The State of the Kings

[NewArena]

Is this real? You have to be F'ing kidding me. We're doomed folks. Doomed. Somebody could hand this guy a book titled, "All the Kings problems", with a picture of Luke Walton on every page and his review would be, "The pictures we're really nice. I like the color blue".

In other news Luke just handpicked his new lead assistant.

His comments disgust me each time. It's like he doesn't care and the bubble is made of cotton candy

YUCK

 

[SacTownKid]

Really? Willie Caulie Stein and George Papagiannis

Yeah, but look at the plethora of talent he passed on right? Right? Nah. If Winslow ever gets right health wise I still like him but that factors into the grade. You can always redraft later and find one diamond but overall usage again might play as much of a factor as anything. They still probably suck but they had basically no chance of succeeding just like the Kings guard draft his last go around has basically none unless something really drastic goes down. And then the real pain begins. haha.

 

[SacTownKid]

His comments disgust me each time. It's like he doesn't care and the bubble is made of cotton candy

YUCK

He'll either come out looking like a genius or he'll end up on some top 10 lists. Like, not good kind of top 10 lists. I really hope he knows what he's doing. But his comments don't give us much insight as to how much he cares.

 

[Livinthedream]

First thing I thought was, why aren’t the KINGS able to to the same in reverse?

Kinda speaks to the differences in coaching and scouting, don’t ya think?

Exactly. If the Kings players were surprised, then that means they haven't been doing the same thing. Other coaches and teams are in playoff mode. Don't know what Luke and his staff thought this was going to be. This is not a serious organization.

 

[Hoovtrain]

First thing I thought was, why aren’t the KINGS able to to the same in reverse?

Kinda speaks to the differences in coaching and scouting, don’t ya think?

lol it’s definitely not a good look

 

[chief bromden]

First thing I thought was, why aren’t the KINGS able to to the same in reverse?

Kinda speaks to the differences in coaching and scouting, don’t ya think?

I'm going to repost this link to an article written about Luke Walton's systems when he was at the end of his Laker tenure in Feb 2019 (feels like he has been Kings coach for a long time now, but he coached the Lakers only 15 months ago!)

Link

Long article, but my main takeway is that his offensive sets featured only a single action 71% of the time the last year with the Lakers. That is one pin down screen, or one staggered screen, etc., and then it's freelance. I think this is where Luke has talked about how he wants his players to create after reading the situation, and ultimately why he has pushed Buddy into a playmaker type position, which isn't his strong suit.

I think this is part of the reason why it's easy for teams to scout the Kings and call their actions, especially when the staffs have all this time in the bubble to study for the 8 game schedule and are.able.to yell them out easier in a crowdless environment

 

[Peja]

We have to rebuild again. Everyone but Fox should be on the table. Vlade and Luke have to be fired this off-season (doubt they will, though).

Fox should be the first on the table considering that he has the biggest value and that way we can actually acquire a PG that will drive this franchise forward instead of pumping his own numbers.

Vlade out, Walton out, Bogdan out

 

[SacTownKid]

I'm going to repost this link to an article written about Luke Walton's systems when he was at the end of his Laker tenure in Feb 2019 (feels like he has been Kings coach for a long time now, but he coached the Lakers only 15 months ago!)

Link

Long article, but my main takeway is that his offensive sets featured only a single action 71% of the time the last year with the Lakers. That is one pin down screen, or one staggered screen, etc., and then it's freelance. I think this is where Luke has talked about how he wants his players to create after reading the situation, and ultimately why he has pushed Buddy into a playmaker type position, which isn't his strong suit.

I think this is part of the reason why it's easy for teams to scout the Kings and call their actions, especially when the staffs have all this time in the bubble to study for the 8 game schedule and are.able.to yell them out easier in a crowdless environment

IIRC Walton did run some horn sets with the Lakers and he ditched it real quick here with Sac so that's good.

 

[ppine]

Sacramento is a tiny NBA market making trades for really good players really difficult. When you add in terrible drafts over and over the team is doomed. Until the Kings dedicate themselves to playing team defense they are never going to be a .500 team. I would like to see players like Bogdanovic gone. Hield has some good trade value. Fox is a great player. Barnes is pretty consistent. The Kings have a whole roster full of journeyman level players. Basketball is a game where two more really good players in the starting line up can change everything.

The Kings have been rebuilding ever since I started watching them seriously maybe 15-20 years ago. Walton is enigmatic to me. He knows the game, but seems so low key in his coaching style. In order to compete, it is hard to really say what is missing, but I like the idea of a more fiery coach. Players like Holmes, Bazemore and Len helped the Kings play harder and with more physicality. I would like to see that trend continue.

