Still defending Vlade? (split from game thread)

[VF21]

Just FYI, I found a list of all the #2 picks:

Number 2

Year Player School/Country – Team

2019 Ja Morant, Murray State – Memphis Grizzlies
2018 Marvin Bagley, Duke – Sacramento Kings
2017 Lonzo Ball, UCLA – Los Angeles Lakers
2016 Brandon Ingram, Duke – Los Angeles Lakers
2015 D’Angelo Russell, Ohio State – Los Angeles Lakers
2014 Jabari Parker, Duke – Milwaukee Bucks
2013 Victor Oladipo, Indiana – Orlando Magic
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Kentucky – Charlotte Bobcats
2011 Derrick Williams, Arizona – Minnesota Timberwolves
2010 Evan Turner, Ohio State – Philadelphia 76ers

2000’s

2009 Hasheem Thabeet, Connecticut – Memphis Grizzlies
2008 Michael Beasley, Kansas State – Miami HEAT
2007 Kevin Durant, Texas – Seattle Supersonics
2006 LaMarcus Aldridge, Texas – Chicago Bulls (Draft rights traded to Portland Trail Blazers)
2005 Marvin Williams, North Carolina – Atlanta Hawks
2004 Emeka Okafor, Connecticut – Charlotte Bobcats
2003 Darko Milicic, Serbia & Montenegro – Detroit Pistons
2002 Jay Williams, Duke – Chicago Bulls
2001 Tyson Chandler, Dominguez HS (Calif.) – L.A. Clippers (Draft rights traded to Chicago Bulls)
2000 Stromile Swift, LSU – Vancouver Grizzlies

1990’s

1999 Steve Francis, Maryland – Vancouver Grizzlies
1998 Mike Bibby, Arizona – Vancouver Grizzlies
1997 Keith Van Horn, Utah – Philadelphia 76ers (Draft rights traded to New Jersey Nets)
1996 Marcus Camby, Massachusetts – Toronto Raptors
1995 Antonio McDyess, Alabama – L.A. Clippers (Draft rights traded to Denver Nuggets)
1994 Jason Kidd, California – Dallas Mavericks
1993 Shawn Bradley, Brigham Young – Philadelphia 76ers
1992 Alonzo Mourning, Georgetown – Charlotte Hornets
1991 Kenny Anderson, Georgia Tech – New Jersey Nets
1990 Gary Payton, Oregon State – Seattle Supersonics

1980’s

1989 Danny Ferry, Duke – L.A. Clippers
1988 Rik Smits, Marist – Indiana Pacers
1987 Armon Gilliam, UNLV – Phoenix Suns
1986 Len Bias, Maryland – Boston Celtics
1985 Wayman Tisdale, Oklahoma – Indiana Pacers
1984 Sam Bowie, Kentucky – Portland Trail Blazers
1983 Steve Stipanovich, Missouri – Indiana Pacers
1982 Terry Cummings, DePaul – San Diego Clippers
1981 Isiah Thomas, Indiana – Detroit Pistons
1980 Darrell Griffith, Louisville – Utah Jazz

1970’s

1979 David Greenwood, UCLA – Chicago Bulls
1978 Phil Ford, North Carolina – Kansas City Kings
1977 Otis Birdsong, Houston – Kansas City
1976 Scott May, Indiana – Chicago Bulls
1975 David Meyers, UCLA – L.A. Lakers
1974 Marvin Barnes, Providence – Philadelphia 76ers
1973 Jim Brewer, Minnesota – Cleveland Cavaliers
1972 Bob McAdoo, North Carolina – Buffalo Braves
1971 Sidney Wicks, UCLA – Portland Trail Blazers
1970 Rudy Tomjanovich, Michigan – San Diego Rockets

1960’s

1969 Neal Walk, Florida – Phoenix Suns
1968 Wes Unseld, Louisville – Baltimore Bullets
1967 Earl Monroe, Winston-Salem – Baltimore Bullets
1966 Dave Bing, Syracuse – Detroit Pistons
1965 Rick Barry, Miami – San Francisco Warriors
1964 Joe Caldwell, Arizona State – Detroit Pistons
1963 Rod Thorn, West Virginia – Baltimore Bullets
1962 Paul Hogue, Cincinnati – New York Knicks
1961 Tom Stith, St. Bonaventure – New York Knicks
1960 Jerry West, West Virginia – Minneapolis Lakers

1950’s

1959 Bailey Howell, Mississippi State – Detroit Pistons
1958 Archie Dees, Indiana – Cincinnati
1957 Charles Tyra, Louisville – Detroit Pistons
1956 Bill Russell, University of San Francisco – St Louis Hawks
1955 Maurice Stokes, Saint Francis University – Rochester Royals
1954 Bob Pettit, Louisiana State University – Milwaukee Hawks
1953 Bob Houbregs, University of Washington- Milwaukee Hawks
1952 Jim Baechtold, Eastern Kentucky University – Baltimore Bullets
1951 Mel Hutchins, Brigham Young University – Tri-Cities Blackhawks
1950 Don Rehfeldt, University of Wisconsin – Baltimore Bullets

 

[sactowndog]

No, Mitchell at 5.

