Kings first round of coaching candidate interviews comes out

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Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#181
#181
Proven coaches like Snyder don't become available so easily, unless they have serious baggage. I haven't seen other issues with him on/off the court. He is still relatively young, has a wealth of experience, and has shown the ability to turn that Utah team into a contender. I have no concerns that he would be able to work someone with blazing speed and an amazing post presence into something successful. He would be my first choice, and players would not be able to bristle at his recent success.

Next I would go with someone like Hardy/Ham. They feels like someone who could be an up-and-coming Malone. There would be bumps along the way, because of their youth, but offer long-term possibilities.

Retreads who have let the game pass them by would disappoint for sure, regardless of name recognition. That got us Karl.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#185
#185
SLAB said:
I still say Snyder ignores us and waits for a situation he’d actually want.
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I think he takes a one year vacation as well.

Domas is the only sure thing.
Fox hasn't proven that he can win nor play with anyone.
Mitchell is a two way with upside.
Vivek will Vivek.
McNair is on the hot seat.

Does that move the needle for a high end coach, who has won in the league? I doubt it.
 
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ESP47

All-Star
#186
#186
kb02 said:
I think he takes a one year vacation as well.

Domas is the only sure thing.
Fox hasn't proven that he can win nor play with anyone.
Mitchell is a two way with upside.
Vivek will Vivek.
McNair is on the hot seat.

Does that move the needle for a high end coach, who has won in the league? I doubt it.
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Hopefully McNair is not on the hot seat. He hasn't done anything to warrant that yet.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#189
#189
ESP47 said:
Hopefully McNair is not on the hot seat. He hasn't done anything to warrant that yet.
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I think he is. He's been tracking on a C average. While that's better than Vlade or Pete, don't think he'll make it pass the trade deadline, if the Kings aren't comfortably in the playoff picture by then. Because of that, I expect a lot of short term moves from him. From the draft to who he picks as the coach. Kings will be absolutely dead last in season ticket commitments entering the season.
 
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ESP47

All-Star
#190
#190
kb02 said:
I think he is. He's been tracking on a C average. While that's better than Vlade or Pete, don't think he'll make it pass the trade deadline, if the Kings aren't comfortably in the playoff picture by then. Because of that, I expect a lot of short term moves from him. From the draft to who he picks as the coach. Kings will be absolutely dead last in season ticket commitments entering the season.
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I'd give him a B+ at this point.

Took an asset that the Kings normally whiff with in the 12th pick in the draft and got us Haliburton with that and then turned him into Sabonis. Instead of Jimmer or Stauskas, we now have Sabonis. That right there elevates you well above a C grade.

Traded a net negative in Bagley for a good role player in DDV.

Too early to assess Mitchell but the players picked after him did not set the league on fire so there is currently no reason to question that pick yet.

He's obviously shopped Fox around and did not like what was coming back in return and decided to keep him. I really don't know what else could be asked of him at this point. It's not like an A level GM would net us a Durant or anything. I guess my only real gripe, and I'm not even sure if he has any power when it comes to this, would be not dedicating to the tank at the end of the seasons. Stupid to just give away draft slots to other teams but I have no idea if he even has a hand in that or not
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#193
#193
ESP47 said:
I'd give him a B+ at this point.

Took an asset that the Kings normally whiff with in the 12th pick in the draft and got us Haliburton with that and then turned him into Sabonis. Instead of Jimmer or Stauskas, we now have Sabonis. That right there elevates you well above a C grade.

Traded a net negative in Bagley for a good role player in DDV.

Too early to assess Mitchell but the players picked after him did not set the league on fire so there is currently no reason to question that pick yet.

He's obviously shopped Fox around and did not like what was coming back in return and decided to keep him. I really don't know what else could be asked of him at this point. It's not like an A level GM would net us a Durant or anything. I guess my only real gripe, and I'm not even sure if he has any power when it comes to this, would be not dedicating to the tank at the end of the seasons. Stupid to just give away draft slots to other teams but I have no idea if he even has a hand in that or not
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Fair assessment. I think some real decent minor moves too like finding Metu, Jones and even Lyles for nothing.

Really the only mind-blowingly bad move he has made was the Delon Wright for TT trade. Just weird nonsense all-around, especially when we went and signed Len to a contract too.
 
kb02

kb02

All-Star
#194
#194
ESP47 said:
I'd give him a B+ at this point.

Took an asset that the Kings normally whiff with in the 12th pick in the draft and got us Haliburton with that and then turned him into Sabonis. Instead of Jimmer or Stauskas, we now have Sabonis. That right there elevates you well above a C grade.

Traded a net negative in Bagley for a good role player in DDV.

Too early to assess Mitchell but the players picked after him did not set the league on fire so there is currently no reason to question that pick yet.

