Blow It Up

[Gguod]

At this point it should be clear to majority of people what the most important things are for the rest of the season.

1)Get as good draft position as possible. Thats clearly and without a doubt the most important thing we can do anymore. Its hard to even try to figure why this wouldnt be a fact given our current situation, talent level and the known statistics on draft.

We have tried to win at all cost and chase the 8th seed/the play in. We signed vets and mentors and used a ridiculous amount of money to players like Zbo, KK, VC, Rondo, Bellinelli, GHill, Ariza ect. Fox didnt fix his bad habits and didnt become a winner. Same situation with Bagley, WCS, Giles, Malachi, Frank Mason, JJ, Papa G ect.

Please spare me with the winning culture bullcrap. Winning 34 games isnt winning culture. Getting enough talent to consistently win 44+ games is winning culture. All of this means that getting as good draft position as possible is the most important thing we can do. The only way we'll add an all star level to this squad is via draft. Act accordingly and dont be blind to the facts.

2) Getting future assets for players that might not be a part of our core when we are ready to compete (or players that prevent us playing the young guys and getting a good draft position). Guys like Holmes, Hield and Barnes are the type of guys you should look to move if you get offers that will benefit you in the future.

This season is lost, the focus should be on the future. Swapping Fox to Simmons/Sabonis wont change things much. Doing lateral moves with Barnes, Hield and Holmes wont move the needle. Adding an all star to this core is the only thing that actually elevates us from bad to good. Then you can start to figure out the fit and wether Fox or Simmons or Sabonis fits the core the best.

At last this should be the point where majority of people recognize that every loss from now on benfits us. Every minute to Queta, Woodard, Ramsey, King ect benefits us. Every additional future asset benefits us, not playing our core too much and risking injuries benefits us.

Lets lock up a great draft position, see where we land and then worry about the fit and wether we can turn Fox into a better fitting piece

 

[Groovygreg]

At this point it should be clear to majority of people what the most important things are for the rest of the season.

1)Get as good draft position as possible. Thats clearly and without a doubt the most important thing we can do anymore. Its hard to even try to figure why this wouldnt be a fact given our current situation, talent level and the known statistics on draft.

We have tried to win at all cost and chase the 8th seed/the play in. We signed vets and mentors and used a ridiculous amount of money to players like Zbo, KK, VC, Rondo, Bellinelli, GHill, Ariza ect. Fox didnt fix his bad habits and didnt become a winner. Same situation with Bagley, WCS, Giles, Malachi, Frank Mason, JJ, Papa G ect.

Please spare me with the winning culture bullcrap. Winning 34 games isnt winning culture. Getting enough talent to consistently win 44+ games is winning culture. All of this means that getting as good draft position as possible is the most important thing we can do. The only way we'll add an all star level to this squad is via draft. Act accordingly and dont be blind to the facts.

2) Getting future assets for players that might not be a part of our core when we are ready to compete (or players that prevent us playing the young guys and getting a good draft position). Guys like Holmes, Hield and Barnes are the type of guys you should look to move if you get offers that will benefit you in the future.

This season is lost, the focus should be on the future. Swapping Fox to Simmons/Sabonis wont change things much. Doing lateral moves with Barnes, Hield and Holmes wont move the needle. Adding an all star to this core is the only thing that actually elevates us from bad to good. Then you can start to figure out the fit and wether Fox or Simmons or Sabonis fits the core the best.

At last this should be the point where majority of people recognize that every loss from now on benfits us. Every minute to Queta, Woodard, Ramsey, King ect benefits us. Every additional future asset benefits us, not playing our core too much and risking injuries benefits us.

Lets lock up a great draft position, see where we land and then worry about the fit and wether we can turn Fox into a better fitting piece

<Mic drop>

 

[sactowndog]

At this point it should be clear to majority of people what the most important things are for the rest of the season.

1)Get as good draft position as possible. Thats clearly and without a doubt the most important thing we can do anymore. Its hard to even try to figure why this wouldnt be a fact given our current situation, talent level and the known statistics on draft.

We have tried to win at all cost and chase the 8th seed/the play in. We signed vets and mentors and used a ridiculous amount of money to players like Zbo, KK, VC, Rondo, Bellinelli, GHill, Ariza ect. Fox didnt fix his bad habits and didnt become a winner. Same situation with Bagley, WCS, Giles, Malachi, Frank Mason, JJ, Papa G ect.

Please spare me with the winning culture bullcrap. Winning 34 games isnt winning culture. Getting enough talent to consistently win 44+ games is winning culture. All of this means that getting as good draft position as possible is the most important thing we can do. The only way we'll add an all star level to this squad is via draft. Act accordingly and dont be blind to the facts.