I get your point. I’m saying if Josh Jackson had been available they well could have gone Jackson at 5 and Mitchell at 10

 

[Artur91]

So you're saying if a player drafted at the #2 pans out better in the long run than someone who looked better at first but then faded away, it's still a bad pick because he wasn't better on draft day? Do you realize how little sense that makes? (I'm taking your statement in general terms, not using the specific examples of Bagley and Doncic.

Draft picks are crap shoots. Greg Oden is a perfect example. Do you think Portland would still pick him knowing then what they know now?

u just said it urself, "if they knew what kind of player KD and Oden will turn out, they wont" they had pick KD ahead of Oden in a million years. but can they see the future? they not, so they can only make a choice based in WHAT THEY KNOW BACK AT DRAFT DAY which is Oden was a better prospect than KD, so that day they made the right choice, they did what they had to do.

so to sum it:

sometimes the guy people tell u he is the best do end being the best, and some times he bust. that's luck

but what makes no sense is when people tell u some guy is the best prospect and u chose someone else( kings 2018) u see the difference?

 

[Livinthedream]

Do people think that an NBA exec is deciding who the top prospect is by reading draftexpress or bleacherreport? Because I always thought that the draft experts are getting their info from NBA scouts and agents. Therefore, if a draft guru wants to keep his credibility, the top prospect on his list is decided by the teams most likely to pick near the top of the draft.

The top prospect is whomever the top (bottom?) teams want to pick.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Ironically, the thing that is actually going to get Vlade fired is Buddy’s contract...because Buddy should be gone at the deadline except he’s impossible to trade as a poison pill extension.

 

[Joshoua]

Ironically, the thing that is actually going to get Vlade fired is Buddy’s contract...because Buddy should be gone at the deadline except he’s impossible to trade as a poison pill extension.

His intractable is tradeable

 

[VF21]

Ironically, the thing that is actually going to get Vlade fired is Buddy’s contract...because Buddy should be gone at the deadline except he’s impossible to trade as a poison pill extension.

Keep in mind it was widely rumored that Vivek was the one who was so sold on Buddy. If that's the case, Buddy's contract is not likely to be the final straw.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Keep in mind it was widely rumored that Vivek was the one who was so sold on Buddy. If that's the case, Buddy's contract is not likely to be the final straw.

Exactly. That’s why it’s so ironic. All the other decisions that fans disagree, and the one that will torpedo this season and (maybe) get him fired is signing Vivek’s favorite guy.

 

[VF21]

Exactly. That’s why it’s so ironic. All the other decisions that fans disagree, and the one that will torpedo this season and (maybe) get him fired is signing Vivek’s favorite guy.

Vivek: Hey Vlade? Go ahead and give Buddy that extension. You know how much I like him.

Also Vivek: Hey Vlade? You're fired for giving Buddy that extension.

Yeah, I don't think so...

 

[Sactown ExPat]

Vivek: Hey Vlade? Go ahead and give Buddy that extension. You know how much I like him.

Also Vivek: Hey Vlade? You're fired for giving Buddy that extension.

Yeah, I don't think so...

No, it’s the knock in effect. Buddy has proven to be a 6th man, and something of a locker room concern. A Buddy who was heading into RFA would be a nice trade piece right about now. Instead, Buddy is nearly impossible to trade until the offseason, and the current locker room issues will continue to fester. If it gets bad enough, it could prove costly to Vlade.

 

[VF21]

No, it’s the knock in effect. Buddy has proven to be a 6th man, and something of a locker room concern. A Buddy who was heading into RFA would be a nice trade piece right about now. Instead, Buddy is nearly impossible to trade until the offseason, and the current locker room issues will continue to fester. If it gets bad enough, it could prove costly to Vlade.

You could be right, but I honestly think you've made a few too many assumptions in there. I believe good things will happen. I also believe in rainbows and unicorns.

 

[fansinceday1]

Sounds like Carmichael Dave “May be” officially on the Fire vlade bandwagon.
Thank god cause his voice can only help.

 

[kb02]

Sounds like Carmichael Dave is officially on the Fire vlade bandwagon.

What did he say? Going to listen to his show now.

 

[fansinceday1]

Talking about the trade deadline and going over the failure of this year and how much we are paying the people we brought in and we shouldn't allow that kind of failure to maybe have the ability to package in our core as trade bait.

 

[dude12]

Sounds like Carmichael Dave is officially on the Fire vlade bandwagon.
Thank god cause his voice can only help.

Ok, I listened to the same part of the radio show and no where did he say Vlade or FO has to go. He said that the owner may want to do nothing as far as trades as there could be somebody different in place next years. Don’t mess with the core, don’t mess with the draft picks. That is a far cry from “Dave wants Vlade fired”.

 

[kb02]

Talking about the trade deadline and going over the failure of this year and how much we are paying the people we brought in and we shouldn't allow that kind of failure to maybe have the ability to package in our core as trade bait.

