Still defending Vlade? (split from game thread)

Is it time to fire Vlade?


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Now that Vlade has used significant cap space for Barnes, Buddy, and Dedmond, he doesn't think he can retain Bogdon and rumors are seeing if he can get assets for him. This is such a perfect example of how horrible he is at strategy and decision making. QO Giles, don't sign Dedmond, don't overpay Barnes and Buddy, and you have the ability to keep Bogdon. I just can't anymore.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Now that Vlade has used significant cap space for Barnes, Buddy, and Dedmond, he doesn't think he can retain Bogdon and rumors are seeing if he can get assets for him. This is such a perfect example of how horrible he is at strategy and decision making. QO Giles, don't sign Dedmond, don't overpay Barnes and Buddy, and you have the ability to keep Bogdon. I just can't anymore.
Rumors are like ... well, you know the old saying. One good thing about the current regime is that it's not full of leaks. Most of those rumors turn out to be based on agent comments, wishful thinking, etc.
 
Rumors are like ... well, you know the old saying. One good thing about the current regime is that it's not full of leaks. Most of those rumors turn out to be based on agent comments, wishful thinking, etc.
You're right. Does that mean LA called up Vlade and asked about Kuzma for Bogi? Or it might mean Vlade shopping Bogi for Kuzma + assets. I wouldn't doubt they've talked though.

Time will tell, but we also know Vlade has straight up lied about Cousins being dealt then immediately dealing them, and we know he makes some very head-scratching deals, so overall I don't think there's enough credit in the bank to give him the benefit of the doubt.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
You're right. Does that mean LA called up Vlade and asked about Kuzma for Bogi? Or it might mean Vlade shopping Bogi for Kuzma + assets. I wouldn't doubt they've talked though.

Time will tell, but we also know Vlade has straight up lied about Cousins being dealt then immediately dealing them, and we know he makes some very head-scratching deals, so overall I don't think there's enough credit in the bank to give him the benefit of the doubt.
There's this erroneous assumption out there that a GM has to truthfully answer any question given to him. Speaking in general terms and not just about DMC, there can be a lot of reasons why one might not want to spill the beans to a reporter about an upcoming personnel decision. I don't think Vlade is ponderig a Kuzma-Bogs trade for the simple reason I personally think it's an idiotic trade to even think about. But, as others have said, I have more faith i Vlade than a lot around here. I just don't see him kicking Bogs out for Kuzma.
 
There's this erroneous assumption out there that a GM has to truthfully answer any question given to him. Speaking in general terms and not just about DMC, there can be a lot of reasons why one might not want to spill the beans to a reporter about an upcoming personnel decision. I don't think Vlade is ponderig a Kuzma-Bogs trade for the simple reason I personally think it's an idiotic trade to even think about. But, as others have said, I have more faith i Vlade than a lot around here. I just don't see him kicking Bogs out for Kuzma.
Refusing to spill the beans is not the same thing as outright lying. GP was notoriously tight lipped to the point where you could know where some truth might be simply by his refusal to even address certain reports, rumors, or topics. But to my memory, he never threw out an outright lie to keep from telling the truth. He simply would tiptoe around topics or outright say "We won't discuss that".

Vlade straight up lied about Cousins. He could have said "We're not discussion that right now", but didn't. He doesn't have an obligation to tell all to reporters, but that's not the same thing as being dishonest.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Refusing to spill the beans is not the same thing as outright lying. GP was notoriously tight lipped to the point where you could know where some truth might be simply by his refusal to even address certain reports, rumors, or topics. But to my memory, he never threw out an outright lie to keep from telling the truth. He simply would tiptoe around topics or outright say "We won't discuss that".

Vlade straight up lied about Cousins. He could have said "We're not discussion that right now", but didn't. He doesn't have an obligation to tell all to reporters, but that's not the same thing as being dishonest.
So Petrie spilled the beans by refusing to discuss certain topics?

Come on. We both know we'll never convince the other to see things our way. All I'm saying here is that some people seem to think if they ask the right question, the GM/coach/etc. has to answer truthfully.

That's like thinking undercover cops have to identify themselves as such if they're asked point-blank if they're cops. ;)
 
This upcoming trade deadline should be Vlade's last one to prove he has the chops to cut it as a GM in the NBA.

The Kings are reeling and it doesn't look like the team is going anywhere, just spinning our wheels.

Is Vlade going to move some veterans that aren't long term cornerstones or is he going to hang on to these guys in hopes that we make some magical run and make it to the playoffs?