He's obviously shopped Fox around and did not like what was coming back in return and decided to keep him. I really don't know what else could be asked of him at this point. It's not like an A level GM would net us a Durant or anything. I guess my only real gripe, and I'm not even sure if he has any power when it comes to this, would be not dedicating to the tank at the end of the seasons. Stupid to just give away draft slots to other teams but I have no idea if he even has a hand in that or not
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C. He hasnt done anything that any average GM wouldn’t have done. The Hali pick was a no brainer, DDV is solid, but becomes negative if he bails, missed on three seconds, took too long to move on Fox…

The only move that i think he went outside of the box on and hit at a higher rate than an average GM was Mitchell. Took his bpa though his two best assets played the same position. Beyond that, middle manager quality.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#196
#196
ESP47 said:
I guess my only real gripe, and I'm not even sure if he has any power when it comes to this, would be not dedicating to the tank at the end of the seasons. Stupid to just give away draft slots to other teams but I have no idea if he even has a hand in that or not
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And yet we sat our two best players and kept winning largely on the back of our rook. It's doubtful we'd have made the play in but if we had pushed Fox and Sabonis we could be all the way down at 10.

The only team we lost ground to was the Blazers, although technically Indy leapfrogged us for a day or two before falling back. And it seems like even if the Blazers somehow sneak into the top 4 they have gotten a karmic whipping from the basketball gods the way the NOP pick worked out.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#197
#197
The_Jamal said:
Yeah I do. I think he's one of the few actual difference makers in terms of W/L as a coach. Has a brilliant understanding of modern offensive spacing (Jazz 1st and 3rd in Offensive Rtg the last few years as well as leading the league in 3PA) and how to make complimentary offensive lineups. Puts guys in clearly defined offensive roles; (Mitchell, Clarkson are the lead dogs, Conley the secondary creator, Bojan the secondary scorer) that guys don't deviate from. Has obviously benefited with a generationally good rim protector in Rudy Gobert, but has lead excellent defensive teams without all that much defensive talent.

It's not surprising Utah collapsed. Pretty clear they were getting near the end of this build cycle and a few key things started to happen: Mike Conley got old, Donovan Mitchell is a B-tier playoff #1, and Rudy Gobert's lack of offensive creation and ability to be attacked in space became more of a glaring issue year after year.

Even as a near perfectly constructed team around their stars, it's hard to overcome all these problems. Especially now, I think the 2 most important traits from a big are defending in space and being an offensive threat in some capacity (preferably a spacer). The Gobert, Capela, old DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler archetype is just too easily exploitable now.
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I saw regression by Donovan Mitchell this year, especially in this playoff series. The lack of offensive improvement over several years from Gobert also gives me cause for concern. Is that on the coach? Is it just on the players? Is it a mixed bag? I dunno. I noticed that Barkley, Shaq and Kenny weren't exactly raving about Snyder's coaching in this series. They may not be the be-all-end-all for analyzing coaching, but there is well over 30 years of NBA experience between them so I don't dismiss what they have to say, especially when they rarely agree on much.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#198
#198
kb02 said:
C. He hasnt done anything that any average GM wouldn’t have done. The Hali pick was a no brainer, DDV is solid, but becomes negative if he bails, missed on three seconds, took too long to move on Fox…

The only move that i think he went outside of the box on and hit at a higher rate than an average GM was Mitchell. Took his bpa though his two best assets played the same position. Beyond that, middle manager quality.
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Which I guess means there are a lot of GMs with no brains.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#199
#199
Kingster said:
I saw regression by Donovan Mitchell this year, especially in this playoff series. The lack of offensive improvement over several years from Gobert also gives me cause for concern. Is that on the coach? Is it just on the players? Is it a mixed bag? I dunno. I noticed that Barkley, Shaq and Kenny weren't exactly raving about Snyder's coaching in this series. They may not be the be-all-end-all for analyzing coaching, but there is well over 30 years of NBA experience between them so I don't dismiss what they have to say, especially when they rarely agree on much.
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I love the TNT guys, they're super entertaining, but they're all bad NBA analysts. They don't know a good chunk of the league, they watch like 3 teams, etc. Hell, they have a joke segment of "who does this guy play for?" and actively admit they don't watch or know about a lot of players.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#201
#201
Kingster said:
Which I guess means there are a lot of GMs with no brains.
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Yeah, you still get credit for making the obvious pick. And if we look at that draft, I think the Warriors, Bulls, Cavs, Hawks, Pistons, Knicks, Wizards, Suns and Spurs would all gladly trade their draft choice for Hali. We we know that 2 years later... It's fair to say basically all the lotto GM's screwed up.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#202
#202
Considering the last few GMs weren't very good at making "obvious picks" maybe we should stick with the guy who appears to be 2/2 and hasn't dramatically set the franchise back a decade yet?

Not every at bat is the right time to swing for the fences. The Sabonis move was definitely one such move and we'll see how it pays off. But the coach and this draft pick are equally important, as is any move around Holmes (or Barnes) this offseason and if he actually uses the full MLE for a change. Still I would say at minimum he has to be given into the 2023-2024 season unless he is the sole reason Luke was here to start last season.

