Trade Deadline Thread
- Thread starter macadocious
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Even if they're not "franchise altering", what I've long held is that you don't put the cart before the horse. Honestly, it's not paying Fox the max that I'm mad about, because arguably the franchise had little choice in that. It's paying him the max, then (franchise and fans) treating him as untouchable and basically like the top 10-15 players you speak of, all while he hadn't led the team anywhere or accomplished any real individual accolades, which while is subject to media popularity, does provide some sense of how a player is perceived around the league. I mean, I really think it's a huge insult every time someone here says that you could just switch Fox and player X and the teams' records would be the same. That takes all the credit away from player X, while taking away all the blame from Fox.
But anyway, I'm not here to get into that. Your original point was "It’s interesting how Fox is holding us back (even when he isn’t playing) and Dejounte is leading the Spurs … to the same number of wins as the Kings", and my rebuttal is that (1) expectations differ based on how much a guy is paid, and (2) were the situation reversed, fans here would be saying it's not Fox's fault his teammates are a bunch of GLeaguers, and if you'd put him with a roster of Barnes Holmes Hali Hield and we'd be a #5 seed.
But anyway, I'm not here to get into that. Your original point was "It’s interesting how Fox is holding us back (even when he isn’t playing) and Dejounte is leading the Spurs … to the same number of wins as the Kings", and my rebuttal is that (1) expectations differ based on how much a guy is paid, and (2) were the situation reversed, fans here would be saying it's not Fox's fault his teammates are a bunch of GLeaguers, and if you'd put him with a roster of Barnes Holmes Hali Hield and we'd be a #5 seed.
In all fairness I have some of the real "trolls" on ignore, so perhaps that is where you get the impression that I don't. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Fox, but I would add that:
- He was expected to be a franchise player and has frankly not lived up to that THUS FAR
- He was also viewed as a potential top two-way (as in D and O) player in the league; he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end for someone with such expectations and personal aspirations
- Individual performance aside, part of being a max guy entails leadership and setting the tone/culture for the team, which he has failed to do
I dare say that with regards to the latter two points, at least 50-60% of the blame should be on Fox as an individual, regardless of poor coaching and organisational Kangziness.
He is still a very good scorer, great at getting to the rim and the FT line. He is not a scrub by any means. But a take like this would be deemed by some to be "anti-Fox"
- He was expected to be a franchise player and has frankly not lived up to that THUS FAR
- He was also viewed as a potential top two-way (as in D and O) player in the league; he has been a huge disappointment on the defensive end for someone with such expectations and personal aspirations
- Individual performance aside, part of being a max guy entails leadership and setting the tone/culture for the team, which he has failed to do
I dare say that with regards to the latter two points, at least 50-60% of the blame should be on Fox as an individual, regardless of poor coaching and organisational Kangziness.
He is still a very good scorer, great at getting to the rim and the FT line. He is not a scrub by any means. But a take like this would be deemed by some to be "anti-Fox"
So you don’t like most of the team and don’t mind the other 3. You don’t like ex kings like cousins or tyreke or ex coaches like Malone. So why exactly are you here except to crap on the team? Did autocorrect take you here instead of kingshaters.com? We have fans of other teams like the jazz, suns and even lakers that frequently visit the site that act better than this.
Folks, let's all take a step back here. The thread is getting a bit factious and it seems to me that the grievances being built up between groups are being made into something that is a) a bigger deal than it really is and b) more important than the actual issue at hand in the thread.
We're a couple of days away from the trade deadline, looking ourselves squarely in the face of a team that's not meshing and we're all trying to figure out how best to fix it and we're all curious what's actually going to happen. Let's talk about that, and I'm going to get more aggressive going forward about getting rid of the personal sniping (or, equally, complaints about potential personal sniping that hasn't even happened...)
We're a couple of days away from the trade deadline, looking ourselves squarely in the face of a team that's not meshing and we're all trying to figure out how best to fix it and we're all curious what's actually going to happen. Let's talk about that, and I'm going to get more aggressive going forward about getting rid of the personal sniping (or, equally, complaints about potential personal sniping that hasn't even happened...)
At what point will pro-Fox fans realize that teams already are assigning a 20-5-5 line to Fox? That's his baseline, but it's based on volume. It may look good for your fantasy sports team, but when that line leads to more losses than wins, is accompanied by non-existent defense, needs a team to built around him due to a lack of shooting and a lack of off-the-ball efficiency, and has a net neutral to net negative impact on the rest of the team, he's simply not going to be valued like how you think he should be valued.
If Vivek is smart, he'd realize that the path to winning ball is Hali and Mitchell. You got two guards, who can stretch the floor, are not ball stoppers, a connector on offense, and a connector on defense. That's your foundation, Vivek. Don't mess it up.
If Vivek is smart, he'd realize that the path to winning ball is Hali and Mitchell. You got two guards, who can stretch the floor, are not ball stoppers, a connector on offense, and a connector on defense. That's your foundation, Vivek. Don't mess it up.
"Sacramento has engaged Indiana on both Turner and Domantas Sabonis, sources said. While it's unclear how much progress the Kings and Pacers made in those conversations, De'Aaron Fox has at least been mentioned in some capacity. New York and New Orleans held exploratory conversations for Fox as well."
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...s-become-best-player-likely-dealt-at-deadline
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...s-become-best-player-likely-dealt-at-deadline
Put a better team around Fox and they win. Ja has a better team around him and they win. One guy can not make that kind of difference unless they are Lebron, KD, etc. Hali is proving it as well right? If he’s so much better, then where are the wins. It should be that easy according to you. These are good players who need to be surrounded by a quality team AND a quality coach/system.
The universe of players that can fit next to Hali is 3x the universe of players that can fit next to Fox. At the end of the day, that's why Hali will always have more value than Fox.
If Fox is the centerpiece, the model is the AI lead 76ers. But you need him to be at AI's level. He's not there and I don't think he'll ever get there.
If Fox is the centerpiece, the model is the AI lead 76ers. But you need him to be at AI's level. He's not there and I don't think he'll ever get there.
Sure, I think it's only natural that with a bigger contract come bigger expectations. That said, I don't believe any of us thought Fox was going to turn things around by himself. The hope was that he'd build on last season and continue to improve his game/numbers and that hopefully others would also step up and the team might squeak into the playoffs.
Even if the team were still losing but De'Aaron took another step forward with his game I don't think he'd be getting anywhere near the same level of criticism. I know I wouldn't blame him. He's the best player on a bad, small market team and those guys tend to get overpaid relative to their actual production/impact. That's just the unfortunate reality. But having Fox regress this year has just made everything much worse.
Even if the team were still losing but De'Aaron took another step forward with his game I don't think he'd be getting anywhere near the same level of criticism. I know I wouldn't blame him. He's the best player on a bad, small market team and those guys tend to get overpaid relative to their actual production/impact. That's just the unfortunate reality. But having Fox regress this year has just made everything much worse.