Trade targets

[dude12]

Thought it might be time to look at other trade targets besides Simmons and or Sabonis.

Specifically, looking for either a big deal, say for Jerami Grant, or for a lesser wing who can help balance out the roster.

For lesser targets, I’d absolutely use Holmes as a trade piece to go with a Hield, Bagley, TD.

I think next years first should be on the table as well.

If going for a big trade, I think you do use Davion as trade bait but that player better be awfully good.

Id be keeping Fox and Hali.

I think Grant would be an interesting fit here.

 

[kb02]

Thought it might be time to look at other trade targets besides Simmons and or Sabonis.

Specifically, looking for either a big deal, say for Jerami Grant, or for a lesser wing who can help balance out the roster.

For lesser targets, I’d absolutely use Holmes as a trade piece to go with a Hield, Bagley, TD.

I think next years first should be on the table as well.

If going for a big trade, I think you do use Davion as trade bait but that player better be awfully good.

Id be keeping Fox and Hali.

I think Grant would be an interesting fit here.

Grant solves the wing defense issues.
Grant left Denver to be the number one scoring option.
He's an okay shooter from 3. 33% this year. Not quite bad, not quite good. Okay.
And he's an okay passer. Not quite bad, not quite good.
Has made zero all star teams and zero all NBA defenses.
Is 27 going on 28 years old, so he doesn't exactly fit the Hali timeline.
And will cost Mitchell and a first to get him.

Translation: he's the wrong Detroit wing to target. Bey is a better shooter, younger, and a better contract. Doesn't need the ball, doesn't need to be the primary scoring option, and plays good defense though not quite as good as Grant.

 

[ESP47]

I'd trade everyone other than Hali and Mitchell for picks and young players and start it all over again.

They need to stop winning meaningless games on the backs of players like Hield so a top 5 pick can be secured to start the rebuild already.

Top 5 pick this year, top 5 next year + picks acquired through trades + Hali and Mitchell development and lets see what we've got this next go round.

It ain't happening with Fox. Solid player but his impact on the game is not that of a #1 on a winning team. Gotta keep going until they find that guy.

 

[dude12]

Maybe assume that Fox and Hali are going to be here going forward. Assume that backcourt won’t change, whether or not you agree with it or not. Monte has said as much that both are staying. Now what. Not really looking for opinions on whether that’s right or not but what or who do you go after now? Bey is interesting although last time I checked, his stat line was not as good as last years but I haven’t looked in a while.

I do like the Patrick Williams angle that someone had brought up somewhere else.

 

[ESP47]

Maybe assume that Fox and Hali are going to be here going forward. Assume that backcourt won’t change, whether or not you agree with it or not. Monte has said as much that both are staying. Now what. Not really looking for opinions on whether that’s right or not but what or who do you go after now? Bey is interesting although last time I checked, his stat line was not as good as last years but I haven’t looked in a while.

I do like the Patrick Williams angle that someone had brought up somewhere else.

I know it's probably annoying and not what you want to hear but if I have to assume that the backcourt won't change, then I will basically guarantee that they pick late lottery from here on out. I don't see how Monte can take the trade value that he has on the roster and acquire any kind of impact player that would help the Kings win for the next few years. Fox is the only player that holds real value, outside of maybe Hali.

 

[The Effort Police]

I'd trade everyone other than Hali and Mitchell for picks and young players and start it all over again.

They need to stop winning meaningless games on the backs of players like Hield so a top 5 pick can be secured to start the rebuild already.

Top 5 pick this year, top 5 next year + picks acquired through trades + Hali and Mitchell development and lets see what we've got this next go round.

It ain't happening with Fox. Solid player but his impact on the game is not that of a #1 on a winning team. Gotta keep going until they find that guy.

Is Mitchell really it though?

Right now, he's basically diet Fox offensively while being worse on that end of the floor than rookie Fox was while being 3 years older. If there were any concerns about fit with Fox and Hali, Mitchell doesn't alleviate them.

If they're going to move on from Fox, I'd rather it be for a boatload of frontcourt assets cuz they need like 5 good ones to fix that mess and he's the only way, not because Mitchell is the ideal backcourt mate for Hali.

 

[SLAB]

I don’t think Mitchell is nearly as untouchable as people like to think.

Hali’s the closest.