I'm not too worried about second rounders because we had so many of them they were never going to get a fair shake. watch what happens with OKC if they aren't able to move some of their #1s that aren't great picks. Those guys are going to be on guaranteed deals eating up roster spaces and either cut after 2 years or moved unless they plan to keep tanking another 3 years.
 
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ESP47

All-Star
#203
#203
Kingster said:
Which I guess means there are a lot of GMs with no brains.
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Honestly, there were about 7 GMs that really did lose their damn minds during that draft. When Hali was dropping, it made me wonder if there was some sort of medical or mental concern with him that wasn't made public. His fall made absolutely zero sense. I could maybe see dropping to 7th tops due to fit, but all the way to 12th? There were a lot of really dumb decisions made that day and luckily our GM did not make one of them.

Do I give him full credit for the pick? I can't because if you would have polled Kings fans when the Kings were on the clock, I'd guess that 90%+ would have picked Hali? I give credit to Monte for not being stupid like the other GMs but he doesn't get any extra credit for making the obvious pick.

In recent memory, I'd say Fox and Hali are tied as the most obvious picks with the Doncic/Bagley pick trailing those two because at least there was some discussion about other candidates that year.
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#204
#204
The_Jamal said:
I love the TNT guys, they're super entertaining, but they're all bad NBA analysts. They don't know a good chunk of the league, they watch like 3 teams, etc. Hell, they have a joke segment of "who does this guy play for?" and actively admit they don't watch or know about a lot of players.
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It's far worse among "the gang" during March Madness when Charles Barkley freely admits knows almost nothing about today's or any day's men's college basketball. Kenny Smith similar, only knowing ACC and his former UNC team. Clark Kellogg the exception, following closely college basketball and clearly an expert.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#206
#206
ESP47 said:
In recent memory, I'd say Fox and Hali are tied as the most obvious picks with the Doncic/Bagley pick trailing those two because at least there was some discussion about other candidates that year.
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If we're talking about at-the-time consensus with the players available at the pick, I'd say you're right on all three counts. The only other times that come to mind (back to the mid-90s) where there seemed to be a massive fan consensus for one player were:
Cousins (but definitely there was at least noise about Greg Monroe)
Rubio (obviously we didn't take him)
Hawes? (with the players left at #10, it seemed most people were on Hawes at that point - most really wanted Noah who went at #9)
John Wallace (thankfully we took Peja)
 
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ESP47

All-Star
#208
#208
Capt. Factorial said:
If we're talking about at-the-time consensus with the players available at the pick, I'd say you're right on all three counts. The only other times that come to mind (back to the mid-90s) where there seemed to be a massive fan consensus for one player were:
Cousins (but definitely there was at least noise about Greg Monroe)
Rubio (obviously we didn't take him)
Hawes? (with the players left at #10, it seemed most people were on Hawes at that point - most really wanted Noah who went at #9)
John Wallace (thankfully we took Peja)
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You've got a better memory than me there. My interest may have been in and out during some of those years as well.

Hawes and Noah is a good one. I do remember the wind being sucked out of the room when Noah was picked one spot ahead of us.

Rubio is fuzzy for me. I thought most of the talk was between he and Evans or was Rubio simply the clear favorite? I feel like people were really worried about his defense and that turned out to be about the last thing you needed to worry about with him.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#209
#209
iowamcnabb said:
if he wants to see how the off-season unfolds before committing that takes us out of the running. He probably leaves Utah only for a better situation and we are probably not that yet. Charlotte could be intriguing if they can get one more piece. I’ve heard a lot of good things about quality of life in Charlotte too.
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The only thing about Charlotte is that's going to be another pressure cooker. They are one foot in, and one foot out of that middle of the pack run. Can they get there? They are basically stuck roster wise. The Kings have all the tools at their disposal to be able to create a team around Fox and Domas next summer. That means Snyder gets to go shopping a year after getting his feet wet. Yeah, if he waits then it's a no go. The Kings will have to move on. This is probably where you'd like to see the Kings request permission to talk to him.
 
G

Gguod

Bench
#210
#210
pdxKingsFan said:
And yet we sat our two best players and kept winning largely on the back of our rook. It's doubtful we'd have made the play in but if we had pushed Fox and Sabonis we could be all the way down at 10.

The only team we lost ground to was the Blazers, although technically Indy leapfrogged us for a day or two before falling back. And it seems like even if the Blazers somehow sneak into the top 4 they have gotten a karmic whipping from the basketball gods the way the NOP pick worked out.
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We also played Barnes 38 mins per game and other vets a lot too. We werent fully tanking and that was a clear choice this franchise made. We lost (valuable) pre lottery draft position because of that choice and we have to live with the consequences of that choice. By playing Barnes and a lot of vets bunch of minutes we lost draft position and it decreased the odds of drafting a real difference maker. Thats just a fact. We could've done what some other teams did and played a bunch of gleaguers but we made a choice that we didnt do that. This is the consequence of that choice. Hopefully it doesnt cost us much.
 
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