Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28

kb02

kb02

All-Star
#841
#841
Just sliding in to say I would still do a Fox for Simmons swap. Fox + filler for Simmons, a first, and filler. Hell, I would do Fox for Simmons straight up. Simmons value has gotten pummeled, but 6'10, 25 year old, all NBA defending, point forwards don't grow on trees.

That said, maybe things get nastier in Philly and Buddy + Bagley + two firsts gets it done. Unlikely, but hope so.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#842
#842
KingsFanSince85 said:
No, he shouldn’t.
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Why? If he wants the best chance to win a championship it’s with the Sixers. And you know what, they have been good to him.

Doc was wrong, but much worse things have been said and it’s been overblown. The Embiid bit is overblown as well. Everyone knows players from other countries tend to be more blunt and it’s often not meant as an insult. He is a great player that the Sixers value but 16 points a game and 30 percent from the line isn’t going to get it done. He should take a bit of accountability and get better. I’m generally on the players side but I think he is just being immature. Go back and try for another year and then revisit a trade on better terms next offseason.
 
EIM86

EIM86

Starter
#843
#843
iowamcnabb said:
Simmons should just go back, this is all petty non sense. Both sides are at fault but this hold out doesn't help anyone. Will the Sixers suspend Ben for "failure to render services?" How about a gentleman's agreement to give it one more go before a trade in the offseason.

I think it was the Ringer that said CJ was still the best trade on the table. If a Simmons/ Dame pairing didn't work they would have two max guys wanting out :D
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he should but as a Kings fan, I’m thoroughly enjoying this :cool:
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#844
#844
iowamcnabb said:
Why? If he wants the best chance to win a championship it’s with the Sixers. And you know what, they have been good to him.
.
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Why should he stay?

His best chance to win a championship is NOT with the Sixers. Have you not been paying attention the past several years or to recent events?

As for having “been good to him”, again, have you not been paying attention?

Your reasoning conflicts with the reality of the situation.
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#845
#845
KingsFanSince85 said:
Why should he stay?

His best chance to win a championship is NOT with the Sixers. Have you not been paying attention the past several years or to recent events?

As for having “been good to him”, again, have you not been paying attention?

Your reasoning conflicts with the reality of the situation.
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right he has a better chance with the Kings or Wolves :rolleyes:

40 mil a year, a head coach change partially due to him and you think he is the victim. Get real
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#848
#848
KingsFanSince85 said:
Why should he stay?

His best chance to win a championship is NOT with the Sixers. Have you not been paying attention the past several years or to recent events?

As for having “been good to him”, again, have you not been paying attention?

Your reasoning conflicts with the reality of the situation.
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I have to disagree. The Sixers have bent over backwards to accommodate Simmons his whole career. After the playoffs a lot of heat was thrown his way. This is the first time any real criticism has fallen on him. Over all, I didn't think it was all that bad (heard much worse over the years). He could have had many responses to this, but the main 2 options were to either come back better and prove everyone wrong or to crawl in a hole while blaming everyone else for his problems. He made the wrong choice IMO.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#849
#849
Telemachus said:
I have to disagree. The Sixers have bent over backwards to accommodate Simmons his whole career. After the playoffs a lot of heat was thrown his way. This is the first time any real criticism has fallen on him. Over all, I didn't think it was all that bad (heard much worse over the years). He could have had many responses to this, but the main 2 options were to either come back better and prove everyone wrong or to crawl in a hole while blaming everyone else for his problems. He made the wrong choice IMO.
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Care to explain exactly how they have “bent over backwards” to accommodate him?

With regard to recent times, how is throwing him under the bus for their playoff failures accommodating him?
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#850
#850
KingsFanSince85 said:
Care to explain exactly how they have “bent over backwards” to accommodate him?

With regard to recent times, how is throwing him under the bus for their playoff failures accommodating him?
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How many years has he been in the NBA? Like I said above, this is the first time he has faced any criticism since he was on the Sixers. How many players can you think of that got all the way through 4 seasons before there was criticism?
 
Padrino

Padrino

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#852
#852
Telemachus said:
How many years has he been in the NBA? Like I said above, this is the first time he has faced any criticism since he was on the Sixers. How many players can you think of that got all the way through 4 seasons before there was criticism?
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This is... not true. Neither the Philly media nor Sixers fans have been particularly gentle with Ben Simmons after his rookie season. The front office and coaching staff have often bent over backwards to accommodate him since he was drafted, but it's rather fallacious to claim that Simmons has not faced any criticism to this point in his career.
 