Thanks. The one thing that I am certain of is that Vlade won't be doing win later moves. Since he's been the GM, he has always shown a YOLO attitude--it's served him well in his trail blazing career and business dealings, he's not going to stray from it now.

At some point, a better question is do you trust Vlade to put the longer term interests of the Kings ahead of his own inclinations to win now. And if it's the latter, it may be reasonable to replace him before he's able to move on his inclinations--and thus digging a deeper hole for the Kings.

 

[kb02]

Ok, I listened to the same part of the radio show and no where did he say Vlade or FO has to go. He said that the owner may want to do nothing as far as trades as there could be somebody different in place next years. Don’t mess with the core, don’t mess with the draft picks. That is a far cry from “Dave wants Vlade fired”.

This lines up with my most recent post above.

 

[dude12]

This lines up with my most recent post above.

And it’s very fair at this point. I’m not mad about the signings or extensions. I’m mad about the Joerger firing. Had is at 39 wins last year. That move doesn’t look good right now.

 

[fansinceday1]

Ok, I listened to the same part of the radio show and no where did he say Vlade or FO has to go. He said that the owner may want to do nothing as far as trades as there could be somebody different in place next years. Don’t mess with the core, don’t mess with the draft picks. That is a far cry from “Dave wants Vlade fired”.

Didn’t say he wants vlade fired. But he is lining up why he is not a good gm. You don’t list off reasons why he’s not very good if you like the guy and love that he just signed a 4 year extension. I’ll admit he may not be fully on board yet but he’s definitely ready. You are certainly not gonna hear grant listing off stats on vlade being the 13th longest tenured GM and being the worst out of all of them.

 

[Chupacabra]

And it’s very fair at this point. I’m not mad about the signings or extensions. I’m mad about the Joerger firing. Had is at 39 wins last year. That move doesn’t look good right now.

That is, of course, if we ignore all of the injuries.

 

[fansinceday1]

Knowing the kings, I’d say the odds are higher that vlade serves out his contract extension than gets fired. Which I find extremely amusing......

 

[sergmatt]

That is, of course, if we ignore all of the injuries.

Do other teams not have injuries too?

Have the Kings not lost most of the games in which Fox plays?

Are the Kings not a statistically worse team when Bagley is on the floor?

 

[Kings_of_California]

If we somehow end up trading -away- an asset for Kevin Love, will everyone here finally succumb to the fact that Vlade is a poor GM?

 

[VF21]

Okay, I added a poll... To be honest, I wasn't sure what options to have so I went with what I thought were the most common feelings.

 

[mac]

No, it’s the knock in effect. Buddy has proven to be a 6th man, and something of a locker room concern. A Buddy who was heading into RFA would be a nice trade piece right about now. Instead, Buddy is nearly impossible to trade until the offseason, and the current locker room issues will continue to fester. If it gets bad enough, it could prove costly to Vlade.

Oh good lord, first he's dumb, now he's a locker room concern. What next? Maybe he needs to do some charity work to make some fans happy since that apparently worked in the past.

 

[Livinthedream]

Oh good lord, first he's dumb, now he's a locker room concern. What next? Maybe he needs to do some charity work to make some fans happy since that apparently worked in the past.

Nope. Won't work. He's the designated scapegoat.

 

[sergmatt]

Since there is a poll now....

I'm in the Fire Vlade group but he should be given the rest of the season. For one you don't generally fire GMs in the middle of the season and he should be given the chance to see if this season turns around.

If the Kings end up winning only low to mid 30s (or worse) then he has to go. After last season showing some hope, all his failed draft picks, etc. At some point you have to show real progress (and not regress).

If by some miracle they win say 37-40 games maybe you keep him around.

With 44 games left they'd have to go 24-22 to reach 37 wins. If this team can't win 52% of their remaining games going forward then he needs to be gone. I think even the most fervent Vlade supporters would have to admit that barely above .500 ball is not that much to ask for the rest of the season.

 

[Iced Espresso]

The voting so far is early, but surprising to me. Thought there would be more fire Vlade votes.

 

[VF21]

Since there is a poll now....

I'm in the Fire Vlade group but he should be given the rest of the season. For one you don't generally fire GMs in the middle of the season and he should be given the chance to see if this season turns around.

If the Kings end up winning only low to mid 30s (or worse) then he has to go. After last season showing some hope, all his failed draft picks, etc. At some point you have to show real progress (and not regress).

If by some miracle they win say 37-40 games maybe you keep him around.

With 44 games left they'd have to go 24-22 to reach 37 wins. If this team can't win 52% of their remaining games going forward then he needs to be gone. I think even the most fervent Vlade supporters would have to admit that barely above .500 ball is not that much to ask for the rest of the season.

Not so fast. Asking for "barely above .500 ball" could be way too much to ask if we keep having to play without key players. Nice try though.

 

[sergmatt]

Not so fast. Asking for "barely above .500 ball" could be way too much to ask if we keep having to play without key players. Nice try though.

For you yeah, but you're easier to please (or at least more forgiving) than some of us.

Real question is how Vivek feels.