 

[Albatros]

Walton spent the whole game in the refs ear tonight.

 

[bajaden]

https://twitter.com/statuses/1290385392081031169

That tweet tells me a lot.

The question I would have is, are we scouting the crap out of them. So far, the other teams look better prepared than we do. Just curious..

 

[tyguy]

Fox isn’t that good. He’s got the same obpm in year 3 that Lillard had in year 1. He could be like Kemba Walker and bloom late, but that’s not a superstar.

He’s got to become a very good three point shooter for him to be anything close to a superstar that im seeing people label him as.

Everybody is on the table for me. Get as many picks as possible and hire someone competent to make those selections.

 

[Tetsujin]

Fox isn’t that good. He’s got the same obpm in year 3 that Lillard has in year 1. He could be like Kemba Walker and bloom late, but that’s not a superstar.

Hew got to become a very good three point shooter for his to be anything close to a superstar that in seeing people label him as.

Everybody is on the table for me. Get as many picks as possible and hire someone competent to make those selections.

Dame was the same age as a rookie as De’Aaron is now so I’m not sure what you’re saying is winding up looking as bad as you’re intending it to. Also of all the “advanced metrics” plus/minus scores are the least useful as Bogi’s relatively nice +/- in spite of his horrible night would show.

 

[VF21]

Reality check: The 2019-2020 season is not going to result in a lot of roster or head office changes for the simple fact all the franchises are hemorrhaging money right now. Every injury that occurs in this bubble makes it even more likely a lot of teams will stand pat with minor adjustments (outside of the free agent kerfuffle). The Kings were doing good when the plug was pulled and I firmly believe that's what the ownership is going to be thinking about when the "season" is over. Everything changed when COVID-19 put a stop to normal and it's gonna take a while before anything remotely resembles what we knew before.

It's not just the state of the Kings. It's the state of almost all professional sports right now.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The question I would have is, are we scouting the crap out of them. So far, the other teams look better prepared than we do. Just curious..

Exactamundo.

 

[dude12]

Sacramento is a tiny NBA market making trades for really good players really difficult. When you add in terrible drafts over and over the team is doomed. Until the Kings dedicate themselves to playing team defense they are never going to be a .500 team. I would like to see players like Bogdanovic gone. Hield has some good trade value. Fox is a great player. Barnes is pretty consistent. The Kings have a whole roster full of journeyman level players. Basketball is a game where two more really good players in the starting line up can change everything.

The Kings have been rebuilding ever since I started watching them seriously maybe 15-20 years ago. Walton is enigmatic to me. He knows the game, but seems so low key in his coaching style. In order to compete, it is hard to really say what is missing, but I like the idea of a more fiery coach. Players like Holmes, Bazemore and Len helped the Kings play harder and with more physicality. I wold like to see that trend continue.

Damn, we had Joerger here but people thought he was a big meanie. Whether you, And not meaning you personally, dislike his sets, philosophy, offense, personality, rotations, etc, the guy had us going in the right direction. He had to change gears from trying to win with Cousins, to building/developing an insanely young squad, ran more increasing pace and then produced our best year record wise in a long time. If the brass would have just left him alone, I can’t help but think it would have been better.

 

[dude12]

Shouldn’t we be fully immersed in the draft and our rookie picks anyway right now? This bubble has thrown Kings fans off their routine!

 

[Tetsujin]

Shouldn’t we be fully immersed in the draft and our rookie picks anyway right now? This bubble has thrown Kings fans off their routine!

In all fairness, if there ever was a draft class to just largely ignore it would be this one. With no March Madness to pump up a guy's hype, the entire class is largely just blah.

 

[tyguy]

Dame was the same age as a rookie as De’Aaron is now so I’m not sure what you’re saying is winding up looking as bad as you’re intending it to. Also of all the “advanced metrics” plus/minus scores are the least useful as Bogi’s relatively nice +/- in spite of his horrible night would show.

Fox’s obpm is the same as it was last year indicating a lack of improvement. The vast majority of guards see improvements year to year and most make a big leap year 3.

If Fox was going to be a superstar, we would know by now.

 

[dude12]

In all fairness, if there ever was a draft class to just largely ignore it would be this one. With no March Madness to pump up a guy's hype, the entire class is largely just blah.