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The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#853
#853
Padrino said:
This is... not true. Neither the Philly media nor Sixers fans have been particularly gentle with Ben Simmons after his rookie season. The front office and coaching staff have often bent over backwards to accommodate him since he was drafted, but it's rather fallacious to claim that Simmons has not faced any criticism to this point in his career.
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Also... it's like what more can you really expect from Simmons? He's been a top 15 player for a few years now. Him elevating his game further is basically faulting him for not being an all-time player rather than just an all-star/fringe all-nba player.

If only the Kings had that problem the last 15 years... where we lament the fact our lead guy isn't a HoF talent and just a fringe All-NBA talent.
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#854
#854
Padrino said:
This is... not true. Neither the Philly media nor Sixers fans have been particularly gentle with Ben Simmons after his rookie season. The front office and coaching staff have often bent over backwards to accommodate him since he was drafted, but it's rather fallacious to claim that Simmons has not faced any criticism to this point in his career.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was referring to criticism from the team.
 
K

kingwin

Bench
#855
#855
I cant stop thinking of this hypothetical, if the kings trade Fox for Simmons straight up, who to target with Buddy and Bagley? and maybe Barnes? anyone else good on the market? (not gonna happen, jus keep thinking bout it)

Mitchell
Haliburton
Simmons
Barnes
Holmes

or do u keep Buddy as 6th man? Defense and Passing looking good. prolly needs scoring .
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#856
#856
kingwin said:
I cant stop thinking of this hypothetical, if the kings trade Fox for Simmons straight up, who to target with Buddy and Bagley? and maybe Barnes? anyone else good on the market? (not gonna happen, jus keep thinking bout it)

Mitchell
Haliburton
Simmons
Barnes
Holmes

or do u keep Buddy as 6th man? Defense and Passing looking good. prolly needs scoring .
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You keep Buddy as the 6th man as he is a perfect complement to that line-up. Or you go:
Mitchell
Haliburton
Buddy
Barnes
Simmons. (Small ball center)

The ball movement when Hali and Mitchell were on the court was spectacular. If you add Simmons playing pick and roll or dribble hand-off with Hali or Mitchell and Buddy and Barnes in the corner. Oh my goodness.

Simmons could hand off to Hali or Mitchell or if the cheat to help at all fire a pass to either Barnes or Buddy for a corner 3.

Buddy with Mitchell pressing the ball and Hali and Simmons anticipating rotation passes would be fine. Put Buddy on the weakest offensive player. Tell him don’t leave him and rest up for offense.
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#857
#857
Here's another take on a Fox for Simmons swap that could make some sense...



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PHI Gets: Bradley Beal, Buddy Hield, Davis Bertans, & Kyle Kuzma
PHI Gives: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, & Shake Milton
Why for PHI? The 76ers move on from disgruntled Simmons and land a 28 year guard who can be a legitimate 2nd option next to Embiid. Beal's ability to shoot, play on the perimeter, and play off the ball will be a solid complement to Embiid. They also land two of the best volume 3pt shooters in the league in Hield & Bertans to further space the floor. Kuzma gives them another SF/PF who can't (obviously) space the floor as much as Bertans but brings more defense and iso scoring as a change of pace. Curry, Beal, Hield, Green, & Bertans is top shelf spacing for Embiid and would allow him to further dominate.

PG - Beal / Curry / Springer
SG - Hield / Maxey / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Bertans / Kuzma / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey

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SAC Gets: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, Thomas Bryant, & Shake Milton
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
Why for SAC? With Mitchell & Haliburton already on the roster, losing Fox & Hield isn't as big of a loss as it could be. In return, they upgrade their frontcourt by adding Simmons & Harris. Simmons would have a lot of shooters to work with in Mitchell, Milton, Haliburton, Davis, Barnes, Harris, & Bryant to help maximize his skillset. Bryant's rim protection and shooting potential could be a solid fit next to Simmons long term. Milton also gives them some a solid backup PG to help out with their depth chart. Lastly, they could have an interesting death lineup to close out games in Mitchell-Haliburton-Barnes-Harris-Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Milton
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Harris / Barnes / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Harkless / Metu
C - Holmes / Bryant / Thompson / Len

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WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, Kyle Kuzma, & Thomas Bryant
Why for WAS? The Wizards clear about $30 mil in salary this season and move off of Bertans & Kuzma's salaries as they head into their rebuild. In exchange for 28 year old Beal, they get 23 year old Fox who has 5 more years on his contract. They also take a chance on Bagley to see if anything is there; otherwise, he acts as an expiring.

PG - Fox / Holiday / Neto
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Avdija / Kispert
PF - Hachimura / Bagley / Todd / Gill
C - Gafford / Harrell / Jones

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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#858
#858
twslam07 said:
Here's another take on a Fox for Simmons swap that could make some sense...



