Kings trade Tyrese and Buddy for Sabonis and Holiday and Lamb

captain bill

captain bill

Starter
#841
#841
gunks said:
Hali has some pretty great shooting numbers, BBIQ, and super elite passing... Plus wants to be here, plus is on a rookie deal, plus can play with just about anyone...

Sabonis is a big talent, but he and Fox might not even be a great fit, and I think chances are pretty good he bolts after 2 years.

It's exactly the kind of short sighted, high risk/low reward move that wont do anything this year but **** up our lotto chances. A Fox/Sabonis core seems like it'll just be busted defensively and top out as first round fodder.

I'll happily eat crow if it works out btw, and now that I'm past the "shocked" phase, I'm in the "morbidly curious" phase... but there's a reason people here are upset and there's a reason everybody is saying Indy won the trade.
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I wouldn't be surprised if some combo of Fox, Holmes, and future picks get moved as well. Preferably heavily protected. Any picks starting in 2025 and after Sabonis's contract expires are gonna have a ton of value. Of course you need a stable organization that's willing to trade for a pick that far out. My suspicion is that Monte + Co got an "in or out" ultimatum and getting an extension is based solely on whether we make the playoffs before the current contracts expires (which I think go thru 2024 same as Sabonis?). Which creates a huge moral hazard situation where Monte trades high value long-term assets for anything that can help us get to the playoffs in the next two years. And playoffs in the next two years is pretty much the only scenario where the Haliburton deal makes any sense.

And Fox Holmes + an unprotected (or top 3-5 protected) post-2025 Kings lotto pick or two would have a massive amount of value.
 
T

Turgenev

Starter
#842
#842
I would've preferred to keep Tyrese and move Fox for Sabonis but seems that wasn't possible. And in fairness to Monte, he got Sabonis and some change for a better price (Hali, Buddy, TT) than Chicago got Vucevic (Carter Jnr, Porter, and two firsts - including one that became Franz Wagner(?!)). I'm looking forward to watching Sabonis in a Kings jersey.
 
steelevt

steelevt

All-Star
#843
#843
gunks said:
Hali has some pretty great shooting numbers, BBIQ, and super elite passing... Plus wants to be here, plus is on a rookie deal, plus can play with just about anyone...

Sabonis is a big talent, but he and Fox might not even be a great fit, and I think chances are pretty good he bolts after 2 years.

It's exactly the kind of short sighted, high risk/low reward move that wont do anything this year but **** up our lotto chances. A Fox/Sabonis core seems like it'll just be busted defensively and top out as first round fodder.

I'll happily eat crow if it works out btw, and now that I'm past the "shocked" phase, I'm in the "morbidly curious" phase... but there's a reason people here are upset and there's a reason everybody is saying Indy won the trade.
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I really hate losing ty and convinced myself that as long as domas plays at an allstar level, we won the trade or at least it’s a fair trade if ty also becomes an allstar. But if we lose sabonis in 2 years and ty is extended cuz the pacers have control of the contract, that is my biggest fear and would consider this a really bad trade. Especially if playoffs were achieved in the 2 years.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#844
#844
steelevt said:
I really hate losing ty and convinced myself that as long as domas plays at an allstar level, we won the trade or at least it’s a fair trade if ty also becomes an allstar. But if we lose sabonis in 2 years and ty is extended cuz the pacers have control of the contract, that is my biggest fear and would consider this a really bad trade. Especially if playoffs were achieved in the 2 years.
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If this is unworkable with Fox/Sabonis it will be pretty clear before the end of the year. Then what they do this summer along with the start of next year will be the no doubt blow it up point. I doubt Fox and Sabonis suck so bad individually, assuming injuries don't factor in, that they lose all value even if the wins don't commence.
 
captain bill

captain bill

Starter
#845
#845
SacTownKid said:
I would hope this franchise isn't that arbitrary. If the Kings viewed Haliburton as anything close to a franchise building block they wouldn't have traded him. Fox sitting out, even though I'm sure his ankle was hurt, and then coming back litertally the day a deal was made makes me think that indeed, Fox being out was about lifting the value of the pieces around him.
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The front office could very well have seen Haliburton as a franchise centerpiece and keeping him as the best outcome for the next 10 years for Sacramento. And they also could have received direction from management that playoffs in the short term are critical to keeping their jobs. It's already been publicly acknowledged that Gentry's contract has benchmarks tied to playoffs - and his job next year depends on it - so it's logical to assume the same hold trues for the GM's office.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#847
#847
captain bill said:
The front office could very well have seen Haliburton as a franchise centerpiece and keeping him as the best outcome for the next 10 years for Sacramento. And they also could have received direction from management that playoffs in the short term are critical to keeping their jobs. It's already been publicly acknowledged that Gentry's contract has benchmarks tied to playoffs - and his job next year depends on it - so it's logical to assume the same hold trues for the GM's office.
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Again, that would be arbitrary thinking. Very short term as well. I'm sure there are short term goals and on the surface, those goals mean Fox > Haliburton. Remember, Fox was extended under Montes watch IIRC. That might mean something.
 
