Trade Suggestion: Fox for Simmons + #28
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Morey is not going to get pennies on the dollar for an all star talent. I can see Ben on the Sixers this year if the right package doesn't present itself. If they are winning, that will help mend some fences.
For the Kings, trading Fox is a pretty big risk. Young, locked in long term, improves every year and his Super Nova flashes are enough to wonder if he is on the brink of being elite. It's not out of the question that he could be the better player next season. Sure we now have a "glut of guards" but I don't know if I want to trade away the better player even if it improves another position. Hali? Sure Ben is a much better player at this point but we really don't know what we have in Ty. I really would like to see what he does in his second season, his ceiling could be really high thanks to that brain of his. Character matters. Chemistry matters.
Personally, I prefer to sit tight and see what we have with our current roster. Give the keys to Fox, Haliburton and Off Night. We will start to have roster flexibility soon enough.
For the Kings, trading Fox is a pretty big risk. Young, locked in long term, improves every year and his Super Nova flashes are enough to wonder if he is on the brink of being elite. It's not out of the question that he could be the better player next season. Sure we now have a "glut of guards" but I don't know if I want to trade away the better player even if it improves another position. Hali? Sure Ben is a much better player at this point but we really don't know what we have in Ty. I really would like to see what he does in his second season, his ceiling could be really high thanks to that brain of his. Character matters. Chemistry matters.
Personally, I prefer to sit tight and see what we have with our current roster. Give the keys to Fox, Haliburton and Off Night. We will start to have roster flexibility soon enough.
I wouldn't send any of Fox, Hali, Mitchell, or Holmes. I'd prefer to keep Barnes as well given his position of need on our team and his flexibility. Just about anyone else they can mix and match to their heart's content. I wouldn't want to part with a pick, but I assume we would have to. No more than one first rounder, though. Take it or leave it.
I don't think we can say anyone is untouchable beyond that when they are players that we actually see want to be in Sac and have value we start asking Philly to sweeten the deal rather than the other way around. I think Fox, Hali and Mitchell are absolutely in that category and I'd put Barnes pretty close.
I would probably allow Holmes to be part of the deal in place of Bagley if it came to that.
I would probably allow Holmes to be part of the deal in place of Bagley if it came to that.
I meant in respect to the trade currently being discussed (for only Simmons, or perhaps with a minor player on Philly's end to make salaries work or something). Obviously, if the trade was significantly sweetened on their end that might change my opinion. But right now, I wouldn't include any of them in this trade scenario. I'm not saying they are untouchable.
Gotcha.
I think Buddy is the best player they are going to be able to get (from anyone unless Portland offers CJ) at the current state of relationship with Simmons. So from that they can probably ask for Holmes or Bagley and maybe a pick to make salaries match, or they can ask for Barnes but they'd have to throw someone in at that price.
And frankly I wouldn't budge from those unless they started giving us real talent besides Simmons. Because I think Simmons is high risk at this point.
I think Buddy is the best player they are going to be able to get (from anyone unless Portland offers CJ) at the current state of relationship with Simmons. So from that they can probably ask for Holmes or Bagley and maybe a pick to make salaries match, or they can ask for Barnes but they'd have to throw someone in at that price.
And frankly I wouldn't budge from those unless they started giving us real talent besides Simmons. Because I think Simmons is high risk at this point.
If this forum wouldn’t give up fox for harden and his baggage, no way is simmons and his baggage worth fox. Sixers can want whoever they want but you got damaged goods in Ben shriveling up in the playoffs. Now he’s publicly announced he wants out. His value keeps dropping, why would we up our offer of buddy+bagley+Picks to buddy+Barnes+Picks or even contemplating fox or haliburton? If this trade doesn’t happen because monte won’t offer more for sinking value I’m fine with it.
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I think the play is you keep waiting this out until the Sixers are even more back up against the wall. They just can't afford to waste a year of prime Embiid/Harris with them making a combined 67.5 million next year and just let Simmons waste away as an asset. Everyday they don't trade him, his value goes down and opposing teams gain leverage.
I changed my mind on including Hali. If it doesn't work out? Great, we move forward with the 3-guard core. If it does, you steal a locked up 2-way all-star that's a top 5 defensive player in the NBA coming off the worst defensive season in NBA history. Either way, pretty good.
I changed my mind on including Hali. If it doesn't work out? Great, we move forward with the 3-guard core. If it does, you steal a locked up 2-way all-star that's a top 5 defensive player in the NBA coming off the worst defensive season in NBA history. Either way, pretty good.
The thing is, the longer the Sixers wait to get rid of Simmons the worse off it is for them, especially if he follows through what he said and doesn’t practice or go to training camp. Not sure the Sixers are willing to wait until the trade deadline while the Warriors mull it over for months and months. Sixers are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Not saying he will land with us, but we can certainly offer a well rounded package, better than what most teams can do.
I'm intrigued to see what we have with those 3. I agree that the play is let them hang themselves. Especially if Paul is going to start jerking them around with Maxsy who the Sixers apparently planned on giving the lead guard spot to.