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PHI Gets: Bradley Beal, Buddy Hield, Davis Bertans, & Kyle Kuzma
PHI Gives: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, & Shake Milton
Why for PHI? The 76ers move on from disgruntled Simmons and land a 28 year guard who can be a legitimate 2nd option next to Embiid. Beal's ability to shoot, play on the perimeter, and play off the ball will be a solid complement to Embiid. They also land two of the best volume 3pt shooters in the league in Hield & Bertans to further space the floor. Kuzma gives them another SF/PF who can't (obviously) space the floor as much as Bertans but brings more defense and iso scoring as a change of pace. Curry, Beal, Hield, Green, & Bertans is top shelf spacing for Embiid and would allow him to further dominate.

PG - Beal / Curry / Springer
SG - Hield / Maxey / Joe
SF - Green / Thybulle / Korkmaz
PF - Bertans / Kuzma / Niang / Reed
C - Embiid / Drummond / Bassey

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SAC Gets: Tobias Harris, Ben Simmons, Thomas Bryant, & Shake Milton
SAC Gives: De'Aaron Fox, Buddy Hield, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
Why for SAC? With Mitchell & Haliburton already on the roster, losing Fox & Hield isn't as big of a loss as it could be. In return, they upgrade their frontcourt by adding Simmons & Harris. Simmons would have a lot of shooters to work with in Mitchell, Milton, Haliburton, Davis, Barnes, Harris, & Bryant to help maximize his skillset. Bryant's rim protection and shooting potential could be a solid fit next to Simmons long term. Milton also gives them some a solid backup PG to help out with their depth chart. Lastly, they could have an interesting death lineup to close out games in Mitchell-Haliburton-Barnes-Harris-Simmons.

PG - Mitchell / Milton
SG - Haliburton / Davis / Ramsey
SF - Harris / Barnes / Woodard
PF - Simmons / Harkless / Metu
C - Holmes / Bryant / Thompson / Len

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WAS Gets: De'Aaron Fox, Marvin Bagley, & Damian Jones
WAS Gives: Bradley Beal, Davis Bertans, Kyle Kuzma, & Thomas Bryant
Why for WAS? The Wizards clear about $30 mil in salary this season and move off of Bertans & Kuzma's salaries as they head into their rebuild. In exchange for 28 year old Beal, they get 23 year old Fox who has 5 more years on his contract. They also take a chance on Bagley to see if anything is there; otherwise, he acts as an expiring.

PG - Fox / Holiday / Neto
SG - Dinwiddie / Caldwell-Pope
SF - Avdija / Kispert
PF - Hachimura / Bagley / Todd / Gill
C - Gafford / Harrell / Jones

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Beal’s vax status probably makes him untradeable for the time being. Shake isn't really a point guard.
Also, as excited as I am by Davion and Tyrese, trading both De'Aaron and Buddy for Harris and Simmons probably makes us the worst crunch time scoring team in the league because Tyrese and Davion are essentially the only ball handlers on the team who can create points for themselves.
 
sactowndog

sactowndog

All-Star
#859
#859
Tetsujin said:
Beal’s vax status probably makes him untradeable for the time being. Shake isn't really a point guard.
Also, as excited as I am by Davion and Tyrese, trading both De'Aaron and Buddy for Harris and Simmons probably makes us the worst crunch time scoring team in the league because Tyrese and Davion are essentially the only ball handlers on the team who can create points for themselves.
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Yeah I think if you get Simmons you want to keep Buddy as he can create his own shot and he is a high percentage shooter you want to have on the floor.

the question is

gap Fox —-> Mitchell
gap Bagley or Harkless ——> Simmons.

from what I have seen in terms of what Mitchell did to Pritchard and last night is the gap from Fox to Mitchell is not that large when defense, passing and shooting is included.

meanwhile despite all his shooting woes the gap from Bagley/Harkless to Simmons is enormous when all are included. This gap is accentuated when you consider who is in our division to be guarded: Leonard, George, Lebron, etc.
 
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SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#861
#861
With Fox's added size and Mitchell ready from the get, should the Kings look at offering some form of a Tyrese/Buddy/Bagley/picks package? Fox/Mitchell/Simmons/Barnes/Holmes is defense for days. I don't know it's interesting.
 
W

Woot!

Starter
#862
#862
SacTownKid said:
With Fox's added size and Mitchell ready from the get, should the Kings look at offering some form of a Tyrese/Buddy/Bagley/picks package? Fox/Mitchell/Simmons/Barnes/Holmes is defense for days. I don't know it's interesting.
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We've gone from Buddy/Bags/pix to Buddy/Bags/pix AND Tyrese? No thanks.