 

[Spike]

Maybe trying to steer back to the intent of the OP:

What wings are out there, available for the taking? Grant makes sense, especially off of an injury, as a buy low option. I doubt we can get Bey.

Or a better question: what bench players on other teams would start at the 3 here in Sacramento in a meaningful way?

 

[kingsboi]

Maybe trying to steer back to the intent of the OP:

What wings are out there, available for the taking? Grant makes sense, especially off of an injury, as a buy low option. I doubt we can get Bey.

Or a better question: what bench players on other teams would start at the 3 here in Sacramento in a meaningful way?

TJ Warren. He's been out all season but get him healed up for this season and have him ready to go for next season. Cam Reddish as another option since the Hawks can't pay to keep everyone, one domino will have to fall.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I would trade Fox and Mitchell, if it meant getting a good SG/SF to pair with Haliburton. In my opinion, you could build a contender with Haliburton as your lead guard. I don't believe you really can with the other two and don't want to see us continue to start two point guards. We need a real SG, so Hali can lead the offense as much as possible and have a good shooter at the other guard position.

I would commit to Jones as my starting 5... pay him after this season, and make Holmes and Barnes available for trade. Both have good value around the league and would fit on a lot of teams, which opens up different deal options.

 

[ESP47]

Is Mitchell really it though?

Right now, he's basically diet Fox offensively while being worse on that end of the floor than rookie Fox was while being 3 years older. If there were any concerns about fit with Fox and Hali, Mitchell doesn't alleviate them.

If they're going to move on from Fox, I'd rather it be for a boatload of frontcourt assets cuz they need like 5 good ones to fix that mess and he's the only way, not because Mitchell is the ideal backcourt mate for Hali.

I don't think he's really it but I'm not going to write him off after half a season either. Even if he's an older rookie, being a rookie means he has a higher chance of developing into something over most of the other current players on the roster. Combine that with his work ethic and he's not a player I'd give up on right now. It's more of a keep him and see what we've got type of deal. Not because I think he's a plug and play Fox replacement.

Unless a GM made a really good offer, I don't see any reason to trade Mitchell when his value isn't very high right now.

 

[dude12]

How about OG Anunoby? Got his new contract. Makes around 16-18M going forward. I would absolutely offer up Holmes and then another small piece if need be. I think it benefits both teams by balancing the rosters. OG is shooting only 43% from the floor and about 35-36 from 3 but it’s his defense that we would want.

That is a type of deal that I would be pursuing if we can’t make a home run deal.

 

[kb02]

How about OG Anunoby? Got his new contract. Makes around 16-18M going forward. I would absolutely offer up Holmes and then another small piece if need be. I think it benefits both teams by balancing the rosters. OG is shooting only 43% from the floor and about 35-36 from 3 but it’s his defense that we would want.

That is a type of deal that I would be pursuing if we can’t make a home run deal.

Raps value Anounby like how the Kings value Hali.

 

[twslam07]

How about OG Anunoby? Got his new contract. Makes around 16-18M going forward. I would absolutely offer up Holmes and then another small piece if need be. I think it benefits both teams by balancing the rosters. OG is shooting only 43% from the floor and about 35-36 from 3 but it’s his defense that we would want.

That is a type of deal that I would be pursuing if we can’t make a home run deal.

That’s not nearly enough for Anunoby. They value him like we do Halliburton.

 

[kb02]

That’s not nearly enough for Anunoby. They value him like we do Halliburton.

RealGM has it's pros and cons, but one of its greatest pros is it gives intel into how teams/fans value their own. Anounby is damn near untouchable for Raps fans.

Likewise, it also gives a pretty good idea of how other teams view Kings players. The player with the highest value, undeniably, is Hali. The player with the least value right now? Hield.

 

[dude12]

What the fans value and what the team’s brass values is probably not the same. OG is a fan favorite, Holmes is a fan favorite. But I did say we could add in something else, I just don’t know what that would be. Both players have strengths and weaknesses. What I know is Sac needs a wing and Toronto could still use a big.

 

[kb02]

What the fans value and what the team’s brass values is probably not the same. OG is a fan favorite, Holmes is a fan favorite. But I did say we could add in something else, I just don’t know what that would be. Both players have strengths and weaknesses. What I know is Sac needs a wing and Toronto could still use a big.

Sorry, but if you think Holmes can net Anounby, there really isn't much to discuss. I'll leave this part of the convo here.