If we miss out I won't lose sleep. I still think if they need a shooter it doesn't get any better than Buddy.
If we miss out I won't lose sleep. I still think if they need a shooter it doesn't get any better than Buddy.
Also with Kings winning the summer league with impressive performance of Metu, Ramsey, Woodard, I think SAC has the most to offer in a Sixers trade without the need to include Fox or Ty.
IMO, Ramsey could blow-up in Philly if he gets into a Simmons trade. Barnes/Bagley/Ramsey can actually fill in that Philly roster nicely.
IMO, Ramsey could blow-up in Philly if he gets into a Simmons trade. Barnes/Bagley/Ramsey can actually fill in that Philly roster nicely.
Yeah it really depends on if anyone caves to offer a proven all-star/near all-star or a more proven high upside prospect like a Hali/or Ant Edwards (with the KAT link). I honestly don't think the Warriors package is all that good for a team trying to win now; they have the perfect asset class to trade for a star on a team that's trying to reset, not for a team trying to win in the next 2 years.
If not, the Kings with 2 plug and play starters that fit like a glove next to Embiid (Barnes/Buddy) and picks is pretty dang close to as good as they're going to get for win-now talent if everyone else is out on offering all-star talent/prospects.
If not, the Kings with 2 plug and play starters that fit like a glove next to Embiid (Barnes/Buddy) and picks is pretty dang close to as good as they're going to get for win-now talent if everyone else is out on offering all-star talent/prospects.
Why?
Simmons has made more than enough $$$ already to able to make good on his threat. And his agent has a lot of power. He’s already talking about getting one of his other clients out of Philly.
Does Philly really want to go down that road?
We are in an era where players and agents have more power and leverage than ever before.
I don’t doubt Ben Simmons willingness to sit out to try to win this.
I remember when nobody thought Le‘Veon Bell would sit out an entire season. And that’s a sport with no guaranteed contract and lower salaries on the whole.
Simmons has made more than enough $$$ already to able to make good on his threat. And his agent has a lot of power. He’s already talking about getting one of his other clients out of Philly.
Does Philly really want to go down that road?
We are in an era where players and agents have more power and leverage than ever before.
I don’t doubt Ben Simmons willingness to sit out to try to win this.
I remember when nobody thought Le‘Veon Bell would sit out an entire season. And that’s a sport with no guaranteed contract and lower salaries on the whole.
How does being entitled to an opinion disqualify you from being over-reactionary at the same time?
Of course you don’t believe you’re being over-reactionary. If you did, you probably wouldn’t do it.
I’m also entitled to an opinion and bailing on tickets because the franchise has the audacity to try to improve the team by obtaining an all-star caliber 2-way player is textbook over-reaction. Unless you are content with the team as is or want them to continue losing.
Of course you don’t believe you’re being over-reactionary. If you did, you probably wouldn’t do it.
I’m also entitled to an opinion and bailing on tickets because the franchise has the audacity to try to improve the team by obtaining an all-star caliber 2-way player is textbook over-reaction. Unless you are content with the team as is or want them to continue losing.
I’m aware of what his flaws are. That doesn’t change the fact that he’s been ROY, a multiple time all-star and all-NBA defender. His 16/8 career averages and ability as a finisher support that he’s a 2-way player. He’s not just a defensive specialist. He’s not Ben Wallace or Dwight Howard. Neither of those guys could handle or create for others like Simmons can.
Simmons is more like a 6-11 version of a young Jason Kidd. A stud on both ends, but not a good shooter.
As for Philly’s motivations, they’ve been outlined already. It’s nowhere as simple as you’re trying to make it. Not only that, Simmons unwillingness to return there further complicates things.
The long and short is Simmons is being made into a scapegoat for Philly’s failures when they are far from all on him. Other players have underperformed. And they haven’t exactly put the right group of players together not have they used them correctly. For example, nobody in their right mind should have Joel Embiid out on the perimeter shooting 3’s. Yet the geniuses in Philly do exactly that.
And if Simmons lack of shooting is why he’s out there, that’s on Philly for putting together an incompatible mix
Like a lot of players that finally landed in the right situation with the right team, Simmons can most certainly be part of a title team.
Simmons is more like a 6-11 version of a young Jason Kidd. A stud on both ends, but not a good shooter.
As for Philly’s motivations, they’ve been outlined already. It’s nowhere as simple as you’re trying to make it. Not only that, Simmons unwillingness to return there further complicates things.
The long and short is Simmons is being made into a scapegoat for Philly’s failures when they are far from all on him. Other players have underperformed. And they haven’t exactly put the right group of players together not have they used them correctly. For example, nobody in their right mind should have Joel Embiid out on the perimeter shooting 3’s. Yet the geniuses in Philly do exactly that.
And if Simmons lack of shooting is why he’s out there, that’s on Philly for putting together an incompatible mix
Like a lot of players that finally landed in the right situation with the right team, Simmons can most certainly be part of a title team.