Truth is that Fox (scoring), Tyrese (playmaking), and Davion (defense) each bring decidedly different strengths to the table, all of which this team needs. AND there'll be minutes for them all in most games. I'm very excited to see what they can do together.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#863
#863
SacTownKid said:
With Fox's added size and Mitchell ready from the get, should the Kings look at offering some form of a Tyrese/Buddy/Bagley/picks package? Fox/Mitchell/Simmons/Barnes/Holmes is defense for days. I don't know it's interesting.
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I'm just not trading Tyrese for anything somewhat realistically get back for him in reality. 7 more years of team control and was essentially the ROY for a good chunk of last season. Has taken on a team leadership role, gets along extremely well with the franchise player on and off the court and if the 2 preseason games are any indication; he's our best playmaker in the half-court running the offense.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#864
#864
Woot! said:
We've gone from Buddy/Bags/pix to Buddy/Bags/pix AND Tyrese? No thanks.

Truth is that Fox (scoring), Tyrese (playmaking), and Davion (defense) each bring decidedly different strengths to the table, all of which this team needs. AND there'll be minutes for them all in most games. I'm very excited to see what they can do together.
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I was saying some form of package. The picks thing would be variable I would imagine. The issue we're seeing so far is Walton. It's early but we have yet to see any commitment to playing all 3 together. It's been more of the same and if history proves out it will stay that way. Either "small" with Harkless or classic big lineups. Players splitting minutes and topping out at 24 mpg in preseason is different than when you have to start getting guys real minutes when the games count. Walton has fiddled away preseasons before but I really hope in the next 2 games he starts putting together a real rotation. 8 game preseasons are a lot different than 4. He can't afford to start off slow, it will kill whatever buzz there is right quick.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#865
#865
The_Jamal said:
I'm just not trading Tyrese for anything somewhat realistically get back for him in reality. 7 more years of team control and was essentially the ROY for a good chunk of last season. Has taken on a team leadership role, gets along extremely well with the franchise player on and off the court and if the 2 preseason games are any indication; he's our best playmaker in the half-court running the offense.
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I don't like it either but the question is would you be selling high compared to the role he's going to get with what it might do to his overall value? As of now he's basically playing the same role you'd get out of Simmons but Simmons wouldn't be fighting a horde of others to break through. It's only two games but I'm not seeing this "guard" team relative to the rotations yet. At this point they might actually be playing less than last year so far, with more mouths to feed. The last 2 games will be telling.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#866
#866
SacTownKid said:
I don't like it either but the question is would you be selling high compared to the role he's going to get with what it might do to his overall value? As of now he's basically playing the same role you'd get out of Simmons but Simmons wouldn't be fighting a horde of others to break through. It's only two games but I'm not seeing this "guard" team relative to the rotations yet. At this point they might actually be playing less than last year so far, with more mouths to feed. The last 2 games will be telling.
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I think it's pretty clear we're just trying to get some run with the new guys in lineup combos will end up running out there. Holmes basically got the game off and there's no reason Fox/Hali/Barnes aren't 33+ minutes from the jump. We'll see I guess though
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#867
#867
The_Jamal said:
I think it's pretty clear we're just trying to get some run with the new guys in lineup combos will end up running out there. Holmes basically got the game off and there's no reason Fox/Hali/Barnes aren't 33+ minutes from the jump. We'll see I guess though
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I hope so, I just don't trust the dude. lol. And instead of jumping feet first he's been going back to what you'd expect with lineups that per usual don't really reflect the kind of commitment to guard play being sold. Walton has always tended to let experience and rep lead the way so we'll see if he jumbles his lineups around again this year to the detriment of individual productivity. With Simmons I have no doubt there would be a solid starting 5 that wouldn't be bounced around.
 
KingsFanSince85

KingsFanSince85

All-Star
#868
#868
The_Jamal said:
I'm just not trading Tyrese for anything somewhat realistically get back for him in reality. 7 more years of team control and was essentially the ROY for a good chunk of last season. Has taken on a team leadership role, gets along extremely well with the franchise player on and off the court and if the 2 preseason games are any indication; he's our best playmaker in the half-court running the offense.
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At this point, in no way should the KINGS offer Swipa, Baby Magic or Off-Night. They should for all intents and purposes be untouchable for now.

Anybody else can be had. As well as appropriate draft picks.

While any combination of Buddy, Bagley, Barnes and picks may not be the most attractive offer ever — it surely isn’t anything close to a laughable offer either.

Buddy has a ton of value in terms of how effective and efficient he’s been as a shooter and scorer (on the whole) in today’s NBA. HB is a player ANY NBA team can use. He’s a good, all-around 2-way player. Bagley is still young and still possesses talent and skill not always found in someone his size.

If that package can’t land a player whose reputation around the league and current toxic situation has severely limited his value, then so be it.

The KINGS shouldn’t panic. Just sit tight and remain patient.
 
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