 

[twslam07]

For what you're looking at giving up (Holmes, Mitchell, and/or future 1st. Hield, Bagley, & Davis are neutral at best but likely negative value in Buddy's case), you're probably limited to these types of players for a SF or PF:

• Danilo Gallinari
• Cam Reddish
• Josh Richardson
• Aaron Nesmith
• PJ Washington
• Jerami Grant
• Christian Wood
• TJ Warren
• Kyle Anderson
• Josh Hart
• Robert Covington
• Thaddeus Young
• Kyle Kuzma

I personally like PJ Washington & Ish Smith for Richaun Holmes. It gives the Hornets a clear upgrade at C with a solid starting lineup of Rozier-Ball-Bridges-Hayward-Holmes. Washington would be an upgrade at PF for us and we'd rely on Jones, Len, & Thompson at C.

However, I think trading for Grant probably makes us better this year but sacrifices our future as it likely costs us our 1st round pick next year and/or Mitchell. Could see a bidding war at the deadline driving up his price.

 

[dude12]

For what you're looking at giving up (Holmes, Mitchell, and/or future 1st. Hield, Bagley, & Davis are neutral at best but likely negative value in Buddy's case), you're probably limited to these types of players for a SF or PF:

• Danilo Gallinari
• Cam Reddish
• Josh Richardson
• Aaron Nesmith
• PJ Washington
• Jerami Grant
• Christian Wood
• TJ Warren
• Kyle Anderson
• Josh Hart
• Robert Covington
• Thaddeus Young
• Kyle Kuzma

I personally like PJ Washington & Ish Smith for Richaun Holmes. It gives the Hornets a clear upgrade at C with a solid starting lineup of Rozier-Ball-Bridges-Hayward-Holmes. Washington would be an upgrade at PF for us and we'd rely on Jones, Len, & Thompson at C.

However, I think trading for Grant probably makes us better this year but sacrifices our future as it likely costs us our 1st round pick next year and/or Mitchell. Could see a bidding war at the deadline driving up his price.

That’s a solid list. I don’t think Washington gives up Kuzma currently …..but I’m assuming they are in the playoff hunt and I could be wrong on that. I’d check on him as well as Avdija who is a heck of a defensive player.

Reddish is a guy I’d like. I still think Grant could be a target but it also depends on how high the price goes.

TJ Warren and Patrick Williams would be solid next year but doesn’t help this year.

 

[The_Jamal]

Is Mitchell really it though?

Right now, he's basically diet Fox offensively while being worse on that end of the floor than rookie Fox was while being 3 years older. If there were any concerns about fit with Fox and Hali, Mitchell doesn't alleviate them.

If they're going to move on from Fox, I'd rather it be for a boatload of frontcourt assets cuz they need like 5 good ones to fix that mess and he's the only way, not because Mitchell is the ideal backcourt mate for Hali.

https://twitter.com/statuses/1478172367805313024

Rough offensive start to the year, but he's finding a groove and of course has by far the best defensive guard/wing defense on the team. I don't think he is ever the best player on a title team, but I certainly see paths where he's the most important glue piece around star offensive talent.

 

[cwebb2002]

Honestly, what i have seen over the last few games is that the bigs are routinely out of position on the defensive end and people are killing us inside, irrespective of who is in there. This was especially notable against mavs (hell dwight powell scored like 10 straight points on open dunks). We dont have tge greatest perimeter defenders except mitchell so moving for 1 piece isn't going to fix that. What i think we need is a top flight rim protector who can actually help smaller players when they get beat.

1. The primary target should be Myles Turner. He is unhappy in Indie and they want a rebuild of sorts. Bagley and TT and a future first (2022 or 2023) for Turner is where i start to help shore up defense. That gives them a good look at bagley who probably fits next to sabonis better than turner, and if they want to pass, gets $21M off there books next year. I would also.

2. Then consider moving hali and barnes for Jaylen Brown. I think brown fits well next to fox and hali and Barnes will fit very well with the Cs, allowing Tatum to move back to SF with Barnes at the 4, Hali at the 1 moving Schroeder to the bench adds tons of shooting and creativity for them.

For the kings, brown is a better player in facet vs Hali and Barnes. He is an elite player in the game.

The kings lineup would be
Fox/Mitchell
Buddy/TD
Brown/harkless
Turner/Metu
Holmes/len/jones

I would try to fit fox on the Cs but i doubt the salaries match if we start throwing other players in and i dont thinknfox and picks would get it done for brown.