If the Kings continue to reel, Vlade needs to try and move some of our vets for some cap relief or future assets, (i.e. young player or draft picks). There are many vets on the Kings that could help a team making a run for the playoffs, i.e. Bjeli, Ariza, Dedmon, CoJo, Barnes, Bogdan.

He needs to make some moves that is going to help this team in the future and stop looking to scrape together another 30 win season.

I think the time is near to start looking towards next year and get some pieces moving forward instead of watching other teams make positive movements. Trade some vets and get some draft picks or young players. This will also open up some more PT for players like Giles, JJ, Gabriel and even Guy. But, he better not trade any of our future 1st round picks, unless we are getting a young superstar back, i.e. KAT.

If the Kings continue to sit on their vets and not make any moves to get some young players or picks, the Kings need to move off Vlade and get someone that can wheel and deal and can properly evaluate and pick draft prospects.
 
We need a healthy team before we start trading everyone away. We don’t even know how good we can be
A GM needs to be able to make their decisions on who is a long term cornerstone and who is not. Teams always have injuries and to waste a whole season before you make any decisions is another lost opportunity to get better.

Most of the players have been playing the whole year and we are still 11 games below 0.500. Obviously, injuries or not, this is NOT a deep playoff contending team. We need to make moves for the future now, start building for the future, instead of using the injury excuse to stay status quo.

As a GM, you need to recognize which player are your core (and you keep them) and the rest should be movable, to improve this team. You can't tell me we are one healthy Bagley away from being a solid upper echelon playoff team. This team needs to move vets that are not long term answers and get some assets for them, while we can.
 
A GM needs to be able to make their decisions on who is a long term cornerstone and who is not. Teams always have injuries and to waste a whole season before you make any decisions is another lost opportunity to get better.

Most of the players have been playing the whole year and we are still 11 games below 0.500. Obviously, injuries or not, this is NOT a deep playoff contending team. We need to make moves for the future now, start building for the future, instead of using the injury excuse to stay status quo.

As a GM, you need to recognize which player are your core (and you keep them) and the rest should be movable, to improve this team. You can't tell me we are one healthy Bagley away from being a solid upper echelon playoff team. This team needs to move vets that are not long term answers and get some assets for them, while we can.
Ok. If Vlade decided Fox, Bagley and Hield is the core and 2 of those guys have been hurt, then do injuries matter?

We don't have a vet that we can move that can bring in talent that will move the needle.
 
Ok. If Vlade decided Fox, Bagley and Hield is the core and 2 of those guys have been hurt, then do injuries matter?

We don't have a vet that we can move that can bring in talent that will move the needle.
I would agree that the core would be Fox, Bagley, and Hield. I would keep them, for the most part, unless a young superstar is offered.

I would disagree that none of our vets can get us a good player in return. For example, Bogdan could possibly get us Kuzma, Dedmon could get us a draft pick or a young player.

The point is to not sit on these non-core veterans in hope that one healthy player (i.e. Bagley) all of the sudden will turn our franchise around, it's not. And the team as currently constructed, even if completely healthy, would probably be fighting for the 8th playoff spot still.
That, a good GM should recognize and make moves to open up future salary cap space or bring in some young assets.

All of the Vets that Vlade signed this off season, except for Holmes, were win now type vets. They are not vets you build around, but vets you bring in to put you over the top and into solid playoff contention. We are not there and it is time that Vlade recognizes that, before the trade deadline passes.
 
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I would agree that the core would be Fox, Bagley, and Hield. I would keep them, for the most part, unless a young superstar is offered.

I would disagree that none of our vets can get us a good player in return. For example, Bogdan could possibly get us Kuzma, Dedmon could get us a draft pick or a young player.

The point is to not sit on these non-core veterans in hope that one healthy player (i.e. Bagley) all of the sudden will turn our franchise around, it's not. And the team as currently constructed, even if completely healthy, would probably be fighting for the 8th playoff spot still.
That, a good GM should recognize and make moves to open up future salary cap space or bring in some young assets.

All of the Vets that Vlade signed this off season, except for Holmes, were win now type vets. They are not vets you build around, but vets you bring in to put you over the top and into solid playoff contention. We are not there and it is time that Vlade recognizes that, before the trade deadline passes.
I do agree with this. Holmes wasn't even intended to be an integral piece. I do believe Vlade recognizes we're not there now, as of about 5 games into the season this year. The fault is he didn't recognize it last year before the trade deadline. All that can be done now is keep drafting and mixing and matching veterans to fill the gaps.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Refusing to spill the beans is not the same thing as outright lying. GP was notoriously tight lipped to the point where you could know where some truth might be simply by his refusal to even address certain reports, rumors, or topics. But to my memory, he never threw out an outright lie to keep from telling the truth. He simply would tiptoe around topics or outright say "We won't discuss that".

