Blow It Up
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
You do realize the guy drafted in Boston’s spot Alpheren Sengun has played pretty well. 7th on the Kia Rookie ladder.
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-dec-29-2021
Not to mention the fact had we traded Harrison Barnes, we would have surely lost at least one more game. One more loss would have put us 8th and in the spot to grab Wagner who is the top of this Rookie ladder.
So you are right we should be kicking ourselves.
Center: Holmes, Len
PF: Sengun, Metu
SF: Wagner, Harkless, King
2 guard: Fox, Buddy
Point: Hali, Mitchell, Wright.
If that were our line-up I would be ecstatic.
https://www.nba.com/news/kia-rookie-ladder-dec-29-2021
Not to mention the fact had we traded Harrison Barnes, we would have surely lost at least one more game. One more loss would have put us 8th and in the spot to grab Wagner who is the top of this Rookie ladder.
So you are right we should be kicking ourselves.
Center: Holmes, Len
PF: Sengun, Metu
SF: Wagner, Harkless, King
2 guard: Fox, Buddy
Point: Hali, Mitchell, Wright.
If that were our line-up I would be ecstatic.
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I felt the ball should be in Hali’s hands last year and that he had the higher long term ceiling. As noted here: https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/trade-suggestion-fox-for-simmons-28.79959/
Just weak signals becoming strong signals.
Just weak signals becoming strong signals.
He's not an all-star this year.
You keep mentioning weak signals, but you're avoiding the strongest of signals here. Simmons is not ready. If he is truly dealing with mental issues, we're not getting the player you think we are. If he's not dealing with them, then we're getting a different kind of head case.
Finally, there's no way I trade Fox this year. This organization has yet to show any shred of competency, why would we try and reset when we don't know who's driving the bus next year?
Who is coming in to coach the team next year? Gentry? You'll get more of what you saw this year. There's no way Simmons buys in to him. I don't even think he'd buy into someone like Christie - a new guy with (from an outsider's perspective) no history of coaching.
I think Kings fans are being disingenuous if they think we've competently tried to put a winning team on the floor with this crew. They showed growth and promise under Joerger. Do you really think Walton was a step forward? That's kind of the argument you're making if you think we've peaked with Fox, Buddy, Barnes, etc. You're effectively saying, "well, we tried to make this team better with Walton as coach, and it didn't work. Clearly the players are the problem" despite all of the data to the contrary.
Give this team a quality coach and see if they can't win.
Yes. This lineup is flawed, and the roster is unbalanced. But the guy at the front of the bench is the more important move going forward. And Buddy needs to be moved for a quality starting wing. That's an easy move to make.
You keep mentioning weak signals, but you're avoiding the strongest of signals here. Simmons is not ready. If he is truly dealing with mental issues, we're not getting the player you think we are. If he's not dealing with them, then we're getting a different kind of head case.
Finally, there's no way I trade Fox this year. This organization has yet to show any shred of competency, why would we try and reset when we don't know who's driving the bus next year?
Who is coming in to coach the team next year? Gentry? You'll get more of what you saw this year. There's no way Simmons buys in to him. I don't even think he'd buy into someone like Christie - a new guy with (from an outsider's perspective) no history of coaching.
I think Kings fans are being disingenuous if they think we've competently tried to put a winning team on the floor with this crew. They showed growth and promise under Joerger. Do you really think Walton was a step forward? That's kind of the argument you're making if you think we've peaked with Fox, Buddy, Barnes, etc. You're effectively saying, "well, we tried to make this team better with Walton as coach, and it didn't work. Clearly the players are the problem" despite all of the data to the contrary.
Give this team a quality coach and see if they can't win.
Yes. This lineup is flawed, and the roster is unbalanced. But the guy at the front of the bench is the more important move going forward. And Buddy needs to be moved for a quality starting wing. That's an easy move to make.
My argument is best summarized in this thread: https://community.kingsfans.com/threads/trade-suggestion-fox-for-simmons-28.79959/
As TheJamal would say Talent Matters.
As TheJamal would say Talent Matters.
Talent matters in context. On paper, not in the real world, Simmons>Fox and it's not really close. But you can't ignore Simmons off-the-court problems and potentially career altering mental issues he's dealing with. Add in the fact that Philly has clearly backed themselves into a corner with his value around the league and it just doesn't make sense to pay near full price to acquire an incredibly volatile asset in Simmons.