 

[twslam07]

Honestly, what i have seen over the last few games is that the bigs are routinely out of position on the defensive end and people are killing us inside, irrespective of who is in there. This was especially notable against mavs (hell dwight powell scored like 10 straight points on open dunks). We dont have tge greatest perimeter defenders except mitchell so moving for 1 piece isn't going to fix that. What i think we need is a top flight rim protector who can actually help smaller players when they get beat.

1. The primary target should be Myles Turner. He is unhappy in Indie and they want a rebuild of sorts. Bagley and TT and a future first (2022 or 2023) for Turner is where i start to help shore up defense. That gives them a good look at bagley who probably fits next to sabonis better than turner, and if they want to pass, gets $21M off there books next year. I would also.

2. Then consider moving hali and barnes for Jaylen Brown. I think brown fits well next to fox and hali and Barnes will fit very well with the Cs, allowing Tatum to move back to SF with Barnes at the 4, Hali at the 1 moving Schroeder to the bench adds tons of shooting and creativity for them.

For the kings, brown is a better player in facet vs Hali and Barnes. He is an elite player in the game.

The kings lineup would be
Fox/Mitchell
Buddy/TD
Brown/harkless
Turner/Metu
Holmes/len/jones

I would try to fit fox on the Cs but i doubt the salaries match if we start throwing other players in and i dont thinknfox and picks would get it done for brown.

You’ll likely need to send out more than that to get Turner. Likely Mitchell and a 1st.

Turner should be playing C so if we do trade for him, we should look to flip Holmes for someone who balances the roster.

Bagley, Mitchell, and 2022 SAC 1st (Top 8 Protected) for Turner

Holmes for PJ Washington & Ish Smith

PG - Fox / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Hield / Woodard
PF - Washington / Metu / Harkless
C - Turner / Jones / Len / Thompson

 

[SacTownKid]

Sabonis is the better player but yeah, I'd be down with Turner because Sabonis wouldn't be nearly as important here. Heck, they can't even get consistent shots for Bagley so no doubt Sabonis would be hindered as well. And if Sabonis is not running offense or getting shots his negatives will drain all his value. Turner would be a solid spreader/pick and roll big for this teams guard tandem.

 

[The_Jamal]

You’ll likely need to send out more than that to get Turner. Likely Mitchell and a 1st.

Turner should be playing C so if we do trade for him, we should look to flip Holmes for someone who balances the roster.

Bagley, Mitchell, and 2022 SAC 1st (Top 8 Protected) for Turner

Holmes for PJ Washington & Ish Smith

PG - Fox / Smith
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Barnes / Hield / Woodard
PF - Washington / Metu / Harkless
C - Turner / Jones / Len / Thompson

The Holmes for PJ swap is so good for both teams. PJ is a really good 2-way player that I think compliments Fox/Hali pretty well. Great length on defense, can hedge out to the perimeter, is an excellent, excellent spacer, has small-ball 5 potential. He's an underrated playmaker too with an AST rate above 10% in all of his 3 seasons. He's still just 23 too, so he'd absolutely qualify as a future piece that could step right in to a major starting role and be a good player.

And the Hornets just don't have room for him with Bridges really popping at the 4 this season. Holmes is an unreal fit in that uptempo offense as a roll man for Melo and provides some actual rim protection on defense. And with Holmes being so cost-effective, they don't run into potential money problems down the line.

 

[serbiangoat]

Turner is soft and really outside of making wide open shots and help side blocks is useless at every other aspect of basketball. He can't create or do anything on his own why would you trade for someone like that who is making massive money. He a glorified 4th option kind of like Ibaka was on the Thunder and 1 on 1 aside from the odd block he gets schooled. 100% not a guy you got after being as overpaid as he is unless you get elite players on rookie contracts/medium deals and you can contend.

 

[twslam07]

Turner is soft and really outside of making wide open shots and help side blocks is useless at every other aspect of basketball. He can't create or do anything on his own why would you trade for someone like that who is making massive money. He a glorified 4th option kind of like Ibaka was on the Thunder and 1 on 1 aside from the odd block he gets schooled. 100% not a guy you got after being as overpaid as he is unless you get elite players on rookie contracts/medium deals and you can contend.