That hasn’t held us back from over-hyping a draft pick. Let’s gooooo.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Dame was the same age as a rookie as De’Aaron is now so I’m not sure what you’re saying is winding up looking as bad as you’re intending it to. Also of all the “advanced metrics” plus/minus scores are the least useful as Bogi’s relatively nice +/- in spite of his horrible night would show.

I cannot express my disdain enough for the advanced metrics nonsense, especially the one you just referenced

“stats are for losers”
-Justin “Cowboy” Smith

 

[Joshoua]

Fox isn’t that good. He’s got the same obpm in year 3 that Lillard had in year 1. He could be like Kemba Walker and bloom late, but that’s not a superstar.

He’s got to become a very good three point shooter for him to be anything close to a superstar that im seeing people label him as.

Everybody is on the table for me. Get as many picks as possible and hire someone competent to make those selections.

Im sure 90% of gems would take Morant over him without thinking twice, 100% take Trae and that’s now debatable

 

[SacTownKid]

I cannot express my disdain enough for the advanced metrics nonsense, especially the one you just referenced

“stats are for losers”
-Justin “Cowboy” Smith

I'm not a fan of individual and especially 2 man metrics in a vacuum but they can be intriguing. Still depends entirely on usage. 5 man I do like. If not under too tight a microscope and with enough minutes they at least show you what combo is getting the job done and since this is a team game and not a 1 or 2 man game it applies to reality.

 

[Tetsujin]

I'm not a fan of individual and especially 2 man metrics in a vacuum but they can be intriguing. Still depends entirely on usage. 5 man I do like. If not under too tight a microscope and with enough minutes they at least show you what combo is getting the job done and since this is a team game and not a 1 or 2 man game it applies to reality.

Yeah, in general I think advanced metrics can be really really useful but plus-minus in particular is something entirely predicated on when you were on or off the court and who you were on the court with and also whether or not the other team was hot or cold or not.

 

[Groovygreg]

As presently composed, this Kings team is going nowhere. Prospects of a quick turnaround via some more minor personnel moves look rather grim. Some significant re-tooling will be needed to put a contender on the court.

 

[KainLear]

It's quite clear. We have a rookie owner, a rookie GM, and a young head coach with only a few years of coaching under his belt. How many first-timer we have seen in our lifetime that immediately achieve greatness?

It is inevitable that we are going to stay horrible while these new guys learn. We are just going through the years as a training ground for them.

It's just an illusion that accidentally gave us hope because we have some talented guys in the roster. Even though I'm a Kings fan first, as a basketball fan, I'm now rooting for Giles to move on to another team since he has shown flashes, Fox as well should move on when his contract expires.

We got a new coat of paint that are named Hield, Bogdanovic, or Bjelica, but in essence, they are no different players from John Salmons, Kevin Martins, or Mikki Moore.

 

[tastyburger]

It's quite clear. We have a rookie owner, a rookie GM, and a young head coach with only a few years of coaching under his belt. How many first-timer we have seen in our lifetime that immediately achieve greatness?

It is inevitable that we are going to stay horrible while these new guys learn. We are just going through the years as a training ground for them.

It's just an illusion that accidentally gave us hope because we have some talented guys in the roster. Even though I'm a Kings fan first, as a basketball fan, I'm now rooting for Giles to move on to another team since he has shown flashes, Fox as well should move on when his contract expires.

We got a new coat of paint that are named Hield, Bogdanovic, or Bjelica, but in essence, they are no different players from John Salmons, Kevin Martins, or Mikki Moore.

How dare you make defamatory comments about Mikki "and one" Moore!

 

[VF21]

Speaking of Mikki Moore, this picture was taken on Dec. 31, 2007 by Kingsgirl4 in Sacramento:



And yes, it was Mikki driving

 

[Hoovtrain]

I'm not a fan of individual and especially 2 man metrics in a vacuum but they can be intriguing. Still depends entirely on usage. 5 man I do like. If not under too tight a microscope and with enough minutes they at least show you what combo is getting the job done and since this is a team game and not a 1 or 2 man game it applies to reality.

agree, I do think they can have value at times. At the same time I also think they get overused and are pointed to as this definitive benchmark

 

[kb02]

From recent games:

1. Outside of Bazemore and Fox (when he wants to), no perimeter defense. Made worse by not having a center, who can actually block/deter/distort shots in the paint.

2. No ball movement. Two ways to move the ball--dribble or pass. This team moves the ball by dribbling. It's rather kinda ugly.

3. The difference between the Kings and other teams is small. But this team simply does not do the little things that are necessary to win.

Ultimately, as Kanye West would say: there are too many Urkels on the team, that's why the Kings Wins-low.