Like I've said since that thread, if we can buy low, great, take the risk. But the Kings certainly are not in a position to trade their best asset they have team control over for the next 4 years on a hunch that Simmons comes back as the same player.
Like I've said since that thread, if we can buy low, great, take the risk. But the Kings certainly are not in a position to trade their best asset they have team control over for the next 4 years on a hunch that Simmons comes back as the same player.
Because Morey is as crazy as Simmons. Dude is asking for so much in return in a Simmons trade you’d think Ben is prime LeBron. Lots of teams are trying to get him but Daryl is like “Sure, give me your best player, three best prospects, four future 1sts (unprotected), the kitchen sink, and a partridge in a pear tree.”
For the record, I want us to stay away from Simmons either way. This team is already full of soft babies. We don’t need another one, no matter how talented.
I’m seeing a lot of Fox + Buddy + Bagley for Brown + filler from the Celtics talk out there on the web (speculation, not even rumors). I’d be all over that.
For the record, I want us to stay away from Simmons either way. This team is already full of soft babies. We don’t need another one, no matter how talented.
I’m seeing a lot of Fox + Buddy + Bagley for Brown + filler from the Celtics talk out there on the web (speculation, not even rumors). I’d be all over that.
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Okay then consider this: Damian Jones is 26. Fox, Davis, and Metu are 24. Mitchell is 23. Queta and Bagley are 22. Haliburton is 21. So your core may not be elite right now but the average age is 23 years old. They have a lot of room left to grow. And all I'm talking about is making the playoffs. If you can make the playoffs with a core that is 23 years old and nobody older than 26 you have a large window of opportunity to add to your core group. It's pretty rare that a team jumps from top of the lottery to contending without first losing a couple of playoff series. All we need to do to make the playoffs this season is finish with a .500 record. There's only 4 good teams in the West this year, finishing with a .500 or better record is not impossible -- we just need to find some consistency.
You're calling Queta/Jones/Metu/Bagley the worst frontcourt in the league but how can you even know that? Queta has played all of 4 minutes in his NBA career. Bagley has started less than a full season. Jones and Metu have played limited minutes. People were clowning me for calling Rudy Gobert elite in 2016. Since then he's won three DPOY awards. Nikola Jokic was drafted in the 2nd round and . If 15 years of losing has taught me anything it's that big name prospects frequently don't live up to the hype and big name free agents often end up being overpaid veterans who's effect on your salary cap outweighs their impact on the court.
And the truth is, the Western Conference is wide open right now with two teams at the top that are heavily reliant on a single star player (Golden State and Phoenix), a team which hasn't been able to advance past the Semifinals in the last 5 years (Utah) and Memphis team which is similar to ours, they just know how to play well together. If we were facing six or seven contending teams I would agree with you -- bottom out for star talent. That's been the story for most of the last decade but the bar has gotten a lot lower even without thinking about the play-in. Even a 6 seed is not out of the question. Our primary issue right now is not talent but fit. It's fixable. Especially in a world where most of the league still thinks the only way to win is to tank for top 5 picks.
You're calling Queta/Jones/Metu/Bagley the worst frontcourt in the league but how can you even know that? Queta has played all of 4 minutes in his NBA career. Bagley has started less than a full season. Jones and Metu have played limited minutes. People were clowning me for calling Rudy Gobert elite in 2016. Since then he's won three DPOY awards. Nikola Jokic was drafted in the 2nd round and . If 15 years of losing has taught me anything it's that big name prospects frequently don't live up to the hype and big name free agents often end up being overpaid veterans who's effect on your salary cap outweighs their impact on the court.
And the truth is, the Western Conference is wide open right now with two teams at the top that are heavily reliant on a single star player (Golden State and Phoenix), a team which hasn't been able to advance past the Semifinals in the last 5 years (Utah) and Memphis team which is similar to ours, they just know how to play well together. If we were facing six or seven contending teams I would agree with you -- bottom out for star talent. That's been the story for most of the last decade but the bar has gotten a lot lower even without thinking about the play-in. Even a 6 seed is not out of the question. Our primary issue right now is not talent but fit. It's fixable. Especially in a world where most of the league still thinks the only way to win is to tank for top 5 picks.
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