Vlade straight up lied about Cousins. He could have said "We're not discussion that right now", but didn't. He doesn't have an obligation to tell all to reporters, but that's not the same thing as being dishonest.
I try not to get into these kind of discussions anymore because you have your mind made up and see what you want to see. That's not to say I totally disagree with you, but the fact is, we don't know what is, or was, in Vlade's mind. We have some people mocking Vlade for apparently asking too much for Dedmon (a first rd pick), and then people like you, who want to imply that Vlade is trying to give up Bogi at a bargain basement price.

Logic would tell you, that if he's over valuing Dedmon, he would certainly put a very high price tag on Bogdanovic, which would be more than Kuzma. Which in turn tells me, that the entire thing was started by the Lakers. The entire situation with Bogi had to do with his current contract, and there was only so much Vlade could offer him under the rules. He offered, and Bogi refused, and both sides knew that's what would happen.

If your part of the national sports media, and watching from your comfortable office in NY, you look at the situation and see that trading Bogi looks like a very viable option for the Kings rather than risk losing him in the off season. But that doesn't mean that the Kings and Bogi's agent haven't had discussions about working out a deal. I don't know, and you don't know. Personally, if I was going to trade someone, it would be Buddy. I don't think he's a winner, but that's just me.

Has Vlade made some mistakes? You bet, and firing the most successful coach we've had since Adelman is probably one of them. Right now, passing on Doncic looks like another, but the jury is still out long term. Remember, it was Vlade that had Bogdanovic included in the trade that brought him here. Yes, he traded Cousins, but to keep him we would have had to give him a Max contract, and looking back on it now, trading him was a blessing in disguise. Otherwise we would be saddled with a player on a huge contract who couldn't play. And I say that being a huge Cousins fan.

Am I happy with Walton so far? No, not really! I could go into a boat load of reasons why, but I'll spare you that right now. So at years end, if Walton gets fired, I won't lose any sleep over it. But firing both Vlade and Walton, which could happen, would be a bad idea. That would mean a clean sweep of not only the entire coaching staff, but also almost if not all of the front office staff. We would be right back to being the laughing stock of the NBA. It would be better to get Vlade to agree to become just the president of basketball operations, and then hire a GM to work under him. That way you retain some stability.

I don't blame you for being upset, but you do have to take all the injuries into consideration. Everyone is touting how well the Grizz are doing, but I wonder how well they would be doing if Morant and Jackson had been injured for a large part of the season.
 
Logic would tell you, that if he's over valuing Dedmon, he would certainly put a very high price tag on Bogdanovic, which would be more than Kuzma. Which in turn tells me, that the entire thing was started by the Lakers. The entire situation with Bogi had to do with his current contract, and there was only so much Vlade could offer him under the rules. He offered, and Bogi refused, and both sides knew that's what would happen.
IMHO, the Bogi situation is the one that needs to be resolved before the trade deadline.

Vlade needs to decide if he is willing to commit $15-18 mil a year to Bogi this off season or he's going to see him walk for nothing. If he is not willing to sign Bogi to a $15-18 mil/yr, Vlade needs to decide that before the trade deadline, because that is what Bogi will most likely be looking for in his 2nd contract, if he turned down Vlade's $13 mil/year offer.

Seeing that Bogi has more mileage on his knees than most 27 year old players, because he refuses to sit out Euro summer ball, I would lean towards moving him now and get something of value in return. I actually like Kuzma for the Kings, being a young Stretch 4 or a big small forward. When Kuzma played for Luke, he looked like he could become a real star.

The point would be to obtain salary controlled options (players on rookie deals or picks) this trade deadline and accumulate some young assets (players or picks) for our vets (i.e. Bogi, Dedmon, Ariza, Barnes) in trades.
 
The season was lost before it began, Ariza/CoJo/Dedmon/Buddy/Barnes signed up to ridiculous money, you simply cannot recover from that unless some disgruntled superstar wants out from another team but even than you give up Bagley/1st or /Buddy at the minimum to get them.

Again the excuse wait till the team is healthy i would mean we would have far fewer wins right now since the team played better injured in a tougher part of the schedule. Our superstars came back at the easiest part of this year and we got smashed by crap teams.

Vlade is worse than PDA this offseason.
 