2) Getting future assets for players that might not be a part of our core when we are ready to compete (or players that prevent us playing the young guys and getting a good draft position). Guys like Holmes, Hield and Barnes are the type of guys you should look to move if you get offers that will benefit you in the future.

This season is lost, the focus should be on the future. Swapping Fox to Simmons/Sabonis wont change things much. Doing lateral moves with Barnes, Hield and Holmes wont move the needle. Adding an all star to this core is the only thing that actually elevates us from bad to good. Then you can start to figure out the fit and wether Fox or Simmons or Sabonis fits the core the best.

At last this should be the point where majority of people recognize that every loss from now on benfits us. Every minute to Queta, Woodard, Ramsey, King ect benefits us. Every additional future asset benefits us, not playing our core too much and risking injuries benefits us.

Lets lock up a great draft position, see where we land and then worry about the fit and wether we can turn Fox into a better fitting piece

Unfortunately we have let opportunities pass because what should have been clear to Monte apparently was not.

Barnes to Boston last year was a huge missed opportunity. Boston’s 1st and Nesmith would have likely dropped us one spot and netted us Wagner. In addition, Boston’s pick could well have netted us Sengun and at worst gotten us Jalen Johnson.

Once we took Mitchell, it’s possible over the summer a Fox for Simmons trade was likely possible.

Both trades are now off the table and this draft isn’t nearly as deep as last years. Monte appears to wait until the move for him is a sure thing. Unfortunately making a major trade with that criteria is unlikely.

 

[SLAB]

Apparently Morey wants Hali and multiple firsts for Simmons. Lmao, kick rocks dude.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Both trades are now off the table and this draft isn’t nearly as deep as last years. Monte appears to wait until the move for him is a sure thing. Unfortunately making a major trade with that criteria is unlikely.

it’s still speculation to say those trades were on the table and if anything the evidence leans no. The current chatter suggests the Sixers have no interest in Fox. If Morey didn’t want him now he didn’t want him in the off-season. The majority on this board though Ben could be had for Buddy and Barnes at that time. The reality is Morey stayed patient and it appears to have paid off. I’ve heard some say Boston wanted Barnes and just as many saying they didn’t have interest at that price. Who knows.

 

[kb02]

it’s still speculation to say those trades were on the table and if anything the evidence leans no. The current chatter suggests the Sixers have no interest in Fox. If Morey didn’t want him now he didn’t want him in the off-season. The majority on this board though Ben could be had for Buddy and Barnes at that time. The reality is Morey stayed patient and it appears to have paid off. I’ve heard some say Boston wanted Barnes and just as many saying they didn’t have interest at that price. Who knows.

Speculation, no?

Not a matter of want. A matter of price. Fox had much more value last summer, no? Still. Today? Fox + Hali for Simmons + Harris? Morey drives Simmons and Harris to the airport.

 

[Livinthedream]

Unfortunately we have let opportunities pass because what should have been clear to Monte apparently was not.

Barnes to Boston last year was a huge missed opportunity. Boston’s 1st and Nesmith would have likely dropped us one spot and netted us Wagner. In addition, Boston’s pick could well have netted us Sengun and at worst gotten us Jalen Johnson.

Once we took Mitchell, it’s possible over the summer a Fox for Simmons trade was likely possible.

Both trades are now off the table and this draft isn’t nearly as deep as last years. Monte appears to wait until the move for him is a sure thing. Unfortunately making a major trade with that criteria is unlikely.

This team should never have entered the season with Fox, Haliburton, Hield, Davis, Mitchell and Ramsey on the roster. All of these players deserve to play in some fashion. Guaranteed to bury or underdevelop or irritate multiple players on the team and waste the assets you have.

Mitchell is 23 and ready to play now. Monte liked his defense and attitude, but what does it matter if he's not on the court a significant amount of time for the Kings to take advantage.

If Monte truly thought we're in a positionless era of basketball and size doesn't matter, then I would have to question his basketball acumen. I'm no Walton fan, but both Walton and Gentry have elected to start two undersized centers in order to keep up with the size and physicality of other teams. The 3 guard line-up is not where it's at when they're 6'5 and under.

So yeah....mistakes have been made. No pass for Monte from me. He has 2 of his own lottery picks on this roster and the team is actually doing worse than the last couple of years.

 

[sactowndog]

it’s still speculation to say those trades were on the table and if anything the evidence leans no. The current chatter suggests the Sixers have no interest in Fox. If Morey didn’t want him now he didn’t want him in the off-season. The majority on this board though Ben could be had for Buddy and Barnes at that time. The reality is Morey stayed patient and it appears to have paid off. I’ve heard some say Boston wanted Barnes and just as many saying they didn’t have interest at that price. Who knows.

The likelyhood of the Sixer trade is conjecture given what was reported. The Boston trade, I’m 95% certain the trade was on the table.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Speculation, no?