captain bill

captain bill

Starter
#848
#848
SacTownKid said:
Again, that would be arbitrary thinking. Very short term as well. I'm sure there are short term goals and on the surface, those goals mean Fox > Haliburton. Remember, Fox was extended under Montes watch IIRC. That might mean something.
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Agree it's a bad way of thinking about things but it's the most consistent with Vivek's known thinking and the best explanation for why this move got made. And even if the FO had no intent of building around Fox long term you still sign him to the extension he's worth then look to move him later.
 
krylia sovetov

krylia sovetov

Bench
#849
#849
SacTownKid said:
I would hope this franchise isn't that arbitrary. If the Kings viewed Haliburton as anything close to a franchise building block they wouldn't have traded him. Fox sitting out, even though I'm sure his ankle was hurt, and then coming back litertally the day a deal was made makes me think that indeed, Fox being out was about lifting the value of the pieces around him.
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if they didn't viewed hali as anything close to a.... c'mon man, whole basketball world is stunned!
this is so shortsighted it literally hurts.
i thought fox has rested cause he's supposed to get shipped... but, nobody wants him. just like nobody wanted buddy.
so, let's give our most promising player, ship hield and aquire sabonis JR... it's some kind of win, isn't it?


but my mind is now on vivek and his expiration date, not in our franchise, but in basketball world. what is your take on that subject?
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#850
#850
krylia sovetov said:
if they didn't viewed hali as anything close to a.... c'mon man, whole basketball world is stunned!
this is so shortsighted it literally hurts.
i thought fox has rested cause he's supposed to get shipped... but, nobody wants him. just like nobody wanted buddy.
so, let's give our most promising player, ship hield and aquire sabonis JR... it's some kind of win, isn't it?


but my mind is now on vivek and his expiration date, not in our franchise, but in basketball world. what is your take on that subject?
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The whole basketball world is always stunned when it comes to the bright shiny new things and losing teams going for it now. This is where Monte proves his worth. Come back with Grant or something of that level and this all starts to make COMPLETE sense. Monte, you're on the clock and just about half way there.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#852
#852
funkykingston said:
I don't think the majority of us think competing for the play-in game is worth doing at all, let alone jeopardizing draft position for.

The national media can (and probably should) hammer this franchise more for taking Bagley over Doncic. My only point is that they seem to think trading Haliburton for Sabonis was an awful, inexplicable move. I love Hali as much as anyone on this board, but right now Sabonis is a better player and the Kings had no other trade chips that would net an impact player. I don't have to like the trade to see that it was relatively fair. But the narrative seems to be that the Kings got fleeced somehow. And that's within the context of whatever the hell Portland is doing.
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the pundits keep saying the same thing about the deal, “bad trade by the Kings! They traded for the better player now and the next 2 years or more but what about in 2 and a half years when he is a free agent?!” I do agree it’s risky to trade an ascending young player with team control for a “win now” player but that criticism would be more valid if that player was a CJ McCollum type not a 25 year old all star.
 
E

ESP47

All-Star
#853
#853
Warhawk said:
How do you get that? Right now we have a 37.2% chance at a top 4 pick. Or are you saying if we lose more games and move past OKC (to 48.1%)? Even being one of the worst 3 teams is only 52.1% chance at a top 4 pick.
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I thought we were still 5th worst. Looks like they moved into 6th now. I guess I was a little off. Looks like if they finish 5th worse they'll have about a 45% chance.

 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#854
#854
krylia sovetov said:
if they didn't viewed hali as anything close to a.... c'mon man, whole basketball world is stunned!
this is so shortsighted it literally hurts.
i thought fox has rested cause he's supposed to get shipped... but, nobody wants him. just like nobody wanted buddy.
so, let's give our most promising player, ship hield and aquire sabonis JR... it's some kind of win, isn't it?


but my mind is now on vivek and his expiration date, not in our franchise, but in basketball world. what is your take on that subject?
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Hmmmm.... nobody wants to trade for Fox? Better build around him then!


Man, this is just one big cluster-Vivek isn't it?
 
K

kingsfan101

Starter
#870
#870
funkykingston said:
Not to be facetious, but if we kept Haliburton we'd have similar concerns about whether he would ask for a max deal, if he's worth that max deal etc.

This a major issue for bad teams. They lack talent so a guy who would be a good player on a contending team is forced to be their best player and gets paid like a franchise guy when he isn't. On the other hand, on a good team that same guy is a 2nd or 3rd (or even 4th) option and gets a contract more in line with his actual value. It can go too far the other way, where a team is so good that rivals poach their 4th best player thinking he can be a star if given more opportunity. We saw this with Harrison Barnes being signed away from the Warriors by the Mavs.

But in general the reality is that if McNair could actually build a winning team in Sacramento and add at least one more impact player, not only would Sabonis be more likely to stay, he'd probably not be getting a max deal to do so.
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True. However, I think one difference is that he would have been an RFA, which would have given us more leverage. Not that you want to get there with such a major piece, but the option to negotiate is there.

Unless I am wrong about this, I don't think we have that option with Sabonis.
 
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