The season was lost before it began, Ariza/CoJo/Dedmon/Buddy/Barnes signed up to ridiculous money, you simply cannot recover from that unless some disgruntled superstar wants out from another team but even than you give up Bagley/1st or /Buddy at the minimum to get them.

Again the excuse wait till the team is healthy i would mean we would have far fewer wins right now since the team played better injured in a tougher part of the schedule. Our superstars came back at the easiest part of this year and we got smashed by crap teams.

Vlade is worse than PDA this offseason.
Vlade is worse than PDA period. Let that sink in.
 
The owners paid Joerger $4M to not coach the Kings this year. If they fired Walton today, they'd be paying him about $14M to not coach the Kings too, which seems like it would be really unpopular with said investors. Does anybody know what guarantees in GM contracts are usually like?

Overall I'm open to change, but not sure if it would help, and don't expect it to happen any time soon.
 
The Dedmon situation is what really screams poor understanding of their own personnel. Holmes is hurt, and Dedmon is still barely getting off the bench. If they were winning games then so what, but it's weird that the Kings already had belly, Bagley, and Giles and seemed to target Dedmon specifically after Horford and there is really no role for him. Why sign him? Eerily similar to the Hill signing.
 
I just read somewhere else Vlade rejected 2 2nd round pick + expiring for Dedmon to go back to the Hawks, does anyone know if this is true? It came from Sam Amick.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
I just read somewhere else Vlade rejected 2 2nd round pick + expiring for Dedmon to go back to the Hawks, does anyone know if this is true? It came from Sam Amick.
What would be good to know isn't that it came from Amick, but where Amick got it. There are gonna be a bazillion rumors floating around between now and the trade deadline. Some might be true, but the vast majority will be plants by agents, teams, even low-level employees who think it's fun to try and get legs on some rumor they float...

If it is true, I can understand Vlade saying no. With Holmes out, Bagley still not fully cleared to play, and Caleb not really big league worthy, Dedmon is about the only other big besides Giles to put into a game when needed.
 
The Dedmon situation is what really screams poor understanding of their own personnel. Holmes is hurt, and Dedmon is still barely getting off the bench. If they were winning games then so what, but it's weird that the Kings already had belly, Bagley, and Giles and seemed to target Dedmon specifically after Horford and there is really no role for him. Why sign him? Eerily similar to the Hill signing.
This board was full of let's sign Dedmon all during the season last year. He is a guy that many identified as a good fit and it didn't work out for whatever reason. Dedmon should be exhibit A on why we don't crowdsource personnel moves.
 
This board was full of let's sign Dedmon all during the season last year. He is a guy that many identified as a good fit and it didn't work out for whatever reason. Dedmon should be exhibit A on why we don't crowdsource personnel moves.
The Kings committed to him and then after 10 games were totally out on him. That has nothing to do with crowd sourcing, but a rather odd aboutface by the Kings after commiting over 26 million to a player.
 
Vlade is worse than PDA period. Let that sink in.
Because you said so? PDA fired Malone who has become a top coach in the league and was able control dmc. He also traded Isaiah Thomas for scraps before he became an all star. Also drafting Ben McLemore and nik Stauskas isn’t that much better than what Vlade did. You can hate Vlade all you want but he’s no where as bad as PDA
 
Because you said so? PDA fired Malone who has become a top coach in the league and was able control dmc. He also traded Isaiah Thomas for scraps before he became an all star. Also drafting Ben McLemore and nik Stauskas isn’t that much better than what Vlade did. You can hate Vlade all you want but he’s no where as bad as PDA
Doncic>>>>>>>>DMC/IT/Malone
 
Doncic>>>>>>>>DMC/IT/Malone
It hasn’t even been a full 2 seasons. Doncic hasn’t even taken Dallas to the playoffs. Malone has for Denver and IT has for Boston. No one knows for sure what the future brings. Tyreke was a rookie of the year and steph almost didn’t get an extension with the warriors. I wouldn’t speak in absolutes. But I guess you are the king of hot takes around here :rolleyes:
 
It hasn’t even been a full 2 seasons. Doncic hasn’t even taken Dallas to the playoffs. Malone has for Denver and IT has for Boston. No one knows for sure what the future brings. Tyreke was a rookie of the year and steph almost didn’t get an extension with the warriors. I wouldn’t speak in absolutes. But I guess you are the king of hot takes around here :rolleyes:
Jokic has for Denver not Malone, Malone inherited a beast youngish team hitting their stride with elite GM's who have made insanely good picks and trades.