Not a matter of want. A matter of price. Fox had much more value last summer, no? Still. Today? Fox + Hali for Simmons + Harris? Morey drives Simmons and Harris to the airport.

we won’t know for sure until a trade happens but I don’t think we could have traded Fox for Simmons before the season. It’s pretty hard to say if Fox’s value has changed since then, the only thing we can say for sure is it’s gone down on this board.

Morey is hedging his bets on most deals that are available now being available this off-season plus the possibility of Beal, Dame and Harden.

 

[LPKingsFan]

we won’t know for sure until a trade happens but I don’t think we could have traded Fox for Simmons before the season. It’s pretty hard to say if Fox’s value has changed since then, the only thing we can say for sure is it’s gone down on this board.

Morey is hedging his bets on most deals that are available now being available this off-season plus the possibility of Beal, Dame and Harden.

I think it's fair to say Fox's value likely has declined since the summer.

But I also question whether, even with Fox holding a higher value, there was a deal on the table with the Sixers over the summer that the Kings should have taken. If I recall correctly, the first rumblings were that the Sixers saw Fox "as a starting point," i.e., the Kings would have had to add value on top of Fox. No one here would have been happy to see that (even @kb02's original concept had the Sixers adding a pick with Simmons for Fox, not the other way around). I also think it's fair to say Simmons' value has declined since the summer, too, or at least Philly's leverage has.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I can't wait for the deadline so we can either start talking about our new players or how to build around our existing ones.

 

[ESP47]

I can't wait for the deadline so we can either start talking about our new players or how to build around our existing ones.

Gonna be fun arguing with each other about whether Mike Muscala's floor spacing will bring a championship banner to Sacramento.

 

[SLAB]

I can't wait for the deadline so we can either start talking about our new players or how to build around our existing ones.

If it’s our existing ones I’m probably done for the season. I can’t get behind these guys any longer. Lol

 

[sactowndog]

I can't wait for the deadline so we can either start talking about our new players or how to build around our existing ones.

Haha. I can’t wait for Monte to finish 8-10 take the BPA ( another guard) and then state how you always take BPA even though you have no chance of getting all the guards you have acquired on the floor.

Bogi - let go for nothing
Buddy - still here
Jaihmus Ramsey - used a 2nd
T Davis - spent a 2nd
Hali - BPA
D Wright - spent 2 seconds/dumped for TT
Mitchell - BPA

Anyone else wondering what is Monte and Vivek’s thing for guards???

 

[SacTownKid]

Haha. I can’t wait for Monte to finish 8-10 take the BPA ( another guard) and then state how you always take BPA even though you have no chance of getting all the guards you have acquired on the floor.

Bogi - let go for nothing
Buddy - still here
Jaihmus Ramsey - used a 2nd
T Davis - spent a 2nd
Hali - BPA
D Wright - spent 2 seconds/dumped for TT
Mitchell - BPA

Anyone else wondering what is Monte and Vivek’s thing for guards???

This certainly looks like a guard draft again. Some pretty decent talent too. Adding a SG wouldn't be the end of it so this draft isn't quite as bad as the last I guess.

 

[sactowndog]

This certainly looks like a guard draft again. Some pretty decent talent too. Adding a SG wouldn't be the end of it so this draft isn't quite as bad as the last I guess.

I’m guessing 1-7 goes Smith, Banchero, Holmgren, Griffin, Brown and 1 of Ivy/Sharpe… 8 starts a run of guards Ivy/Sharpe, Davis, Hardy. I expect we will be in drafting in the middle of that run

 

[Dongoodboy]

I’m guessing 1-7 goes Smith, Banchero, Holmgren, Griffin, Brown and 1 of Ivy/Sharpe… 8 starts a run of guards Ivy/Sharpe, Davis, Hardy. I expect we will be in drafting in the middle of that run

At least get a guy that can play 2 and 3 like Bennedict Mathurin, MarJon Beauchamp and Dyson Daniels. No more PG ffs.

 

[SLAB]

At least get a guy that can play 2 and 3 like Bennedict Mathurin, MarJon Beauchamp and Dyson Daniels. No more PG ffs.

I disagree. They should take the oldest and the smallest.

 

[krylia sovetov]

is there anything interesting to pick from the knicks roster if we offer fox to them?
something that will go with a unprotected FRP?

our live will be much easier if we get rid of hield or fox... in that case there's only one defensive liability to hide.

i suppose nobody wants hield, at least not in his second contract year.

 

[kb02]

is there anything interesting to pick from the knicks roster if we offer fox to them?
something that will go with a unprotected FRP?

our live will be much easier if we get rid of hield or fox... in that case there's only one defensive liability to hide.

i suppose nobody wants hield, at least not in his second contract year.

