake. The Kings are setting up a plan of after a few seasons being in the middle of that pack of contenders. If Ivey pans out and they use that max space wisely they have their shot at getting there.
Does he need to start? I think he would likely beat out the competition on the basis of talent alone but Vivek has set a very reasonable goal here. 4-6 games above .500 is doable without this pick. Or it should be. If the pick pans out then you have either a TERRIFIC rebuild piece should you need to blow it up and/or your own developing stud while you compete. It's Warriors to a T actually. I do think they should have traded those picks but they have Kuminga waiting on the backburner to step in when he's ready. Wiseman as well possibly.
I’m a big believer in wiring. Hali would pass the ball even though he wants to and knows he has to shoot it. Fox just isn’t wired to play with another guard, who needs the ball in his hands to be at his best. Same sh*t with Ivey. How many highlights do you see him curling and shooting off of a pass? How many highlights do you see him cutting and dunking. All of the film are of the look at his ceiling variety where he’s popping off the dribble. Kings draft him, it would be suicide to expect him to play as a low usage Klay type.
I've been extremely optimistic about our future but 4-6 games over .500 just because of Sabonis, a healthy DDV and Brown coming in? (if we draft Ivey how does that complicate DDV, who we have to re-sign for that matter?)
don't forget if we draft Ivey we still need to find a full time piece between Barnes and Sabonis.
don't forget if we draft Ivey we still need to find a full time piece between Barnes and Sabonis.
Well, I've been open about this, they need to let Donte go IMO if he's wanting MLE money or anything close. The Kings have max cap potential next summer without having to renounce Barnes and signing Donte to a deal like that is going to be a JT/K9/Holmes situation all over again if he's not enough on the talent side at SG. Those aren't the types of players you overpay while not winning while figuring you can flip them later on. Learn your lesson Kings. It literally cost you Jayson Tatum last time pretty much. I think the Kings have to prioritize having as close to a full max salary slot as possible. They need that leverage on the FA market.
I look at it this way. Next summer I think odds are the guy they go after is Grant. They could try Beal, but the odds of him landing here aren't great. Grant to me would be the target. So, sign Donte/draft Murray? Or Have Ivey/Barnes/Grant/plus other goodies with the remaining space since Grant ain't getting full max from anyone.
I look at it this way. Next summer I think odds are the guy they go after is Grant. They could try Beal, but the odds of him landing here aren't great. Grant to me would be the target. So, sign Donte/draft Murray? Or Have Ivey/Barnes/Grant/plus other goodies with the remaining space since Grant ain't getting full max from anyone.
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