Nobody is saying that Turner is an offensive stallworth. His calling card is his defense and that shouldn’t be overlooked simply because you think he’s a 4th option.

These are Turner’s advanced impact stats this year thus far:


LEBRON = +3.04 (15th in league)
DLEBRON = +2.86 (3rd in league)
LA-RAPM = +2.34 (12th in league)
LA-DRAPM = +1.78 (5th in league)

…compare that to Holmes…

LEBRON = -0.08 (173rd in league)
DLEBRON = +0.67 (105th in league)
LA-RAPM = +0.18 (201st in league)
LA-DRAPM = +0.30 (152nd in league)

He’d be quite the upgrade for this team, and more importantly, this defense. It bothers me when people don’t appreciate how important defense is in this league. The Kings have been one of the worst defensive teams during their playoff drought. This is their DEFRtg ranking for each those years:

2021-22 = 27th
2020-21 = 30th
2019-20 = 19th
2018-19 = 21st
2017-18 = 27th
2016-17 = 26th
2015-16 = 22nd
2014-15 = 27th
2013-14 = 23rd
2012-13 = 29th
2011-12 = 29th
2010-11 = 20th
2009-10 = 23rd
2008-09 = 30th
2007-08 = 25th
2006-07 = 22nd

Our defense has basically been in the bottom third of the league for 16 years. That’s criminal. The last time we made the playoffs (in the 2005-06 season), our DEFRtg ranking was 11th in the league.

How about we get our priorities straight and start to bring in some players who are actually difference makers on the defensive end rather than continuing to bang our heads on a wall and expecting a different result?

 

[cwebb2002]

Turner is soft and really outside of making wide open shots and help side blocks is useless at every other aspect of basketball. He can't create or do anything on his own why would you trade for someone like that who is making massive money. He a glorified 4th option kind of like Ibaka was on the Thunder and 1 on 1 aside from the odd block he gets schooled. 100% not a guy you got after being as overpaid as he is unless you get elite players on rookie contracts/medium deals and you can contend.

Well he leads the league in blocks 2 years running, that tells me that he is at least in the right position on defense to affect the shot in most cases. Our bigs and even barnes are often out of position on defense (often because they have to step out to help the perimeter defenders), so they are giving up too many easy plays at the rim and offensive boards. How often are we seeing 22 seconds of good defense only for a put back or lob over the top of the bigs who are 7-10 feet away from the basket.

As for where he plays, the fact that he is very athletic and can hit the outside shot allows him to be played on offense with holmes even if they are both centers. I am comfortable with him playing center on defense and holmes chasing somewhat smaller players in the mid range while he takes bigger players. Holmes gets abused by people the size of Nurk, Joker, Valencunis, etc.

 

[kb02]

Well he leads the league in blocks 2 years running, that tells me that he is at least in the right position on defense to affect the shot in most cases. Our bigs and even barnes are often out of position on defense (often because they have to step out to help the perimeter defenders), so they are giving up too many easy plays at the rim and offensive boards. How often are we seeing 22 seconds of good defense only for a put back or lob over the top of the bigs who are 7-10 feet away from the basket.

As for where he plays, the fact that he is very athletic and can hit the outside shot allows him to be played on offense with holmes even if they are both centers. I am comfortable with him playing center on defense and holmes chasing somewhat smaller players in the mid range while he takes bigger players. Holmes gets abused by people the size of Nurk, Joker, Valencunis, etc.

I think blocks is a poor way to measure someone’s defensive impact. If they played equal minutes, Hali will likely get more blocks than Mitchell, but no one, in their right mind, would rate Hali as a better defender than Mitchell. Holmes, for example, has decent block numbers, but he’s not an elite defender. Give me the non-box score defensive counting stats that Adams or Jonas gets over the flashy off the ball/gambling defensive stats all day.

 

[twslam07]

I think blocks is a poor way to measure someone’s defensive impact. If they played equal minutes, Hali will likely get more blocks than Mitchell, but no one, in their right mind, would rate Hali as a better defender than Mitchell. Holmes, for example, has decent block numbers, but he’s not an elite defender. Give me the non-box score defensive counting stats that Adams or Jonas gets over the flashy off the ball/gambling defensive stats all day.

Turner has that too.

 

[Turgenev]

Turner has that too.

Wasn't Indy close to trading Turner for Gordon Heyward an offseason ago? I doubt he comes cheap but it's not like he isn't gettable.