The popular returning asset seems to be RJ Barrett, but I'm not really a fan of his--unless he morphs into Ron Artest over night (unlikely). I think he has an even lower ceiling than Fox, so what's the point. Toppin is Bagley 2.0, but older. The only reason the Kings trade Fox is if they're upgrading talent.

 

[Kingster]

We don't need an upgrade in talent over Fox if we trade Fox. If the Kings can get a better complement to Halliburton than Fox with a player of comparable talent they will be much better, imo. This roster doesn't fit well together. The GM's chore is to find the pieces that fit and don't subtract net talent. If he does that, it's a job well done. It's highly unlikely that McNair is going to fleece somebody and they are going to send the Kings better talent than what they get from the Kings in return.

 

[Turgenev]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1486061308948598785

 

[kb02]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1486061308948598785

75% of the team in the lower left quadrant is just so lolzzz. Wouldn’t expect Mitchell to be net negative defensively, so that immediately brings up a red flag as to just how much of the data is distorted by the other four players on the court.

 

[ESP47]

75% of the team in the lower left quadrant is just so lolzzz. Wouldn’t expect Mitchell to be net negative defensively, so that immediately brings up a red flag as to just how much of the data is distorted by the other four players on the court.

IMO he hasn't looked very good defensively since the first week or two of the season.

 

[kb02]

I’ll go on the record, getting Grant for Mitchell and a first without an extension from Grant would be an absolute disaster and McNair should be fired.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265558/Kings-Hawks-Emerge-As-Strong-Suitors-For-Jerami-Grant

 

[SacTownKid]

At least get a guy that can play 2 and 3 like Bennedict Mathurin, MarJon Beauchamp and Dyson Daniels. No more PG ffs.

The Kings being one year further into the crossroads might help though. Look, if the Kings still suck by the 3rd month of next season it's time. Blow it the F up. I would much rather that start with a player like Jaden Ivey/Johnny Davis then most of the bigger guards/not really wings in this draft.

 

[SacTownKid]

I’ll go on the record, getting Grant for Mitchell and a first without an extension from Grant would be an absolute disaster and McNair should be fired.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265558/Kings-Hawks-Emerge-As-Strong-Suitors-For-Jerami-Grant

Eh, depends on what's going out with it. Long term salary is still potential for space at some point if they work it right. As it sits, if Fox/Haliburton is the core then Mitchell playing up to whatever expectations there are means he's gone at some point anyway. One team with a starting spot at FA time and he goes. Same as some of us were yelling from the mountain top about Bogdan from a few years back. Do the same things? Expect the same results. Learn from your own mistakes, but preferably learn from others.

 

[kb02]

Eh, depends on what's going out with it. Long term salary is still potential for space at some point if they work it right. As it sits, if Fox/Haliburton is the core then Mitchell playing up to whatever expectations there are means he's gone at some point anyway. One team with a starting spot at FA time and he goes. Same as some of us were yelling from the mountain top about Bogdan from a few years back. Do the same things? Expect the same results. Learn from your own mistakes, but preferably learn from others.

Kings aren’t getting Grant for Buddy and Bagley. It’ll be Mitchell and a first if it happens. For the joy of having him on the Kings for a 1.5 year rental in order to make the play in spot for this and next year.

 

[SacTownKid]

Kings aren’t getting Grant for Buddy and Bagley. It’ll be Mitchell and a first if it happens. For the joy of having him on the Kings for a 1.5 year rental in order to make the play in spot for this and next year.

Uh, that's the plan though. And if that's the plan then go with it. That's better than sitting in the middle. Grant is a bit overrated and being traded a year too late but a middling first rounder in another guard draft and for a player I think under these circumstances is either gone or overpaid anyway isn't a total loss. Not preferable but this is the corner Monte paints himself into if he's all in on Fox/Haliburton. Grant is much better for them then Mitchell and that does matter. Monte just needs to be a little more careful. Like not go all in financially. Like running it back like he did this summer. Harkless and TD making 8-9 million matters. That's 8-9 less to potentially work another deal or two to get space to take on bad deals/picks or sign need guys for Fox/Haliburton.

 

[kb02]

Uh, that's the plan though. And if that's the plan then go with it. That's better than sitting in the middle. Grant is a bit overrated and being traded a year too late but a middling first rounder in another guard draft and for a player I think under these circumstances is either gone or overpaid anyway isn't a total loss. Not preferable but this is the corner Monte paints himself into if he's all in on Fox/Haliburton. Grant is much better for them then Mitchell and that does matter. Monte just needs to be a little more careful. Like not go all in financially. Like running it back like he did this summer. Harkless and TD making 8-9 million matters. That's 8-9 less to potentially work another deal or two to get space to take on bad deals/picks or sign need guys for Fox/Haliburton.

Treadmilling while sacrificing a young player and a first is continuing the same disastrous path. That trade happens, McNair needs to go.